Shadows of Brimstone is an amazing game, glad to see it here! The assembling models thing comes from the Hills love of wargaming, no snobbery whatsoever.
Maybe a little snobbery on my part, but I would also argue that unassembled minis still hold more detail than the typical PVC fare we see in pre-assembled minis. The detail gap is closing but I think there's still a difference: Awaken Realms minis look nice, especially the sundrop ones, but they still don't quite measure up to the plastic models from Games Workshop or Kingdom Death imo. Then again, the original Brimstone models weren't detailed enough that they couldn't have been done in PVC.
Shadows of Brimstone at it's core is a fairly basic dice chuckin' dungeon crawl kind of game. So I was trying to think why I love it so much, and I think what elevates it for me is the crazy events and special abilities from equipment and things like that. I think they do a great job of giving you the highs and lows that keep things exciting.
I think in one of their kickstarter videos they said that many of the players (not me:-) ) like it to put the minis together, individualice the poses, etc. But overall a great game and on way too few best-of lists.
_Level_ _7_ _[Omega_ _Protocol]_ is a *great* one-against-many dungeon crawler. _Blackstone_ _Fortress_ is really fun too, though the difficulty curve is such that the game gets too easy later in the campaign. Expansions help rectify that though. 😈
Blackstone Fortress gives that old school dungeon crawler feel with modern gameplay. It's fantastic. But, yeah, the difficulty curve for the core box causes it to get too easy.
Still easily the most underrated DC ever with the best enemy activation, quest design and combat dynamics. Ancient Chronicles is such an improvement over the initial base game. But it is so sad to see that Simone Romano and Nunzio Surace do not receive enough credit for their design.
@@VaultBoy13 Not really. The information is necessary. Hiding it in an app would definitely change the game. But we will see with what the Teburu version will offer. ;)
I wondered if anybody would mention this. It is definitely my favorite one shot dungeon crawl. Also, agree that the campaign wasn't as good as the regular game, but it kind of wasn't meant to be. It's really too bad that blacklist games fell apart.
Im a huge dungeon crawl fan, and no offense but I thought Altar Quest was total garbage tier :D It had some nice ideas but in practice I did not enjoy playing it at all.
They were one point price champions for sure, I got castle ravenloft for 45 euros, but I think the newer ones are more then double that price with the same content. Also they come with deluxe versions with colored miniatures I think.
WHQ from 90s is the best Miss some of the things that they removed when making Shadows of Brimstone Middara is the other that are in my best dungeon crawler
Don't forget that in Lobotomy II: Manhunt, the characters are all IP - the idea is that the "patients" truly believe they are these IP characters. Examples: Captain Jack Sparrow, Ash (Evil Dead) and Morpheus (Matrix.) They get away with it because technically these are NOT real IP, only BASED on IP. (They're IP haha)
Top 16 Dungeon Crawls I would like to play 1. Frost Haven 2. Etherfields 3. Tainted Grail 4. Okko Chronicles 5. Conan by Monolith 6. Chronicles of Drunagor 7. Dice Thrones Adventures 8. Fireteam Zero 9. Stormsunder (not out yet) 10. Soul Raiders (not out yet) 11. Werewolf the Apocalypse (not out yet) 12. Elder Scrolls by Chip Theory games. 13. Shadows of Brimstone 14. Agemonia 15. Fateforge Chronicles of Kaan 16. Batman: Animated Adventures
Yeah the OG shadows of brimstone minis were ATROCIOUS to put together. When they redid them in the 2.0 version it was far less so, but uuuugh! I suspect a lot of people that say they dislike the putting together the mini aspect of SoB tried to do so in the first edition and as an avid wargamer, some of those minis were even a pain for me!
I saw Gloomhaven at Walmart sitting in an unrelated section, picked it up and couldn't believe what I was seeing. I looked up the price on my phone, and it was on sale online at Walmart's site for 29.99. They wouldn't give me the online price at the front, so I went to the parking lot, bought it, walked right back in. I was completely in love with almost every aspect of it. That freaking book is a game changing cream dream. The hidden stuff you unlock, tucked away in a box... Say whaaaat?! I was working out of town, staying in hotels through the week, hating life, so this was the perfect thing. I was stoked to crawl my way through this campaign, savoring every bit. It all fell apart, however, once I realized it was a puzzle game. Turn over every stone? Nope! Time's up! Pick up that treasure? Nope! Economy of motion is the name of the day! Not criticizing it for what it is. This is one of the most skillfully produced games I've ever seen. I love the unique features it brings. That book is revolutionary, and does away with the tedium of generic tile sets. The fact that all I had to do was not flip through the map book, and the world ahead would be a complete mystery, as opposed to another recombination of the same tiles, was such an allure.
