This was Mike's grand scheme from the jump. He decided one day that he would sacrifice 10 years of his life discussing movies and shows that he isn't really interested in only to one day, a decade later, be able to talk about star trek:TNG to his hearts content. Mission accomplished Mike, mission accomplished.
"They're going to dig her up for Star Trek Picard Season Two and she's going to run around with a machine gun." Oof. Mike cursed with the gift of clairvoyance.
I'm amazed they overlooked the fact that when the Enterprise encounters the Wolf-359 graveyard, Riker has a chilling moment when he sees the destroyed USS Melbourne, the ship for which he was offered command.
I love how Rich Evans is still humble enough to introduce himself as if we don't know his name. And I love how the other guy keeps it together and isn't too starstruck.
Q’s character arc on TNG makes sense. He was testing humanity to see if they were a worthy species. Once they prove themselves as being capable, he starts to steer them in a more benevolent way, and eventually develops an affection for them. Particularly his obsession with Picard.
Would that then imply that the hacks who wrote Picard extended that logic to culminate in "Q is dead and feels fine about leaving the universe in Picard's hands"?
The thirteen-years-long grand opus known as Red Letter Media is finally reaching its logical conclusion: Old Trek reviews by Rich and Mike. It's. So. Beautiful. 😢
The follow-up episode where he gets an explanation and apology from the fan, and is just too fucking bitter and dense to listen to more than five seconds of it and claims it was an attack, was my personal favorite
This! I think that's also why I don't mind the ending shot of Best of Both Worlds part 2, it flows so smoothly with Family. (Though I do see Mike's point in the video as well)
Maybe it was explained in some other media, but I never understood why the Enterprise didn’t use the teleporter to beam massive explosives onto the Borg ship. If people and their equipment can beam through Borg shields, why not nukes and neutron bombs?
TNG does denouement TERRIBLY. It usually lasts about 60 seconds. Best of Both Worlds is equally guilty, especially after such a powerful plot point. “Family” was a much needed follow up and is very much deserving of a Part 3 moniker.
@@Noplayster13 because the Borg don’t see a few humans as a threat until fired upon(all they have are phasers). I presume if they beamed in with a ton of explosives they would be seen as a threat, and the bombs with be blocked during transport, or beamed out. They also adapt, so even if one species tried and successfully did it once, they wouldn’t allow it again.
Yeah, I never understood why the holofecks continued to function with all the malfunction when I was younger. Now that I'm older I get it, the crew would go insane otherwise, so it was worth it if 20% of the time your senior officers use the holodeck that ot puts them in sever danger
Good point, it gets rid of the problems with cabin fever. Also can keep skills sharp and help with fitness. The amount of porn in there would be off the chain though.
@@infinitelybanta wait so it's all one big loop... he suggested in his Phantom Menace review that JJ direct Star Wars films. He praised Star Trek 2009, then JJ directed part 7 and 9. @redlettermedia what's good???
Anyone trying to recover from _Star Trash Disaster, Star 'Tard: Picard_ and _Star Wreck: Lower Dreck_ can find the remedy in "Seth Trek" _The Orville_ -- the spiritual successor to ST:TNG. (Edit: Added ST:LD)
I'm late to this (shame on me!) but as a counselor, I loved the little discussion of Troi vs Guinan as counselors!Mike and Rich's observations, as well as the show, were pretty spot on. Troi, imo, behaves more like a new counselor would. She has her theory and procedures down (sounding like she's reading from a text or protocols) and she's also just a little too soft, gentle or emotionally invested. Guinan, on the other hand, is like one of those amazing older,experienced counselors. Well-trained but relying on their intuition and experience. Their counsel is based on the foundations of theory but they never sound like they're reading from a book because they've actually incorporated the philosophy into their work. They aren't afraid to push a little harder, be a bit more confrontational (in a good way!) and can cut through the bs much faster. Which, given the characters, makes a lot of sense, it's incredibly apt. Sorry for rambling, I doubt that observation is as interesting to anyone else as it was to me but ah well!
You're not alone, at a glance I don't see anyone else in the comments mention it but thought it was very interesting and the deeper character knowledge Rich and Mike possess only helped the observation, and yours was nice to read too. Thanks.
"I doubt that observation is as interesting to anyone else as it was to me but ah well!" You're discussing the technical details of the occupation of two of the main characters, on a video about TNG. I think you will find an audience here.
