Ya know, for two people pleasers, y'all have done a *great* job of setting boundaries and letting go of that fear of disappointing your families of origin. Also, once again, watching Josh just beam as he talks about your company, born out of Kimberly's passion, is just beautiful. Thank you both for everything.
Kim and Josh, So glad you have escaped the dysfunction of the Mormon Church, the cult of AVOW and the influence of Kim's father. May you and yours be blessed with the best of what life has to offer,
@janpascoe7924…..Oh yeah, AVOW. If there is a negative side to prepping, THAT is it! I used to be a subscriber there for about 4 or 5 years. Wow. Did I ever witness some disturbing things!
Prepping tied to wild visions and dreams is scary because it feeds peoples fears and paranoia. But emergency preparedness based on weather patterns etc to me is perfectly reasonable.
I should have better clarified in our interview that I'm all for people being prepared for natural disasters. It's when it's tied to religious extremist beliefs and starts to take over your life that it becomes a problem.
@@SweetRedPoppyI think it was perfectly clear how you talked about it!! A big giant difference & for me a HUGE MAJOR RED FLAG should be waved in regards to prepping whenever there is 1 person, or a small group of ppl who are *significantly profiting off the chaos & fear*
It's all about degrees. You think about what could reasonably happen and how to hedge against that event. Extra groceries ahead of the Blizzard. Power outages that may come with the hurricanes. Emergency funds if you lose your job or get injured. Plenty to prepare for. At the far end includes the bunkers and NBC facemasks. TV probably had it right with that series "Doomsday Preppers".
As an adult, I found out that my parents were Democrat, even though they were devout Mormons. My mom told me that my dad came home from priesthood meetings so irritated saying, they’re trying to tell me how to vote! It’s so wrong that the church does that. It’s none of their business.
The LDS church never ever tells us how to vote. Every time there is voting the church leadership from Salt Lake City always tells us to get out and vote but the church never ever takes a political stand on any opponent. What you said is not accurate that is not true I'm very active in the church I always hear that letter come over the pulpit and no one has ever told me how to vote. This this is simply not true
I don't see a problem with a church telling their congregation you can't vote for any candidate that isn't pro-life. Being pro-abortion is not a Christian stance. Ever. Thou shalt not murder. End of story.
Sorry hiddenhand 6973. Separation of church and state is your first rule here. If the church wants to stand alone with no government intervention then it goes both ways. The church can state what they believe certainly, but the church, any church cannot tell you how to vote, who to vote for, or try to change your vote. It is indeed none of their business.
@@hiddenhand6973And many of us have no problem with stripping churches of their exemption from paying taxes. Also, this country is a constitutional, secular representative democracy, so your "End of Story," comment suggests you would like to install a christo-fascist regime in the U.S. along the lines of the mullahs in Iran.
@@sandiekaye5241 Thank you. I have a good Mormon friend who saw a poll a couple of years ago, that over 70% of Mormons supported then President Trump. This friend is not a Democrat. She said this man has cheated on all his wives, is dishonest about his money dealings with cheating on his taxes and his dealings within his Trump Org, lied about an election, and is a huge bully, calling people all kinds of horrible names. She said I don’t understand why they would support a man like that. I think it’s because they are like sheep, blindly following what their church leaders are telling them to do. IMO, that’s not being a true Christian.
Just picked up some fast food for dinner & I'm sitting in my car, eating and listening to this episode... when a Mormon missionary comes and knocks on my window. I'm rolling in the irony.
Never Mormon. First, this is strength. Thank you.the second coming sounds identical to a crazy Pentecostal experience I had at a friend church’s your movie night. She was not allowed to see normal movies,and invited me to her Pentecostal “fun movie night”. The end days movie that was shown was the most horror movie I ever saw in my life plus a woman spoke in tongues and I thought I was in a haunted church. I got home, traumatized and my mom, point blank, told me we don’t believe in a God that wants people to live in fear or live to die. God wanted us to live full lives. It was a huge relief.
I studied World Religions in University, but my true interest was always the extreme beliefs. Why did people need such negativity to happen to them or others? Why did their belief need to be the only right one? My current favourite is people stating that the Bible “says this” when in fact it doesn’t, and that person only takes the word from someone who only is trained in one particular religious organization. I respect others beliefs, just as I demand respect for my own. Those who respect that boundary, understand. Those who have been taught that they know better over step, and have started trying to change your mind. It’s cruel.
