The real truth is Scorpion is Ed Boon boy🦂 so he gotta keep Sub-Zero at the bottom , under Scorpion because he can’t let Sub-Zero get close to Scorpion
@@thomas4489 online yes. but not really a meta character in mk11. I genuinely believe the person responsible was in college during mk9/MKX life cycle, got their ass mixed, and now that they work for NRS they will do whatever it takes to nuke Sub Zero
The harshest critics are the biggest fans. Hopefully every patch they will give more to each character/kameo because this patch is definitely a step towards the right direction. MK will never be what it was but I still believe in the potential of this game!
Or the Air Ice Kick, despite clearly hitting the opponent sometimes just doesn’t let you finish the combo. Or how trying to start a combo from a crouch will result in an ice ball 50% of the time. It’s so goddamn stupid.
As a subzero main, I agree with everything you said. I never used ice ball because it takes forever to come out and I get punished. The slide is “okay” but I always get punished. Even if I put in slide before their projectile finishes, they have enough time to down block and punish. I have played as other characters and they are so easy to play and get something to work. Subzero is so limited compared to the rest of the cast. Very simple and I hate it. I still play as him but still have so many issues playing as him compared to everyone else.
@@justsomerandom202 I'm not saying that they hate Sub-Zero but it's a fact that Ed Boon is a fan of Scorpion because he said so in an interview years ago. He never said that he hated or didn't hate Sub. He doesn't care for him anyway.
They hate Kung Lao too with what they did to him giving ALL his moves to his kameo. Also when did mk2 Kung Lao have low hat? NEVER! It doesn’t make sense. Give man’s back his moves NRS.
Yeah, he gets crapped on in the 2021 movie, battle of the realms and now despite still being strong as a regular character, he doesn't have access to his amazing moves. This is terrible.
Some don't have regular jobs. their entire channels and livelihood are depended on MK so they're biased asf. Even huge youtubers that play games other than Mk still shill smh idek the community weird any little release gets them happy again. Invasions still a trash game mode, tried ermac I'm already bored, back to other games
I wonder why NRS is so scared to buff up Havik and get rid of excessive gaps in a majority of the male ninjas strings. I agree with the sub changes you want. Reptiles: b131 should only have a gap on the 3rd hit. They fixed 114, so cool, and his f21/f31 should only have a gap on the 3rd hit. Rain: extend the reach to his 2nd hit of 11 and takeaway the gap to the 3rd and 4th hit of 211 (where the water goes up into overhead before the final hit of the string that is). Also, his whirlpool should go away on hit if the opponent jumps in and lands on it. Scorpions: 12, 21, and 33 shouldn't have gaps. Also, make his db2 safe on block at -6. Give him back his teleport launcher with a use of meter or the option to hold down and cancel out of it like MKX and MK11. Also, take away the new string they gave him and give him an f324 low starting kick string like MK11 that f3 can kombo into spear. Last but not least, give scorpion his front flip overhead hard knockdown from MK11. Smoke: Get rid of gaps in his f12 but leave the rest of the gaps for both extended string routes. Get rid of the gap on f31 because it can be upblocked, and let the last hit of b234 come out on block. Sub: i wouldn't mind keeping the gap on 12 if they got rid of the gaps on f12 and 21. But also all the changes Tom asked for. As for all the male ninjas, they should all be able to kombo into cyrax net like peacemaker or recently like Rains buff. Havik needs gaps removed as well and he needs help with some moves pushing characters too far away when he has subby buttons. Give Liu Kang a parry as well as Li Mei only because its so fitting for them. Not that they need it. Nitara needs a lil help, but I haven't played her much to know how to fix it. Other than that the rest of the roster just needs a few gaps removed from certain moves and the game would be much better. As for kameos. They need to make cyrax and lao go back to normal with meter regen, make Darrius meter take half for all his assists, make Stryker run in front of the player like the rest of the kameos so he can't just throw bombs as safe as he is and change a lot of summon moves to ambush that aren't projectiles. Last but not least, add a 2 bar push block and a 1 bar armored flawless block reverse that resets neutral mid screen (2-3 character space away or a full jump in away) but like the recent Ermac trailer.