@@gaebril131Both are great, and have enough differences to own or play both. The amount interchangeable content (when figuring in the expansions) gives Descent more replay value, so I get why it's higher on Tom's list.
Someday I will go through the whole Descent: Jorney in the dark, I've already got all the stuff - so I need just enough time to do that. I suppose - that it is one of the most intresting versions of Dungeon Crawlers. Probably the next one is Midarra! And of course I have many-many other Dungeon Crawler games - I have a lot of them, but I have a little time - you know...
Nice to see Omega Protocol is still at #13. (Apparently at least, considering it's mentioned right after Middara at #12 in the end ;) ) I was wondering how that one held up for Tom. :)
I don't think the spatial positioning aspect of it is strong enough. A big part of the genre is also getting to do what you want on your turn, which the LCG format precludes.
@@NoobwaterI've played probably 20 scenarios of it across 3 campaigns, and while there are locations I don't really feel the game has much of a spatial spect. DMD has a similar number of location spaces, but positioning is more of a factor. For me though, the argument is mainly the action selection, which makes it a Card game emulating a dungeon crawler.
I would add Level 7: Omega Protocol and Conan (Monolith) but I really liked here that Camilla included Lobotomy II: Manhunt which is also fantastic. I'm also happy you thought to include Catacombs which is such a cool game.
Isnt conan a skirmish game? Its another related minis on a map or tile genre but I guess since you play team vs team its diffent. Or is this a different conan game?
@@Infyra Conan is a one vs all game. It does not have a campaign, but instead several one-off battles. You discover treasures and hidden monsters/objectives on a map once you enter the hidden area.
Oh I backed this and got rid of it quickly. It has one of the biggest sins in a game for me. A timer. And when you effectively rest then the timer goes double fast. For no good reason.
@@nielsjensen6897 That's unfortunate but most games have some kind of timed element so the game does not effectively last forever. Rounds, a deck of cards, etc.
No Journeys in Middle-Earth is a crime, I play with my wife so campaign is not a problem for me. Also I really enjoy Bloodborne the Boardgame but I'm biased, it's my favorite video game of all time
I was thinking that was a weird choice for a dungeon crawler honorable mention too (great game though). Same with Cutthroat Caverns, which imo is a better version of Munchkin but even less of a dungeon crawler.
@@thedicetower in all honesty there's some games on your list I wouldn't really call dungeon crawlers, the problem with the genre is that it means different things to different people. Dungeon crawl for me is more about a fantasy dungeon exploration, I have been playing TTRPGs and RPGS for 40 years and whenever anyone mentioned playing a Dungeon crawl it would mean a fantasy dungeon exploration game of some kind.
@@thedicetower I know this channel dislikes that game (with the exception of Mike), but Nemesis absolutely *is* a dungeon crawl! You wake up in a dark (space) dungeon; go exploring room to room; there is unpredictability in what enemies appears and when/where; you collect weapons, ammo and special items to help you survive as you try to meet your objectives; and you have special objectives to complete, collectively and individually. Only thing missing is a campaign mode, but you kind of have one as an add-on with Untold Stories. It is as much as dungeon crawl to me as something like Cthulhu DMD, Zombicide, or any "one-off" dungeon crawlers on your lists. And at the end of the video Tom even mentions how he wishes there were more "one-off" dungeon crawlers. Well Nemesis is one!
Tom's list has the most games (5) I would agree are top 10 dungeon crawlers, Joey has the most games (3) that are top 10ers for me, but I don't own (yet), and I gotta give Milla credit for the biggest expanse of theme - from stuffed fables to The Others and Lobotomy 2.
SoB is pretty much hobby tier at this point, alongside 40K, with the amount of expansions and minis available. It's great, but I can understand some people not wanting to build minis.
I don't know if I consider it a DC, but I love Escape the Dark Castle. The art is great, the theme is great, it reminds me so much of the old Eye of the Beholder or the newish Legend of Grimrock. It's easy to play and easy to get people invested. I'm also with Joey and Camilla for my number one: Death May Die is just too good. I agree that not every scenario is a slam dunk, but the ones that are (my all-time favourite is the 3rd from the first box, The Ball), are some of the finest game design I've ever seen.