Troi is the city psychologist with a framed picture of Freud and diplomas on the wall. Guinan is the 100-year-old kung-fu master living alone in a wooden cabin at the top of the mountain.
the reason Worf was so ready to side with the judge in that one episode is that she took advantage of his insecurities over his klingon heritage and implied that he wouldn't be taken seriously as a true Starfleet officer unless she had his complete compliance. Worf was put into the unenviable position of proving his loyalty to Starfleet over one of his people.
Maybe partly, but the main reason is it also plays to his character. Worf does always think there are enemies that must be found and attacked, and the right response to a problem is with force. She gave him a tempting target to fight - a conspiracy on his ship, and initially he says “if” one exists he will find it. In his mind there is nothing wrong with investigating and finding out if there is a problem - he’s security after all. He then eagerly follows the judge down a path of over zealous investigation like a member of the gestapo, and admits he was duped at the end of the episode and he was shocked he willingly helped the judge. We see his instinct to react without thinking and with force ad nauseum in TNG. He has much better growth on DS9, but even there, that character trait exists: there was that episode where he grumbles about going to Rise with Dax, and ends up being convinced to sabotage the planetary environmental controls with a weird terroroist organisation that believes the federation is decadent for having too much fun and pleasure. Again, he was easily duped, but more than happy to go along with it.
I'm with Rich, important to the overall series sure, but it isn't as much fun to watch on its own as other episodes. It is more 'important' than 'great'.
Would you guys be surprised to learn that extremely competent and talented producer Rick Berman was responsible for Best of Both Worlds not having an official Part 3. He rejected the idea for Best of Both Worlds being a trilogy as the writers originally pitched. The writers obviously knew that they couldn't end a Part 2 with Picard at the absolute lowest point of his life and then just go on to a space anomaly episode next week, which is 100% what Berman wanted. So they pushed extremely hard for them to at least have a Picard storyline next episode dealing with the aftermath. Roddenberry also hated the conflict between the Picard brothers as he believed that type of interpersonal conflict wouldn't exist in the future... like... what?? Family is a very strong episode and actual catharsis for Picard's trauma. But it could have been even stronger if the producers had recognized that after such an insane pair of episodes that all the characters would need at least one episode to deal with it the aftermath! I would love to have seen Riker having to think about the fact that he had tried to kill his Captain, who was in the end rescued and was not beyond saving. Geordi overworking himself and not sleeping and having an eventual breakdown trying to make the Enterprise Borg-proof. Not to mention the consequences on the Federation itself, since they lost dozens of ships in their fleet and thousands of personnel. This is something DS9 did better - actions generally had far reaching consequences. TNG was way too happy to return to the status quo.
13:50 The reason you had that "Is Riker going to kill Locutus and stay captain" cliff-hanger is specifically BECAUSE Patrick Stewart had ended his three year contract and hadn't renegotiated something new by the time they filmed the episode they had no idea if he was coming back. He'd started with a three year contract and obviously the first two years of that were not the best. In fact he's since said that when he signed on his agent promised him it would be a short job and get cancelled by season three just like the original series. It was the changing of the showrunners and writers and the vast improvements of season 3 (plus a pay rise) that finally talked him into coming back for another 4 years. The result was that when they shot that scene in Best of Both Worlds part 1 they had NOT written a script or even an outline for part 2 and had no idea whether to plan for Picard to be in it, even as a guest star. There was every chance from season 4 onwards Picard would be dead, Riker would be Captain and Shelby would have been inserted as a series regular in Jonathon Frakes former position as he became the new lead for the franchise. It's also why Best of Both Worlds Part 1 was the Riker episode setting him up as possible replacement. Best of Both Worlds part 2 was the "lets pull together to save Earth AND Picard" episode and ending on restoring the status quo.
Makes me wonder how the show could've looked if Stewart decided to go. I quite liked Shelby's character, and the shakeup of the command structure would've been quite interesting to see.
Yes Frakes does not have the “charm” of Stewart. If they had gone without Stewart the show would have been different. I dare to say it could have been better. At least when they went to movies the character wouldn’t have changed like Stewart’s did. TV Picard was less “hands on” than movie Picard. When they did movies Stewart had to do more action. Captain Riker would have been more fun to watch. But actually I like how it all worked out. Riker was never going to get the big chair on Enterprise.
I've also seen from this comment section that the head writer was also debating whether he'd stay after Season 3, and that influenced all the cornered positions the characters ended up in by the end of Part 1.
