Metalcore vs Death Metal: A Tale of Two Different Concerts. 

I think when you look at core bands a lot of there fashion is just casual because that type of music originates in the hardcore punk world where there isn’t exactly a rockstar attitude and the casual look just represents that philosophy

I once saw a guy wearing full medieval armour at a tyr show

Generally I think that most death metal bands look pretty much like their audience. Septic Flesh is an outlier, as is a band like Behemoth, who started in the black metal world. If you saw the guys from Cannibal Corpse, Carcass, Obituary, Napalm Death, Cattle Decapitation, Rivers Of Nihil, etc just walking about in their stage clothes, you would think they look like everyone else.

Vinnie Paul from Pantera said "These magic clothes don't play music; we do. Let's just go out there and be comfortable, jeans, t-shirt, whatever, and see where it goes." Things changed in the 90's with the advent of Nu Metal, Groove Metal and Grunge. Suddenly, all the cool theatrics, from KISS to Motley Crue stopped being "cool" and seen as "silly". People wanted their artists to be "relatable", like Nirvana, Limp Bizkit, Korn, Pearl Jam, Pantera, etc. I think that had a big impact overall. I agree that music is the most important thing - you can have the coolest corpse paint and tons of decapitated pig heads on stage but if your music sucks, it simply doesn't matter. But I get why you feel the disconnect - a concert is a show. You want to be entertained, both audibly and visually. I think the music part is obviously the most important one but a good show with style and theatrics are the cherry on top. It's not totally gone - Slipknot has been doing very well and newer artists like Sleep Token and Ghost are following that trend. But even they get criticized for it - do their fans like them because of the music or the theatrics? Would their music hold without the theatrics? It's a tough question to answer and it will be mostly subjective to each person's taste.

Couldn't care less what a band looks like on stage only about what is coming out of the PA system. Thank you, Jon. 💯

While I do prefer my Metal more on the casual side, I also love it to be unmsitakeably Metal. Core guys often seem to be offended, if they're not considered part of the Metal family, yet they seem to be ashamed of almost everything that defines Metal culture.

I prefer when the live shows are something more than a record rehearsal so I like when it's done as a concept, when the music and the visual creates an atmosphere that can be ound only at the live show.

Happen to enjoy both Metalcore and Death Metal but if I had too choose which subgenre is better I would definitely say Death Metal because I think Death Metal is King fucking love Death Metal .

Although I don’t care about the actual aesthetics, I really appreciate the death metal bands/fans passion for this art form we call metal. There’s an extra sense of reverence for it.

I love an evil image. Its FUN. a lot of people seem to hate fun. I'll listen to any band if I like the music regardless but good image is that cherry on top that just really pulls everything together.

It's a whole package i'd say. The clothes, art and scenery is almost as important as the music in my opinion! Jeans and baseballcap on a metal-concert is for the audience, the bandmembers has to wear clothes that fits their music i think 🎼

Septicflesh is my all-time favorite band. Have been for over 10 years when I found them in high school. Gonna catch them for the first time in years on the 4th in Pittsburgh.

2:55 I was blasting Portrait of a Headless Man earlier today. So powerful. The Septic Flesh vocalist has the best growl in death metal. Yep, I said it and I meant it goddammit!

I only got into metal in my 20s e.g around 2007/8 ish. And around that time I of course assumed to be metal I needed to dress black AF and look the look, leather bracelets and big buckle belts as part of my starter metal kit... Somewhere in that time, a friend of mine introduced me to this band which he only wanted to show me because they didn't look the part... and this band was August Burns Red. Thrill Seeker was so damn heavy, yet they really did not look like you average metal head. (We needlessly followed suite and just emulated them in our local copy-cat-core band... but I digress) I assume a lot of the bands in the metal core bands and bands who followed in that subgenre trended in that direction... flip flops on stage, average joe clothing. To me at the time it really signaled that their focus was on the music more than anything... but perhaps in hindsight it was just clever marketing from them to stand out from the norm? Also really interesting take & video,. I only recently discovered your channel, and have been binge watching everything. Keep up the great content :)

I like the video and it was very thought-provoking and I just subscribed bro.