Wow! How much this couple's journey mirrors my own experience in a fundamentalist pentacostal church in the eighties and ninetys blows my mind. I've been out since 1997, yet haven't achieved the amount of healing and clarity that they've achieved in 4 years. Answering the comment made frequently by John about half of MSP listeners never having been Mormon I have to share that although I've been Mormon adjacent not Mormon, a cult is a cult is a cult. When I left my own high demand religion there were no places to deconstruct. I've understood and learned more in the few months listening to MSP than the previous 16 years. Margie has incredible insight, and her questions hit home hard. Please introduce her in more depth for new viewers like me. 🤟
I have really enjoyed watching this couples interviews! I also met my husband in church. We have been together 15 years, left the church (non denomination), and created our own life/ values for our kids, and finally a sense of self through healing and therapy. You can really see the genuine love and care these two have for each other ❤
I had death anxiety because my mother used to tell me I needed to get saved because I didn’t want to go to hell & that Jesus will coming soon. That was over 50 years ago. .Our preacher (my uncle) would have alter to call after Sunday night service & Wednesday night service.
As a black woman, if someone asked me to go to a white camp in Idaho, I’d run in the other direction. Don’t even have to know what’s at the white camp to know something called white camp is not for me.
I can imagine, @DuchessChau. I’m white and the term “white camp” bothers me. Plus I wouldn’t want to live in tents with conspiracy wing nuts in Idaho. 😮
I come from Pentecostalism and this is all the same at the extreme level and end of days to Pentecostalism including the Latter Day Saints concept - same same. I have a dissociative condition due to my childhood with a leader of my church who also had narcissistic personality disorder - u guys have such a calm and healthy perspective - thank u for sharing.
Can we talk about the elephant in the room?! I mean maybe this comes up in the part of this I haven't got to yet, but this isn't just a dangerous belief system that sucks people in. It's a dangerous belief system that appeals specifically to severely personality disordered people! It bolsters their narcissism, gives them an easy way to claim status and power, and allows them to rationalise selfish, horrific, harmful acts by dehumanizing others while they literally applaud themselves for being the most righteous people in the world, or even gods
I just have to comment on every part of this interview. Kim you deserve the best!! Your vulnerability is such a strength. The way you two support each other and have clear compassion for each others’ sorrow is so beautiful!
My aunt was told in her patriarchal blessing she would be walking to Missouri to help build the temple in adam ondi aman or whatever it's called. She passed away.
Way to man up Josh!! You stepped as a dad of daughters. Being a dad of all daughters I learned and have grown so much in understanding the bullshit women have to put up with in the church and conservative circles. Thx for your videos.
Wow, some of these comments... Why are y'all even watching? John, Margi and the rest of MSP-keep doing what you're doing. It's important work. Kim and Josh-I wish nothing but the best for you and your family. Thank you for sharing so much of yourselves❤
Again I feel deeply in sympathy and empathy for what you two have done with your lives. Not Mormon, but half of my family was very fundamentalist Christian. Me, being raised by a step father and my mom was always considered an outsider. I couldn't know what was right because I wasn't raised in a real family.... After spending decades trying to be accepted, I learned a new term from you today, to find that "conditional" love, I completely changed by faith beliefs. I was raised by my mother's Jewish side of the family and was very faithful. Confirmed bat mitzvah, etc.... I had to completely cut off that side of the family. That includes my father, stepmother, two half sisters, their children, aunts and uncles, cousins, etc. My father passed during COVID and we hadn't been in contact for 13 years. A half sister called to tell me on December 11, 2020, and back to radio silence since. It hurt at first, but I'm healthier than I have ever managed to be since first trying to embrace their lifestyle and coming to t he realization that I really didn't want to be a part of something so hypocritical. I've really enjoyed listen to your journey. You've done amazing for yourselves and broken a cycle of abuse for your own children.
John. I think it’s simple why the LDS church has attacked you and many progressives while ignoring the conservative fanatics. While the progressives see church history as problematic and hope to move towards healthy change, the conservatives cling to and idolize past problematic teaching and rhetoric. If the church denounces the extreme right they have to turn the lens on themselves. Kim and Josh. thank you so much for sharing you are both lovely and I am going to look for your crafting page! Sending love.
Will there ever be any persons on that talk about the camp that Chad (8 passengers) went to as well as Kimmy's oldest son went to? Curious to hear from survivors of that horrible place. This ties in with Hildebrandt and several YT families. The more that comes out the more there seems to be connections between so many things.
This is such a critical conversation to have right now! I am so impressed with this couple. I love that Kim is so articulate in addressing these issues in such a balanced way. Her perspective is so valuable, considering her background. I have something to add to this conversation, a unique perspective that both challenges and validates what I have been hearing on recent Mormon Stories and Hidden True Crime episodes - regarding “Visions of Glory.”
