Tom Vasel and Sam Healey take a look at Runewars from Fantasy Flight Games 00:00 - Introduction 02:10 - Game overview 13:09 - Final thoughts Buy great games at www.gamenerdz.com/ Find more reviews and videos at www.dicetower.com
The first edition of this game has 3D, raised mountains. Heroes, originally, had no effect on army battles whatsoever. They were their own thing. Interfering with battles came with the expansion and revised edition. The first edition of the game has nice thick cardboard spinner dials, the same quality as BSG or Chaos in the Old World. Setup, in my opinion, is done very well in this game, as it's incorporated as part of the game. Placement of terrain matters, as does placement of your home tile.
Aha! I *thought* I'd heard one of the seven seals breaking! For it was written that one of the sure signs of the apocalypse is a Dice Tower review of Runewars.
Hi Tom and Sam, I've purchased this game some months ago without having your precious feedback on it. But my take on it is a bit different. Since the goal of the game is to get Runes, heroes really feel like the stealth force that can pass enemy lines and change the outcome. They're not meant to really help a lot in battle but they're a game changer. Battles, fate cards and seasons are all meant to be taken seriously : this is a game where you HAVE to plan ahead of time. This is as simple as a war game can get, yet allows you to somehow already know the outcome of an upcoming battle. Which is (in my book) real strategy (in a Sun Tzu kind of way) but may be less exciting since it favors the foreseeing players. Therefore the game changing heroes I guess, which you should keep an eye on and can shake an opponent's well prepared strategy. My only complaint would be that the game duration is not appropriate. It is too short for the kind of strategy it asks for. But this can be changed with house rules.
You are spot on with your overview of the game. I don't think these guys really played with any Runewars veterans, but I could be wrong. I think different scenarios would help. Could even make it a co-op sometimes.....
I can only underline what you say. Probably the depth of strategy this game comes with was too much for Tom to understand before judging it. This game is a strategic masterpiece and should not be compared with dice rolling miniature slaughtering.
Also, hearing you comment about the fate deck: You could very well use dice. Haven't really tried it but it seem to me you could easily use the BattleLore dice. Although and d8 would be better and d10 perfect I think. It is even written in the rule book triangles bases have 50% (or something) miss with the other spread out. It would quite easy to say 1-5 miss 6 special 7-8 rout 9-10 dmg for triangle. I might just try that. Also I think there was this guide at BGG with all the cards and their icons so it would be quite easy to set the dice.
My understanding is that the expansion greatly improves this game, especially when it comes to the balance of the different races (something this video didn't really touch on). I've played this game about three or four times, and the red demon guys just feel very weak compared to the other three races. My understanding is that the expansion gives the red demon guys some extra units that help them out a lot.
Tom and Sam had interesting reactions to the fate deck. I've never played this game and I'm not sure if I would like the fate decks either, but I LOVE the Duel of Ages 2 challenge decks. They serve a similar role in that they handle multiple situations and mechanics. Perhaps what sets the DoA2 cards apart is that instead of simulating a single die roll they each simulate a challenge that involves two rolls and three calculations, so they really do speed up play.
You MUST like the battle system to enjoy this game since battle is a big part of it. I like the battle system. I enjoy the different abilities of the units and the card-drawing is quite tense for us since we are sometimes vying for special tiles. I enjoy being able to exploit a units special abilities through some good draws, or surprising the enemy with the same. Knowing your factions strengths and weaknesses is markedly useful in this game as well. If everyone is just focused on just 'building for battle', then it could feel samey...but there are strategies and battle is merely one means to an end not the goal. It can be easy to lose sight of collecting runes as the goal rather than preparing to take on the enemy. In my games, my units contribute more to gaining runes than the heroes. We find some of the heroes add flavor to the factions through their abilities as well. Not all the heroes abilities are geared just towards other heroes. We play this mostly 2-player because it can be long. But as a 2-player it is quite reasonable. I really enjoy this game, and I don't foresee that will ever change. But, like any other game, it is not for everyone. Glad to see you were able to play it though. Thank you for the taking the time to learn the rules and sit down to this, one of my favorite games. Two thumbs up for Miami Dice!
I'm not really suprised, I felt the same way about it, especially the Fate deck being anticlimatic. Also, the battle system has the rule that you can bring any number of units to attack, but the defender can only have 8 units (the max number of units normally in a hex). In our games that led to long wars on one hex changing owner almost every other round. Heroes can change the outcome though if you have more of them and you manage to get a Dragonrune with quesing - that can also decide the match and that is awesome. (Especially when other players figure out that you have it and then heroes start to fight for it.)