Kataklysm were really good live (saw them like 10 years ago) they were just about a 100 people at that concert roughly, but they still played for like a 10,000 festival, lots of energy and they were already a big name band. And when it comes to clothes I'm really used to metal vest and band logos everywhere. I love the behemoth kinda look bands, image matter.

No offense to ERRA or Currents etc… They sound more like heavier versions of Linkin Park instead of metalcore.

I want to see a movie where keanu reeves plays this dude.

As an outsider to all these genres, who greatly appreciates these “subcultures” , the music overall isn’t going to be capable of further evolution, not a bad thing, it becomes a matter of perspective about appearance and how it’s valued,. Low key symbolism is just as relevant as high order theatrics . Because they are both legit references to the actual human dynamics that these bands draw from. So to me it’s more how do you “keep it real” without just keeping it stagnant….its a gauntlet unto itself…. as it should be….comfort is not a luxury acknowledged by entropy….

I went to Decapitated concert in Minneapolis at the Green Room MPLS. All bands played good ,SepticFlesh is my favorites band so is Kataklysm 🤘🖤

As you mentioned, at both shows a good portion of bands were wearing just black teas w/no designs. The whole plain black t shirt trend is something that plauges all genres of Metal right now (and I hate it!). Like, it doesn't need to always be spikes, leather and corpse paint but at least look like you play extreme music (band shirts at the least, please!).

Interesting. Every metalcore show I've ever seen has a ton of people in band shirts.

I wouldn’t say the image needs to match the music, but I do think it can be off-putting when the image *really* doesn’t match the image. Ghost looks like they should be playing doom metal, but in reality, they sound like an 80’s rock band, which I’ve always found confusing. I also think a band’s attire is related to their accessibility. No one will try to argue that Decapitated is “accessible” music, but metalcore as a whole is something that can be. Maybe accessible music is related to accessible clothing.

I haven't really been to black metal shows, but I will say, at least here in the midwest, the death metal and tech-death shows I've been to tend to actually have far more "normal" looking people than many of the metalcore shows I've been to. I saw Beyond Creation and Ne Obliviscaris in Nebraska last November and several years ago I saw Obscura with Beyond Creation and Archspire in KC, and aside from a lot of people with long hair and a few battle vests here and there, most people had regular street clothes. A lot of them seemed more my age too (early to mid 30s). Now when I saw Crosses (Chino from Deftones' side project), there was a lot of that goth/fishnets style going on for sure. As for me, I have no tattoos, short hair, and the only thing that ever gives away what music I listen to is that I often wear band t-shirts.

The Universe. I had been wondering how it was that I had not grabbed this episode yet, and was even feelin' guilty about it. Now it makes sense. I just went to a Metalcore show, last night, Imminence was the headliner. The reality that I picked up on (after the 2 openers) is that plain clothes +1 is far more appealing to the general masses. Metal core is Pop Metal. I loved Imminence, but my attraction is because they are mixing in some high philosophy with their lyrics and the heavy is as honest and real as any death metal band. Then you throw in the violin? INT +2. I'm rambling... Not a Metalcore fan, give me some blackened thrash stoner doom deathcore vibes and style anyday. Hot Topic is still > Abercrombie & Fitch.

On a different note, the new Rivers of Nihil track, Criminal, has released, with their new lineup.

Say what you will about metalcore visuals, but Loathe has the best drip in the game right now.

I mean if they have a metal band cap like a cannibal corpse, deicide or even gatecreeper cap I'm all for it on stage

Image sells music and "no image" is still an image, just a poorly designed one. Humans perceive things with multiple senses so it's impossible for music to be "just about the music". Personally, I've been around the music industry for so long that I have very little interest in watching dudes who look like they just got off shift at the gas station play instruments. Been there, done that. To each their own though. Also, these photos look great! Do you have your camera gear listed anywhere?

it's funny that you mentioned New Balance shoes, because I went to a Boundaries and Spite concert and the lead singer of Spite was wearing like a plain black jumper and white New Balance shoes which totally struck out to me. I'm not throwing any shade, I don't know anything about fashion but, I thought that's weird somehow. Like it made the whole outfit and music unserious to me personally, I'm also not judging though. Like it's a cool style in general, but I would also expect something different for a concert.

