I don't understand this continual argy-bargy about whether this or that aircraft was "the best". For a start you have to compare like with like, and the Mosquito and the P38 had completely different missions during WWII. What I'm really impressed with is that these two aircraft, each beautiful and historical in its own way, are flying at all. Great to see!
hmmm I believe your confused there's no mistaking the mossies Merlin's , the Alison's were not in the same league as the Merlin's, that's why they put Merlin's in the P51s to make its performance much better
@@d53101 They didn't really compare... The Allison lacked a turbo supercharger and was more of a low altitude fighter/ ground support aircraft..... The Packard/Merlin was supercharged and was a high altitude fighter/ bomber escort. They all had a role they filled. My two personal favorites were the P40 and the F6F.... The Prat & Whitney supercharged 2800 double wasp radial.....was a monster of a engine.. 😃
The thing these two aircraft share, to some extent, is their innovative designs. The P38 with twin fuselage, counter rotating props, tricycle under cart and turbo-supercharged engines; the Mosquito with its wooden frame and cottage industry production. Marvellous aircraft. Two of my favs.
Notice the difference in sound level between turbocharging and supercharging. I have great admiration for the P38 but if i close my eyes...the Mossie is a full orchestra.
Whenever I see these planes of that generation, whether fighter, bomber, transport, whatever the mission, I think of those men who laid it on the line each and every day on the front lines, and every time they went up to do battle. They lived, fought, laughed, cried, and fought some more. A lot of them died. More came home, rebuilt a shattered world, and carried scars, visible and invisible, forever more. When I see these birds fly, I don't get hung up in which was the fastest, most beautiful, best this, that, whatever. I think of those who held the line and did their duty in circumstances most people can't possibly fathom. To all of you, thank you for your sacrifice.
Damn man WELL SAID !!!! You nailed the TRUTH of the matter !!! Limies still BUTT HURT they had to BEG for help and they received it yet they are still pissed and chipping their buck teeth trying to tell the world how "great" they are..... yet "WE..." know the REAL truth !!!! As YOU stated !!!!
Yeah, couldn't agree more. I'm old enough that I knew that generation. My uncle who died in northern France in '44, his cousin two weeks later in the Pacific, and the dozen or so that made it back. Simple, honest and very scared working class kids who stepped up in a way that's impossible for young Americans to understand, unless they read history (for which U-tube videos are not a substitute.) As much as I miss my dad's generation, I'm glad they're not alive to see the current resurgence of Nazism because it would have bewildered their minds and broken their hearts. What most of us have forgotten is that WWII united us as never before or since. We were a bitterly divided country in 1940, until 3 things happened. The first was that the original America First organization got busted by J Edgar Hoover himself for conspiring with the Nazis. time.com/5414055/american-nazi-sympathy-book/ The second was the signing of the Atlantic Charter by FDR and a reluctant Churchill on a battleship off Newfoundland in August, 1941. The 8 simple precepts of this vitally important but nearly forgotten declaration laid out not only why we opposed fascism and all forms of authoritarianism but also gave us a very clear vision of a fair, peaceful and sustainable postwar world...which we disastrously turned our backs on almost immediately after the Japanese finally surrendered in August, 1945. www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/atlantic-charter The third event was of course Pearl Harbor. My point is that Pearl Harbor would not have galvanized & united us as dramatically and as comprehensively as it did without the other two events that had already woken us from our sleepwalk into authoritarianism in the late 1930s when corporations, evangelicals, far-right paramilitary groups and the Republican party joined forces to crush FDR and his New Deal policies. And when most of those frightened boys came back home after the war, they carried those convictions for the rest of their lives: just quietly going about doing the impossible, day after day, without bragging or drawing undue attention to themselves. This is what we need to rekindle: this sense of purpose and sacrifice for the common good. God bless those old boys.
@@chrisdechristophe Yes, when I get a scanner. Actually, I forgot about this, thanks for reminding me, I've got a few pics of his squadron and even some camels.
If you can render a good 20X30 Inch poster photograph that is clear, I will buy that from you for $200 USD on the spot! Let me know! Black n white or Color, doesn't matter.
As weird as I still think it is to have "favorite" WWII aircraft, I will confess that the P-38 and the Mosquito have always been mine, although I also love the Fairy Swordfish and the PBY Catalina (and these last two were old, slow planes that played absolutely crucial roles in the war...)
@@louispetherbridge9754 The US almost built the Mosquito under license but political forces within the air force meant that they went to develop their own P-38.