4 parter, also wont be complete without knowing that everyone in "Family" died horribly in a fire making that amazing episode completely fucking pointless
"Measure of a Man" always bothered me, because Maddox argued that Data was Starfleet property, just like the ship's computer - but nobody seemed to have thought of the very obvious fact that Starfleet does not enroll ships' computers in Starfleet Academy, nor does it appoint them ranks. Therefore, since Starfleet already did do so with Data, it already confirmed 'personhood' on him decades ago.
what about Lore; he wasn't recognized as a person by starfleet ? Data could have sent his disassembled brother to Maddox for study (and maybe fix his evil tendencies) Data had so little faith in Maddox, he was either afraid Maddox would irreparably damage his precious, evil brother or that Lore would be too difficult for anyone but Data to contain.
Imo the most overrated TNG episode, and a terrible gateway to newcomers. I really like it, but for characters' traits, not plot. As in, it only works its magic when you're already infatuated with the gang.
I’ll be real, I’m just getting started on TNG. Idk what I’m talking about. That being said, I think they could make the argument that in this very rare case, a computer would be sent through an academy if it was considered valuable for the federation for said computer to learn alongside humans?
“Schisms” is a favourite that scared the crap out of me as a kid. The scene where Crusher discovers Riker’s arm has been removed and then reattached still creeps me out.
Same here. I remember having to turn it off midway when they got to the part with the crewmembers trapped halfway between the floor because it scared me so much.
Same here! "Schisms" gave me nightmares. At the time that show aired I had this irrational fear that aliens were going to abduct me (Yeah, I was a weird kid....) So this episode just happened to play on my worst fears at the time. I remember I was so freaked out my dad slept in a chair in my room just to calm me after the show. (I was around 5 or 6 at the time I believe.)
Lissbirds that was Data's Day iirc. There's a very similar scene in Schisms though where they find a crewman with all of his blood replaced with a resin glue or some shit. It's equally disturbing.
Funny story about The Best of Both Worlds: Dad was a military man and went to war between the two episodes (The Gulf). He was not scared about leaving the family, or dying in the war, he was pissed because he was gonna miss the second episode.
He told Rich there would be 3 parts. But when they're done with part 2, he's going to signal Jay lock the doors and force Rich to watch Discovery again.
I legitimately fall asleep to this every night because nothing makes me fall asleep faster than two old men passionately talking about something they love that I have never seen. Thanks RLM!!!
Rather like another of your commenters, I actually want to listen to it but at night in bed when the phone is charging - and hang my sleep. By some strange law of the universe, though, I do fall asleep nearly every single time. By now of course I'm exploiting this to actually fall asleep at night, like yourself, but I still at heart really want to see it all.
0:03:02 The Best of Both Worlds (Parts 1 and 2) 0:20:59 Mike and Rich talk about common trends in Star Trek TNG 0:25:08 The Measure of a Man 0:30:16 The Drumhead 0:40:46 Deja Q 0:47:45 Tapestry
They listed "The Drumhead?" Oh my. That is easily one of TNG's worst episodes. "The Measure of a Man" ain't much better. These guys don't deserve the time of day. They're picking episodes pseudo-intellectuals would pick as to appear smart.
Michael Burnham makes us have fond memories of those ST:NG "Wesley Crusher saves the ship" episodes. Picard on ST:P makes us have fond memories of Star Trek: Discovery.
@@SidneyBroadshead Exactly. Remember when Star Trek had science advisors to make sure what they were talking about is plausible? I think they were gone by the time Voyager filmed.
"Stop crying Tilly, we have to repolarize the field of the tachyon emission dish before the nebulonic cirrhosis effect reaches critical" *Michael walks in and taps the computer console six times. The spatial anomaly returns to normal and every white man in the Alpha Quadrant dies painfully*
I think the editor was trying to capture his face looking at the camera but Rich kept changing which camera he was looking at so...this was the end result lol
@@mkocinema2012 was, is, whatever! It's like saying a dog with diarrhea has only _just begun_ voiding its bowels. The first squirts are still awful lol
I was going to make a post on the RLM subreddit about this. I’d love him and Josh to talk about The Return and possibly dive deeper into the original 2 seasons than what they did on the Fire Walk With Me re:View. Also just more David Lynch stuff in general. Talk about his weird RU-vid channel!!!
@@notyou8716 Really? A disease that has disproportionately affected poor and minority communities is "thinning the herd" of stupid people? Really? Maybe you should get thinned out.