this video is the best thing you could have made to strike back against people who call you a mindless hater. no one who just hates would make a video talking in depth about frame data changes they'd like to see like this. you put in serious thought to all your proposed changes and it shows a lot of passion for the game
It's sad Sub-Zero is getting crapped on. He is good in 9, but low tier due to how characters are in there. MKX unbreakable is low tier, but grandmaster and cryomancer are good. Mk11 he was seen as the worst character until custom variations came out and he was seen as a top tier, though he couldn't be allowed to use his amazing floor freezing move. Now here he is just getting crapped on and not being able to be strong. This is so sad.
And the worst part is that it's so easy to fix him. Just speed up some of his strings to remove gaps, remove the cd of ice clone, and reduce the damage scaling a bit
MKX and Mk11 he was broken. He’s really good in this game with Kameleon, he gets throw combos and armoured launcher, his keep away is one of the best in the game. I honestly don’t understand the Sub slander he is good in this game especially with Kameleon. I don’t think Yall realize how huge having an armoured launcher and throw combo is…
Only Sonic Fox said he was low tier before customs. When the fact was kano,kotal and shao kahn were all worse. Sub was always top 10 in mk11 before customs. He received 0 buffs and 0 nerfs for the whole run of the game
@@louis550 His "Armored launcher" Only works on a select few kameos and you've missed Tom Brady's entire point. Sub should not have to rely entirely on Kameos. Barely any of the other cast do, kameos are just extensions to them. For sub it's everything And having Khameleon doesn't fix how shitty he is, you still have to make sure you're opening up your opponent, and sub can't do that with the buttons he has. His keepaway can be hard countered by Quan-chi with just a single button Mkx sub was broken? Ok so just choose literally any other character on that mkx roster that can counter him, bc everyone was busted. Lastly Half the cast if not all can combo off their throws with a kameo, sub is not special.
To be honest all your sub points are valid. People hate playing sub cause players run throw the clone out and just spam projectiles behind it. All you have to do is get a cameo to counter it. The sad part is ppl prob wouldn’t complain as much if people actually used him properly to apply pressure and traps and then use it defensively to keep an advantage.
Players hate fighting against Sub-Zero because he forces you to play cautiously. You can't run up and try to mindlessly 50/50 him or throw out random moves hoping to connect. He slows down mindless aggression.
@@nwobw that’s why people don’t like players that actually play the game with subzero properly for the reason you stated. I’m referring to the other 90% of sub players that immediately get distance throw out the clone and spam a million projectiles behind it with the occasional yolo slide start to finish. It’s no attempt to even play the game and is annoying to waste your time playing against. Like I said it’s def ways to blow it up and still get hits and punish it. It’s just boring playing people who spam start to finish that claim they are just zoning when they clearly don’t know the difference. Spammers just do 1 or 2 special move over and over with no strategy involved where a zoner still tries to control space on the screen in a strategic manner while setting up a chance to take advantage of an opponent depending on the situation
I’ve been dickin’ around with Block Breaker in MKXL lately. Minus the knockdown, I think added it to MK1 would “save” the game. If added, they could go bananas with the Kameos and not have to nerf everything.
I think I’ve found new hope. One day Ed Boon will step down and everyone at NRS will be canned and the studio and IP will be sold off by WB to people who care. We will get an actual good story again. The gameplay will be top notch and characters will be WHOLE! No dumb gimmicks like variations or assists. Just a whole character with their entire kit along with some new additions. It’s going to be amazing. It’ll take a while to get there but I have hope this will happen😂
If anything that shows even more how much they hate Sub-Zero 😂 They took arguably the better Sub-Zero who is Kuai Liang and made him Scorpion like wtf.
