Moog Minitaur in 2022 - My favorite four patches

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🎹 The Moog Minitaur desktop bass synth is fantastic. Let’s go through four of my favorite patches for it.
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Опубликовано:

6 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 211

@krazywabbit Год назад

Firing up the moog model D app as that’s what’s in my toolbox. Thanks for the inspiration. Nicely demonstrated.

@synthseeker Год назад

The sprit of Bob is pleased. ;)

@rayderrich Год назад

Definitely a deep sound, and it must be great to just dial it in with those handsome knobs. Great demo!

@synthseeker Год назад

Thanks. Handsome knobs are KEY. :)

@jason.martin 7 месяцев назад

Sounds great ! loved the demo and sounds

@synthseeker 7 месяцев назад

Thank you kindly!

@haslo_ Год назад

Damn, I said you wouldn't make me GAS, and there you are, making me GAS! Lovely demonstration of an amazing synth!

@synthseeker Год назад

Sorry man, I’ve seen your rig…it’s getting tight!

@rexcellencemagee6729 4 месяца назад

I was checking out the specravox, I’m going to get one just for the pluck ability!

@synthseeker 4 месяца назад

Nice! Have fun! Share a video when you get it pluckin’!

@synkrotron Год назад

an interesting liitle desktop synth... thanks for demoing those patches Luke 👍

@synthseeker Год назад

Just playin’ and sharing. ;)

@synkrotron Год назад

@@synthseeker indeed 🙂

@TheSoulSynthesis Год назад

I love me some pant flap. I like the "cut the fluff - get right to it" attitude, it really is nice for informative videos. If anyone interested in such a mono synth but does not want to pay 500 to 1k for a sirin or Minitaur, the Dreadbox Typhon is also a fantastic alternative

@synthseeker Год назад

I do not disagree. ;)

@teddyjones3652 Год назад

Thanks mate

@TJ-bx5px Месяц назад

i LOVE that MOOG bass

@synthseeker Месяц назад

As do I! ;)

@dallas-cole Год назад

Pant flap is a hell of a term. Very nice.

@synthseeker Год назад

It’s fun to say too. :)

@AdamTheAd-vanc3d Год назад

That bass is a punchy and to the point. Those envelopes trim that bass tone like a fine meat. Gorgeous 😍

@synthseeker Год назад

Glad you liked it.

@AdamTheAd-vanc3d Год назад

@@synthseeker Its awesome, I've also been watching your New minimoog 2022 reissue vids aswell.

@synthseeker Год назад

Thanks! I hope you find more things you enjoy/can use in my back catalog!

@scottnelle Год назад

Wow, that sounds so good! Definitely moving to the top of my wishlist.

@synthseeker Год назад

What else is on your wishlist?

@scottnelle 11 месяцев назад

@@synthseeker An Arturia Minibrute 2s and a Novation Circuit Tracks, among many others. Got a Minitaur on the way, which is why I'm revisiting this video and just now seeing your comment! 🙂

@scottnelle 5 месяцев назад

@@jasonharrington7521 I have the Moog and the Novation now. Both are super cool! I'm on a short gear buying pause because I have so much to learn with the gear I have, but I'm still eying that Minibtute 2s and I almost bought one this month. The Circuit tracks is really fun but it's so different from my usual DAW based setup. I have a lot to learn!

@scottnelle 5 месяцев назад

@@jasonharrington7521 that's awesome! I have a Beatstep Pro and I'll try working that in some time! I love hardware step sequencing for creating new ideas, because my personal experience is so piano-roll-driven

@richardweston4493 11 месяцев назад

Big Bass Balls!!

@synthseeker 11 месяцев назад

Agreed. “Pant-flap!”

@jimigrok Год назад

nice - thanks for the demonstration

@synthseeker Год назад

Thanks for saying so!

@alexanderlane Год назад

Always thought it looked interesting and now I’m sure of it!

@synthseeker Год назад

Glad I could distract you! ;)

@Subtronik Год назад

Great demonstration of the base nature of the Minitaur.

@synthseeker Год назад

Thank you for the response!