Oh baby, let's get this going. It's nice to know they finally caved to "JUST PUT MIKE AND RICH IN A ROOM AND MAKE THEM TALK ABOUT STAR TREK THEY LIKE."
RLM, are you guys reading these comments? Seriously, start a podcast or patreon videos or weekly episodes here on youtube for TNG and DS9. The fan base is seriously here for this. I'd pay to hear two old men with paper drone on about Star Trek.
I just thought of something. I think they recognize the lines in the sand and are avoiding burning out too fast on it all. There are only so many episodes to talk about. I say give them time.
It always makes me emotional when Picard chooses to die rather than be a man who lived a life without passion at the end of Tapestry. I also don't think it was a dream sequence at all. Q was paying back Picard for helping him when he was mortal, by teaching Picard a lesson about himself. I think the more interesting question is whether Q stopped Picard from dying, or if he just chose a moment when Picard thought death was imminent to play this game. I think it was the former. It's not completely unselfish either. Q knows Picard see him as the antithesis of himself, but Picards younger self had a lot of Q like qualities, by getting Picard to accept his younger self, he is also getting Picard to accept and understand him. This is my favourite episode. It also contains one of the best Picard burns "No... I am not dead. Because I refuse to believe that the afterlife is run by you. The universe is not so badly designed"
I love that it loops back to Picard laughing as he gets stabbed. It provides a reason that maybe he's laughing at Q actually having taught him a valuable life lesson.
I watched the entire TNG series, every week live when it came out. I remember my home town had a big basketball tournament coming up my sister was involved in and even the hometown coach made sure there were no practices scheduled for the premier of Best of Both Worlds part two. It was a major event in our household.
The original contract for the actors in TNG only ran for three years - so they could have easily written Picard off during Best of Both Worlds. If memory serves, even the writers didn't know if Patrick Stewart would be back when they wrote part 1 of that episode.
Yeah it is interesting Patrick Stewart was not considered a hip actor back in late season 3, it was the old guy running the enterprise, so the magazine talked about the possibility of Ricker running the ship, on the producers part it was a smart move so Stewart couldn't ask for a huge pay bump, same with the rest of the cast, as they could be replaced at any time or killed off, they had done both by yr 3
That “ryker asking questions” segment is eery foreshadowing for when he did the beyond belief show and started every episode by asking a silly question
Is it possible this comment is true? Yes. It's true. You're right, It's fact. You're right. You are right. Yes, it was. It happened. You're right again.
If you haven't slowed down the vids of Frakes' Beyond Belief openings to .5 speed and imagined you're listening to a drunk, you haven't ever truly laughed hard
To the point about the Borg being set up in season 1, that was actually the plan. But the writers strike happened. Originally The Borg were supposed to premiere Season 2, and "Best of Both Worlds" was supposed to cliffhanger end season 2. So not only did the writers strike impact those plans, but it also slashed the budget to the point where the season 2 finale came, they were so out of money for the season that the network actually insisted they do a clip show to reduce costs... so that awful "Shades of Grey" episode was actually Paramount's fault.... when we could have (and should have) had a much better season than we got. Ironically, some of the best eps to come out of that season were because they were forced to get outside writers. "Measure of a Man" for instance was written by a lawyer, not a Hollywood writer. Her very first screenplay I believe, and she absolutely NAILED it. Sometimes you just stumble onto pure gold.
I'm almost positive there were hints dropped in season 1 or 2 that Lore either created the Borg or knew about them and went to join them, which is kinda corroborated by the whole Borg cult thing that happens later. I can't remember exactly what he says but he basically describes the Borg to Data and asks him to join him. I'm a little shaky on my early TNG knowledge, I usually start with season 3.
@@ThePhobicSuperior No, the Borg were originally designed to be hive mind insects. A enemy so alien and so strong, that the Federation would have needed to work together with the Romulans to beat them. But that design was way to expensive so they switched to Cyborgs (very en vogue back then) and the Romulan involvement was slashed with the short season 2 because of the writers strikes.
I would be so happy if they made an entire series of episodes like this for all the older Trek shows. Hearing them talk about the good era of Star Trek is one of my favorite things on the internet.
