That review seemed pretty fair, the negatives by and large were taste based with theme and the positives with gameplay, I can fully understand that position.
crimson sun you can’t gloss over the play negatives however. For example clunky rules that could have done with some streamlining and no easy way to track all the pluses to stats you get from the likes of equipment. That’s not taste or theme based.
@@cthulwho8197 I actually think it's more streamlined than the rules appear, it looks clunky but plays smooth. I agree regarding info on characters but how hard would it be to put together a character sheet?
crimson sun Sure, just pointing out that’s it’s not a simple case of the game being flawless unless you have issues with the theme. Clearly there are in fact issues throughout all aspects of the game, even if on balance it comes out positive. 😁
@@cthulwho8197 I haven't played the game yet as it's not arrived yet. But I HAVE read the rules cover to cover online... and really the rules aren't that bad. There is a lot of stuff, but you are never using it all at once and a lot of it is common sense imo. If you have played Imperial Assault and/or D&D... you already know all the basic mechanics. Worth what it's worth...
Tom: THANK YOU for including your thoughts on Solo play and info on required character count!! This information is SO helpful for many of us who can't/don't have a committed group to play through campaigns!! 😊😊
One thing that irks me about The Dice Tower reviews is that they never review the solo play unless it's a solo only game like Friday. Thank you Rolling Solo channel! 😎
I would love to see Tom revisit this game with the newest version that just came out and hear his thoughts on the changes and updates compared to the original game.
They re-edited a lot of the story. I'm not sure it it is enough of a change to matter for some people. It did flow a bit more smoothly now. My only real reference to the changes though is listening to the sidi files and following along in the book. You can definitely tell that changes were made here and there in nearly every story section.
No, I doubt they plan to. There is a lot of story that would be to be re-recorded. I know they are planning on fibbing the game the full Foreteller treatment for Act 2 and 3, but as far as I know there are no plans to redo all the existing files from Act 1.
@@Trueflights may I ask how do you like the story? Heard most people think it’s too lengthy, and do you still find the game too fiddly even after the 1.1 treatment?
Absolutely adore the artwork in this game, it was what immediately caught my eye and definately played a large factor in me putting in a late pledge. Hope it offers a good challenge, as that tends to be the thing that makes or breaks a dungeon crawler for me.
Whether you like the art in a game or not, I try not to let it ever deter me because some of the games with the worst art are the best games I've ever played, so I'm glad he didn't pass because he wasn't into the art.
Great review Tom. So much to review in this. Even the negatives are positive points. Can't wait to get this. Always so glad to hear you talk about solo play as well.
Man this review is out quick! I'm almost done with the first chapter of the adventure book, and still not prepared to actually review the game yet. This thing is massive.
@@TheDungeonDive lol rub it in why not, and no I don't know as I don't have it yet, mid march is the latest. :p It's all good I'm not bitter much just want some more content to view until then!
Good review! I'm looking forward to the game arriving, but I'd also like to find out where to get those storage containers Tom uses for the game. He always has great storage solutions.
Overall a good review. The negatives seem to be primarily subjective (minis not as good quality as CMON, art not that good) and I would disagree with most of the negatives in this video.
Kickstarted this nearly 4 years ago. It has been delayed so many times I stopped reading the updates they send out. At least I know now the game actual still exists and isn't a kickstarter failure.
How do you deal with the insane amounts of story between combat scenarios? Do you really sit at the table and read it out loud to the other people? As a non-english guy that's my biggest issue...
We knew this would be a controversial aspect of the game. We have a "Spark Notes" version of the narrative on our website that shortens the scenes down by about 90%.
NICK Van DAM I think the whole genre itself has been worn out with its overdone mechanics. Move, roll/draw hit modifiers, wound tokens, massive setup and teardown, initiative.... fiddlyness. Combat that is slow and unexciting.... Basically imho the novelty of playing against an automatic DM has worn off but none of the dungeon crawler mechanics have changed in 10+ years. No one's innovating anymore. The red viewer for hidden text was cool....Who the heck wants to read that much story though? Good gravy
They have a app with all the story voice acted, also shortened highlights if you dont wont to read or listen to the whole story. There are also plenty of innovative dungeon crawlers now - Gloomhaven, Folklore the affliction, Claustrophobia, Champions of Hara, Mansions of Madness, Fireteam Zero to name a few...
As far as I know, Tom doesn't play descent with the app, which is probably the most comparable experience, so I wouldn't give that statement too much power
@@WarBandit08 Not comparable experiences at all, Descent app turns the game into a single player coop, it actualy is a game itself. Middara's app is simply the story voice acted and read to you to add flavor.
@@DakonBlackblade2 I didn't know Middara had an app, I was talking more in the sense that the Descent app makes it co-op which is more akin to Middara than base Descent.
I just found out about this game... it looks like a game with ALOT OF STUFF to keep track. Each player would have like 10 or 15 smaller cards next to their character sheet?
Managing two characters per player is still hard or not? Asking because I can see that most of our plays would be 2 player, but I would really like to use 4 characters...
