Mortal Kombat 1 Sub Zero Does NOT Suck!! 

Let's Get This Video 2,000 Likes for Sub Zero! Tons of people are misinterpreting what I said in this video. Being low tier is not the same as being terrible. Shao Kahn in MK11 was actually bad and players were still able to win tournaments with him. It's all about maximizing the tools your character has. My point in this video was that Sub Zero has options and abilities that many characters do not. Which is why his damage is below average. That said, I also mention in this video that Sub Zero should get a buff in some areas and that if he did get buffed all around that it would be fine too. As for the "Pro players say he is bad" keep in mind they play at a different level than you and 90% of players. Against an average MK player you can absolutely win with Sub Zero and in fact you can win consistently. Many pros said Kollector was bad and Sonicfox bodied them with that exact character. They also said D'Vorah was terrible and once again they got destroyed by that same character. They say Nitara is bad and she has already reached top 8 in several tournaments and even won a couple. Possibly because Kameos can make any character good in this game. Sub Zero is definitely low tier, but he is nowhere near terrible. You can absolutely get wins with him just like any other low tier character. You can be hopeful for buffs without downplaying the character. Goro makes his overhead 100% safe and still gives you full combo on hit. Plus he lets you combo off the low.

Love how subzero gets nerfed for doing 50 percent 3 bars but you got raiden and baraka out here doing 50 percent 1 bar now he can barely get 30 percent mid screen with 1 bar 💀💀

I completely disagree. He needs to be buffed And his freeze time needs to put back to the way it was in the beta. Also i believe other youtubers proved he doesn’t actually have 50 50s. Sub zero gets around thirty. Most every other character gets 40 and raiden baraka get 50 geras 60 and scorpion 90%

Sorry Dog but you are clueless about Sub zero's problems. How come you didn't even mention that his ice clone has such a long cooldown and recovery that even blind man can punish it with armour moves. How about that EX clone uses 2 bars for absolutely no benefit whatsoever. How about the fact that all of his strings have gaps between them which you can easily flawless block or armour through. EVERY SINGLE MOVE IN EVERY SINGLE STRING. Try to play sub zero against players who know how to counter him and they will blow you up.

24 frames is pretty reactable for his overhead, idk why you're saying he has real 50/50s.

Don’t forget his ice clone and mid are also nerfed, his mid is 15 frames instead of 11-12

The "mix up” overhead is actually reactable, now compare sub to say Barakas actually 50/50 it’s abysmal.

Yeah sub zero has 50/50s if you have the reaction time of an old man

I think the funny thing is that subzero gets shafted but Raiden,raka,and other characters are doing ludicrous damage for less and gaining more

He's not bad it's just everything he does can be done better by other characters and in most cases easier too, there's a reason one of the most beloved characters in the franchise has no more than 5 mains in top 1000

Sub zero isn’t bad. He’s just infinitely worse than everyone else. Good lows and overhead, decent mixes and pressure. Extremely punishable and predictable character, and some of the worse specials in the game. It’s the fact you need to hit 3-4 combos to kill when every other character only needs 1-2 off any touch

If y’all want an actual good breakdown of subzero watch Mk Tom Brady.

Reactable overhead. There’s no 50/50.

I still think he needs a buff though just a bit to make him feel more rewarding

"he's not bad just use goro" 😂

It's not a 50/50 you can fuzzy block the overhead

All you talked about was his combo damage. Not once did you mention his neutral game. Most of sub zeros best strings, you can flat out armor thru. Which means no pressure. He doesn’t have good advancing moves which means you can out space him pretty easily. His “50/50” is react-able as hell. On top of that he’s mad punishable. Combo damage is just one part of the puzzle. Sub is trash tier.

He needs a buff for sure. Have to work really hard to compete against most characters...his snowball is very slow and then when the slide is blocked you get hit with a 40-50% combo. Can get zoned out so easy so I feel like once you get a combo going it needs to hurt the opponent more for sure.