Mike: "This episode of Star Trek reminds me of another episode of earlier Star Trek". It has come full circle. Thank you guys for that, it is fantastic
This is why RLM/Mike/Rich/whatever for more than a decade are among the very best things the internet has ever offered. Irresistible and untouchable. Plus, Rich laughing is everything😂
Best of Both Worlds: I remember watching this live on TV as a boy with my dad. We had watched just about every episode of TNG up to that point. We were ABSOLUTELY RIVETED watching the episode. It got to the cliff hanger ending, and said To Be Continued, and both me and my dad were destroyed. I couldn't believe we actually had to wait ALL SUMMER to see Part 2. It was the greatest moment of TV I've ever experienced, as far as narrative climatic stories that engrossed me totally. What an amazing show!
A network show would have a team of researchers digging through episodes to find excerpts that match, and illustrate, the points that the hosts are making. You know that Mike pulled all these out of his own head in 5 minutes.
. I remember when I was in university and I watched “Measure of a Man” in 1996 first time and I kept rewatching it. (I didn’t had that many episodes at the time I used to record them on my VCR from the Jordanian TV channel (I was in Syria at the time) which we were able to sometimes get good quality Second channel despite the goverment attempt to distort the incoming tv broadcast (politics😒)) in total I think I watched maybe 50% of TNG episodes. My dad and I have very different tastes in movies/TV but I wanted him to watch at least one episode which was “the measure of a man” After he watched it he said:”wow! He’s a human not a robot.” I think it’s a great episode to show to anyone even if they don’t like science fiction. It’s a moral tester episode
I swear to god this hour felt like two minutes. It's inspiring listening to you talking so passionately about real Star Trek. I loved your take on "Best of both worlds" about Riker and ambition. This video made me appreciate even more the originality and quality of TNG. Also loved your choices, I love the Drumhead and Deja Q too. Keep it going guys, you represent the true spirit of Star Trek that has lately been so disrespected. Waiting forward to part two :)
I agree completely. On top of that, it just makes me feel sad. I had never seen TNG or DS9, and I watched both all the way through over the last two years. To know we'll probably never get something like that ever again - science fiction that is so very human, well-thought out, and aspirational -, and to be reminded of it through this wonderful and thoughtful analysis, can't help but make me sad.
@@ShockinglyLiterate So true. It seems that drama and action have taken the place of intelligence and reflection. Nowadays audiences are treated as stupid children and I have got used to it but in Star Trek it's really insulting. Star Trek TNG was a show made by smart people for smart people (or at least for people who didn't like Star Wars so much) Now we have STD and STP, shows made by greedy and ignorant people that make the ferengi appear like f**ing Einsteins in comparison.
I know these lines are coming, but I bust out laughing every time. It always gets me. The only other thing like that is the turtle and horses in "Blue Shadows" scene in "3 Amigos."
Jesus. I’ve seen “The Drumhead” a million times, but probably not for 15 years or so. I actually almost have tears from the clip at 33:27 when Picard says “What you’re doing here is unethical.” He’s soo good! The writing was amazing! I feel so grateful that I grew up being able to watch this level of quality!
Drumhead -- though a great episode -- is partially stolen from the McCarthy Trials -- specifically the Joe Welch confrontation, where McCarthy accused Welch of harboring a Communist (one of his junior staff, Fred Fisher, who had joined a lawyers' organization with some loose socialist ties) -- at the end of which, Welch erupted "Have you, at least, no sense of decency, sir," and castigated McCarthy for attempting to smear a young man's reputation as witch-hunt ammo. Doesn't make the TNG story any less compelling, but the 1954 Welch-McCarthy inspiration is even better, and well worth watching.
The Borg story actually started in Season 1 with the episode "The Neutral Zone" ... Romulan and Federation colonies scooped off the surface. Glad you guys mentioned it. :)
so weird, I now remember this happening but I was under the impression the Borg were in a far out sector never seen by anyone other than Guinans people and was sure the Borg didn't know humans or romulans existed until they chased the enterprise after Q shot them out... I know the outposts were far out, but I thought the Borg were way past unexplored area
We (the audience) benefited from the writer's strike and the Roddenberry-Maizlish-Berman power shift -- their original arc was Borg-ice-cream-scoop the colonies, Enterprise encounters Borg, multiple crewmembers abducted, Picard + Data fused into a single amalgam Borg-body (yes, really) -- the way things worked out, with the one-year delay (and Q Who) (and more nuanced Patrick Stewart) was much better.
TNG's success is primarily about the atmosphere. As stated previously by Mike, It is a world you would like to live in. Gene's vision of the future was so deeply optimistic; it shows and that helps us to feel positive about the future. Feels good man.
