De stem van Fay Lovsky komt via de maan retour naar de aarde en wordt weer opgevangen met de Radio Telescoop te Dwingeloo. afstand bedraagt gemiddel 770000 km, en de tijdsduur ongeveer 2,5 sec.
Amazing that the echo was so clear. You would think that the rough surface of the moon would scatter the signal and create different returns from the various surface elevations would distort her voice.
The radio waves are scattered when they hit the moon. But the waves that are sent in odd directions don't come back to the receiver, they just go out into space. And those don't bounce off something else.
And if they do, the Moon diameter is just 1/100 of the distance between Earth and Moon. When the signal is reflected from south to north, it will only cause a very weak 11 millisecond echo on the signal.
This is fantastic - I think the clearest example of voice moonbounce echo I've seen recorded. Please may I use a clip of a few seconds for a RU-vid video on moonbounce to help explain the principle? I would attribute and link.
PI9CAM is operating from the 25 m Dish of the Dwingeloo observatory. The callsign refers to Lex Muller PA0CAM, the late chief engineer and main scientist of this astronomic instrument. This magnificent instrument was built in 1956, and was at that time the only fully rotatable radio telescope of that size in the world. In 2013 the complete restauration of the dish was finished and it is now in 'like new' state and fully operational. Dish and housing weigh 120.000 kg. F/D of the dish is 0.5. We will activate PI9CAM on EME as much as we can. Operations will be announced on moon-net. If you QSL directly, a small contribution is well appreciated!
Well that's rather incredible. I worked in the NL on the first WiFi cards - great engineers and fine people in general, but rather cold in the winter. I can do moon bounce but nothing like that - must be using a large dish.
Very interesting, but I can't hear myself yet, since the 144 MHz setup is a very weak 2X9H and about 100 watts. 3 radio communications on this setup through the moon have already been carried out UA3PTW, I2FAK and RK3FG.
I can detect my own echos using a 6 element yagi and 1kW on 6m. Earlier I had 4 * 18 and a kW on 2m, which worked really well on CW EME. At best I had audible echos using only 40W from JX7DFA. You would benefit greatly from a few dB more antenna gain. Also, make sure you test when the moon is low (0-15 degrees) for extra ground gain.
To all FE commenters I’d love to know what the speed of light is on your flat earth? Amateur radio ops ,myself a G6 callsign among them ,know the speed of light 299792458m/s , if we didn’t ,no antenna we build would resonate at its fundamental frequency . We know the metre is 1/c, we know the second = 9,192,631,770 cycles of the radiation produced by the transition between two hyperfine levels of the cesium 133 atom., what more information do you need to calculate the distance between the Earth and Moon?
Yeah you're right! It's the rule of Scharsnarzleblarvle that says that no antenna we build will resonate at its fundamental frequency. There are qlincotorquilate velocity factors from quantum mechanic energy fields and quitschqorqualate fields that are influencing gravity neqirqyulating energy. It's common knowledge.
What antenna are they using and how much dBD gain does it has? Amazing how strong the signal comes back! That must be a very big antenna with lots of gain. What is the QRG ? How much Watt ERP and how much RF pwr into the antenna?
Wat mij betreft mag dit signaal als eerste opgevangen worden door ander leven op andere planeten......... ik zou dan meteen koers zetten naar onze aarde om daar meer te willen horen.
@@bren42069 PI9CAM 25m dish and 1296MHz. Antenna gain is 47dB and beamwidth is 0.5 degrees, so it has illumination on the whole moon's surface withs is 0.5 degrees wide). Actually, you can get even cleaner signals back if you have an even bigger dish because then you will be using just a portion of the surface, so it will be less fading.
Ik heb eind jaren '90 een EME avond bijgewoond in Thorn, insiders weten dan genoeg. Zo mooi! 1.2 kW in een 9 meter schotel :) Heb daar nog ergens video-opnames van bedenk ik me net.
@@gertebert Ik was er niet helemaal bij, sorry 😅 1200 Watt ERP is niet zo veel om een afstand EME te overbruggen van 770.000km. Waar ik even overheen las was de schotel van 9 meter die op (ik neem aan) 1296 MHz een gain moet hebben van om en nabij de 40dBi waardoor het geen 1200W ERP is maar 10 MegaWatt ERP 🙂 Foutje, bedankt.
@@hugoromeyn4582 Geeft niets en je rekensom klopt! 23cm inderdaad. Eindtrap was een YL1050 naar ontwerp van DL9DBL. Zo mooi! Alleen de gloeistroom van die buis is al 25 Ampère..... :)
From about 400,000 km, a very very very small variation of the magnetic field, or electric micro micro volts reaches that receiver, but enough to transfer that sound
225,706 miles or 451.412 miles round trip EME.OR 726,477Km, given the speed of light 299792458m/S them the time is about 413mS,or slightly shy of half a second shown in the video. Hence the moon is where it should be .
It's actually about 1.3 seconds and it would be from the beginning of her transmission and not from when she unkeyed the microphone. The moon doesn't buffer the echo. :)
I find it interesting that the echo doesn't start until after she unkeys the mike, especially on her longer transmissions and the delay after unkeying seems constant no matter how long she talks. As said in the 1960's show Laugh-In, "Very interesting..." The echo should have already been back before she unkeyed so she would have only heard the last part of her transmission. I've echoed my CW call from the moon at 10wpm and only heard the tail end of the echo because the signal was already back before the end of my transmission.
