Mk262 Cloning - pt 5 - Varget 

shoots a 0.417" at 100, "man that was almost a good one"... lol

Awesome man. Your The best reloading teacher on RU-vid. Honest. Thanks for all u do.

Just tried this out on a 20 in WOA rifle length gas sdm upper 2792 with 24.5. No point of impact shift from black hills to reloads. Lake city brass. Amazing thank you for yiur work. I hope RU-vid doesn't try to close this channel with their new regulations.

Can't get enough of this series! Looking forward to the 8208XBR results. Keep up the great work.

You'll really like the 7 1/2 primers. They're basically magnums and very consistent!

I love this series! I love the video format: load, shoot. Why is this so dang interesting? I LOVE IT. Keep up the solid work.

I understand the point of the series and I think I've watched every video you've made on it three times now. lol. But you can't argue with those groups. I've loaded a ton of Varget and as they say when you hear the crunch that just means it's working, it loves to be compressed. I settled on 22.6 of AR Comp and the 77 grain Sierra Tipped Match King and currently loading five hundred of them in Nickel cases. I don't shoot ( Long ) range per say and hedge ball accurate at two hundred and fifty yards is good enough for me. The Tip adds length and must be seated deeper for magazine length so 22.6 is still compressed slightly. Shoots to my standard POI and that is an advantage also. I don't own a chronograph so I have no idea of the speed I'm getting, but I'll sure take accuracy over speed anytime. You certainly found a winner in that department with Varget.

Great video, still hoping you're going to have a comeback session or 2 with your fellow reloaders sometime...😢 Miss ya Champ

Very very good shooting JRB. The groups and velocity is about what I was expecting with Varget. Overall looks like some great loads, but not a good candidate for Mk262 cloning. Looking forward to ARComp, 8208 and Tac. Looking around the internet many people have successfully cloned the Mk262 with 8208 and Tac, but as you know this round is VERY hot from BlackHills and your gonna have to load Hot and above published Max while checking for pressure signs as you keep moving up above maximum for most all powders you test with in this series. This is a great series and a round that most people shooting AR’s love. When this series is finished your data will be the go to on this topic. Awesome stuff JRB. Thanks again JRB for another great Video. Thumbs up.

Outstanding and thank you for this series and your rigor in this series. I have learned a lot about load development and shoot NRA and CMP high power with my WOA A4 NM upper. This helps a lot. Thx! Fletchman

Just an awesome reloading channel! Keep up the great work. I have watched and learned a lot from them.

Great testing! I'm glad you're sharing this information. Since you asked for ideas, would you consider doing the proverbial ladder test? Perhaps at two hundred yards. Also a test with the silencer and a test with out the silencer shot from the same barrel. Keep up the good work!

Hodgdon 4350 showed the least deviation over a wide difference in temperature when compared to other powders. It's worth a consideration.

Lyman 49th has the max Varget load for this bullet as 25.0 grains, and states it's a compressed charge and pressure is 44,500 CUP. I still don't think you'll achieve the velocity you're seeking, but if you just wanted "written load data" as an excuse to continue, there it is...

Subscribed. Can’t wait to see the magic combination that rules all.

Great groups! Regarding the velocities I saw similar results when shooting Varget with 75 gr. Hornady HPBT. Where velocities actually stayed the same or slightly lower when increasing charge levels. Definitely strange! I have just started trying Varget with a few different cartridges so I really don't know what to expect, but so many people talk so highly of it I wanted to give it a try.

I use varget for my loads and with a 77smk at 25.0grs of powder I am getting .5moa accuracy at 2700fps. With 25.2 the groups opens up just a touch but my velocity is about 2725

I'd love to see you push varget a little higher and even give H355 a shot. Just for the fact it's gold with the 55gr loads. I'd like to see how it actually does with the 77gr. Might be interesting.

Enjoy the Videos! That white oak barrel is AWESOME!

Johnny... I plan on pushing Varget higher. I have followed this series closely (great content BTW). I have had very similar results with my own attempt at 262 clone with Varget so I will send you pictures and data of my results. I was using CCI 400 primers though and my 77SMKs don't have the canuler but I will try going into the mid 25 grain charges....my goal out of my 18inch is to get as close to 2750 as I can.

Hey Johnnie -Greetings from Idaho - If you ever get some ADI 223 brass hang on to it, as it is excellent. Picked some up from my local range, wish I had more!

I did a ladder test with 75 gr hpbt hornady match and varget and had a flat spot at 24.2 and 24.4 and I also had a lower velocity at 23.6 grains then I did at 23.4 grains. That's pretty interesting! I shoot an 18" Odin works DMR barrel so the results seem very similar!

I guess you can safely say that the Noslers will shoot now. I am interested to see if you put a CCI 41 in your highest varget load what the statistics would do. Maybe at least 10 shot samples for the primer test? I have been a little surprised that your SD's are running as high as they are, at least with varget anyway. Like you say with varget full case = low SD. How crunchy were the top loads?

The Nosler bullets seemed to start working for you when you switched to the new box with cannelure? Maybe they are built to Military spec and not Nosler spec lol.