Missed that show, but I’m always at the masquerade

Are you gonna see Necrot in Atl this summer? I cant wait!

European metal is also different than American Metal. European bands are more in the "metal" aesthetic, in general, I think the audience is more like that too but I've never gone to a metal show in Europe. I don't have any attachment to anyone dressing any way and listening or playing metal. It's all about the music, and of course the artwork that goes with it.

I always performed in all orange because I wanted to stand out in a sea of black. But from a philosophical point, is Clark Kent cosplaying as Superman, or is Superman cosplaying as Clark Kent?

I don't mind either way if bands are all dressed up and have an image or if they just dress up as your average joe. I think for me many times it will come down to if they are a conceptional band or not. Take for instance my favorite band, Kanonenfieber, they are a ww1 themed band and are all dressed up as anonymous soldiers and their faces are always covered. This works for the image and aesthetic of the themes they sing about and probably to give honor to all the anonymous soldiers were perished in that war. Taking a full 180 here, if you look at Alestorm, they still sing mostly about pirate stuff after like 7 albums I think they are on now, but at least from the two or three times I have seen them on tour, they no longer dress up as pirates but rather dress casually. More or less I think they could be considered a goofy band, not a straight pirate band. I mean I get it, the whole pirate aesthetic can get old after a while, but it's just a little off to me that they sing about pirate stuff but don't look the part. I never saw them live when they dressed like that, so the first time I saw them in concert and they were dressed casually it threw me off at first. Hopefully this comment makes sense and it's not just me rambling about bands I love lol but I guess my point is that there is a time and place for band image and aesthetics

Good insights but sometimes we can over think stuff in the metal community. Anvil OG band as an answers it called metal on metal play it loud!

Metalcore shares a common ancestry with hardcore, which emphasizes commonality with the audience, and dispenses with theatrics in favor of energy. Think Black Flag with Henry Rollins just wearing running shorts taunting the audience. Metal has always been a bit different, though, where the band at least looks like part of the scene they're in, so they'll wear band shirts and possibly some accoutrements to project the visual aspect of what they're playing, and fans will dress likewise to show their loyalty (women, if they were present at extreme metal shows at all, used to dress like the male fans; the Morticia Adams thing is rather new).

Echoing others but still gotta say: clothing and costumes can help to frame the vibe of the show, maybe even enhance it. But it can’t take the place of good riffs, good tunes. Case in point, I love the theatricality of Kiss, but I almost completely hate their discography. Just ain’t my cup of tea. Obviously everyone’s mileage will vary. We do call it a “performance” though, so I think some degree of theatricality is implied. Like, even if you’re playing the song looking like you just sat up off the sofa, that’s potentially gonna frame how others hear the tune. And if you wanna communicate sincerity, maybe that will help. Or maybe people will think you’re just lazy or unserious. I dunno. But then you can also slip down the philosophical/sociological rabbit hole of our day to day performance. Why we chose to present ourselves the way we do, and what we consciously and unconsciously communicate by doing so. Righteous video, glad you got to take those concert photos 🤘🏻

Image always matter! And a live show should be a hole concept piece of art.

The theatrics of black (and some death) metal were an acquired taste for me. If I'm just listening to the studio albums, I definitely don't care too much about what the bands look like. If we're talking about day-to-day clothes, there are pros and cons to metal fashion; on one hand, I do want to represent the culture but on the other hand, it sucks to be stereotyped as an "angry satanist" even before you get a chance to talk to people.

Did you listen to the new Fleshgod Apocalypse song "Bloodclock" ?

Shorts and t shirts are good enough I don't think I have any band shirts at all

Hey, I have a question about philosophy, Behemoth on of the fire and the void, “I hold the torch or Heroclidus? So I can shade the earth and move the sun.” I know this is a philosopher but idk much about this.

Public Enemy Concert Ala?!

1349 at Boggs May 26th

I remember a lot of people were making fun of Tomb Mold a few months back because they didn't look metal enough. There's a lot of gate keeping out there. Despite me giving Tomb Mold's newest record a solid review, I can agree that they do look like a bunch of hipsters.