I consider it a DC just because one opens a door (turns card over) and deals with what is there. Maybe fight a baddie, deal with a trap, find a rotten apple, then move on. And I love the art and feel as well, especially with the soundtrack.
I played a couple scenarios in Death May Die and thought it was solid but it didn't grab me the way it seems to for a lot of people. You've made me curious about trying The Ball, though, if I ever get the chance to play it again.
With regards to the models in shadows of brimstone, this game is catering to a different type of gamer. This is really catering to the hobbyist gamer. People who liked Warhammer 95. I think the reason why Flying Frogs mostly focuses on shadows of brimstone is because the company is incredibly small. It's literally a small family company. Almost everybody that works in the company is a relative. So I don't think they have the big production capabilities like CMON.
Tbf though, that is true for a great many board game companies, but your production capabilities are set by the factory, and they certainly could make one piece models even as a small company if they wanted to.
I really liked the list of Camilla, and good to see shadows of Brimstone on a list here. Games like Cthulhu Death May Die and Shadows of Brimstone are very high on my list. Other games, that could be interesting and fit on a skirmish/dungeon crawler venn diagram would be sci-fi themed Core Space:First Born and the upcoming fantasy Maladum:Dungeons of Enveron - if you are prepared to build the 3d cardboard terrain map.
Sorry but I gave TED a 4.5 out of 10. It's a sloggy, fiddly and somewhat generic game with a terrible rulebook. I'm a bit bitter and maybe overreacting a bit as I had high hopes when I took it on vacation last year.
@@freeheeler00 I agree the rulebook is pretty frustrating. I understand they have to use a lot of symbology to save card space and (allegedly) fit everything in the small box, but the rulebook does a poor job teaching how to interpret those symbols. I like the idea of the game and thought it was decent for what it is, but the one time I played my group had to cut it short halfway through because we spent too long looking up rules and it got too late. At least from what I played I think I'd put it higher than a 4.5 once I fully grasp the rules, but I'd have to play a full game to say for sure.
I loved Gloomhaven and still appreciate it as a great game, but the scenarios are so repetitive and the story is so forgettable I stopped after 30 plays. Gameplay wise I found it too much of a puzzle. Guess I like a little more freedom to explore in a dungeon crawler.
I only played 5 or 6 scenarios in Gloomhaven but I think what bothered me most was having to manually pick up loot while also managing my hand. Running around manually picking up loot in video games is boring and tedious, and it fares even worse in the transition to tabletop, especially when there's an implicit turn limit with your constantly dwindling deck of cards.
I’m glad when you mentioned the Tidal Blades 2 dungeon game. I’m super excited to get my copy when it finally ships. I hope to pick up a few games from this list to try with friends.
Building minis in Shadows of Brimstone. Personally at first i was like really what a dumb idea. But i have built and painted almost all 3 base core sets and multiple expansions sets and i love knowing i put these things together and after being painted they just pop the experiences my group has had playing this game with the eye candy attacking us around every room or tunnel. Never had a game the same and yet our characters keep leveling and changing overtime. Its awesome. And my number 1
I half agree with Tom's view of Mansions of Madness 1st edition. I own the 1st edition and every single expansion that was made for it, all in almost new condition and sleeved. Yes, it's worth a lot of money. Now, playing both games rules as written, straight out of the box, I think the 2nd edition is probably better. But, for someone like me who enjoys being the Keeper and spends a good deal of time writing up room descriptions, selecting background music from the internet, finding period appropriate stuff off the internet for handouts, etc, I much prefer 1st edition. I've even expanded the combat tables to 30 unique outcomes for each class of Monster (Humanoid, Beast, Eldritch) with four different attack types per monster category (No Weapon, Sharp Melee, Blunt Melee, and Ranged), which means there are a total of 120 different possible combat resolutions for each monster category. I can create a MUCH better "vibe" and atmosphere than the app can for my players. Finally, I play with the "unofficial" fan-made rules that fixed the problems of the original 1st edition rules, balancing things so that it really is a One vs. Many experience where the Keeper can actually try to win as opposed to striving to create an interesting game like a neutral game master. But Tom isn't into semi co-op, so he still wouldn't care for it.
I think they also released all the first edition tiles and monsters as a addon for the 2nd edition, so why is the first edition worth so much? I think I have it laying around somewhere as well. I know why chaos in the old world is an expensive game now, but I dont understand the same for Mom 1st edition :D
Tom’s build up for Mansions of Madness was hilarious. He’s so defensive about people saying it’s not a dungeon crawl and yet I’ve never heard anyone argue that it isn’t.