I've been sort of pissed off that the Dice Tower hadn't done a review for this game, which I own. Now, I can't be pissed off about it anymore! My only quibble with your review was the combat mechanic. Personally, I really enjoyed that a lot. Otherwise, this is a great review.
Awesome game. I like the fate deck, it's just a different way to play combats. The first game is always a learning experience but after that, you can prepare for everything the game throws at you.
I am one of those people that really love it. If I have 3 to 4 players then I'd play Runewars before considering twilight imperium as it fits that number of players better and I really like the unique factions as well as the seasons. Though the fate cards, heroes and battles generally are a little clunky; I'd love to see a second edition that fixes a number of issues with the game.
After 2 plays we decided to just remove the heroes from the game. You can do whatever for summer phase, like split Autumn card - get tactic card in summer and fame in autumn or just repeat autumn or get a free unit or whatever you want.
A fair review based on your opinions. I agree with your last point - there are people who will love this game. My guess is that some of these people have played TI3 too many times and are looking for something a little different. lol.
the cards give you lots more control and hence more decisions in battle hence you feel like you made each victory happen whereas dice just do what it does and you just sit there and bend to its will
I probably like this game more than Tom and Sam, but I have to agree about the heroes. They do feel very disconnected. They can go questing for items, but usually the things they find help the hero, and not your army. In fact, my general experience with the heroes is that they spend the whole game just making themselves stronger, and then they abandon your team.
the heroes are supposed to be more like Frodo going to Mordor while there are battles going on, target than super units. so yes, they are disconnected for the army, but not from the game
zeroisnine It took a while for me to realize that heroes do provide a valid victory path and can - especially with the expansion incorporated - provide additional threats. Your Frodo-like example is what it describes best!
Better with the expansion, as to many FF games out there (maybe not TI4 prophecy of kings though). Fate deck is like dices, but your heroes can counter or boost some cards effects. Good mechanism. The tactical aspect with water frontier becoming crossable during winter wasnt mentioned, but is great. During one of my games, the border city standing between two kingdoms had a rune, and was overflooded (banners of war expansion), meaning that no invasion was possible except during winter! Very fun. Yeah I had problems with battles on one aspect : rushing with an unbalanced army (tons of big monsters from demons) against low cost archers/footmen didnt go well, because of the initiative mechanism. The big demons were destroyed without even killing 2 ennemy units… cards and bad thinking were responsible i guess, but you got what i meant… fantastic game overall, makes my kids plan strategy and anticipate like chess or go, with fantasy lotr aspect as a bonus. Couple of new factions for expansion would also have been great 😢 (dwarves and orcs/gobelins ?)
If the used dice instead of the fate deck they would have needed 4 different sets of dice. 1 for each unit class (triangle, square, ect) because each class had different probabilities for certain outcomes.
Wow look at all these comments in such a short amount of time. I had no idea this game was so loved. Some of these comments are quite emotional. Not the kind of game for me, but thanks for the review anyhow.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this game is based on Battemist, is it not? In that game, the heroes had a similar role, and they just did not mesh well with the rest of the game. They were doing their own thing, running around doing quests, while the armies were doing the "fun stuff". It sounds like they fixed some of the issues Battlemist had, but not all of them.
I think the only thing that is really wrong with his game is the battle system. I do not like the fate deck, and I don't like the idea that you can stack the deck. I feel like rolling dice and playing cards to your vantage should be how battles go, but then, that may be from years of playing TI 3. With that, I don't use the fate deck. I've downloaded some modules for playing the game with 12 sided die or 20 sided die. I mostly use the D 12, as I think it is more forgiving, and I think the game needs that, but I can see how playing with the 20 could work, as it more closely mirrors the probability of the fate deck. All of this is to say, that's the beauty about Boardgames is that they tend to have a dedicated community who have thought through the questions that we often gripe about. Even with TI 3, the online expansions andbalance suggestions make for a far superior game then the one fantasy fight put out. When buying a boardgame, we should not feel as though we have to play it the way it is presented. We should feel free to tweak it, and make them fit our experience.
Hmm. I am a bit puzzled that they didn't like the combat system. Is quite similar to the one from Nexus Ops which is loved by them. I do agree about the heroes, they're clunky.