Except you could probably disprove this by loading it into an audio editor and timing the echo. Some of her overs are longer than others, but the echo time is constant. Check the very last over when she gives the callsign.
wb5rue - Your CW call at 10 wpm is definitely taking longer than 2.3 seconds to complete. I've timed it at almost 6 seconds at that speed. So you _will_ only hear the tail end of your callsign.
@@HilkoHof Yep, a nice experiment using a tiny 100 Watt Kenwood TS-2000 amateur shortwave-tranceiver, which is connected to a HUGE 25 meter diameter parabolic scientific Radio Telescope (located in Dwingelo, in the north of the Netherlands) which is pointed to the moon, beams about 1.2 Kw of RF energy towards the moon-surface, of which a tiny part is reflected back into the 25m antenna.
WSJT operation on 144 MHz typically takes place between 144.100 and 144.150 MHz. Moonbounce via SSB: For stations with very high gain antennas and high power levels, it can be possible to use single sideband.
The frequency spectrum is historically divided into bands for various use cases and the naming depends on the wavelength of the radio waves. E.g. The 20m band is 14MHz, and a dipole antenna is 2 x 5m. The 10m band is 28MHz and a dipole is 2 x 2,5m. In the early days of radio, amateur radio operators were given ALL frequencies above 2MHz. These were "useless" for broadcast at the time. Still, amateur radio has a lot of frequency bands probably thanks to the early days were we owned most frequencies :) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_spectrum
The (amateurband) signal is transmitted from a small amateur tranceiver, BUT is is connected to a HUGE radiotelescope antenna in the north in the Netherlands: The Dwingelo Radio Telescope (se: www.camras.nl/en/)
She's got a lovely voice. And someone wants to complain?! ALL sound is like a music to me. I have to mentally translate sounds into musical intonation and translate that to speech. 10KHz, 9KHz, 8KHz whistling in my head makes it that way. Slightly clipped speech is actually way more intelligible than soft spoken vowel based words perfectly clear audio with a noise at around the same level. I will hear your voice, know who you are, but not understanding a single word you may have spoken during the same level ambient noise.
No contact. There is nobody on the moon... It's just the echo of a radiosignal that you hear coming back from the moon-surface. Similar to shouting in a mountainous area, and you will hear your (audio) echo back after some seconds.
I hate to be a wet rag but music and/or singing isn't allowed on Amateur radio frequencies. The band spacing is so tight that the dynamic range of singing/music takes the transmission outside the intended band space to splatter on adjacent bands/channels. I'm not sure about the radio rules in the Netherlands but in the US it's a major no-no.
Deploracle - Singing is allowed, so long as it’s not copyright material or a professional recording. There is nothing which specifically forbids all sorts of singing. And in any case, she was not causing interference to any other service on that frequency. The rules do say that bandwidth should be kept within reasonable limits, but those limits depend upon the mode of transmission. Amateur fast scan television, for example, is several MHz in bandwidth, whereas CW will be 300 Hz or less, depending upon sending speed. RTTY needs a couple of kHz, and SSB voice requires about 3kHz. The OP mentioned FM, which requires more bandwidth, even for NBFM or PM. Channel spacing for NBFM on 2 metres is 12.5 kHz, so singing is possible even in that mode. The bandwidth of that received audio signal is not wide. Probably not much more than 3.5 kHz, but you can check it with a spectrum analyser to confirm the statement.
It's got nothing whatsoever to do with music "going outside the intended band space". Rather, it has to do with the fact that commercial broadcasters don't want competition from amateur radio for "entertainment" and the money they make from it. Same reason hams aren't allowed to make money from their activity, for any reason, including competing with for-profit telephone services. It's all about the moolah, otherwise nobody would care.
@@kenlogsdon7095 Sorry but, it has everything to do with it. A licensed amateur is prohibited from transmitting outside of their assigned band space. Music can have a wide dynamic range, which may put parts of the transmitted signal (using Frequency Modulation (FM)) onto areas of the spectrum they are not licensed for. Besides ... who is going to listen to scratchy ham bands for a low power, low quality music station? Who wants to make a completely public phone call? No one. Phone patches were a thing before mobile phones, intended for hams to use in an emergency. Why can't hams make money using amateur radio frequencies? Because they only pay $1 a year for the privilege of using the band space.
Is it legal to sing on amateur radio? May not be in the licence to not do it. It's supposed to be for communication with others and self training in radio, not a music hall act. Singing and talking to herself. What a waste of radio gear.
CharlesFockaert Charles do you even know what EME is? Or how far a radio wave can transmit? Do you understand that Voyager which has sent information back to earth uses radio frequency to send the telemetry back to Earth. You really don't think that the Earth and the moon are separated almost a quarter of a million miles? Are you really that ignorant or are you just trolling I hopefully think that you're just trolling
CharlesFockaert Charles fuckwit more like. Isn't it sad... this video eats away at your own beliefs and starts to show how science erodes the religious dogma and indoctrination.. And don't you just hate it.
Electronics and radio that person did not mention anything about religion so why are you mentioning religion? That's just a fucking moron that does not believe that the Moon is about 240,000 miles away but that does not have to do anything with religion actually mentioning religion could show another thing otherwise.