Hopefully we get noob saibot as playable character and not as kameo. Do you know what would be great if they make all the kameos playable on the main roster.
@@mrnozchalazt7199 No lol like it shows they hate scorpion More than anyone subzero’s always been the true poster boy lol. once again there are not 1 but 2 subs in the game with no hanzo even around(dnt tell me kameo) they would never let anyone else be sub or noob but ig anyone can scorpion which is why they keep doing…Harumi is next smh, mean while the same ppl who’ve always been sub are still sub while scorp keep getting replaced??..he’s the only 1 who been stripped of their legacy..Bi hans going back to noob even tho it should be Hanzo smh
If you were really a Sub-Zero fan you'd be playing Scorpion in this game, not this Sektor wannabe abomination to Mythologies. They literally turned Scorpion into Sub-Zero so just play him with a blue season 3 skin like I do. Scorpion fans are the ones that got it the worst when you think about it, Hanzo's gone and his rival took his mantle.
When it comes to.sub zero its specifically cuz they can't stand you Tom . Thats really what it is . If they could get rid of.sub zero to.spite u tom and.not face backlash they would
I remember everybody played the original MK because of how cool JC and the Ninjas were. Imagine the look on all our faces when MK2 came out and we find out jobber Lu Kang won the tourney and was the hero of the story. NRS has no love for the characters that popularize the franchise.
So many people when trying to buff sun go overboard your proposed changes don’t change the intention they had with the move, just making it fit into the game keeping their vision intact
@@DorkLord69 There's are fast. Yeah predictable because at this point you know how a smoke player operates. But how exactly is a mid screen baraka projectile punishable without armor? Johnny's kick is punishable but it is exceptionally faster than subs slide The point is that for someone as slow as sub, to have all of his moves be punishable, regardless of on hit or block. Kills the character
Thanks for making this video MKbrady. I honestly think subs 2 meter ice clone is useless. First off the pay off for it is not worth it because even when it does hit the Opponent is in an awkward position to combo that move should be taking out the game entirely I think they should keep regular meter enhanced ice clone but take that move out and replace it with unbreakable armor from mkx of course should have a good amount of cooldown but if they give him that it will help sub with a lot of zoning since his ice balls are so slow.
I mean kameos have more than 1 move. Stryker also has a low/overhead mix himself yet no one uses him for that. He could step in and instead of completing the string. You low or overhead to throw them off even more. And put in their heads that is something that is on the table. For Sub changes. Remove some of the scaling he has to take. The more bar he spends the less damage he does. Open up his combo routes so you can see something other than his bnb over and over again. Like making his dive kick hit them then and then pop them up to give him another juggle option for combos and spend his meter on another option other than Deadly Vapours.
there are two possibilities either this patch is a desire to do things well or it's just a bait, in the case where it's a bait your character is screwed and will have to wait for the next mk
Never in the history of fighting games has a character controlled neutral and punished players for doing anything like Sub Zero clone. That’s why he is hated and that’s why I love playing him till the day I die.
Hey Tom, I was looking over some old videos of Sub Zero in the beta. The Ninjakilla vs Xombat (Lui vs Sub) video, and Ninjakilla also says "I have to play so lame against sub zero" something along the lines. So it got me thinking why do you people just hate chasing so much? Like it's not fun but it's a valid playstyle.
yeah I think he'll get more stuff for season 6. I hope its not because they are killing him FOR Noob. It's multiverse; you can have Both!! & Bi-han needs to stick around for the Cyber initiative.
This game is still frustrating. Every time I play I feel restricted. Movement, combo potential, and creativity all feel restricted and limited. IT SUCKS. The devs really put more effort into preventing cool things than allowing cool options.