What an amazing young couple they are!! Bless their hearts for sharing their story - as heartbreaking as it is. As a non-Morman I just have to wonder are there any functional good Morman families?? I sure hope that all children are not having to grown up this way! ❤
I have left the LDS faith but I have a good family and childhood. Leaving was the hardest thing I have ever done (even harder than a 2 year mission) but my family did not shun or abandon me.
Members of my family have patriarchal blessings that say the family farm will be a pitstop on the way to the mountains for the 12 tribes. They had tons of food storage so they could feed all 12 tribes. They always speculated how long they would stay before heading to the mountains.
I'm not Mormon but fascinated with the patriarchal blessing. My dad tells me his and all I can think is "and you believed that?" Crazy. Thanks for sharing this.
I find it interesting that every generation is told they’re the chosen generation saved for the last days 🙄 I mean, it was told to me (I’m 63), to my daughter and I guess now to my grandchildren’s generation. Glad they don’t have to hear it 😂
I married into an evangelical church. Their main focus was on the end of times. For me, if it is coming, why focus on it. If you are prepared, why are you grifting on the end times? You should have peace, right?
I just can't imagine Jesus: You get a vision!! He gets a vision! She gets a Vision!! Everybody get a vision and death experiences!!!...c'mon people, seriously?!?!?
The unfortunate thing about watching a bunch of ExMo stuff is that the RU-vid algorithm thinks I too am a rightwing prepper judging by the ads it shows me. Ugghhhh! ABSOLUTELY NOT.
I had a horrible experience with my dad (history of abuse and alcoholism) - which escalated when I left the Catholic Church. My therapist at the time said that sometimes the best way to honor our parents (the toxic and abusive ones) is to not have a relationship with them. That is how I was able to be OK with terminating my relationship with my father. I have not ever regretted this decision - not when he died and not in the more than 20 years since his death.
If you don't mind being asked...did you leave the Catholic faith because of issues with theology or because dad's behavior was scandalizing? Thank you for your time.
I left Catholic Church as well years ago, became Christian, then during the pandemic did deep soul searching and did research in all the religions that exist, realized they all preach the same things just in different cultures. All while people fight each other of what god is better. Decided to not be religious at all, and just practice good teachings and meditate from Buddhist practices. Stay grounded with earth and Mother Nature. Learned about death and how to be okay with it, so I’m at peace when I die. I’m 30 and I’m proud of myself for learning this ability of keeping myself in a peaceful state. Most people never learn to self love and being okay being alone. 😢
I bought the preparedness manual you spoke of. I loved the first part of the book that gives lists of how much food per person for a year, and felt it was good information. However, as I read further into the book it got stranger and stranger. It talked in terms of “us” verses “them,” it was bigoted and racist. I realized that for the church to have accepted this manual as appropriate for teaching about food storage and emergency preparedness they have clearly never read it. I wonder if this is also the case with other books you have mentioned here. I eventually torn my book apart, saved the food storage information and dropped the remainder of the book into the recycling bin. I was embarrassed to own it.
I really like this couple and their story. I was raised on the fringe, but not quite as fringe as the dad in this story. I really believed that Ezra Taft Benson’s teachings were Mormon doctrine, and vice versa.
THANKYOU, John Dehlin. You’ve made a statement to the LDS church that most of us here are wanting to say! You’re speaking for all of us that care and want this nonsense to stop now !
continuing my Journey with.youn& Margie exploring in Eureka Moments my appreciation of how understanding another way of seeing our world helps me realize how much my Judaic Heritage accomplished in giving me many things your Mormon Indoctrination prevented your community establishing a peace of mind so essential.to.Both physical & mental well being ...
I am not Mormon and live in a large Midwest city so very different culture. Kim’s recount of her post-partum depression is heartbreaking. I spent my 40 year career working in a mental health and substance facility. Just wondering why a pediatrician or OBGYN physician didn’t pick up on her symptoms as trained professionals. The stigmatism of mental health issues has a come a long way. I’m sorry you had to suffer.