Deck Box Dungeons I know it's the opposite of what most people like in their Dungeon Crawls. But while I enjoy my Gloomhaven and Mansions of Madness and Imperial Assault, and while I'm waiting for Vagrant Song to arrive, I am happy to have something small, portable and easy to set up that gives me a Dungeon Crawl feel in a small space. It's my travel fix for this genre, and I recently bought a second box so the app can build me more elaborate layouts!
Warhammer Quest is my #1 with League of Dungeoneers and/or Dungeon Universalis! The ones I agreed with are Shadows of Brimstone(the best of those mentioned), the D&D adventure series and Gloomhaven. Chronicles of Drunagor and Arkeis are probably good but i haven't played them. There are so many awesome games missed tho. Heroquest got mentioned and dismissed but what about Advanced HeroQuest or Warhammer Quest old or new. Blackstone Fortress is awesome. How about Dungeon Crusade, Altar Quest, Dungeon Degenerates, Machina Arcana, Quest for the lost Pixel, Iron Helm/Tin Helm, Cult of Barnacle Bay, Folklore, Myth, Away Missions, Assault on Doomrock, Space Hulk(If Claustrophobia counts). There is just so many. Still an enjoyable episode, Thanks.
Blackstone Fortress is the biggest miss. However, I think most of the Games Workshop stuff is going to be blind spot for The Dice Tower. Tom (and most of the others) aren't interested in assembling minis. If Joey is balking at the price of Massive Darkness 2, then he's not going to buy a GW dungeon crawler. So, I think that means about the only way one of these games would end up getting played is if Dice Tower gets a free copy and Joey or Roy assemble it. (And, GW seems much more likely to give free copies of their content to painters which are more likely to hit their target audience.) And, Altar Quest is shit. I'm sorry, but it just is. Even the best MDS game is simply good, and Altar Quest is the worst of them. It's even worse than the buddy-cop game that was little more than hijacking cars back and forth across the city to stop criminals.
the more hobbyist games get, the less likely reviewers tried them. with how much time it takes to do what they do, a long game (2h+) can be already annoying, as you could do reviews of multiple mass market games in that time. DUN and LoD are heavy expansive lifestyle games. it is fair enough for them to stay bellow the treshold how much commitment they can spare. like you would NEVER see a war game top 10, since 99 % of them take too much dedication to get started. in 2014 they tried to make a war game top 10, and Zee had Small World in top 3...
I was looking for this on the list. I have the KS version on my shelf of shame as i struggle to get anyone interested in playing it with me over C:DMD and Lobotomy 2. Tempted to sell it as I’m not going to solo it
Big thanks to Camilla for bringing the horror picks and diversity of preference. Very bummed about just finding out about Lobotomy 2 and not being able to get the all-in.
Love me some Shadows for Brimstone. It's a lifestyle game though. The mini's are great and fun to build. Lot's off opportunity to learn how to paint, but just a little color goes a long way, OR dip them for antique look and carry on and just play. IMHO, the only way to keep this easy to table is to look up on BGG and learn some tips on storage for cards, tiles and mini's and just ditch the coffin boxes. It makes tabling this way, WAY better and much less intimidating to play. SO fun to play and level up and PLENTY of expansions to add to replayability.
there were for sure more than 2 or 3: Dungeon! . The Sorcerer's Cave, Death Maze, Hero, The Mystic Wood, Citadel of Blood, Mertwigs Maze, The Castle, Valkenburg Castle, Warlock Firetop Mountain, Dragon Quest Dungeon, Dark World, Knightmare, Dragon Strike, Cave Troll, Wiz War, Drakon, Mage Knight Dungeons, Dungeon Quest.
I suppose he meant 20 years ago as in 2004 ish, which had descent and he also mentioned AEG's tomb. I think that was actually a bit later then 2004. Sure the 80s and even 90s had a lot of games like this with hero quest, dark world etc, but those were all mostly aimed at children. I think seeing Descent first edition (which was a remake of ffgs doom board game) made me think of a modern version of the games I used to play as a kid in the 80s (such as heroquest). Its funny that pretty much all of the modern dungeon crawl board games can trace their ancestry somewhat to that doom board game from FFG.
I really like One Deck Dungeon. I think it's a pretty cool system for cramming a dungeon crawl into a tiny box. Speaking of which, I just got my copy of Unreliable Wizard today, and that's also really fun.
I wasn't surprised it wasn't included in any top 10 but I wish it had been. The campaign mechanics/story eventually drove me away, but the combat (especially enemy AI) remains at the top for me compared to any others I've played.