The problem with his damage isn’t that it’s bad, it’s that it’s bad compared to everyone else. Scorpion has a meterless combo that deals more damage than any sub zero combo you did in this video. Along with that, you didn’t mention that sbubby can’t jail at all. You can armor through the 3rd, and even 2nd hit of all of his strings. And the overhead you mentioned is pretty slow. You’re not hitting that overhead on anyone unless their closing their eyes. Along with that the ice ball is so god damn useless. If your character has a projectile god forbid a fast one, you can use it on reaction and hit him before he can convert off of it. And the ice Klone is really not that good. It’s out for 1 second. So you’re only counter zoning for 1 second. And the worst part, that you couldn’t even hide in that video, is that he gets less damage for using meter. And you keep saying that sbubby isn’t a damage dealer, but in mkx, where you said it started that trend, he dealt 51% with full resources. In mk1 he gets 40% for using full resources. Meanwhile characters like scorpion, raiden, kenshi, and Baraka are getting 50% with 1 meter. If anything you’re trying your hardest to not mention what’s bad about the character. And you keep saying he has 50/50s but you also fail to mention that he only has 1 overhead not tied to a string. And it’s 24 frames. And his other overhead can be armored through, after the first hit, you won’t even get the overhead out. I don’t doubt that you’re not knowledgeable on this subject. But you’re failing to talk about the real problems with this character

- Everyone else 250 dmg and fatal blow combo = 500 dmg.. - Subzero 250 dmg and fatal blow = 380 dmg... Ok, here's the thing. Subzero is amazing however, you genuinely need to use every single thing in his arsenal to make him that good. However every single character is like 4 button hits to go to 50%. I notice this alot in MK 1, the harder to use characters have low damage compared to character that are easier to use and have high damage.. where's the balance.. I don't think he should have pre day one damage but jesus you can hit 290 dmg and then hit a fatal blow and he caps of at 380 damage. You telling me that is balanced when everyone else can caps at 500+ damage ? ... that makes no sense..his multiplier needs a buff because at this point its garbage. Or else the only other way to balance it is drop everyones multiplier so that damage outputs are similar.. Does that mean you cant use him ? Nah he is strong in the hands of player who understands and can execute him with perfection but that skill that NO ONE in this game requires to play therefore the outrage. I would make everyone like him, fine balance between skill and fun. Or buff him a little so you arent hitting a million buttons to simple put 300 damage

Once someone has fought a sub zero 5 times his game plan is done

they need to nerf the 50% 1 bar characters not buff sub zero

The problem I have is the armor gaps in pretty much all of his strings. 12, F12, F123, 212 all have gaps to armor though

He doesn't have as much 50/50 as people keep pushing. He only has one overhead that can extend into a combo without the use of specific cameos or bars. That one overhead only works on scared opponents or opponents who can only block low. The majority of players you meet do not get hit by it. If you miss it, you can special out of it, but that requires you to absolutely know your opponent is going to block it because the window to special out of it is smaller than the flawless block window. Seriously, if the opponent blocks it, then it's too late to react and special out of. If you try to mix up low, the enemy can quickly block low or just armoring through the last hit. Literally had someone tea-bagging my last hit, going low too late and still getting the block off on multiple occasions. Other times, they just interrupt my last hit. Not to mention, all his attacks that end a combo string cannot combo into a special unless you use a cameo. 90% of the roster can combo into a special from any hit to get a free 300+ damage combo while Sub-zero can only deal like 70-90. So I'd argue Sub-zero has the bottom 3 50/50 game. Ice clone only works against players who are running on jet-fuel and red bull. Most players are not getting hit by it. in fact, most players are punishing it. His glacial dive kick is mid. Once you've seen it once, it's only working twice at best. The first for the kick and the second for the light jab after missing the kick which can still be punished. His long-range game is weak asl. Ice slide is EXTREMELY predictable and is as equally punishable. You're better off slowly dashing forward unless you know your opponent likes throwing stuff or Kenshi when he pulls his sword out. His ice ball is slow asl. Most of the time, if the enemy is attacking long, you're getting hit and they're blocking by the time your ice ball is going across the screen.

His Ice clone can be armored through by anything and with his recovery frames being so high they don't even have to guess, they can just see you throw it and react for a punish, and the enhanced version that costs 2 bars is still unsafe as most Kameos can punish it on reaction still. I think he needed a nerf from the beta but i think they went a bit overboard when you have characters who can spend one bar and a kameo for 50%. Not to mention they also slowed everything down, the overhead IS react-able, block low and react to the overhead

they must buff Sub-Zero ASAP

sub zero doesnt have 50/50 his overhead is way too slow to be an actual 50/50, it is completely reactable, even online with 60ms ping. it is considerably slower than the AVERAGE human reaction time which is a 1/5 of a second or faster, and subzero overhead is 24 frames which is well over 1/3 of a second. maybe if youre in 150ping online you cant react but in tournament it will never open anyone up as a mixup because it isnt a mixup.