I use velocity plateaus when loading for my match 308 and 6.5 guns. using that data alone has produced very accurate loads for me.

loaded up some 77gr tipped Match Kings with 23.3 grains of Varget and overall length of 2.246 and the Remington 7 1/2 primer and Norma brass. 10 shot group average velocity was 2648. groups were in the .75 inch range at 100. the results are still not what we are looking for but the 100fps extra velocity over your results is interesting. I assume it's the difference in the SMK vs the TSMK length. No pressure signs.

Good luck brother on your scouting trip hope you fill that tag soon

My "go to" competition ammo for highpower shooting is 25 grains of Reloader 15 or Varget under a 77 grain Nosler CC. Shoots 2700 feet per second in my RRA national match rifle. Winchester and CCI BR primers.

thank you

I'm surprised that you haven't included Reloder 15 in your 223 loads. It's my go to powder with heavier bullets in my AR. It fills the case well and works great with my 60 grain Vmax. It goes 3200 with good accuracy. I haven't tried 2520 yet but I certainly will. I have good results with slow powders. I use the Rem 7 1/2 to light them and they've given me no reason to experiment with other primers. Good work. You're one of the few that actually knows his shit😉

I think you're Shooting has improved as well man all these killer groups lately has been awesome, I'm messing around with the 75s I have looking at other powders and charges as well I will be putting up some videos next week checking them out

love the vids as someone who is just starting to reload these save me a lot of headache and pain. thanks and when I get paid I'll drop a fiver as I want this load for my ar

+Johnny’sreloadingbench do you have any work up videos with 69gr SMK and possibly with varget?

I just built a SPR with a 18” LaRue 1/8 twist Stealth barrel. I’m not happy with 69gr SMK’s but 77gr’s showed some promising results. I just ordered 500 so I can start the load development. I have Varget, TAC and RL15. I’ve been doing the MOA all day challenge (5 shot groups, 5 targets), I can do it but barely. What powder gave you the absolute best groups using the 77 SMK’s?

Is this 223 or 556 being fired from a 223 wydle or 5.56 chamber. Ive been wanting to go a box listed maxs as i have a crap tone of 223 starline brass and a 223 wylde chamber. I heard you can push 223 harder than the listed max if its in the said chambers

Are you using cannelured bullets?

2520 is an excellent overall powder with a mag primer at the right temperature hot (not desert hot) conditions; however, The burn rate and 2520 are very close? If you're going mag primers, when will you day view superformace and rutumbo, especially in 6our 300 mag and other shooters you have. Rutumbo is used in 6.5 and 6.8 and cartridges that size or larger? Just curious.....

Thinking maybe R15 is your ticket. Just saying. Been using it for years with Nosler 77's with awesome results

JRB from where iam sitting the best group was with the Sierra and 23.6 Gr's of Varget, because the velocity was higher and the SD was lower. Still over all you had tightest groups with the Sierra and Accurate 2520

Johnny, I have a custom bolt action tack driver that shoots an 80 grain Sierra HPBT into the end of a pop can (less than 2") at 500 meters using 24.5 grains of VV N140. I know you can't use this bullet but I'm sure you'd get good results with this powder.

were you completely out of case capacity? Seems like a lot of people are loading to around 25.0 or even 25.2 but maybe that's not with lake city brass?

Johnny, I am an avid follower of your testing and always look forward to your results and testing analysis to see how they compare to my own testing and conclusions. Happy to report that they are very much in agreement. I am always looking forward to what you fellows whom I respect boil it down to as far as most important things to concentrate on at ranges of 100 to 300 yards since the great majority of fellow shooters and reloaders that I know evaluate their reloads at 100 yards and seldom over 300 yards. Always looking for what experienced shooters deem most important factors to control especially at the 100 yard range. What would you rank the top 5 variables to be and then maybe some of the least important? I have some kinda strong inclinations - what are yours? Best regards, John

What about Reloder 15?

I have the same RCBS hand priming tool, best one I've ever had. Reloading becomes addicting, I;ll be reloading then decide I'll quit after the next cartridge and then I wind up finishing off 100 of them. I find my primer pocket swager invaluable with reloading military cases.

Looking forward to 8208xbr as well. Worked up some simple loads with this and the tiped 77gr matchkings and was very happy with results. Wanna see what you are able to do with it and what it's full potential can be!

Have you noticed any change in groups with and without the chrono hanging on the muzzle? It seems like it would change barrel harmonics a bit.

That 18” WOA barrel is sloooooow. I’m running a stainless 20” proof barrel at 24.3gr Varget with 77 SMKs around 2750fps

My accuracy load for my AR is with 77gr Nosler and 24.5gr Varget. It’s a little slow compared to the black hills but man does it shoot

I have never had good luck with REM 7.5's in the velocity spread department.

I stopped using varget for heavier grain bullets (75-77gr). Good groups BUT since it's such a compressed load the seating die leaves a nasty ogive on the bullet that drives me nuts

Johnny I have to ask why you use those round Target stickers, I ask because using a target with a sharp right angle like a square and aiming at the corners gives a more refined aiming point and will help bring your groups down on the bad days or when your eyes are more fatigued just a little FYI but keep up the videos they are very informative and have helped me a lot with making powder choice for a given caliber.