I want a show. that includes costumes.

the dude with stay queer as fuck on his guitar is based af

The way they look defiantly adds I think but metalcore is the new generations metal black metal deathmetal is kinda for use older people who grew up with it you know it does not get the publicity it should never has where metalcore deathcore is like numetal was in the 90s it's making metal popular

So first off, Image defiantly isn't more important than the music. Okay my favorite live band is Cannibal Corpse and while there is some kind of aesthetic, they kind of just seem like metalheads on stage. I wouldn't call it stage clothes or something. The music is just so good that it dominates anything else you may ask for. However, another one of my favorite bands is the Washington based Atmospheric Black Metal band Wolves in the Throne Room. They have a very pagan aesthetic with an emphasis on primitive aesthetics combined with old-word mysticism. Anyway, they create an atmosphere and their goal is to put the listener in more of a hypnotic state. And even less surreal bands like behemoth or Tool they use symbolism to convey a particular meaning that influences the music.

I was at the ERRA concert in bham, but at LEAST (probably over) half the girls were goth. You just got unlucky

Just look to Gojira, they look like a cumbia band

Am I allowed a 2nd comment? I've found that the greater the music is, the more that my eyes are closed...

Aesthetics matter to me when it comes to art (and music is art). If a band wanted fans to focus ONLY on the music, they would perform concerts in the dark, behind a veiled curtain. Or, they would never perform live at all. They would shun interviews and never be seen. But then THAT would be their aesthetic. If I'm paying to watch a live performance, I want THEATRE! I want IMAGERY! I want fire, smoke, dramatic lighting, giant props (or tiny sculptures of Stonehenge that are in danger of being stepped on by a dwarf). Wearing a baseball hat on stage is ok for Nashville country singers... not so much for a self-respecting Satan worshipping metal band. Unless the baseball hat is covered in the blood of a goat with the severed head of a country singer dangling from within.

imagine going to a show for the theater and aesthetics of it and not for the music. imagine bands actually dressing modestly so the music can shine and not their gimmicky theatrics like is the case with many shallow no songwriting skills, metal bands. I'm not going to a metal show for the circus aspect of it but to hear stripped down talented musicians showcasing their art.

Call me the old guy that saw a shit load of Metal shows in the last 40 years, but Hell Yeah image is everything because it sets yourself apart from others. The music absolutely comes first but I pay good money for a show 😎🤘🔥🍻

I prefer if they all wore tuxedos

im 40 years old today and enjoyed 600+ concert evenings to this day. i love oldschool thrash- and death metal and also metalcore and hardcore. the main difference between metal concerts to core concert to me is, that the metal fans always try to act stupid and try to look as they are homeless. even if they are doctors or professors. its this false masculinity thing, where they act like apes. if you put enough apes in a crowd, it gets its own dynamic... thats real second hand embarrassment. i never connected to this idiocracy. on core concerts there are idiots too. but its just a little group. and the rest of the guys are just normal guys, as i am. i dont care about identifying with a specific group with clothing and behaviour. i just want to enjoy good music, wether its metal, core or any other music. yes there is other good music too. i enjoy the metalcore bands to concentrate on the music, and not on the image, because both of the music styles dont need to deceive... the most of this bands are incredible musicians. there is no need for this extroverted behaviour. or did you see a classic guy running around like the monopoly guy all day?

Clothes don't play music. If ya wanna have that "kind" of band & dress to fit an "image", by all means...Knock Yourself Out. If Ya Just Wanna Be "regular", that's Fine, Too. Me, If I Were Doing A Summer Tour Or "Metal Cruise", i'd Purposely Wear Beach Attire....Hawaiian Shirts, Board Shorts, Lime Green & teal OCEAN PACIFIC tank-tops..etc. If It Pisses People Off...Makes It Funnier.

So you're a big Septic Fleshfan like me. Imagine them on stage in jeans shorts, sneakers and baseball caps. Wouldn't work for me. Not with that music. There has to be some congruence between style and substance. Could be subtle, wouldn't mind about that. But indeed...there's no excuse for baseball caps.

Everything is Butcher AarruugghhhhhAaaa!!