@synthseeker Год назад

Hmmm, there is some clipping throughout...not sure where it crept in. Sorry gang. :(

@matturmy Год назад

it would be amazing if you could do a short video on how you were setup w/ ableton and the minitaur, and able to control the synth w/ Push2. Very cool! thanks for sharing, and I just subscribed @synthseeker

@synthseeker Год назад

I did a 60 second video on it earlier this week but I can try to elaborate. :)

@synthseeker Год назад

Welcome to the channel!

@matturmy Год назад

@@synthseeker thx!

@matturmy Год назад

@@synthseeker is there a link to that 60 sec video?

@synthseeker Год назад

@@matturmy I'm not sure how useful it is but here you go. I kind of did it as a joke. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-IDMTcMUdhmw.html

@kierenmoore3236 7 месяцев назад

Great! 😎👌🏼

@synthseeker 7 месяцев назад

Thanks! 👍

@JoeJohnston-taskboy Год назад

Killer!

@synthseeker Год назад

Thank you Joe. ;)

@vagueversatile 7 месяцев назад

Hi! Amazing sounds! I really like the last one. What are the main elements to duplicate it, playing with LFOs?

@synthseeker 7 месяцев назад

Osc1 is a sawtooth, Osc2 is in sync mode and the lfo is in random mode. The lfo is modulating both the filter frequency and Osc2 pitch. Then you can play around with the filter resonance. :)

@vagueversatile 7 месяцев назад

@@synthseeker thank you!!

@samprock Год назад

So stupid, can't remember why I returned Sirin :) Mighty synth with hefty sounds. Especially cool VST for automations!

@synthseeker Год назад

Agreed. I wish I had one!

@oquintero40 Месяц назад

wonderful sounds!!! I have a minitaur and been playing with it lately. Where you can get those minitaur patches?

@synthseeker 29 дней назад

They are linked in the comments. :)

@ryangregson3256 8 месяцев назад

Already have a Grandmother❤ but would love a Minitaur for dedicated bass.

@synthseeker 8 месяцев назад

They are nice, but you can also use software versions! I haven't tried the latest vst bass synth from moog but friends claim it's very good. Cost effective!

@MySynthDungeon Год назад

Lov it ,,Got my attention ,, Subbed ,,Cheers!;-)!!

@synthseeker Год назад

Thanks for the sub! Have fun!

@chriscopeman8820 Год назад

Kinda makes me want a Minitaur.

@synthseeker Год назад

Let me know if you publish anything using it, I’ll be happy to listen. :)

@tendingtropic7778 Год назад

that first 'roland pluck' sound of yours is awesome, could you please share the patch settings? is the position of the knobs in the video representing the patch?

@synthseeker Год назад

www.lukestark.com/minitaur/Roland%20Bass%20Pluc.syx

@synthseeker Год назад

Here’s the patch file, you should be able to use the Minitaur editor to load it. :)

@tendingtropic7778 Год назад

@@synthseeker Thanks so much! however, when I load it in the editor, i get an init sound... sure everythings ok or am I doing something wrong?

@synthseeker Год назад

It might a firmware thing. I’ll check it tonight and re upload.

@tendingtropic7778 Год назад

@@synthseeker thanksss let me know :)

@bobbythompson4268 2 месяца назад

Awesome sounds man! Any thoughts on the Moog mother 32 and the moog DFAM?

@synthseeker 2 месяца назад

I've owned them both and enjoyed them, but I tend to reach for synths intended to be controlled by keyboard or with keyboards attached so I let them go. :)

@bobbythompson4268 2 месяца назад

@@synthseeker ok cool, thanks for the reply. Yeah, they sound cool in all the demos I’ve heard, and I’m tempted, they’re just a little pricey. Also, the fact that dfam doesn’t have midi is annoying.

@BenA718 Год назад

Wow, that sounds amazing! Another alternative for a 2 osc analog bass synth that I like to use is the DSI MOPHO.

@synthseeker Год назад

But this one used three oscillators…however you should do what makes you happy.

@AkaTengu 9 месяцев назад

@js-wl3wiYep! The feedback is the secret sauce that takes it beyond the P8 and Rev2 sound palette too. Then the Tetra is just nuts!

@reubenrussi6210 Год назад

Hey man, these are awesome! I'd love to get my hands on these patches if you have them? I've got the roland pluck but would love the other three. Regards a patreon member! :)

@synthseeker Год назад

Are you on the Discord? If so I'll post them there. :) If not I'll figure something out.