Okay my only concern about sub zeros ice clone is exactly what Tom said if he did have no cool down then you can just spam it indefinitely and you would be left with characters who would just zone him out non stop or like he said have to use a character who can teleport, but that leads to such scrubby gameplay which I thought it’s what he argues against, you would see less people engage up front with sub zero and see something like Jade vs sub zero in mk 11 all over again, I think his biased opinion really shows in this one. This is why that move has been such a disaster to balance out. At the very least I would say yes give him a lesser cool down on his ice clone and definitely let the ice clone last longer. I can see if they did remove the cool down completely to the ice clone that at the very least not have him be able to perform the move if the opponent is up in front of you so players can engage with him head on. I think the reason sub zero has a cool down in the first place is because unlike Kenshis sento stance even though you have two character that can hit you at least you can still hit kenshi one time and sento will be cancelled out for some time, while the clone there is nothing you can do the moment sub zero puts it front of you and you get hit by it your immobilized completely for full combo. I think the comparison he has made between those two fighters in the past is night and day.
I haven’t played mk1 in months but isn’t the clone: one bar for one extended clone, one bar for multiple clones if triggered after the first clone and two bars for extended clone and 2 extra?
Its all relative. The enhanced clone by itself isn't anything special, just faster but that's costing you bar. The one with multiple clones only works as something to launch people into the air, or create a barrier but even then. Just use one projectile and the clone is gone. Besides like shown in the video, any character that has an armored punish will kill you for doing an enhanced milti clone.
I don't understand the gaps in EVERY combo string. I don't understand wth they did with the clone. I don't understand why all of a sudden, now he can't use the ice ball in combo strings. And I don't understand the point/use of deadly vapors if u don't use a bar of meter, it's duration time is horrible
I know that this sounds a bit slow probably but they also hate Kung Lao so he should be a villain or antagonist in a way like it seems like they keep limiting him so why not🤷🏽♀️
Why is anyone still complaining about this game unless they literally don't have the skill to play better fighting games? MK1 is technically MK13. Between the first MK and MK13, when has Ed Boon ever produced gameplay better than pre-existing fighting games? Which MK is better than Super Turbo? Was MK9 a better fighting game than Tekken 3 (1997)? Jesus Christ....
They must hate Kung Lao more because all his moves went to his Kameo. Hope KL get some new moves that are not projectiles. Btw enhanced projectiles for KL don’t ADD SHITT to the projectiles
On the new season trailer, Sub zero was the ONLY character to get beat during his new skin display. That is how much they hate sub zero. Useless iceball, ice clone has a cool down so long its next to useless. VEry low damage and combo options.
(Ba)Boon jerks off on Scorpion so what other reason do you need? Ever since MK4, when Tobias had little creative input, Boon was shoving his favorite down everybody's throat and taking a shit on Sub-Zero in the process. The real disrespect began in MK9 when Sub-Zero got his ass handed to him by Scorpion in every single piece of promotional material. Even the menu was Sub getting his head blown off by Boon's yellow cocksucker. Maybe this is the last MK Boon handles (hopefully), so he wants to go out by taking a massive dump on Sub-Zero, who he perceives as a threat to Scorpion's popularity. Since the man is so infantile it hurts.
I think it'll happen given some time I was little annoyed rain got a buff considering sub is the way he is I'm not even a sub player but Jeeze dawg reptile goes gmcrazy now my boy dropped a 469 combo on my head earlier lol
The modern FGC's need to cater to new players/viewers above all else certainly doesn't help. Unless you understand what the Sub player is doing, a bait-and-punish, lockdown zoner may not be as cool as infinite offense. I'm not even a sub player necessarily, but I want all these characters to function. It's kind of crazy that I think all of these characters were more complete in MK11.
When Tom has to keep trying hard to be positive and not say anything negative tells me all I need to know, wr still don’t have towers of time, Kyrpt, paywalled content, online server issues
Clone also has issues against poking.. Thats why first clone being lower would help. Enhanced clone doesnt do anything against teleports or stomps such as Quan and Mileena.. Even when they dont enhance specials. Why is that, no idea... Also, being so unsafe I wonder why we cant throw it as a projectile. Clearly ice ball is trash.