@@SuperSeriouSam Yes it was by being a bomber that could do many other things whilst the Lightning was a fighter that could do many other things. The issue of the Mosquito being considered for being built under licence by the USA is covered here. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-H3B2S6Rn36w.html
What is beautiful about the ugly P 38? It looks awkward and as they say if it looks right it is right, well the P 38 certainly was not right in so many ways.
Both aircraft look just right; the Lightning was designed by Clarence Kelly, the same guy who designed the SR-71. The Wooden Wonder was perfect in its many uses. Geoffrey DeHaviland was a genius. Both aircraft did much to help win that war.
Kelly himself was not so happy with the P 38, he tried for months to solve the very bad aerodynamic problem, then he tried to get Rolls Royce Merlin engines to replace the Allisons to improve the poor reliability and performance. The P 38 worked in the Pacific but was not good in Europe.
What surprised me, was that the shell, was solid metal, no explosive at all. Probably armour piercing , because they were aimed at the sides of the Sub , and when they penitrated, would smash the engines etc , sending shrapnel everywhere, killing the crew. Pretty much like what happends in Tanks.
Scooter Grant it’s a disgrace that none are being restored to flight in the U.K. The De Haveland museum in Hertfordshire has 1 restored (not flying), 1 being restored (not flying) and an original prototype to be restored (not flying). In the U.K. we have publicly funded restorations of everything from art to ships, but no Mosquitoes. Even the RAF museum is dumbing down its exhibitions, focusing more on how diverse they are and seemingly embarrassed that they ever fought, shot anyone down or bomber anyone. WOKE Britannia 😡🤬🤯
@@MrDaiseymay There is either one or two in N.Z being fixed up. There are quite a few in the works at the moment. You should check wikipedia and follow the websites the information comes from. Look for mosquito aircraft wikipedia and scroll down to survivors/remaining aircraft or something like that.
@@alanmorris8783 There is a project to built one but the CAA have objections to having one fly in the UK and will not allow the NZ built ones to fly here for some reason. We did have both a flying P-38 and Mosquito in the UK until 1996 when both were lost in fatal crashes at airshows.
Always loved the Lightning. But have to admit the Mossie ticks all the boxes for me in terms of innovation, flexibility, toughness and armament. The plane that made Goering realise the Nazis had lost the war!
@@stevennaylor4053 read the below quote from Goering! In 1940 I could at least fly as far as Glasgow in most of my aircraft, but not now! It makes me furious when I see the Mosquito. I turn green and yellow with envy. The British, who can afford aluminium better than we can, knock together a beautiful wooden aircraft that every piano factory over there is building, and they give it a speed which they have now increased yet again. What do you make of that? There is nothing the British do not have. They have the geniuses and we have the nincompoops. After the war is over I'm going to buy a British radio set - then at least I'll own something that has always worked.
My uncle was killed in a Beaufighter training in Australia. Wouldn't pull out of a dive. Trouble is we can't get any info out of the RAAF about the incident, just reports from men in his squadron
@@bluebird802 I HAD THE SAME PROBLEM OVER THE DEATH OF MY HALF BROTHER, HIS HALIFAX BOMBER WAS HIT BY ANOTHER WHILE ON THE LAST BOMBING MISSION OVER GERMANY --5 DAYS FROM WARS END. ONLY RECENTLY, HAS A FRIEND DISCOVERED, FROM LUFTWAFFE DOCUMENTS, THAT A JU88 NIGHT FIGHTER FIRED ON ONE BOMBER, DAMAGING FLIGHT CONTROLS, CAUSING THE COLLISION AND CRASHES. I TOLD THE RAF, BUT THEY WEREN'T INTERESTED.
Ted Theobald NOT true !!! any version of the P38 was faster than any version of the mossie !!! Look up the war time flight tests of both planes and educate your dumb ass !!! DUUUUHH!!!!!
Wilbut snoring tractor If you knew how to look up flight tests it might help, the fastest P 38 414 mph, the fastest Mosquito 424 mph but using nitrous oxide that went up to 437 mph.
The Mosquito, made from the only composite of the day (plywood), was the first stealthy aircraft at the dawn of radar. One of it's very successful roles was as a low level intruder into occupied Europe. It could out run many fighters of the era at selected altitudes. Two Merlins are better than one if you are far from home!