@reubenrussi6210 Год назад

@@synthseeker I'm not on discord actually, never used it.

@synthseeker Год назад

@@reubenrussi6210 I'll try to gather them and post them to Patreon.

@reubenrussi6210 Год назад

@@synthseeker Awesome thank you!

@rockstarpaul 2 месяца назад

Hi Luke. I’m a bass guitarist but play keys as well. I’m looking at getting a synth bass as I don’t think pedals on a bass guitar sound anywhere near as good the real thing. I have been leaning towards the Bass station 2 as it is compact and has some great sounds as well as a nice feeling keyboard. However, I keep coming back to the minitaur as it just sounds so good! Have you played a bass station 2? I’m wondering if I will be able to get close to that Moog sound? (Although I loved the Roland pluck patch you made). Great video by the way. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

@synthseeker 2 месяца назад

If you have enough oscillators/shapes/processing you can make almost anything. I have not played a bass station two and I haven’t looked up at specs, but if it has at least two oscillators and they’re capable of doing sawtooth and square waves, you should be able to cover most of the ground that a Minitaur would. It won’t be exactly the same, but it should be good enough in the mix. I’d give it a shot before spending any more money.

@rockstarpaul 2 месяца назад

@@synthseeker thanks for much for getting back to me so quickly. I’m thinking Bass station 2 for now as they are such good value and as you said, it will get me most of the way there anyway. Maybe a Moog in the future if I start to really get into it and develop a synth obsession!

@alainszyller615 Год назад

Thanks for this great video. I would be interested to see / listen to a comparison Moog Minitaur / Novation Bass Station II / Behringer TD-3-MO-AM Analog Bass Line

@synthseeker Год назад

Thanks for watching! Those three synths are very different, I’m not sure. Even the filters alone are totally different sounding.

@alainszyller615 Год назад

@@synthseeker Thanks for your answer, I have a Novation BS 2, you mean getting a Minitaur and a TD-3-Mo in addition, would not be redundant

@synthseeker Год назад

Correct. They have very different sounds.

@alainszyller615 Год назад

@@synthseeker then now the newer question, what about the Behringer Toro $250 ?

@alainszyller615 Год назад

I m asking all this because it's soon my birthday, I was born on the very same day of Jamaica independance...but I'm older 😞

@alphonsemattia7365 Год назад

Really like this vid. Can you tell me what that thing is you’re controlling the Minitaur is? Awesome video. Thanks

@synthseeker Год назад

That is as grid controller. Specifically an Ableton Push 2.

@alphonsemattia7365 Год назад

Ahh so far I’ve been trying to stay DAW but don’t know how long I be able to hold out. thanks for the answer. Looking forward to your next vids

@RJ_Eckie Год назад

+1 for "Pant Flap"

@synthseeker Год назад

“WOOMF!”

@luaPevitisoP Год назад

Ok - twist my arm. I’ve wanted a real Moog for years - this will be my first! Size limitations abound in my massive pile of gear, and this will fit right in. Will be fun to pair with my Prophet 12 desktop.

@synthseeker Год назад

Have fun with it! It should be a lot of fun with that P12! I would love one but haven’t yet decided if I need a DSI/Sequential synth. It’s a gap in my collection for sure.

@eightcoins4401 10 месяцев назад

Keep in mind, this can only do pitches up to middle c and nothing above.

@synthseeker 10 месяцев назад

This is true.

@Strangedisciple 5 месяцев назад

For that coveted deep moog sound, this might actually be more precise? Than a sub phatty? Although, for a more "Avant garde" bass, the sub is a good option. I'm a bit more partial to the minitaur though. I'm coming at it from the perspective of a, industrial artist though.

@synthseeker 5 месяцев назад

Well, there are several “Moog sounds” and the Taurus bass is one of them. :)

@Strangedisciple 5 месяцев назад

@@synthseeker yea, like using a wah with a fat bass setting. Flanger, ping-pong delay & maybe a phaser is kind of like that crazy hoover sound that gives everyone either the chills or instant inertia. You got to admit though, the minitaur sounds idek, "heavier", "Beefier" "meaty" compared to the sub phatty imo. It'd be a plunge if I didn't need it, buuuuuut I'll probably buy one tbh.

