Written and performed by Dan Olson Twitter: @FoldableHuman - / foldablehuman UPDATE React World has been scuttled - medium.com/@FineBrothersEnt/a... Archive of the React World FAQ - imgur.com/xosqEa0
+Jim Sterling He's missing the point that Fine Bros. can't seem to portray. It's all about DMCA. Question for you Jim. How long have you been on youtube? I've been here late 2007. :) P.S. *sarcasm* I'm looking to trademark Ianformed just to mess up Ian Hecox. lol
+Jim Sterling It certainly is a pretty cohesive, clear, concise summary. And the Fail Bros? They really are failing. And thank you for bringing up this explanation Jim, and God? I thank you... for Jim Fucking Sterling, Son.
Your discussion around 5:55 onward of how Fine Bros are muddling business relationships & creator-fan relationships is spot on. The only positive comments in the first React World announcement video were fans saying things like "Wow I'm11 can I still take part in this!??" I'm not saying it's impossible for an 11 year old to make good content. But in theory the only reason you'd want to buy into React World brand identity--both as a content 'consumer' and as a content creator--is because it provides some guarantee of consistency/quality. This is like Burger King handing out BK logos to every kid with a lemonade stand. I've read a lot of outraged takes on the React World situation but I really have to commend you because this is one of the most well thought-out I've seen.
+LilDeuceDeuce But their own website says that they are not going to let you use their brands or logos, even if you requisition a license, so comparison to franchising is N/A.
+Sir Spamalot Which leads to the question of why would someone want to be a part of this then? Their logos and brand are probably the only things that would get people to join up considering the built in audience that entails.
+LilDeuceDeuce "This is like Burger King handing out BK logos to every kid with a lemonade stand" This is like Burger King handing out BK logos to every kid with a burger stand and taking half of their money because they can say it's Burger King.
+Sir Spamalot I'm basing it on this FAQ on their website that says they'll give you access to their logos/branding/animation intro packages: www.finebrosent.com/reactworldfaq/
+LilDeuceDeuce When looking at the comments I wasn't expecting to see Lildeucedeuce. I have no further comment, it's just nice to see the bigger youtubers behaving like normal youtubers.
I like this guy, he actually explained it well in detail instead of screaming in anger for 10mins about how angry he is about the Finebros like most people.
"Congratulations, that's racketeering." Now that I think about it, the whole REACT WORLD concept definitely falls into the realm of "protection" offered by mob bosses.
+hellenjane (Gabatha Productions) Too bad ratings are disabled for his videos. It is going to keep a lot of people from investing in a 10min video. It doesn't make any sense to me, I think he does a great job and doesn't have any reason to worry about dislikes. EDIT: Now he has likes/dislikes enabled which is great. It lets people know the video has support before they invest time into it and it gives him the praise he deserves for making good videos. Thumbs up from me.
Being originally from Venezuela I have the perfect example of the real world of what you are saying by "actually not protecting it". In Venezuela it is common to park on the street because there are no parkimeters and there are not enough private parking lots. So far this is just like a regular non-downtown street on any city. The problem is that the minute you park your car some guy will touch your windows and ask you for money for he to protect your car. If you pay him ( and it is like ten times the money you would pay in a private parking) then you are free from thugs opening your car. If you don't pay him then his very own gang will crush your windows, scratch the paint job and steal your stereo. Sometimes even the tires, as tires are Really Expensive in Venezuela. When you return, you will see the guy sitting in his chair next to your car and he will then unapologetically tell you you have it deserved because you didn't pay him to "protect" his car. And the police will never step into this because the parking spaces on street are gang-controlled and they in raw number are more people than police officers. So you have to either pay the guy YOU KNOW is a gang members to "protect your car" meaning he will not rob you or be sure you will probably not have a car to return to.
I know this is a very old comment, but I just wanted to tell you that exact same thing happens in Argentina, and the police doesn't intervene because the gangs likely either work for the police or bribe them.
Yes, that's exactly what he compared it to. The technical word for that kind of protection scheme (most stereotypically seen with gangs and small businesses which will be smashed up if they fail to pay 'protection' money) along with everything else in the same general category is Racketeering.