@@brettatton You’re the one making the claim that the Mosquito was stealthy so there’s some onus of proof that lies with you. Radar sees whatever reflective material is in the airframe. There was more than 300 kgs of lightweight metal in the Mosquito airframe to start with. All the nacelles, the radiators and their fairings, cockpit framing, etc., not to mention the thousands of fasteners, weaponry, fuel tanks and control components. We haven’t even mentioned the engines and propellers yet. Plywood is not a radar absorbent material. To some degree, it is transparent to radar, in the same way that the walls of your house do not prevent you from using your WiFi or your mobile phone. Stealth is a modern concept that has been co-opted for this. There were certain anti-radar measures in WWII which were employed by both sides but they consisted of jamming by use of interference signals or a thing called Window, which is the first example of chaff. The blame of this nonsense must really be laid at the feet of Reimar Horten, one of the two brothers who developed the German flying wings which culminated in the stillborn Go229 project. In his post WWII life, Horten lived in South America where he spent a lot of time making some pretty far fetched claims about what he and his brother Walter had done (Walter was having none of it). All Reimar succeeded in doing was to make a nuisance of himself and he became something of a gadfly. When the rumours started that the United States had developed a stealthy aircraft - which was known incorrectly as the F-19 at the time - Reimar chimed in and started making some pretty baseless claims about the 229, including but not limited to the claim that its plywood construction and its use of carbon in the glue were deliberately done to confuse radar. The fact is that there is no record of any of this in any of the surviving material and it was not backed up by Walter. Later on, Reimar claimed that the B-2 was an extrapolation on the 229 design. The use of carbon in the glue was not done for reasons of stealth but because German glue at that time was of such poor quality that the Hortens had to invent their own brew. Then came a quasi-documentary on the Hysterical Channel which basically advanced all of Reimar’s claims and coupled with some rather simple testing claimed to prove them. This, of course, was arrant nonsense. The tests were done only to prove the shape and did not include any of the aircraft’s metal components, particularly the engines and undercarriage and the sheet metal panels which were used to cover large areas of the airframe, despite the bulk of it being plywood. GIGO, as they say. Set up a badly constructed test - or worse, one designed to prove an incorrect hypothesis - and you will get a garbage answer. So now this same garbage argument has been co-opted for the Mosquito. The same incorrect assumptions about its wooden construction, combined with recentism and a poor understanding of how radar works, have been used to construct this bogus claim that the Mosquito was a stealth aircraft. It wasn’t. You may not have absorbed this but this doco points out - as do all the others - that the Mosquito was used at low altitude and high speed to make it so much harder to get a bead on it _and to evade German radar._ There are lots of techniques used to confuse or minimise radar signature. Construction materials are only one and just because plywood is non-metallic, that doesn’t mean it is a solution. If it was, I’m sure we’d be seeing a lot more plywood drones flying around than we are. There are surface treatments, faceting, radar absorbent materials (both structural and superficial) and a host of other things, some of which are probably still secret. The Mosquito’s best defence against radar was flying at low level. In that respect, it was probably the first interdiction/strike aircraft and was definitely influential in the design of the F-111 and Tornado. It was also influential in the design of the SR-71 in its PR role because it was fast, unarmed and flew at high altitude.
@@brettatton Why? Because I have interests and can articulate a considered point of view? Mate, you asked for information and you got it. Gratis. If you can't stand being challenged then get off the internet.
The Germans used to call the RAF Mosquito planes and pilots "the flying bandits" they would get in fast and low and often undetected until the bombs hit their target, then destroy an airfield full of German me109s fighter planes kill a thousand Germans with cannon fire then once out of ammo get the fuck outa dodge and head home at over 400mph..... great planes and they done some of the most daring high value raids of ww2 and at the best survivability ratio were very effective for ww2 standards.
MercyReaper.......Where the hell do you get your info ????? FB mossies carried 2 500# bombs....IF they had MG & Cannon.......and very few of them could hit 400MPH !!!! Only the later models with the LATER engines !!! Look up the performance specs before spouting your Lies and BULLSHIT !!!!
Seriously, MercyReaper, that comment of yours is just ridiculous. 1) the Germans didn't call them "the flying bandits", that's bullshit, 2) many aircraft were flown "fast and low" at various times; not just Mosquitos, 3) technically they were designated Bf 109s, not Me 109s, 4) I very much doubt that 1000 German's were ever killed by cannon fire during a Mosquito raid and 5) there is no way that any Mk of Mosquito could reach 400 mph at low level. In short, read (extensively) then comment!