@synthseeker 5 месяцев назад

They are definitely four distinct families. Taurus, Mini, Phatty, Mother.

@jason.martin 7 месяцев назад

What is the groove box control surface your using?

@synthseeker 7 месяцев назад

That is an Ableton Push control surface. :)

@kellytostada9949 6 месяцев назад

Call me an idiot, but how do you know what note you're playing on that pad surface

@synthseeker 6 месяцев назад

It’s laid out kind of like an 8 stringed guitar with 7 frets. Also the root notes and in-key notes are color-coded. I did a video explaining grid controllers here if interested. :) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-aAqO-rwksLw.htmlsi=RgSaTO2FiP_RaOEp

@kellytostada9949 6 месяцев назад

@@synthseeker that does make sense now. Thanks for the reply and great content!

@TheJohnnyjean Год назад

Nice video, what's the piece of gear you're using to arpeggiate the Minitaur?

@synthseeker Год назад

It’s software actually, it’s the arpeggiator that comes with Ableton live. ;)

@TheJohnnyjean Год назад

@@synthseeker Thx, so that's just a controller for Ableton Live. I'm on Pro Tools not sure you can do that..

@synthseeker Год назад

Im sure you can probably find software-based arp packages for PT. :)

@TheJohnnyjean Год назад

@@synthseeker for sure will look into it! Minitaur’s been on my wish list for a while..

@spark9x-music Год назад

Really great sound .... but, could you show the postion of knobs and setup ... would be really helpfully to get it 🙏🙏🙏🤝😘 ... maybe for first Patch f.e. please

@synthseeker Год назад

Sorry, I'll fix the camera angle for future videos if I can. As the the first patch - you can have the patch file and load it using the Minitaur editor. You can download the patch from here: www.lukestark.com/minitaur/Roland%20Bass%20Pluc.syx

@spark9x-music Год назад

@@synthseeker 😀🤝🤝🤝🤝

@abernathy2 Год назад

Thank you!

@jakedooom Год назад

great: essentials

@synthseeker Год назад

It’s definitely one of my favorites.

@hotchameanshotcha 6 месяцев назад

you should show the position of the knobs. didn't watch it now.

@synthseeker 6 месяцев назад

There are some presets files linked in the comments. :)

@JohnCameron-sx8de 2 месяца назад

These are great can the sub patty do this too?

@synthseeker 2 месяца назад

I haven’t tried, but potentially yes…you just need two oscillators.

@JohnCameron-sx8de 2 месяца назад

@@synthseeker Are these patches available to download?

@synthseeker Месяц назад

One is but it’s used for the Minotaur and won’t work on the subphatty. www.lukestark.com/minitaur/

@JohnCameron-sx8de Месяц назад

@@synthseeker Excellent thanks.

@nuggetzmusic1613 Год назад

Where can we find how to make the patches? They are lovely

@synthseeker Год назад

If you read the comments, there is a thread where I like to one of the patch files...but the rest, you can explore the factory presets to find them, or things very close to them. I strongly advocate exploring the Minitaur, it's a great learning synth! If a lot of people ask, I can do some detailed patch breakdowns.

@Tapepusher 7 месяцев назад

Can you control the 2 oscillators’ pitch separately with MIDI to make 2 note chords? e.g. sending midi cc from a sequencer

@synthseeker 7 месяцев назад

Yes! See page 22 of the manual (midi implementation chart.)

@brenthickman7935 5 месяцев назад

Do you have a quick link to the video on how to make the "Roland pluck" sound? You make reference to blending a square wave and saw tooth around the 210 minute mark. Thanks!

@synthseeker 5 месяцев назад

Here you go. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-iODJSILCP7U.html

@brenthickman7935 5 месяцев назад

@@synthseeker thanks! Any chance you’ve got a video or a diagram showing the Minitaur settings for all the patches in this video? Is that a dumb question?

@synthseeker 5 месяцев назад

@@brenthickman7935 There is a link to a patch file (sysex) in the comments somewhere. But no diagrams...sorry. Go explore! You can figure it I'm sure.

@amonster8mymother Год назад

"Pant flap" I wonder who came up with that one?

@synthseeker Год назад

For me? My dad.

@amonster8mymother Год назад

That's a belfast expression.