The high level of customization of your character is a good thing per se. But I feel like in this game you get to develop your character's skills to a point in which the character is no longer recognizable. The absence of classes could bring to create hybrid characters that do a bit of everything. This doesn't sound cool to me.
But if you make a hybrid that can do a bit of everything, you won't be exceptionally good at anything. It is certainly a tradeoff. If that's not something you want, then don't do it. That's the bait of this setup. You build the character the way you want them to be. In our campaign, Remi is an archer, Zeke is the caster, Rook is a tank/healer, and Nightingale is kind of a jack of all trades.
Great game. I’m a huge fan of Descent (I own it all) and Middara has won me over. I’m playing through the campaign solo. I downloaded the character sheet with all four characters on one page. It’s quite manageable now.
Not sure if you ever edit your videos, but seeing the excessive storyline was one of your "negatives" (and rightfully so), I think it would be worth mentioning that there will be an abridged version of the story narrative available, as well as an audio app with character acting. Regardless... fantastic review as always. Can't wait to get my copy!
Am I the only one that thinks its weird that the main miniature of that demon that is on the cover is also a miniature in Folklore? Like, it is the EXACT same sculpt.
Compared to Descent , this is better? But Descent has a gamemode (its main entry point actually) ! All the newer dungeon crawlers are puzzle mode only (solo - "co-op"). It's so sad that zero of the last 4 years greater productions are going towards exciting competitive stuff.
Between this and Gloomhaven who has all of this time to play these games? And what is the deal with these comments focused on the Seal? Why do people care so much about the Seal given?
Chris Fong 1 - these types of games arent the same as your terraforming mars / scythe / puerto rico etc competitive games. They are for nerds like me who want to play the same narrative, but have the scenarios offer variety over the course of dozens of sessions with my best 1-2 friends. 2 - there are so many games nowadays that the seal is important. Many people wont even consider a game that doesnt get a gold. I agree though with your sentiments. This game is bloated, and the seals arent as important as many people seem to think.
But if you already like the game, or even already have it if you backed the KS for example, why does it matter what seal it gets? Will people judge you for owning a game that didn’t get a seal? Will your other players refuse to play it? Will the shop refuse to sell it? First edition copies won’t even have that seal printed on it?
@@cthulwho8197 Because if it rates poorly, those who backed it can sell it BNIS (brand new in shrinkwrap) when it's delivered and maybe break even. If they open it and play, they'll lose money on the investment. I don't back KS games, but I know this from the trading groups I'm a member of.
I don't think games like this and Gloomhaven are meant for people who play a huge variety of tabletop games. They're clearly targeting players who enjoy going back to the same adventure with different variations on each campaign attempt. After buying Gloomhaven I've already sold off like 4 dungeon crawler games that I know will never be touched again given Gloomhaven's presence on my shelf lol.
This game is obviously going to appeal to some people, but to me all these games in this genre of minis going through a dungeon look exactly the same, and seem to play nearly the same. It's easy to be a bit blinded by 'look at the amount of stuff in this box!', but the gameplay is the same mundane dice chucking seen dozens of times before. I wish BGG would stop the vote stuffing for games like this also; people who haven't received or played the game giving it 10's just because they backed it on kickstarter and gave a quick look through the rules.
While I completely agree so many dungeon crawls are exactly the same. Middara adds story choices during the game, and an insane amount of character customization to set it apart. There are no other JRPGs in a box.
I agree it's ridiculous that people rated it before playing, but Middara does look different in the sense of dice chucking. There looks to be lots of ways for dice manipulation and dice upgrades to off set the flat out luck of dice like Zombicide or something like that. But to your point.... they are still dice and with dice comes a certain amount of luck for sure, which personally I think is fine. Like in real life, you pull of some amazing things you have no business doing, or trip over your own feet walking to the kitchen... that's what makes it fun for most people. And it's also why Middara is better... it's not about winning or losing the scenario... it's about the story. It's closer to D&D in a box. Doesn't really matter how well you do of if you roll great or like crap... it just takes you down a different path and you enjoy the story. Now if storyline isn't your thing... then yes, this game is not for you. That all being said, I have not played it as it's not out at the moment, but I have read the rules cover to cover.
It was three years, and that was development time... because it takes time to make a game. Reprinting a game that already exists takes a lot less time.
And still... Advanced Heroquest ist the best Dungeon Crawl ever made. I am fed up with those Mini Kickstarters. They are soulless in theme and atmosphere...
One can certainly see the similarities in how female characters are displayed as pin-ups and other sexual fantasies. Really a shame. Both games would be soooo much better without all this sexism.
"I'm not really spoiling anything because there is so much". That logic is quite faulty. You have said the same in other reviews. I understand what you mean by that but it's an illogical statement and anyone should see that without requiring an explanation as to why.
My biggest disappointment with First Martians wasn't even that the game was mildly broken, but that the characters really were downers with their attitudes. Yeah, I brought up First Martians in 2019!
RyuSora yeah, you wish:) maybe here and there, and there is no hype, but the geeks who love the game, are playing, they added at last french language recently to the app, etc.