The Mosquito is so under-rated, the speed, range, payload and maneuverability aside, it was nearly invisible to radar and required practically no scarce materials to produce! The P-38 also a genius adaptation to its theatre and foe.
The Mosquito WAS a good dog-fighter. There was one particular incident saw a number of Mosquitos being jumped by the deadly Focke-Wulf FW190. The Mosquitos shot down five of the enemy in return for three of their own in the dogfight. So, not a good dog-fighter, EH?
Sure pissed off the Kriegsmarine, when it fired a 57mm 6pound shell through a u-boat.... more than one...sank in sight of St Nazare on its way home, all but four of the sailors were rescued.
Yes, both superb aircraft flown by extremely brave Allied pilots who helped give us our freedom we so much take for granted. All this rubbish about which plane was better !. Its just a shame so few of each type survives today. Good health to all from the UK.
I went to East Kirkby last week and by chance the Mosquito was going to just taxi about with a paying punter, I didn't watch but made sure I stayed just long enough to hear her start up, what a sound!
+javamann1000 yes the rolls merlins were supercharged, I'm pretty sure the p38 used the allison v12 and they used turbochargers instead of the 2 speed centrifugal blowers that the Merlin used, which is why the p38s are quieter than other ww2 aircraft and you can hear that turbo whistle sometimes too.
*The British Bombers and Fighters were so great that they wouldn't even attempt Precision Daylight Bombing, or they did and the Germans ran the Cowards out of town with their inferior Aircraft and Tactics* *The British were relegated to very inaccurate Night time Bombing, or Area Bombing because the British couldn't hit the Broad Side of a Barn without their little Gnat Bomber* *American 4 engine Bombers flew with 10 man crews. The Planes had Armor Plate. The Planes had 10+ .50 Caliber Brownings and their Ammo. Flew at High Altitude. Flew Long Range Missions. Flew in ever growing Large Formations. Flew Precision Daylight Raids. Shot at Opposing Fighters.* *I wouldn't want to be within a 1000 ft of a 500 lb General Purpose Bomb going off, much less have a Stick of 8 of them going off in rapid succession through my neighborhood* *I think the British have demonstrated time and time again how brave they were*
What I love is that both birds are TOTAL WAR BIRDS. One is a fugly bird and the other is pure grace.like watching a Swan lake ballerina but yet both are so majestic and soooo deadly.
One of the things about the mosquito that always makes me proud of it is the things the crews got up to in it. They seemed to thrill in its endless capability. They’d wait until that odious creature Göebbels was ready to make a big radio speech in Berlin, race over there and lob 4000lb cookies at him halfway through his ranting, causing him and his cronies to run for the shelters on live radio. They patrolled the night fighter airfields and ruined their evenings. They hammered the Gestapo, personally, in their jails, their barracks, their headquarters. They pretty much did everything that required a big nasty bomb or a hail of 20mm shells in a hurry along with pathfinding, nightfighting, anti-shipping, anti-submarine, photography, train hunting, barge sinking, transport killing and goodness knows what else.
I'll tell you what else John. take a look at Mark Feltons documentary on youtube. Mosquitos were flown by British Airway's crew's dressed in RAF clobber, on a regular flight to neutral Sweden, from Scotland. Collecting Gold, high quality Ball Bearings, important documents--etc AND--the Danish Nuke Scientis Niels Bohr who later was flown to the USA to work on the Atomic Bomb. Fantastic ! worth taking a look.
No they didn't. 6 Mossies' in two waves lobbed a few 500lb bombs into Berlin in January 1943 when Goring and Goebbels were going to make Speeches. The 4000 lb bomb modification didn't happen until later. One of the Mossie;s didn't return, being shot down by AAA.
@@thethirdman225 Nope, while the maker's didn't have that in mind, it was later discovered that the Radar image was very slight. A accidental bonus. They're the best.
@@MrDaiseymay This is a reverse engineered myth and no such data exists to support it. Stealth is a modern concept designed to defeat modern X-band fighter radars, which are in the 7-11 GHz range. WWII radars were in the 50-500 MHz range and saw things very differently. While the primary structure of the Mosquito might have been made of wood, there was still plenty of metal in it, including but not limited to engines, cowlings, propellers, undercarriage, weapons, cockpit and tens of thousands of fasteners. We haven’t even talked about things like shaping or the carbon content of the glue. The Mosquito’s standard method for defeating radar was to fly at tree top height, which they did on all their well-known missions. If the aircraft had had a reduced radar signature, there would have been no need to undertake this extremely dangerous practice. The only other radar countermeasures used in WWII were things like Window, a primitive version of chaff which was introduced by the British in 1943 and diversion raids, which had the radar looking in the wrong direction.