@ChrisandDanielMusic Год назад

i've been looking for the tutorial video you referenced on how to create the Roland Pluck bass synth sound :) could you post the link?

@synthseeker Год назад

Here you go! Berlin School and Synthwave Pulsing Basslines Made Easy ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-nSpfFAH7S_w.html

@ChrisandDanielMusic Год назад

@@synthseeker hawt damn thanks.

@tendingtropic7778 Год назад

@@synthseeker this is more about the sequencer than how to program the sound?

@synthseeker Год назад

It’s about sequencing but I posted a reply to you a minute ago on the Minitaur video with that bass patch. :)

@W4TSKY Год назад

Are both the Minitaur and Push connected to your DAW and you're controlling this all from your DAW?

@synthseeker Год назад

Yes. The Push is used as a master controller. The DAW (Ableton Live) routes midi from the push to all the synths. :)

@W4TSKY Год назад

@@synthseeker Awesome! Thanks for the reply

@TheTomallon 7 месяцев назад

Long shot here : what the chance you can share the chain you are usingon the push as an effect rack / group , including your midi harp rhytmic arrpegiator

@synthseeker 7 месяцев назад

Hi there. The chain was really simple: Ableton arpeggiator device -> External instrument device (Minitaur) -> Ableton chorus -> Ableton Delay device -> Ableton Reverb. The Arpegiator is playing 8th notes using an "Up" pattern and the delay (when engaged) is set to sync at dotted-8th notes. Sometimes I have the arp play 1 or two extra octaves (in the Roland Pluck part for example.) :) If you tell me which version of Live you are using I can try and share a preset device group. But it's really really simple here.

@TheTomallon 7 месяцев назад

In on live 11 Would love to get your preset actually . One tip using “external instrument “ device adds latancy to the whollle session so u know it much better to just use it as an input audio interface

@synthseeker 7 месяцев назад

@@TheTomallon - Well here's a link to a Ableton Device Group from Live 11 that is basically what I used for the Minitaur. www.lukestark.com/minitaur/Basic%20Minitaru%20Effects%20Chain.adg.zip re: latency - I have a rant about that actually found here (don't watch the whole thing as it's more about ADAT routing, but the rant might be entertaining.) :ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-HHQnHxPxuus.html Have fun!

@TheTomallon 7 месяцев назад

@@synthseeker thanks mate :) appriciate it

@TheTomallon 8 месяцев назад

Can u share about the arpegiator ? Is it a basic ableton one ?

@synthseeker 8 месяцев назад

Yes, that is the Ableton arp...I find that it's a very good arpeggiator, and the arp has added a number of new features in Live 12. I would check it out when it gets released later this year! :)

@Douglas-Heffernan 5 дней назад

3:56 how did u do that with 2 octaves?

@synthseeker 5 дней назад

I’m using the arpeggiator in Ableton Live which has a setting for number of octaves. :)

@Douglas-Heffernan 5 дней назад

@@synthseeker ur the best! ty

@KristalPalas Год назад

Jonathan bree Tool

@synthseeker Год назад

I don't know who that is but I'll go look for him?

@tinykarpo80s 7 месяцев назад

u use moog and the other one that you control the moog what is the name of it?

@synthseeker 7 месяцев назад

That is as an Ableton Push. :)

@freebird3581 8 месяцев назад

What is the other piece of gear that’s not the Minotaur?

@synthseeker 8 месяцев назад

That is an Ableton Push, which is a MIDI controller.

@CesarMorera82 Год назад

Hello @synthseeker I just bumped into this today, do you have a jpeg, or the sus ex for this patches?

@synthseeker Год назад

I just have one: www.lukestark.com/minitaur/Roland%20Bass%20Pluc.syx

@CesarMorera82 Год назад

@@synthseeker 1 is more than enough so I can practice on my Minitaur, and I use live 11 as well, been watching your videos, you have a new suscríbele. Thank you

@wesleyforman8391 Год назад

Is the push 2 good for sequencing external hardware

@synthseeker Год назад

The Push 2 requires Ableton Live and provides a control surface for it. In that regard, Live is the sequencer and it is very capable with both hardware and software as a sequencer. I sequence everything through live and the push.