Can you do a “ppoke ppoke poke ppoke, oh stole my turn, oop still my turn” simulation with Nitara and subzero lol 😢I always get beat by him Cause Nits is my main.
Late comment as always. Let's say NRS ''really hates Sub Zero'' why keep him in the game any longer. Let's start a petition to Terminate forever from the game series Subby + Scorppy. And instead beg Ed Boon to replace the fire and ice duo with Blaze and Glacius. They can become the new face of Mortal Kombat.
Pretty obvious what NRS is doing. Create a DLC and make them OP so people buy and think they are good. Nerf that character after the majority of sales have happened. Create a new OP character and get people to buy rinse and repeat.
For all you people saying sub is bad he’s not he’s probably the character that gets the most out of khameleon in the game which already makes him broke cause of how broke she is but even without her he’s at worst mid tier
This is going to be a funny comment, I’m a okay online player, and have a positive win ratio but for some weird reasons, I can beat any character except for Subzero 😂 as a reptile main, something happened like 3 months ago and I can’t beat sub zero mains to save my life. Yet I destroy JC mains all day. This video was helpful bcuz I didn’t know you could punish in these ways.
That whole "pick a different character" is bullshit. Subzero is my favorite MK character. For him to feel so not viable hurts. He's the one I want to play. Yeah I can play Reptile and I can play Smoke and Havok. But I want to play subzero. But unfortunately in these games, he's either meh or crap and hated. Or he's really awesome and VERY hated. It sucks man.
Sub zéro is so disjointed, there is no fluid feeling... It only exists with its kameo and I'm not sure. Every attack is punishable, he has no shield. The slightest of his blows and painfully slow. His sequence with the mass is so random that with the same timing, so many different situations can happen. On top of that it is buggy in the corners. You cannot follow up after a rebound, on the ground, a clone. He will inevitably throw his ball even if you make the right combination. It's so ridiculous... Yet I spent hours training to push it as far as possible. But when you see the other characters using 26-hit combos without difficulty, it becomes dramatic. But, despite everything, I remain faithful to my sub, to life and death
To complete, its vapors reduce damage. Even that's annoying... When is it normal to reduce damage when you use your powers? I won't even talk about his mid-air kick special attack. Who attacks the ankles but is blocked if the opponent remains on guard at the top, middle and bottom?! Please, it's a big joke... And today, still no improvement patch even if only to improve at least one of its flaws. It's so frustrating when for you, the Mortal Kombat franchise only cares about your main character.
The Sub-Zero hate is really simple actually: And I'm answering this in the name of all casual players now. There is no worse feeling in any fighting game compared than when you jump into an ice clone. And jump into it again and again and again and again. Because it's your fault. You jump, then see the ice clone and ave half a second to see yourself land inside the ice clone. And then you watch Sub-Zero approach and hit you. Tom Brady might not like casual but the fact is that the majority of people playing Mortal Kombat are and always will be casuals. Even when "all the casuals move on to other games" there are still way more casual players than good players left and those continue jumping into ice clones and feeling bad. Me personally, I hate the feeling too, because as I said, it's my fault / it happens often / it makes me feel like an idiot / it gives Sub-Zero players free hits. I would never want to see the ice clone nerfed though (unless it's absurdly broken). But not many casuals have the same mindset. Most casual players just cry.
alot of characters put you in stun states. If youre getting yourself trapped by a character like this and you make no effort to avoid it that shouldn’t be the characters problem. Unforutnately most casuals dont see it like this and you lose out on otherwise interesting character quirks
I think Sub-zero is good, but NRS has tampered way too heavily with his toolset. So much so, it takes me out of the game, and it frustrates me. I wish Sub had at least one good thing, to make up for all the bad.