Merlin engine weight: 1,640 lb (744 kg) 2 each equals 3,280 lb. Hispano 20mm cannon (made under license) Weight (complete): 68.7 kg (151 lb 7 oz) 4 each equals 606 lb. M1919 Browning .303 (made under license) Weight: 31 pounds 4 each equals 124 lb. Total weight: 4,010 pounds (1,826 kg) Early production Spitfire weight: 4,306 lb (1,953 kg)
The P38 was a very good aircraft, used mainly in the pacific theatre, against slow but highly manoeuvrable Japanese aircraft. And did OK.The Mosquito went everywhere it needed to go, including Berlin in almost absolute safety. NO other aircraft could do that, British, American, Japanese, German, Russian, Cough arr Italian.
The P-38 was also highly successful in the MTO and destroyed a lot of German and Italian aircraft. About 20% of P-38 production was used for unarmed photo recon. That would be about 2,000 aircraft. The photo recon aircraft were a little faster than the fighter versions. Around 10% of the photo-recon P-38's were lost on missions (about 200) from all causes over the course of the war.
@@danzervos7606 my friend but fact of history is from a quote in the you tube video Spitfire 944 about a USAAF recon pilot is that he's a most of USAAF recon unites ditch the P38 's for Mosquito's and Spitfire's that were better at that job
American contribution By 1941, prompted by the British experience, Americans began to understand the need for a much expanded air reconnaissance concept. The F-series, which denoted photographic reconnaissance, was then led by the F-3A, a modified A-20 Havoc. Thanks in large part to the advocacy of the Director of Photographic Intelligence, the also very controversial Colonel Minton Kaye, a run of 100 Lockheed P-38s were set aside for modification to F-4 standard, incorporating the trigonometric mount that both Kaye and Cotton had pioneered prior to the war. Despite the promising performance of the F-4, there were so many technical problems with the early versions that the model was largely rejected by its crews when it did reach combat zones. The RAF rejected the P-38, as well.[24] The first U.S. operational reconnaissance experience was gained in the Australian theater. The top name to emerge was that of Colonel Karl Polifka, an extremely aggressive pilot who developed many of the tactics that would later become standard. Operating from Port Moresby to Rabaul, his F-4-equipped 8th PR squadron encountered serious problems reducing it at one time to one aircraft, but the valuable experience gained was shared by Polifka when he returned to the U.S. in 1943.[25] When the United States and Britain invaded French North Africa in November 1942, the hastily improvised reconnaissance capability was quickly checked by reality. President Franklin D. Roosevelt’s son, Colonel Elliott Roosevelt, led the American reconnaissance assets and in February joined with RAF units in the multinational Northwest African Photographic Reconnaissance Wing (NAPRW). At that point the Wing had found the F-4 unsatisfactory, the F-9 or B-17 Fortress unable to survive over enemy territory, and the new British de Havilland Mosquito to be the most promising reconnaissance platform. British squadrons in the Mediterranean took over the slack left by the Americans. Numerous other technical and tactical problems virtually brought American reconnaissance to a halt; but it rebounded swiftly, and by the time of the invasion of Sicily in July (Operation Husky), a very credible joint capability existed, the NAPRW comprising South African, Free French, and New Zealand units as well as RAF and USAAC units. By that time, new F-5 models of the Lightning were becoming available, and they were found to be far more reliable and capable. However, this period marked the beginning of a year-long struggle by the USAAF, led especially by Colonel Roosevelt, to acquire the Mosquito and to also develop a brand new reconnaissance aircraft - a quest that would result in the ill-fated and scandal-ridden Hughes XF-11.[26] The RAF continued to display leadership in the field, and now took on the role of on-the-job mentor to the Americans. Spitfires and Mosquitos were found to be the best reconnaissance platforms, as everyone now realized that speed, range, and altitude were essential to survival and good photographs. Second-line photographic aircraft (such as Bostons, Blenheims, Marylands) were relegated to less contested skies. The RAF turned Medmenham into the Allied Central Interpretation Unit (ACIU), inviting the Americans to participate on a joint basis, and continued to spin off new squadrons with high-performance reconnaissance aircraft based both in the British Isles and in the Mediterranean. Other RAF units operated in the Far East, often with slightly less capable aircraft such as Hawker Hurricanes and B-25 Mitchells. A very large fraction of RAF reconnaissance was consumed in tracking German capital ships. This endeavor even included stationing photo detachments at Vaenga air field on the Kola Peninsula. When the British returned home, their reconnaissance aircraft were given to the Soviets.