I really appreciate Tom commenting on the apparent objectification of women in games. Makes me want to donate $100 to the Dice Tower every time he comments on it.
It's what I expected from listening to the review. Tom did flag up a fair few reservations and "excellence" is now supposed to mean precisely that. Now having said that I might be inclined to agree with your assessment but in the end it's a bit marginal and there has to be room for the reviewer's opinion otherwise what's the point!
The fact, that you are not required to use your brain for playing, just roll some dice, check some rules and resolve what happened, is probably not automatically a SoE contender for Tom. Although he did gave it to some games, that worked like that.
In his week in review video he stated this was an 8/10 which is now an Approved game, it takes an 8.5 to get the seal of excellence now. They changed it about a year ago to be a little harder to get their approval or excellence rating.
DAE have no interest in games like this? Unending text, cards, tokens, tiles, abilities, referencing and general fiddling around... sure it looks pretty but Who has the time? I applaud the dice tower crew's patience for investing review time into YADC (yet-another-dungeon-crawl)
like yet another worker placement, or like another deck builder, or like another action selection .. there are so many games now the base systems have to be used again and again.
@@gasa5251 there is repetition in all game releases, but I feel like these dungeon crawlers are a different beast. Requiring much more overall time investment than your typical worker-placement/ deck builder/area-control game.
@@cardflopper3307 Agreed, but that's what the fans of the genre want. I want big, grandiose, contiguous stories, world building, immersion..etc..from my crawlers.
9:42 So it has about as non-engaging a story as Folklore: The Affliction. Linear as hell, with occasional minor 'choose a path' which still come to the same story segments after. That is disappointing.
So tired of the same old mechanisms OVER AND OVER in these dungeon crawlers. This is my favorite genre, but for the love of Pete, can we not streamline, innovate, and speed up these fiddly bloated crawlers? We already have Gloomhaven if we want a puzzley slow paced fiddle fest game to play for 100 years. (I love GH, just being devils advocate) Or sword and sorcery, descent, brimstone, imperial assault, folklore, etc. Is the phrase "elegant dungeon crawler" an oxymoron?
Maybe Wildlands as well... i have heard good things about that game, though maybe its less dungeon crawler, try Champions of Hara .... thats quite freshing
There have been dungeon crawler boardgames of varying complexity levels going back to the 1970s. How about the old Dungeon! boardgame? It's a simple streamlined dungeon crawler. Dungeonquest is another example which is far more simple than this game but still has the same dungeon delving theme.
Claustrophobia is streamlined and quick. Blackstone Fortress is also pretty streamlined with the only real exception having to look up some d20 tables.
Does it help that one of the lead Artists is female? And lets be fair there's an equal amount of undress between the characters. I should be clear the art style/theme is the thing I like least about the game but we have to be fair in our assessment of it.
@@chrismurphy9932 hundreds of board games come out every year... you could just ignore the fantasy dungeon crawls and move on to the others. I'm sure it'll find plenty of players either way ;)
@@CloakingDonkey Yeah, sure, I could just ignore these games (and I'm certainly not interested in this one for that reason). But it's so sad that most teenage girls, who want to play a "DnD-style" board game, would refuse to play this because any female character they chose would obviously be a sex toy. I'm sorry, but this is not acceptable. This game (and its designer/publisher) has knowingly made a game that will alienate any female player unless that female player wants to roleplay being a sex object for men. That's really sad and unfortunate.
@@cbazler Actually what's sad and unfortunate is that's the one detail you have focused on in a 20+ minute positive review. Given all the content and mechanics. To be honest there won't be many teenagers or kids playing this game. Kickstarter and 100+ dollar boardgames cater to adult gamers. Just about every game that has female characters ( Tainted Grail a recent one) has people upset about how they are portrayed. Don't look at KDM you'll probably cry ....
I am kinda turn off of all this HUGE box overly complex games of late... the art is great but again... overly sexualized anime like characters are a bit of a turn off... and this comes from an anime fan XD... I think that a more serious tone would have fit a lot better. Either way, great review. Cheers
@@dilatedbeholder3865 Anime it's a form of media and if you step away from ecchi and/or harem most of it is NOT oversexualize. It does have silly sexual humor some times, but we are taking about the "OVERsexualize" look of this product here. The anime design choice is fine, it's the ecchi/harem look that drives us off. So, please stop "dilating" and think a little bit before trying to be a smart ass.
The Dice Tower kudos for keeping upbeat guy, but I do genuinely believe that criticism and ridicule (from those we respect or care about) is how we are driven to improve ourselves. I found what you were saying quite informative and helpful but couldn’t get through the whole video. You don’t have to do what I tell you, but I’d say work on those L’s in the middle of words dude. You can clearly pronounce the letter, just not doing it in the middle of words for some reason. Even if there’s a legit reason, it’s like nails on a chalkboard to me sorry, and I had to press skip. All that said though; what I did listen to was enough to put this game on my list to research some more. 👍
stop doing reviews on kickstarter games u can not get any more its useless i want this now but cnt get it unless i pay a premium for a used copy which is now higher due to the video