I love this game. I would definitely go for a sci-fi retheme where heroes are purely used in combat and have different specialised dice instead of the fate deck. I think these changes would allow for the game to flow quicker which would allow the player count to be upped to 6. This would then be a sweet spot that gets to hit the table more than Twilight Imperium.
+C.L. Ng I own Battlelore. I want a game for solo play some kind of adventure game like Runewars or Mage Knight. There is other better game with nice story for solo play?
Been waiting, literally, for years for this review! Saw the components in the dice tower breakfast, so I got really excited :-) anyway, played this game(1st ed.) once and it took us like 16 hours or so to learn and play one game (with max players). I totally loved it(like all coreys games), but still hesitant to buy the game. Maybe because it s too much of a game. Gonna watch the review now and see if I can make up my mind... :-)
Honestly, if you know someone who owns it, you probably don't need to buy it (much like TI3).... because if you're going to play it, you're probably playing it with them.
yes Dave Morus , i guess you're right. Being such a long game, it's usually hard to find the right people at the right time to commit to such a game. I also felt that the heroes played a smaller role than you'd expect. I think Tom has some good points on the less positive things of the game. Would be cool if Final Fantasy would come up with a more streamlined version, which still would be epic warlike, but shorter. Runewars re-revised ed.? :P
As a staunch eurogamer I don't really understand theme. Both Tom and Sam didn't like the fate cards and I feel there is some connection between strong themes and rolling dice; there is certainly at least correlation. What's so thematic about rolling dice? Or is it randomness itself somehow thematic?
Something about card draws isn't terribly exciting -- a deck seems to have "set" chances even when it doesn't. Die rolls suggest a lot of risk despite the fact that the probabilities are pretty even between rolls and draws, so that makes for tense moments. There's a segment on the Dice Tower podcast about stand-up die rolls vs. card draws. Psychologically, there's a difference.
I really don't understand why dice seem to be a "necessity" in conflict games. Why is it more exciting to roll a die and see what happens than to have a hand of cards and try to out think your opponent?
I have more card battles than dice battles to tell you the truth. This situation is more like card-counting ; which means you have more control over understanding the likelihood of your victory. Dice is always random (sometimes mitigated risk however, with additional dice). 2 different forms of hedging risk.
John Corley Sean Weeks I understand that dice are in a way more random than a deck of cards and there is psychological difference. But why it is more thematic?
Domin S I don't have a good answer, but I think dice represent how life and battle can be somewhat unpredictable? I don't know. I was totally cool with fate, or tarot type cards in this game.
I really do agree with everything said. I would rather have dice, heroes are not as cool as I would like questing a little clunky, but the heroes are improved in the expiation. with all that said this is still my go to fantasy epic in a box, for more than 2 players. I really cant thing of a epic fantasy game that can knock this game off my self so I also agree with the last statement if you want a epic fantasy game for more that 2 players pick this game up! if you want an epic 2 player fantasy game, well just pick up war of the ring.
Kinda sad you guys didn't like this one more. Especially after waiting so long to see a review for it. I feel like maybe this game was overhyped to you guys. Like everyone saying how great some movie is then you finally get to see it. And it is good, you should like it more but it has been so built up in your mind that it can't possibly live up to what you were expecting.
I bet they didn't play with anyone who really knew the game. At least they didn't play with Banners of War. I think you are right that it was too hyped up for them. I could see Sam eventually really getting into it.
There are a lot of things I like in this game, but I absolutely hate the fate deck in combat. Every time I start out playing this game excited, but at some point in the middle I start to feel like I'm just fighting that stupid deck. If we played this game with a rules hack to use dice instead of the Fate deck for combat, I'd love to play this game a lot more, especially as it works fairly well for 3 players, which is our most common gaming group size these days.
Fate cards are so much better then dice. Dice are just pure luck. With the fate deck you can look at the cards that are on the discard pile too get a better idea about your chances.It's more interesting and more tactical. Really don't get what draws people to dice so much...
Runewars is a rare case of a epic mediocrity. Runewars might be the most overrated game in history. For some reason, people like this game. There are so many other games that outclass this mess. The movement alone is terrible. The leveling up process is just adding numbers to base stats. I gladly sold this rubbish years ago. I couldnt even say it was a good game in the sell description I used. Get Mage knight instead. Mage Knight owns this game. Owns it.
glencannondr Mage Knight and Runewars are not even the same type of game. Runewars is territory control game and Mage Knight is an adventure game. The only thing they have in common is that they are Fantasy. Maybe you are thinking of Runebound.