Playing sub zero is like a minimum wage job, you do alot for little reward

The thing is, its the way he plays. Clones needs to be extended cuz thats his play style

While yes his damage isn't exactly terrible, it is worse than majority of the other cast when they can get 40% for one bar and he barely hits 30% for the same meter. His damage is not the only bad part about him. Ice clone is supposed to be a "safe escape" move and it's not. Ice clone can easily be reacted to and punished. Even ex ice clone is still easily reactable and punishable and it costs 2 whole bars. Also sub physically cannot jail people. All of his strings have 2 different gaps that you can armour through and sub can do literally nothing to stop that. If he tries to bait it, he gives up his turn completely. He also does not have a true 50/50. The overhead is easily reactable even online because of how slow it is, and every single "mix" he has is unsafe. Sub Zero really needs buffs to bring him in line with the rest of the cast

Sub Zero is probably a herald of damage nerfs coming to the rest of the characters.

I only think his overhead is slow af, it’s very easy to react to

Get to demi god with sub zero.. would make for a good video 😂😂

That overhead is very react able unless it’s laggy idk what you’re on about w this 50/50 nonsense

Bro, you completely forget that characters in this game on average have the potential to delete half of your health bar off of one combo alone. You’re right that 30% is good, but that’s only if you isolate that number. If you compare that number to the numbers of literally any other character, that’s horrendously low. In a game as broken and stupid as MK1, 30% from one combo is not good. It may have been good in the past, but now? That shit won’t fly

With sub zero my main yes he needs a buff. But with this character you play more mind games than usual. It's either your opponent calls it right or not and get punished. His pokes are pretty good so I normally follow it up with mix ups that I can cancel out of or commit. You have to be constantly unpredictable or your gonna get punished by the top tier characters. And be mindful with the ice clone while playing characters that can teleport because that move got too nerfed.

Disagree he needs to be buffed his output is significantly different when his counterparts. Ice Klone duration. I think 3 of his strings have gas. His mid got out to 15 instead of 12, probably more. He needs a buff BAD

All I really want is for his f1 mid to be slightly faster (15 frames is really annoying to work around, 11 or 12 would be better) and for Deadly Vapors scaling to be reduced so he has more reason to spend meter on combos.

You can choose to take the low against sub and eat 23-25% MAX. Or you can choose to always block low and react to the overhead, which is super easy. Damage is nerfed to the ground. All of his ice combo extensions scale SUPER BAD. Ice slide is slow on startup, eats projectiles all the time, is super baitable, super punishable, is really slow travel speed (reactable at a distance) and can be punished by back jump almost 100% of the time unless slide itself is a punish. ice spike is punishable on hit, over head is unsafe, low gets no damage, ice clone is purely a counter poke/eat 1 projectile move. Ice ball can’t combo naturally. His projectile is not fullscreen. His strength is in counter zoning, (but he’s a mixup character) and his best move to get damage is a REACTIONARY ice clone. well guess what if they have a teleport (technically anyone can because of kameo) then good bye clone mindgames. Ex clone costs 2 bars and for what? It does nothing a well timed clone couldn’t do. He gets LESS damage for using meter in wayyyyy too many scenarios. His anti wake-up tech bags around 25% for 2 kameos and 2 bars. His mid is 15 frames(not that good) his pressure is lacking, he resorts to reactive ice clone, Ice ball spam, risking the overhead, or down one clone just to open up people… AS A MIX UP CHARACTER!! HE IS JUST BAD. Quit trying to downplay how bad he is. Tell the truth. He is soooo bad

It's not that Sub-Zero is bad, it's that the really good characters in this game are fucked up lol The Sub-Zero nerfs really make me wonder what NRS wants with this game though. If they want lower damage, why didn't they nerf all the other damage? I don't really get it lol

I think they should buff his damage a bit more. How awesome would it be for beta damage but im willing to meet in the middle.

I picked up Liu Kang and was very confused on why his spinning kick isn't his best combo ender. But after some practice i found that the kick is often better when you don't want to use the metere but the dragon is better when you do. It's really fun to discover different ways to play characters in this game

Ok. Sub Zero isn't bad. It's just that every single other characters is better.