[27] During this period Wing Commander Adrian Warburton built a reputation as a daring and productive reconnaissance pilot; and Wing Commander D. W. Steventon undertook many important missions, inc. some of the first overflights of the German experimental site of Peenemunde on the Baltic coast.[28] The interpreters at ACIU gained recognition for their expertise, F/O Constance Babington Smith, MBE and Sarah (Churchill) Oliver being among the noted names.[29] A scientific approach to reconnaissance developed, topped by the involvement of the Prime Minister when particularly notable results were discussed, such as the discovery of German jet fighters in test. The RAF also early developed the standard three-phase interpretation procedure: first phase required immediate response (such as advancing columns of armor sighted); second phase required 24- hour handling (such as concentrations of landing crafts in ports); and third phase was for long-term analysis (such as industrial targets like coal gasification plants). Also, the distinction between strategic and tactical reconnaissance became clear, and sub-specialties like weather reconnaissance, radar photography, and bomb-damage assessment (BDA) became current. Both sides developed programs of regular weather reconnaissance in the Atlantic. In addition, the technique widely known as “dicing” - extreme low-altitude photography at high speed - came to be adopted by the Allies for special work.[30] Colonel Roosevelt pioneered night photography over Sicily. Flash bombs had to set off at very precise timing in order to capture the image, and in time the Edgerton D-2 Flash System came into wide use, this involving capacitor discharge at precise intervals.[31] Also, infrared film began to be used at the end of the war.[32] It was generally agreed that the Mosquito, designated F-8 by the Americans, was the best platform - apart from its performance, it offered the use of another operator in the glazed nose, which made both navigation and the very delicate selection of camera controls to match speed and altitude easier than in the single-seat F-5 Lightnings. Nonetheless, the Americans began to standardize on F-5s and F-6 Mustangs in order to promote an indigenous capability and break away from the RAF’s tutelage.
About 15 years ago we were on holiday with my in-laws in North Yorkshire in a little village called Hutton-le-Hole when we heard a very distinctive sound. I thought it sounded like 2 Spitfires or, oddly, half a Lancaster. My Father-in-law, who served in the 50th Northumbrian Division from 1941 - 1946 recognised it. So did my Mother-in-law who served in AA batteries from 1943-1945. There at about 2,000 feet was a Mosquito. Fast forward 10 years and we were on holiday in Northumberland and renting a house very near the main East Coast rail line. I heard what l thought was a high speed diesel express train. Wrong! It was a P38 following the track at about 300 feet. Complete with D-Day stripes. Two twin engined aircraft of the same vintage, both with V12 engines yet they sounded so different. The memories will linger.
So. Revisiting this vid if is interesting how quickly they are kidnapped by so called arm chair warriors. I can't be bothered if one aircraft was better than another or one engine is more superior. What is lost in these ego centric arguments is that one aircraft will do better than another in some areas but not across all aspects of combat. For example the p39 was a disappointing aircraft for the USAAC but it excelled on the eastern front with the Russian Air Force. The p 38 had huge engine liability problems in the ET but was a huge success in the SWPT. Different missions , different operating heights etc. The Allison was an exceptional engine, but limited by its lack of a decent supercharging on certain aircraft. It excelled with the turbo sc but that engine had problems at high altitude over Europe. Just like watching these old warbirds fly and who case if one can do something better. I've met plenty of ww2 pilots from the USAAC who fought along side the RAAF in the SWPT and they had respect for the British aircraft operated by the RAAF .
Barrie Rodliffe, I have changed my stance on the subject. I concede that you made a lot of valid points, and I confess, were I participating in that conflict, my first choice would be the Mosquito, (ahead of the Republic Thunderbolt by an eyelash.) I actually love the plywood construction and the spacious cabin, while still posting top marks in performance. Well done!
Maybe you should read Scramble by Bob Braham, who was one of the leading British Aces who flew both day and night fighters, plus the Mossie in the Day Intruder role. He gives an actuate appraisal of the Mosquito in day combat with the German single engine fighters in that if the German pilot was a novice, the Mossie could win, if the German Pilot was an expert, the Mossie would always lose.