In listening to John's questions as to what is attracting people to this movement, I can't help but feel that one attraction to many might be simply the promise of excitement. Ordinary life can be pretty tedious, banal and disappointing. Lots of us find relief from boredom and tedium in the drama of TV and movies - action shows, mysteries and police procedurals, war movies, horror movies, etc. Then there are those for whom the passive consumption of fiction isn't enough, and they can go for various types of extreme sports and things like mountain climbing, backwoods hiking, etc., where there is a real element of risk. Or you can live out a fantasy of an imminent apocalypse, which I can imagine can be very thrilling if you are confident that you can be sufficiently well-prepared to survive, and perhaps be a real winner in the post-apocalyptic future. There is tons of fiction out there that follows that theme, for those who are willing to limit themselves to consuming fiction. Kim's dad is ex-military, and the thrill of at least preparing for military conflict, if not actually participating in it, may be factor in his pursuit of this lifestyle. I know that some men find military conflict gives them a kind of excitement and satisfaction that can only be found in life and death situations. Just a thought.....
I think you’re spot on. People want to feel like they alone have special knowledge, and you’re right about some wanting drama and excitement. I’m totally fine with reading fiction or seeing movies for my drama fix 😂
Many preppers are innocent of doing anything other than stockpiling goods for their own sense of security, I'm sure. However, systems and lifestyle choices based on terror that the end of the world is imminent HAVE to be questioned, because they can lead to paranoia, isolation and violence.
There seems to me to be a correlation between the church not pushing back on the extreme right preppers and them having the weapons. It’s a bigger pr issue after Ruby Ridge and the artifact forger … Hoffman (?). What she said about people staying in the church and maybe they die but they’re still in whereas on the left they leave… that was powerful.
Can I just call this for what it is? From what I have learned and certainly after listening to this specific part of their story, these leading preppers are narcissists. They have a lot of flying monkeys and are excellent at isolating and gas lighting the truth tellers. And with the church being a narcissistic organization they will not take responsibility for their mistakes. It has to hurt their pocketbook enough to do that. I applaud the both of you for your courage and for speaking out.
When I was a kid I took up archery and my parents were thrilled because I would be useful in hunting for food when the world ended and society collapsed. 30 years ago It was engrained into me that it was any day now.
These “visionaries” need to do as Stevie Nicks sang, “I keep my visions to myself.” Good on these young folks for seeing through the bull💩 and claiming their mental health and joy 😊
I'm concerned because my sister is a prepper and I fear that she's gotten into something very heavy like this. She acts very aloof and we're mostly estranged along with my siblings. I must preface this by saying that I left the church after 50 years and my three siblings are still part of LDS.
I have always found it ironic that Chad Daybell chose Rexburg as the new Jerusalem when that town is located next to Yellowstone, the location of a super volcano.
I think they get a pass and no excommunication is because the Group size is so large 30,000 + and Curch is afraid of membership loss..and that would cause loss of $
There was a huge focus on family preparedness during Spencer Kimball's tenure. One felt the absolute need to be a prepper back then, (although that term wasn't used), and we felt our lives depended on it. Then, it inexplicably went on the back burner for a long time. This current prepperism is harkening back to those days, but even more intensely.
I’m exmo and my speculations of the last days is a reference to the end of each persons life. Often people in the ends days of peoples lives have a change of heart, often they experience tragedy, pestilence and sickness in those last days. So preparing for your end is important, and no one really knows the day. None of this stuff in the Bible is meant to be taken literally. It’s metaphor, it’s to be pondered on. It is no different than many of the other ancient wisdom paths teachings.
I bet the church gives these prepper crowds more of a pass (just like the Pope gives a pass to the various Marian apparitions that talk of the end times & end time preparedness) because there is BIG money in end times proselytizing & prepping. There is money in spreading fear and that fear keeps pple closely connected to the false security of the church and more dedicated to carrying out their faith. That’s just my take on why there isn’t as much policing about these things in Mormonism or Catholicism. Overall, It helps keep the church in pples minds & the money flowing back into the system.
I stopped attending in 2012 and the few years before, being in the transition stage, I must have dropped out of AVOW after having been in for several years. There were other web sites that pushed similar stuff. I was about as radical as anyone on AVOW, not unusual in the ward I was in. Idaho was a hotbed of dreams and visions of last days and polygamy. "Passing the Heavenly Gift" and the "Second Comforter", by Denver was a beginning of doubts. AVOW had two 1and 1/2 inch spiral notebooks out that had lots of visions of the last days. After I learned about the church, I got rid of all that stuff and I had lots of books. At the end of most priesthood lessons, we "enlightened" brethren would talk about the last days after class. That re paper-back "LDS Preparedness Manual" had lots of ideas on guns and ammo and food and everything to survive, but there was nothing new for people in our ward.
It's amazing how many of these people have claimed to have near death experiences then they become the revered leaders of this prepper movement. It looks like a clear grift to me!