What was the temp you shot this at and what is the capacity of a fired case? I'll run through quick load and do some verification on pressure for you.

I have the 18" White Oak SPR also. It's been a few months but I worked up a load using Berger 77 OTM, LC brass, CCI BR4, and 24.5 gn TAC. This load gives me 2715 ft/s and an SD of 11. I think Ramshot shows a max of 24.8. Definitely have to work up. Might try AR small rifle match primers too.

Tac will give you the best velocity with 77's imo. I run the 75's with 24grains tac and get @2730

I would think the 748 winchester powder would be a good one for what you are trying to do with these rounds

I can't get any velocity out of Varget. IMO it sucks for both 556 and 308. No idea why it's so popular.

I use a 12” drop tube and fit around 25-25.2. Quite compressed of course, could probably fit more using some sort of vibratory method to settle the powder even more. Just a thought

Good work brother

LC brass, rem 71/2 primers, 25.2 grains RL15, 77 gr SMK cannelured 2,720

I look through my local online classifieds for deals on components and I often see a generic white label with black writing called 5010. Maybe that's the military grade 556 powder

I just started reloading 223. The 1st ptimer I bought was Remington 6 1/2. 's later I found a sign at a sporting goods store to not use Remington 6 1/2 primers. I shot some didn't see any problems. What say you?

I believe Black Hills uses Winchester pretty much exclusively...?

What kind of scale is under powder trickler ?

Lyman Load Manual 49th Edition has 77 grain SMK at .223 Rem pressure, max load 25.0 grains at 2.260" oal

Best 5.56 round ever

FYI Ramshot TAC publishes 5.56 pressure loads for the 77 gr

Also, Enforcer ( same maker as Tac) instead of Tac is a good choice for many of curious applications, just my opinion.

ever loaded any 85.5gr Berger

hey I want to make a ar in something for mid to long range.. thinking 6.5 grendal or 224 val what do you think? it could b a deer gun in the 6.5 but the 224 not so much but would b fun to shoot at distance and have some chalange.. :)

You should get a box of Remington magnum primers and see how they compare.

Why so much concern about your velocity? it's not like it really matters your not shooting long distance your groups are awesome life is good.lol

It's always the fifth shot in the group that's gets me. Anyone can put 4 in one hole but 5 is rough. Lol

I’ve always used primer condition as my initial pressure indicator and pretty much disregarded ejector plunger marks. Am I wrong??

Good stuff.

I worked the ladder up with this load to 25.0 grains in my 18inch. Sent the results to Johnny on Instagram as well. Hopefully it provides useful information.

iv never seen you test accurate 2015. give it a shot sometime.

For 77gr use N-140 or RL-15 for best accuracy

Instead of trying to duplicate the 262 load, you should be looking to make one better and cheaper. My load seems to shot better than 262.

I use them exclusively on all small cartridges. My 6pPC loves them and My 6 BR loves them so why change.

H4895 is my favorite

Curious velocity results. I use 24.3gr of Varget for my Mk262 loads. I get consistent 2820+ fps from a 20" mil-spec barrel. I should buy a batch of the Blackhills. I thought my load was equivalent using a 20" barrel, but now I think I'm under Mk262 velocity!

Remington 7.5 magnum primers. Ears are probably what they ate using

Great Shooting!

That is nice, but you are far off the mark for Mk262 velocities . You are running SAAMI chamber pressures as best I can estimate. Nothing wrong with that, nice groups, nice brass preservation, but not NATO. You can find the Mk262 velocities by looking at your Black Hills factory ammo data.Loose primers in refurbished 1X LC NATO brass usually follows PPU and crimp ring removal. Just brush out the PP bottom, bump back the burr on the crimp ring just a smidge, and you are good to go.

8208 is 23.8 CCI 41 77 MK 2750 fps in 18” ADI load for MK262 Best accuracy at 23.3

try alliant pp 2000mr 24.9 - 25.4 with nosler 77 gr custom comp does well for me. in my 18''

Man the first group's in the .4 's are awesome, even if they are not speed demon's! I bet anyone shot with one cant tell you how fast it was going???...

@Johnny's reloading bench

I want to try this in my 20inch faxon barrel

u should of loaded 5.56 with tac u can get it up to 2900 fps

Wsr is what they use

Crank it up to 25.5 grains!

I was taught that if you are using a 20 grain case, you go up in .2 grain increments (10%), otherwise you might jump over the best load.

23.5 gr.Benchmark 77 smk...... 2800 out of 20"

24.0 grains of TAC with 77 grain NOS CCs 2750 from my 18" Mk12 Mod1. 24.0 grains of Varget give me 2640

Superb Accuracy. I can't give advice on the standard deviation, However, I am very impressed with the results that the Nosler bullets gave. Btw. IMR-4895 is Hotter than Hogsdons 4895. The IMR stands for "Improved Military Rifle". Not that you are some sort of Dumbass, However, I felt that it was worth saying.. That's all. Keep up the good work, Dave.

8208 XBR

WOW!!!!!

748

i know you mean be joke about get ps4 but are you get one