Right, lets just forget to mention that sub's strings all have gaps, iceball is 40 frame startup so lol gl using that, you can react to ice clone cancel with any armor..etc etc

Not mentioned: his basic strings all have gaps that can be mashed through his advancing mid is painfully slow his iceball is basically pointless his clone is now very delayed. And he has low damage

The Reason why people are mad is because , almost every character can do 40 + damage . Why can Raiden and not Sub Zero ? and its true , but still I main Sub Zero and he is pretty darn good ;)

Sub-Zero's damage is not a problem. From what I have seen, Sub-Zero's real issues are his combos in theory are good for meterless damage but they are not good in practice. They rely heavily on the opponent making a mistake rather than opening them up. Also his clone is some other weird shit on its own. I get that it is unsafe but the EX version takes two bars and is arguably more unsafe than his normal version. I am baffled as to why it is so costly when it doesn't do anything. Havik has a move that takes two bars and it GUARANTEES a combo because the move after it is unblockable and unavoidable. Its easy to see why its two bars. Sub-Zero's on the other hand does... what exactly? Exactly what is the EX ice clone supposed to do that the normal can't? Anti air?

literally mk tom brady proved he had no 50/50s 💀

Can someone help me? I notice a really strange interaction with subzero's ice clone punch when colliding with reptile's slime ball. Technically the ice clone punch should destroy projectile, but it came up randomly every time. Sometimes they destroy each other, sometimes a smaller slime ball survives and hits me. Plus the graphic effect of the slime ball destroying itself pop up slightly later. I'm getting crazy face reptile with subzero

As a player who used to love MK on the first PlayStation and just recently bought a Ps5, Sub-Zero is incredible for beginners and someone getting back into the mechanics of this game.

you dont even play this game your sub is great in training mode try this vs a good player and come back saying the same

The overhead is 24 frames on start up… it’s barely a 50/50 because of how easy it is to react

It’s not a 50/50 its absolutely reactable, his specials are below average, his damage is below average, his screen control is below average, his projectile below average, has poor conversions, and NEEDS kameo because he gets punished by nearly everything due to poor frame data. He’s easily one of the worse in the game, only saved from unplaybility by kameo’s like goro, or kano.

Sub is bottom tier but hes also B tier I think he'd be fine in a game where baraka and Raiden aren't walking around. Raiden has a safe 50/50 for 50 percent. Sub has a unsafe 50/50 for 32 maybe. I guess what I'm saying is nerf Raiden

I hear you, but ALL the pros have him at the bottom of the tier list for a reason💁🏾‍♂️

I am okay with low damage and wall carry and the 50/50 too but he definitely could a few better frames like scorpion d1 plus 5 on block. How ever sub zero is punishable if he uses ice clone and the B2 is to reactable they should make it a tiny bit faster for make the 50/50 working like a 50/50 .

He doesn’t need a damage buff because he’ll still be bad. He needs his frame data fixed.

He feels sluggish and heavy, which is odd for a ninja

As a sub zero main, he’s pretty good if you know how to use him. The damage is good but horrible compared to a good chunk of the roster. Last night, I was labbing and did a 22 hit combo then hit a fatal blow and it did just as much damage as a baraka meterless, no fb combo. And almost none of the top people use him, he’s used more as a kameo than a fighter. There are fighters who do everything better than he does, and that’s why he needs a buff, bell I don’t even want him to go back to beta, but just enough for him to be actually “viable”.

the gaslighting is crazy. More than half the cast gets the same thing but way more damage(35-40%). Without having to use goro

Meterless damage = more chances to break combos. Think about it

He can get damage, he’s just not safe in literally anything…

I saw someone start finding combos with Sub-Zero's air ground pound and it does crazy damage like there is no scaling on that move

It’s not a mixup if it’s seeable lol. That’s not a guess. Also every major useful string of his has a gap. You may fuck up wi-fi warriors but that’s not working in any offline tournament against half decent players. Sub isn’t trash but he’s definitely gimped.

They nerf Sub-Zero strait into the ground no wonder he turned on Scorpion in the story mode

Titan Shang Tsung should have disguised himself as Titan Kitana. That way you could have Shang Tsung and Liu Kang both fooled.

It’s not just his damage Underdawg, it’s also his mid which got nerfed 3-4 frames and his ice clone is so much worse it’s ridiculous.

Weather he gets buffed or not he’s the only dude I’m using 😂

I mean, sure, he's got a 50/50, but one of those 50s is his back 2, which has 24 start-up frames, which any decent player is going to be able to counter with a standard 6-7 start-up frame standing attack string. Now, sure you can use kameos make it safe, but then you're just adding pressure to a fairly read-able launcher, which is good, but not great. Compare that with Scorpion's forward 4 launcher, which hits high, but only has 17 start-up frames, and is -6 on block, making it safe. I think we can be honest about Sub's shortcomings. If they can reduce his back 2's start-up frames to 19 or 20, I think he'd be in a much better position.

Sub Zero still needs a buff 😅❄️

No wonder he was tempted by Shang Tsung. The guy is done dirty is this timeline.

