Hey HTF guys, newer listener here. I appreciate the discussion and Brian Carter coming out to explain it. However, I have two questions with this: 1. Why does it matter how toxic the chemicals are? The chemicals still don't conform to the benchmarks, so why does it matter if they are not as bad for you as previous chemicals. 2. The WRG penalty is very clear for not meeting the benchmarks. Section 7 V a-e state "and" not "and/or" for each item, so the penalty is very clear. And I understand Section 9 lists the results that can come from the Appeal and the Commission can change it. I get that. But the rule is very clear, so how does the Commission have the ability to state, in this case, the rule is bad or too harsh? The rule isn't ambiguous or open for interpretation. If they change the rule going forward, then great, do that. But if the rule is very clear and the result of the test is upheld, arbitrarily changing the rule is a bad precedent. You know, I can get onboard with decreasing part of the penalty if the driver/team told the sanction and commission, you know we did do it, here is where we got the stuff and what it was (like the Lucas Director mentioned, be part of the solution). And it be full known to the full time competitors of the series. Then move forward with the next offense resulting in a bomb of a penalty. But even then, the first offense comes off as a pseudo pass, even though the money part can be significant.
Just a thought, if they would have caught a local racer and got caught would they have rescind Ed the call. A rule is a rule, it’s the same for all. Remember justice is supposed to blind.👍
Our constitution doesn't change, the professor should have known that. As far as tires, they should be issued and marked as needed by Hoosier at the track. If you win tires should be confiscated and tested. They tare your motor down to check so should your tires. If ya get caught cheating ya lose what ever ya won along with fines. Its simple..
"make it legal" and you reintroduce the dangerous chemicals because there is no limit. Then you have already let the cat out of the bag and it won't go back. Then you have safety issues on and off the track. Also, the driver answer for team members who fight so denying knowing is not a valid defense of tire prep
coming from a kart racing background, I can't understand why a car track has a rule of no chemical tire treatments allowed but will allow the karts on the same property to chemically alter their tires. In NY I've heard that it is an EPA/DEC regulation that chemically altered tire can not be used on an auto racing track. But at the same facility no one bats an eye that the karts are doing this. I see both sides of the argument but am thankful that I dont need $1500+ in chemicals in my trailer like I did while racing karts
It sounded to me like the appeals board decided not to kill an entire season for these guys but take the points from the race they were caught at plus all the winnings from those races. The returned money to be redistributed to the next legal positions throughout the field.
2 things- if 1method of treating tires does help provide longevity and is readily available online, it is extremely hard to stop, especially if it is saving drivers money, and preventing flat tires in long races on abrasive tracks. IF the other method of treating tires is making the rubber softer to improve grip, it will be easily detectable with a durometer. If there is a compound softness rule, it is easy to police and punishments can be handed out during post race inspection. It just makes no sense to have to make enforcing the rules far too difficult and time consuming.
The fines were way higher then what you say if I remember the interview with Kenny Wallace and Brian. Moran lost his pts for that race and his prize money plus the fine.
Its not the process that is the problem its the authorities manipulation and lack of accountability. The constitution and bill of rights is not our problem but the politicians that are manipulating them and the lack of accountability. This is why we struggle to elect good leaders because of the corruption.
Issuing a penalty to someone who broke your rules is ok...AS LONG AS you are not the beneficiary of money taken because a fine was part of your penalty.
No such thing as safe tire prep other than taking a set of tires and leaving them out in the elements for month of summer. That's only going to take the oil out of the rubber making the tire harder.. Anything else you do will soften it which has horrible ingredients.
Just sayin, go to any short track in the country, get caught doping tires, and you forfeit your entire season. Some tracks go to as far as forfeiting your winnings for the entire season
They did it because they will just go run LOS. It’s dumb. All sanctions, all tracks , need to have same tire rules and consequences. But people never do anything that makes sense
I wouldn't want to be your tire guy, he's the first one you would throw under the bus. You know when they take a sample, they cut it and put it in a sealed bag. not just one but two... You get one to keep too just in case..... Onn that note, Blue ridge is trash.... They won't verify, or probably even know the difference in mold release vs washing, or doctoring a tire. Look at the MSDS sheets they have..
the fines are different because some of the fines were prize money, not sure what wrong with process after race tires get collected and go the lab, brian carter says the lab has never been wrong , they tried sneak tires threw and were caught, the lab is 100 pecent right they cuaght it every time, we just dont want the best driver to sit out thats the problem Bobby and Ricky are the stars and cant have them on sidline, money overrides right thing every time and will into futue, but prcess is not flawed in my opinion
Love these guys but they are off here. It is VERY easy to execute chain of custody procedures. It's a process that has been around for a long time. If they allow "doping" then they just added a new expense as everyone now has to do it. This needs to be a hard no. NASCAR actually got this one right, don't mess with the motor limits, the tires, or the fuel. That should be replicated across all racing series IMO.