To give some context, this was relevant in 2016 when the Fine Brothers made their announcement. I think Dan forgot something about it. It was the last gasp of the attempts at a multi-tuber thing (Think That Guy with the Glasses/Channel Awesome, Normal Boots, and such) and had already come after just about all of those were either failing (thanks to your support from Patreon) or had long since faded into irrelevancy (the two that spun off from TGWTG, everything NB produced except the Grumps). It was out and out crowdsourcing content, at a time when the whole idea was literally dying. we didn't know it in 2016, but the whole thing they were banking on was only about 6 months from being buried, but if we had paid attention we would have seen it coming with things like the main source for Channel Awesome being nothing more than an over glorified aggregation site. All in all, like their capitalizing on react videos, they were too little, too blunt, and too late.
+BrotherAlpha While there aren't penalties for false DMCA claims on copyright grounds, the DMCA does *not* cover trademark claims - and what Fine Bros filed for is a trademark, not a copyright. In fact, if they use the DMCA claim system to attempt copyright takedowns based on the React trademark, they are opening themselves to significant penalties.
+BrotherAlpha Honestly, that's a valid defense. The DMCA itself is a lumbering mess, and with almost two decades of legal precedents, case law, and so on, it's very easy to get confused and lost.
+AislinnBMln But what about the system RU-vid have implemented to facilitate the DMCA claims? Can trademark owners use it to flag things? I suspect that it can be because it seems to be VERY flawed and badly automated. And if so the legal difference may be there but the practical difference might not be. I don't know enough about the RU-vid implementation to say for sure though.
I took off my headphones for a minute to answer my phone and when I put them back on all I heard was: "Given the Two Girls One Cup example I already mentioned." 10/10
+69Zelmarked69 Haha that's what I've been thinking. Still, what the bros are doing is too shady to let slip, even if we have to defend those weird reaction video making people.
+69Zelmarked69 Haha that's what I've been thinking. Still, what the bros are doing is too shady to let slip, even if we have to defend those weird reaction video making people.
+Michael Croes And its still going down. Not as fast as a few days ago, but still going down. im also wondering how many of the subs they have are from dead accounts. IE: People that lost there password and just made a new account then resubscribed on the new one. Or dont go to youtube anymore.
Sadly it's back past 14 million, but the hit was still enormous. If World never happened, they could have been at 15 or 15 and a half by this point in time. Their sister channels see surprisingly few subs though, especially since REACT has a lot of their better content.
This is, by far, the most reasoned and well thought out explanation of this whole fiasco that I've seen, so far. Thank you very much for taking the time to calmly explain the difference between concept, format and brand. Not that it matters, but I think that you and I basically arrived at the same place -- but you're much more eloquent about it. I can't thank you enough.
As many others have said, this is the best explanation I've seen. It sums up perfectly how React World would have benefited no one except the Fine Bros.
So far the one good thing that came about the whole Finebro's fiasco is that I've found allot of smaller RU-vid channels such as yours that i found very interesting and made me want to subscribe to them such as yours. Keep up the good work i thoroughly enjoyed this, very informative.
This is the first video I've found that explains the situation further than "her her you can't react to thing!!" Great analysis and thanks for the video!
Dan, I just found your channel and it is great. Keep it up so that I can keep learning things that are actually interesting to know. You'll have 200k subs by this summer. Thanks for the hard work!
This is excellent, spectacullar and pristine explanation from a person that understands something so deeply he can deconstruct it and thoroughly explain it to others without missing a single comma of a situation. Amazing...
That was an awesome breakdown. I've been following this for a while but my background isn't in Licensing/Brands/etc it's in Science and Engineering. This really layed out what's going to be happening here.
Your videos are so fucking amazing, as well as your tweets. Since you use facts and cover interesting topics, of course you get attacked by people. Good on you for keeping up and covering these sorts of topics anyway.
This is spelled out so well! You did an awesome job discussing this, and I agree with you 100%. You can't brand a concept. It'd be like Cartoon Network trying to claim the rights to " being station that plays cartoons". They can certainly license the specific shows and presentation format, but they aren't going to stop Nickelodean or Warner Brothers from playing cartoons. Well done sir! I applaud your intelligence and insight!
You, my good sir, are brilliant. This is definitely one of the most informative video on the subject Ive seen so far. Very intelligent commentary - something refreshing to find on youtube.