@wesleyforman8391 Год назад

@@synthseeker yes I use Ableton and just got a push and using external instrument seeing how push will tie in to control multiple hardware inside Ableton , minitaur being one . Will push be enough or need sl MK3 or keystep pro ? So many things out there

@synthseeker Год назад

It depends on your workflow. Push can be enough but it’s up to you.

@sol.green.energy9515 Год назад

So its a moog geared only to focus on what moog is best at?

@synthseeker Год назад

I dunno, what would you say they are best at? :)

@sol.green.energy9515 Год назад

@@synthseeker bass

@synthseeker Год назад

They do those well, especially the Taurus family but other Moogs do leads and other timbres too! :) Use it how you like it.

@georgeohara7611 Год назад

El tauro esta conectado en el teclado midi?.. y este directo a la computadora?. O cual es la ruta?

@synthseeker Год назад

Un controlador de red está conectado a la computadora (Ableton Live) y el Taurus está conectado a la computadora. MIDI fluye desde la grilla a Ableton al Taurus.

@amonster8mymother Год назад

Can you control the filter with a foot pedal?

@synthseeker Год назад

Directly, no…There is no expression input but there is filter frequency CV input. And you can control it via midi CCs.

@amonster8mymother Год назад

@@synthseeker uh oh!

@chateautemp Год назад

Great sounds! Any similarities to SE02?

@synthseeker Год назад

The filter is probably the only thing that is similar to the SEO2. The SEO2 is modeled after the minimoog, while this is a mini Taurus pedal synth (without the pedals.) The synth architectures are bit different but I do like the SEO2 very much…if you can deal with the tiny controls, but the SEO2 has a lot more features as well. Are you trying to decide between them?

@chateautemp Год назад

@@synthseeker Yes and thanks for the reply. I've been searching SE02 vs Minitaur (which is how I found your video). Minitaur sounds amazing but the limited range is why I'm looking at other options for bass and lead sounds. The tiny knobs are really small in real life!

@tjorloski1961 Год назад

hey idk how u acheived this settings, can u help me out. With the roladn pluck one

@synthseeker Год назад

www.lukestark.com/minitaur/Roland%20Bass%20Pluc.syx

@synthseeker Год назад

You can download that patch file and load it using the Minitaur editor plugin. ;)

@tjorloski1961 Год назад

@@synthseeker oh hell ya, you a real one. Thanks dude

@Dnalor91847 11 месяцев назад

It sounds very very good BUT... you don't give any precise information on the adjustments of your sound and the use with the Ableton (Live ?) and the Push interface ... too bad ...

@synthseeker 11 месяцев назад

Well, I have a number of videos about integrating hardware synths with live. What would you like to know specifically? :)

@juliorepapis Год назад

Toby Flendersen , is that you?

@synthseeker Год назад

I have never been to Scranton. ;)

@juliorepapis Год назад

@@synthseeker :)

@David-ew5gc 14 дней назад

dude come on show us A VIEW of the minitaur so we can get the sound you are showing.. I mean basic stuff

@synthseeker 6 дней назад

There are links to patch files in the comments. I'm not a synth reviewer buddy, you get what's convenient for me. :) Don't sweat it too much. Thanks for watching!

@gambooyt 6 месяцев назад

Don't talk so much please - let the device do the talking!

@synthseeker 6 месяцев назад

Well that’s a pretty old video and unfortunately I’m going to disappoint you because history would indicate that I continued to talk a LOT. ;)

@gambooyt 6 месяцев назад

@@synthseeker Oh well...

@ilearncode7365 Год назад

Does this have more bass-centric variety than a sub25, or can the sub25 make any bass sounds that the minitaur can make?

@synthseeker Год назад

You aren’t the first to ask, I should think on it.

@theleastsignificantbit4794 Год назад

I own both. The 25 has more range and can be overdriven with the mixer, feedback, and the post-filter FET. The FET is amazing and can give you tube-like saturation. They sound very different. The Bull sounds smoother than either the 25 or the 37, and the square wave has a very different sound than the 25 or 37. If you need only big bass, get the Bull. If you want a more flexible synth with less menu-diving, get the 25. The 25 does solid bass and has a more diverse sound palette, but the Bull is magnificent for what it does-it’s just limited. What the Bull does, it does well in the extreme.