I suddenly had an idea to use Goro for some weird reason.. 🤔

i shouldn't be shackled by my cameo

He def needs help in the damage scaling department for sure... That EX Ground freeze got hit so hard to the point where it is not even worth it to really spend the bar on sadly... I understand nerfing the scaling if you use the move more than once, but what they did there is a bit absurd hahaha! Great video, regardless of what people are saying I have always played Sub Zero and I love him to death so I am willing to do my best to make him work, I will have to try that Goro assist!

Its just the bad damage combined with the gaps in all of his strings. It sucks that im punished for burning any meter as well. If the gaps were fixed and his DF4 was buffed id be happy.

Is the OH not reactable? Because if it is.. than it's not a 50/50 which is the crux of his whole argument.

Goro can combo out of any throw if you use the stomp with the right timing does like +50-70 damage

Can you do Ashrah just to see what can you do with her? Also cause I main her

I would love see this guy play sub in KL 😂 or anywhere against comp

Found a bug in the game, sub zero ice clone projectile gets stopped by reptile acid bubble after it has already been blocked.

The question is where the Overall Power level should be in mk1. Should the top Tiers be nerfed, or the fallen behind be Buffed?

I think it sucks to have your characters tied to a specific kameo. Yeah goro and kung Lao help subzero but I want to play with characters I like

I don’t think he needs a damage buff. However, his back 2 needs to be like 2 or 3 frames faster. Its too reactable and is almost never worth the risk

if you wanna use bars to amplify his combo damage, use the bar to amplify diving kick.

Ya I just hit grand master and I will say his 50/50 is not real you can react. His clone if your fast enough can be punished with cameo or teleport. If they don’t make the overhead safe with cameo they are dead most characters I have tried get at least 42% off 1 bar. He just feels like a free win when I face him.

Good video dawg. Thank you =)

I love you, man, but this take is just not it. you can start combo with f12, ex fd4, and then hit the overhead, and it makes it safer, sure. until it doesn't. you get poked after f12, because it's -7 on block. you get poked on the combo that is supposed to be safe. Cage's 21 starter is -1, his 11 is 3 on block, -5 with full 112, his 44 is 15 on block. there is no minus, I didn't miss anything. I don't know what's the reason of many people saying "duh you just don't know how to play sub-zero" when breaking his moves down clearly shows that he has a disadvantage just on his combo starters alone. his ice ball takes 40 frames for cast alone, not talking about the speed of ice ball itself. if Sub-Zero casts anywhere else except the full screen, he's getting punished, and if he lands the ice ball from full screen, it thaws out before he can get to the opponent. his only way is ice slide, which knocks opponent down, defeating the purpose of ice ball. yeah, he can use EX and Goro, but 1 bar and 1 kameo just to start a combo?

Me having flashbacks to a 44 hit combo that did 270 damage

I love my mixup of spamming lows until the opponent eventually misses the hammer or eats to many lows, amazing 50/50 gameplay

There is a laundry list of shit that has to be fixed with Sub Zero, let us not just pretend that he is particularly out of this world. The players are not asking for him to be at the level of Jhonny or Liu Kang, but the least they could do is fix his recently broken ice clones which have lost the ability to juggle, his ice ball has to get buffed for a faster start up, and his over-all mobility speed needs to be increased. None of these are unrealistic things to ask.

Sub-Zero is definitely way worse than he was. The damage nerf, the mid nerf and the ice klone nerf were completely unnecessary in my opinion

Let’s be honest .. subzero not being able to combo into his ice ball in this game like the previous entries before it is a CRIME

As someone who mains sub-Zero, Sub-Zero fucking sucks, if you’re opponent knows how to block it’s almost impossible to get combos, his attacks are so slow that you’re pretty much forced to use only pokes & throws & if you have a bad connection those don’t even work a lot of the time. He’s literally the most unsafe character & even if you master him you have to put in way more effort than your opponent to win.

Haven't really played this game yet, but this is good to know! Thanks for the video TrueUnderDawg! ♥️

Underdog was definitely high making this video

Why not use Kung Lao with Sub Zero? He can do most of what Goro can do and you can combo off throws with him.

You didnt even talk at all about the slow start up on all his moves. You just spent 8 mins talking about damage😂😂😂 this analysis is shallow as hell.

The only issue I kinda have with sub zero as a new Mk player, why does freeze reduces the damage by a good amount if he can’t chain freeze, I’m probably just not understanding it

I feel like his down back 4 amplify in the air should launch the other player closer to sub zero. I’m having a pretty hard time using that move to extend combos since I have to cover so much distance.

I noticed that second hit of B2 is actually high, not overhead. Can`t you just duck the second hit and punish then? Goro is high as well tho, meaning he can't really save you in that case.