The merlins and allisons have a totally different sound as they roar down the runway for takeoff. Also the flybys sound different. I love the sound of the merlins better.
sorry john the "compressibility issue" was a simple design error at the wing root. a small fattening fillet about a foot wide fixed it. Lockheed were pretty embarrassed by it so they came up with the "dive brake " story to avoid the issue.
the merlin was a far better engine than the Allison. the early Mustangs had a Allison and it was a dog next to the mustang with the merlin. Much of the early P-38 problems were because if the engines
I think I sad far better. Not crap. but the Allison engine ( if I remember ) cause more P-38 loses than did the german figthers. Something about the Turbo being a mis match. it would over bost causing engine damage. But in the latter version they used a different turbo which took care of the problems. I remember reading this in a book about the _P-38 I read over 20 years ago.
My favorite WW2 fighters were the P38 and P47. The Mosquito was a fighter/light bomber but ti was a great aircraft too. It is fantastic to see them together.
Reading through these comments, it's amazing, sad and pathetic how allies turn to enemies when comparing two fantastic aircraft that probably shouldn't be compared anyway. Our ancestors used these planes to fight for freedom - including freedom of speech - and some people here use that privilege to be spiteful pricks. I do hope the dedicated restoration teams who bust a gut to get these planes flying don't read these comments.
@@leehongjin6884 The last word should go to Hap Arnold of the USAAF, he forbade USAAF P 38 pilots from flying alongside Mosquitos, he also took all the Mosquitos he could get for the USAAF and tried to get them made in USA.
Wow.. A Fork Tailed Devil and a Mossy in the air together. Both tremendously capable combat aircraft. Both innovative, and highly dangerous in the hands of an experienced pilot.
Shows how big the single seat P-38 really was compared to the Mossie !..Both legends in their own right, but give me the Mossie any day for its all round capability !
Reid menzies. The P 38 was not much good in air to air combat, that is one of the reasons why the USAAF used Spitfires so much. The Mosquito fighter bomber was not too bad as a fighter, they could take on Fw 190`s quite well.
Poor Wilbut snoring tractor I never take US claims as fact. Also you take no account of the number of unarmed Mosquito bombers and photo reconnaissance aircraft. Also when used as a strike fighter or fighter bomber there was little in the way of air combat. The P 38 was not much use in Europe or the Mediterranean and the USAAF used Spitfires in preference to the P 38 ( useless so called fighter ). Some US aces never shot down a single aircraft.
@@barrierodliffe4155 Actually dumb ass IF you would pull your fat head out of your fatter ass and see daylight and smell fresh air and do some research you will find the USAAF made good use of the P38 in Europe and the south Pacific !!! The piss poor British fuel did not set well with the turbocharger was the problem !!! Why it worked fine in the Pacific !!!! DUUUUHHHH!!!!!!!!!
Trevor That is simply NOT true !!! Look up the specs on the P38 and the Mossie and you will see any version of the P38 is faster than any version of the Mossie !!! Fact!!!!
Trevor NOT true !!!! The P38 had a top speed higher than any model of the Mossie !!! IF you disagree quote the Mark and speed and when and who did it !!!!
How do planes turn when taxing on a runway by the rudder? There couldn't be enough air resistance on the tail rudder because they're going so slow could there? Is it by braking one wheel at a time? Thanks.
Its a combination, british systems were differential brakes, push left pedal for rate required and squeeze the hand lever on the stick for the amount of brake pressure required, a bit tricky to learn but works well, in the end the usa system won out in universal use with simple left right braking tractor style and toes down for pressure required..
A funny story from an RAF veteran from WW2 I met at an airshow. He was talking about when the "yanks" first arrived in the UK with there P-38s and they kept bragging about how fast they were, eventually him and his mates got tired of this and challenged them to race against their Mosquito, so they began the race, 3 laps around 3 airfields first one to finish wins. 2 laps in and both aircraft are neck and neck neither are outrunning the other anyones game, then suddenly over the radio the mosquito pilot perks up and says "Right guess I should start the second engine" and then slowly pulls away and wins the race. It had done 2 laps with only one engine running. Needless to say the yanks were annoyed and the Brits were laughing their tits off! Edit: No hate intened I love both aircraft but I found this very amusing
I had not heard the story but i had heard that the Mosquito was as good on one engine as the p 38 on two, so maybe that came from this story. Another thing I had heard was that the USAAF who used Mosquito`s would not let their P 38`s fly with Mosquitos because they did not want it to look silly. I know the P 38 was never as fast as Mosquitos
The USAAF liked the Mosquito too, in fact the RAF deliberately threw a race between a Mosquito and a P 61 so the USAAF would not take all the available Mosquitos .