Other than where the teams purchased the tires, a chain of custody for the samples is already in place. The team takes their own samples from spots designated by the officials using their own tire grooving tool and places them in the sealed container. So the only potential "contamination" is either due to where they got the tires, of their own doing or potentially from the tool used to take the sample. I would imagine they take into account the levels of the contaminants found in the samples too. Is it a small trace amount or something at levels more significant than you ran through a small puddle of said contaminants in the pits. At this point I think people are just making excuses because of who got caught rather than the fact someone got caught. Had these been nobody's in the industry, no one bats an eye at the results and calls it black and white. I mean heck they said Bronson has already been popped before in recent times by the same lab and remember they labhas no clue who he samples came from until after they've tested positive for doping. That should tell ya enough about that crew.
Basically you can not believe anything Carter says. How about the interview where he tellls Kenny Wallace that it is important to not show favoritism 🤣
Dude what are you saying he got a break or whatever he literally went from leading the points to 16 even after the first offense is ok thing y'all are saying Bobby Pierce i hope he comes back and sucks the wrap off every driver that wanted to doubt him
As a fan I am sick and tired hearing about tires and cheating. No one talks about having a tire impound. Racers bring their wheels to the races, all tires are purchased at the track, all tires are kept in full view of everyone. Another words not stashed in the front of the trailer, full view period. Problem solved. No more he said she said, no more we don’t trust the process, another words shut up quit bitching and crying.Actions speak louder then words.
If you make the decision to use an illegal tyre then you are knowingly cheating. So there should be proper prosecution, no question. You are deceiving the fans, the other competitors and the manufacturers. This kind of thing just drives fans away from the sport.
"Tire Doping" happened last year with a full time team that was running with the WOO Sprint Cars Series. Did that team get the time penalty reduced from appeal? Don't think so...
The fact of the matter is he got caught cheating and eventually whined enough about it until they just dropped it. I don't care who you are if you get caught breaking the rules you shouldn't complain about paying the penalty. He's the leader of his team it's his responsibility to make sure he is legal. That includes doping of his tires. The truth is he's on the same equipment as most everybody else is nowadays and yes he's a good driver as they all are so it's no surprise that he's doping his tires trying to gain an edge on these guys. He got caught so pay the fine and accept the penalty and move on. I don't think it's fair that he's getting to continue to race for points now. What about the guys in the past who had to pay there penalties for breaking a rule. It's not fair to them not to mention the guys who haven't broken the rules and maybe not doing so well in the points.
Trouble you see is endemic with Racing Organizers in that they hold absolute power and users of their product are Required to sign away their Rights in order to participate....IF...This were to be Judged in a proper legal manner, the fine and suspension would require proper diagnostic and challenge of evidence, which it does NOT.....There is No Proof that the Unspecified chemical is/ was applied by the people charged and is not from any contaminate not found on the surface of the facility, and were ONLY the front finishers tested and NO other in the final race, for a common contamination.....Sorry men, but this is a Dick Tracey action and most of the Track and Participants are unskilled in that field.....
67 tires had samples took. Each tire had 3 samples taken at 3 different locations on the tire. 3 failed out of 67, 2nd sample submitted another fail. They done it, plain and simple.
@@jamietwigg4845 Not quite so cut and dried, what was the chemical and is it a common one found in use AND does it change any properties of the tire.....You are accusing people of cheating, that infers that they Knowingly in violation of the Rules, did so....Missing that, you Are Defaming them, which is actionable.....
@@regdor8187 3 sample out of 67 tires says it wasn't something they ran over on the track. They know the chemical, it was disclosed to those it needed to be, just because they didn't tell everyone doesn't change the fact it happened. Changing the chemical makeup of a tire doesn't happen by running over it on the track, it's takes several coats for that to happen. They cheated and got caught.
Jonathan wants to crucify someone and not know all the particulars. It could of been the tire guy did the tires and no one on the team knew about it. A whole laundry list of reasons why the change of the penalties . The could of bought tires from another team and on and on what could of happened. Bronson probably knew his were bad.
Fuk no, that’s not what some fans want. Faster racing isn’t necessarily safer for anyone. Cars are flipping quite often already. Make them faster it becomes more dangerous
Maybe take a break from your podcast and study your Constitution. Its not ever evolving. So please don't give an explanation of something you are not properly equipped to do so.