Agreed. This is my #1 dungeon crawl. The mechanics really work for me. Love the flexibility of the character build. The Anime style is true to the genre. Love or hate it. I frankly find it delightfully fun. Sorry.
@@robinmckercher65yeah me too. It’s most surprising to me how a lot of these people “offended” by the art are from my same generation. Like…if you watched anime growing up, this art is not extreme at all. It’s not over the top sexualized or gross. I think it’s cute and like you said “fun” is a great description of the style. It’s goofy, silly, etc. personally the art is one of the things that attracted me the most to this game because most board games stay away from it. Definitely a niche group I guess but then the gameplay OMG. Sooooooo fun. Can’t believe an art preference would ruin a game for some. There’s some games I think the art is horrendous but a good game is a good game…talking to you Root…
I'm surprised Bloodborne Board Game, Resident Evil, and Aliens: Another Glorious Day In The Corps didn't make anyone's top 10!! Bloodborne is brilliant!
Folklore the Affliction has a really cool mechanism for running the baddies that I would like to see in other games and Masmorra may be too old but the expansion makes a difference
I don't know... I think Divinity Original Sin is an Open World Adventure game. Almost the opposite of a tight (some might say claustrophobic) dungeon crawl. Interesting lists though.
A underrated one especially if you like puzzly deckbuilding dungeon crawlers is Dungeon Alliance. Furthermore, its really hard for me to pick my favorite minis on tiles type dungeon crawler, I have played a lot of them and they all have positives and negatives, things they do better then any other game. I think years ago descent 1st edition was the total top dog, especially with the road to legend campaign expansion, but it was a one vs many and not a true coop experience. Nowadays there are so many dungeon crawl kickstarters that came out, I have just received and not played yet games like agemonia. For my overall dungeon crawler that I like to play most, until I actually play it: shadows of brimstone. I like the idea of that game, but there are too many dice rolls for me (even as a dice rolling fan). I really enjoyed Chronicles of Drunagor, but I think my dungeon crawl itch is scratched by the boss battler genre pretty well and I my favorite to go for at this moment is Aeon Trespass Odessey.
I've never played Catacombs, but I LOVE Disc Duelers which I feel like is probably something along the lines of competitive Catacombs. I feel like I need to pick up a copy of Catacombs.
SoB is my favorite game but I will never understand why Flying Frog won't give an option for prebuilt minis and just charge a little more. I'd even be okay with acrylic standees. But it ain't gonna happen.😞😞
Hey guys! Would you consider reviewing Bag of Dungeon 2, there's almost no reviews for it and it's an outstanding game and devs put a lot of care into it. They even revised the first game multiple time with new graphic and updated meeple and rules. It sets up and literally 30 seconds and it packs a punch. I have no connection with devs I'm just baffled i could find basically no coverage for it which almost made me give it a pass
For me a Dungeon Crawler is navigating on hidden tiles, which slowly uncover the "dungeon" and revealing new enemies. And saying that, I just realized Fallout the board game also would fall into that category, but I clearly see that as an adventure game, duh...
It’s probably one of the best Dungeon Crawler out there. If they’ve downgraded it just because they don’t like the artwork they need to grow up a bit. It’s comments like those that made me stop watching Shut Up and Sit Down
My predictions: for the Adventure games list no one will have the best Adventure game (and one of the best solo games as voted by the solo BGG community)
The Divinity Original Sin games are made by the same studio thatade Baldurs Gate 3. And I think they're a bit harder than BG3. I think Tom should give at least Original Sin 2 a shot after Baldurs Gate 3. Excellent lists guys. I think I'm going to finally pull the trigger on Catacombs. I've been wanting it since the first edition that has the black box.
Mansions of Madness is a great game love playing i worry about down the road when the app doesnt work anymore you cant play the game. It will be a sad day, but I think that will be a thing for most board games that rely on the app. Hope we have more years before that happens but the board games move quick.
Hi love dungeon crawlers! Just randomly thought of a video idea " top 10 games you will save in a fire" hahaha a question that I don't want to think about but just thought it's interesting
Sad Conan (Monolith) was not mentioned in the Video but glad others mentioned in the comments. Descent 2nd edition is probably my favorite DC. Glad Lobotomy II was mentioned in video, and although I own has not seen the table yet, but I have played Lobotomy before. Also "Super fantasy Ugly snouts" was a nice call out. I went out and bought miniatures to replace the tokens, to pimp-out my copy.