Of all the videos I have seen as a reaction to the Fine Brothers story this here has hit all marks:It has an apropiate tone,It lays out all facts in a best to neutral wayIt is thinking throuh the consequences of the issues at handIt is presented in an enjoyable and entertaining way Thank you for publishing it.Well done
This is one of the best channels on this website. I learn so much from watching you. I feel like I gain something from watching your videos. To me that is what makes a good channel.
Wow. A lot of this could be applied to most MCNs on RU-vid. They used to be a little bit hard to get into them and because of that you might actually get some support. But then they open the floodgates to everyone and suddenly tens of thousands of people were in many MCNs. Suddenly you couldn't contact them personally, the only service that they then provided you was taking a portion of your money.
I was subscribed to a bunch of B-and-C-tier let's players back in 2014 (what can I say, I was a weirdo shut-in teen) and I remember watching collaborative videos where a group of them would talk about their Machinima contracts finally running out. A lot of them revamped their channels around that time, new intro/outro, channel redesign, expansion of content and whatnot. They were set free. It was a bit surreal to watch.
wow, standing ovation. I know you can't see it but I am giving out one. Excellent job on laying out everything and explaining to people what it really is.
This is unique in the world of "react to finebros" video fad in that it not only says what it does but how it does it and why it does it and how it will affect those who do it. This is also noticeably different from the videos filled with insults and expletives, no matter how creative and amusing those are. This is a high quality video with insight into this process. I applaud you.
Looking back all these years later, I find it kind of fascinating that the fucking Fine Bros. of all things made such a sizable portion of RU-vid-based content creators stand up as one man and go "This is not okay, we need to address this.". The only things I can think of to come even remotely close to this kind of universal disgust in RU-vid circles would be the 2018 Rewind (which barely counts) and Doug's "the Wall"-review, and with Channel Awesome having been garbage for years by that point the reactions to that particular trainwreck were much less surprising in their near universal contempt.
That a great explanation. I think you've given the most rational (and unemotional) and yet compelling explanation in this topic. I'm not affected by this but appreciate someone like you taking such a clear stance.
Their only real crime is being greedy. I don't think they were planning to start a dictatorship over ALL reaction videos, so all the flak they're getting in kinda undeserving. But really i'm glad they're getting all the hate for it, it's about time youtubers with tens of millions of subscribers realize they're not invincible, and they CAN lose subs.
I wouldn't say being greedy is an "only". Greed is pretty much is the prime source of any immoral behaviour. The result is straight up free riding on smaller youtube channels who gain nothing from it and need that money a whole lot more than they do.
They were literally trying to do racketeering and/or rip off their fans for profits. Saying they were "just being greedy" as if that excuses anything is extremely dumb. Just try using that dumb argument with any form of theft and see how dumb it is. I know it's an old comment but it's just SUCH a stupid point made to relativize the potentially harmful actions of people with power (let's be real having over 10 million subscribers gives you more reach than some countries' national broadcast networks) and it pisses me off.
the extra sick part of it is its about ecouraging their fans (probably skews younger) to start making youtube content, or if they already are, making this stuff, then treating them someone seriously by signing a contract with them, making them feel like theyre being smart and 'adult', and using that whole feeling to take away part of their already (most likely) measly earning.
I was nodding my head throughout the video, I resonate with everything you said. I didn't think these guys were so greedy, but after watching their video that is now removed, I fully understhood what they are trying to do, they got tired of making so much content, but also got greedy because any amount of money is not enough for a lot of people, the more money you get the more money you want. So they thought they're being clever and tried to exploit people. Any content people make similar to theirs, they get a cut, some small amount of money from here, some from there, with so many people doing it, they'd be making a lot of money without putting in any effort. But people weren't as stupid and naive as they thought, so they had to cancel everything, otherwise they'd be loosing a lot of money, I'm pretty sure they didn't back up because they care about people, they were just sacred of loosing their subscribers thus loosing money. Myself, I unsubscribed and will not subscribe again, not because that's what a lot of people are doing right now, but because I find them disgusting and greedy.
EVERYONE needs to see this video. Perfectly explained. I hope this reaches as many people as possible and makes an impact in fighting against Fine Bros Entertainment and their disgusting practices.