The word rapture means extreme bliss and pleasure. Revelations is enlightenment. Just like the major arcana in tarot. Point being, the Bible was written by gnostics as a metaphorical text about enlightenment. All material interpretations would therefore not be spiritually or energetically sound.
Very interesting conversations. I am honestly curious is Kimmy from Shesinherapron here on YT is part of that prepper community. She has been prepping heavily for 2 or more years now, is LDS, and has had some odd behavior recently. Like she literally has a grocery store in her pantry and some side room in her in-laws basement.
Why is food storage odd behavior? Is it because you don’t agree with it? That hardly seems like a good reason to call it odd. In the 70’s when the economy was crashing, gas was only available by odd or even lisc plates and was crazy expensive, and my Dad was laid off from his job and you couldn’t find milk in the grocery store, we lived off of our food storage for almost a year. It’s not for ‘end times’ but for economic disruption be it personal or global. Her pantry will be the first one you want to raid when you need something.
@@cyndimcgrath9617 I totally agree. Unfortunately, it's the wacky Mormon belief system, and its dangerous offshoots that have given it a bad name. I once heard that we are only nine missed meals away from anarchy.
Actually no. 99% of her food would cause me to ha e an allergic reaction, make my disabilities worse, or cause gut shut down due to Celiac. And I said her behavior. Didn't say food holding was weird. Her behaviors lately have and I was an OG subscriber since her youngest was little.
@@lorieann8522I haven't noticed any behavior change. What is different? I love Kimmie but yes she's Mormon. So is Frugal Fit Mom. She doesn't have quite as much food storage as Kimmie but does have quite a bit. I love Kimmie bc she's always trying to get you the best price and keep you updated on price ups and downs. I just watched her live about preparing for the holidays and she seemed normal to me. However I'm a non LDS prepper so having food storage isn't strange to me at all.
Do you believe that our social exposure to shows and other entertainment surrounding paranormal like zombies, etc has contributed to the extremes that people are taking with prepping? Almost like there is a cognitive dissociation from what is real and make believe?
They are sure going to need many many trucks to cart the food, people have been collecting stuff for years 😅 How are they supposed to rebuild? Are they collecting building materials? This ‘plan’ doesn’t seem thought through
People who followed AVOW thought that when Eyring spoke in conference, he was saying things in a sort of code that only those in the know could understand that predicted last days events. I felt I was in the know and could therefor understand what he was really telling the elite.
Has anyone ever analyzed statistics about how many of those who claim to be prepers, how many also claim to be LDS. Does preper community consist of more LDS than other religious beliefs.
I've been a prepper for years although nothing like what the LDS do. I don't have storage rooms full. But I'm not a Mormon and had no idea til 2020 it was a Mormon thing. My chiropractic office is owned by Mormons and the wife had a storage room full of supplies ready to go when the pandy hit LOL
Most of them usually are Jehovas Witnesses, Mormorns, LDS, usually right wing leaning folks. Very weird. I do think prepping is a good thing to do. However, people that take it to the extreme usually do it from a point of fear or beliefs of a war coming soon or dooms day.
Sounds like a truly awful way to live. Preparing for a bad storm, power outages and the like is one thing. Constantly walking around wondering if the day is today, egads.
Why would the prepper community need to be ‘policed’? You do realized LDS aren’t the only ones who want to be prepared or self sufficient? Why would someone being self-sufficient be a threat? I live in a hurricane / tropical storm prone area. When weather is a problem, I am not one of the ones that will be draining resources that others will need. That’s what this is all about.
Preparedness and prepping are certainly different. I think you can be prepared to quite a degree as a person living in the Caribbean. Prepping can take on a zealousness that borders on pathological, exploitative, and even self-fulfilling due to confirmation bias or actual dangerous actions on part of the prepped. Nothing wrong with being prepared, but like people who buy too much fertilizer are monitored, persons who are starting their prepper communities should be consenting individuals. One minute you're prepared, then you are a prepper, then all of sudden, you may be being exploited.
These preppers believe in visions and revelations and the recipients felt they were above others and there have been murders and abuse and evils stemming from the sin of pride.
I totally agree with you. Unfortunately, the wacky Mormon belief system, and its dangerous off shoots have colored the way prepping is seen. A large portion of Americans don't want to starve if the present inflation reaches Wiemar Republic levels in the coming months.
Kind is sad to have to hear Crazy Chad Daybelle validate you were right. But I underst@ne how naive people can get drawn into believing these fantastical things.
As Vice President candidate Tim Waltz says…”Sometimes people just need to mind their own business.” Especially, when the church tells people who to vote for. Keep Church and State separate!🇺🇸