Well, if we're actually talking about Metalcore (not just bands from the '00s which feature watered down, "commercially friendly melodic death metal"), then the philosophy stems from Hardcore Punk. Metalcore, by true definition, is Hardcore Punk featuring metal riffs. Hardcore bands often despised the idea of a spectacle. There's also Finn's point. I find Finn to be ridiculously insufferable when he gives opinions on metal, but he is correct on this one. The Djent movement did ruin the idea of putting on the spectacular and entertaining for fans. I think image DOES matter. Think about Johnny Cash. (I am purposely choosing an example far from heavy music.) He was known as "the man in black". Mr. Cash created an image of himself, by wearing a nice black shirt and black slacks. He didn't just look like a guy who walked out of working a shift at Burger King or who came from a frat party. He looked slick, dignified, and maybe even intimidating. I do think many bands, especially black metal bands, way overdo it. They're so focused on acting irreverent that you're almost like, "HUH, DID THEY JUST CAST A SPELL?". Obviously, for those bands, the "evil look" is part of the image. But I think, when a band looks like a set of Harry Potter villains, they've gone too far. I think the "WE'RE MOCKING PEOPLE WHO SAY WE ARE SATANISTS, BY LOOKING LIKE WHAT THEY THINK SATANISTS LOOK LIKE" thing is overdone. AC/DC started that in the '70s, guys. Finally, I think occultist bands are in the same vein as Nazi bands; metal doesn’t need occultist bands any more than we need bands who thought Adolf was correct. Bands may obviously believe whatever they wish and their lyrics and image may reflect that. However, I don't think we need occultism in metal or society in general. Note that I am not referring to bands which are putting on a Gothic style spectacle, such as when Ozzy used to have old, weird candles or wear a weird outfit that feels like it came from Lord of the Rings. That stuff is fine. I am saying that we don't need bands with actual occult symbolism and occult philosophy in metal or society as a whole.

I personally can’t stand djent or djent-core and I don’t really like their style either. I like my bands to be metal and look the part. Just personal taste I guess. It all just feels very..beige.

But you have a baseball hat behind you lol. I feel like baseball hats fit metal bands with grindcore, slam or hardcore elements in their music

So you are saying extreme metal concerts and comic con are basically the same thing. It's funny thinking that cause I totally picture this person that loves going to these shows dissing comic con nerds while they are exactly as nerdy. ^^

When you're going after to fit in the dancing club to meet up friends or girls like fashionable, haha o I don't like metal and you say you like country pop with the other impressing the date ahhaa

That's just how it is. Each music scene has its own distinctive style. At death metal shows, you'll see long-haired guys wearing black band shirts and battle vests. In contrast, at hardcore shows, you'll find regular-looking guys in beanies or baseball caps. The hardcore scene tends to embrace a more straightforward, unpretentious look. Criticizing hardcore fans for not wearing band shirts is as absurd as critiquing death metal fans for not donning baseball caps. 6:45 Why is this so difficult to grasp? And what's your issue with baseball caps anyway? It's just a style choice. Wearing a battle vest or sporting corpse paint is equally a style choice. I could easily poke fun at corpse paint all day but it would be too easy. Meanwhile, you're mocking guys for their choice of headgear. Do you really expect members of bands like Novelists and Erra to wear bullet belts, spiked wristbands, and corpse paint? That would be completely inauthentic. Essentially, in this video you’re just complaining about a fashion style you don't like. People should be free to wear whatever they want. Following a strict dress code is the least "metal" thing imaginable. If someone showed up in a pink tutu, a rainbow afro wig, fishing waders, and a G-string, I’d probably laugh but it wouldn’t annoy or irritate me. In the end it's about personal expression, not adhering to some arbitrary dress code.

Its only metal if the song means something and or makes you bang your head. Else, its poser metal. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Rt4bxNwFSkE.htmlsi=ErolzCxhSIEY8jwC

People still go to church?

Metalcore isn’t metal. Metalcore isn't hardcore. It is its own genre.

hot take: people who ONLY like metalcore are normies who actually don't really like metal. metalcore = boygroup metal

Voide of vision had zero metal in there music

Bob Dylan is metal. Don’t believe me, listen to hard rain, better than 99% of metal made since 1990.

is that your natural voice? it seems forced