Boring factor....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR, Still spouting the same old bullshit Wilber. Britain and Australia paid their share ....and then some
the P-38s engines are turbo-charged ...the exhaust drives the turbo. and thus they are considerably silenced and changed.The Merlins are supercharged so are unmuffled in any way.
The P-38 cannot be fairly compared with the Mosquito as a twin-engine day fighter since the Mossie was never intended to engage more nimble single engine fighters in daytime combat (though it successfully did) as the Lightning was. A better British comparison subject for the P-38 on that basis would be the Westland Whirlwind, though the true potential of the latter airframe was not fully realized during the war for various reasons. The Mossie and Lightning did match up in terms of their roles in photo reconnaissance and night fighting and I think it is fair to say that the former was the clear winner in both categories. The Mosquito was unquestionably the greatest photo-recon bird of the all combatants during the entire war and, quite arguably, was also the greatest and most able night fighter of all the allies being at least the equal of the purpose-built P-61 Black Widow. Generally speaking, the P-38 was too lightly armed to have been a truly effective night fighter. If we talk about a comparison of these two aircraft as bombers/fighter bombers, there is clearly no contest. The "Wooden Wonder" wins hands down.
The P 38 was not good at taking on fighters at least in Europe. The Westland Whirlwind was very good and it needed more development of the Peregrine engine to be the great fighter it could have been. For photo reconnaissance the Mosquito was very good but the Spitfire to a large extent took over because it was faster and better able to look after itself. The Mosquito was the best night fighter, the P 61 was late and lacked performance.
PR Mossies had better endurance than their Spitfire counterparts and carried a navigator which was helpful in not getting lost on long trips to photograph targets over the vast and monotonous expanses of sea and land in the Far East and SW Pacific. PR Spits generally had sufficient range to reach most of the targets of interest in Europe and the Mediterranean and therefore predominated in that role in those areas where the probability of interception at high altitude was somewhat higher.
While the P-38 was used as a night fighter in the Pacific, that was without radar. They did develop a radar installation for the P-38, but there is no evidence that version of the P-38 saw combat. By the time the P-61 entered combat, there were few enemy aircraft left to engage. I think the entire P-61 combat victories were about 150. About equally split between Europe and the Pacific. The P-61 saw action as a night intruder and could carry up to 6400 lbs. of bombs. The P-61C, with turbo-superchargers, was faster than the Mosquito, but I don't think they saw combat - just the P-61A and B with two speed superchargers. Their top speed of around 380 mph was adequate for the job they performed, in fact a night fighter often had to rapidly slow down to cruising speed when ambushing the enemy plane.
@@barrierodliffe4155 I think you got that backwards. The Mosquito largely replaced the Spitfire in the photo-recon role. The Mosquito had greater range when carrying a bomb bay auxiliary tank and had more room for photo equipment. The PR Mosquito was the fastest Mosquito with a top speed of 425 mph.
@@danzervos7606 You got it a bit wrong, the Mosquito did not replace the Spitfire for photo reconnaissance, the Mosquito was used for very long range photo reconnaissance like going to Poland but the Spitfire had enough range fo fly all over France, Germany and much of Norway and was faster than the Mosquito, also the fastest Mosquito was a night fighter version that did 437 mph, they used nitrous oxide and some Spitfires used liquid oxygen.
Lets all of us bow down to your superior knowledge on the P38.... :-) To let you know I was referring to the BEST V12 in the Mosquito. If you read my comment again, I did write 'or the V12 Rolls Royce' sorry about this..... DUUUUHH !!
soaringtractor to be fair, they are all spelt incorrectly but the way they are spelt is US English. There is English (correct way) and US English. Which is correct for you.
For those comparing the engine sounds, don't forget the P-38's Allison engines were TURBOCHARGED, in which case much of the exhaust energy is absorbed by the turbine, giving a quieter sound. The Mosquito's Merlins were SUPERCHARGED, and the exhaust is discharged straight to the atmosphere, making it louder. Of the two, turbocharging is the more efficient.
Wilbut snoring tractor The fastest P 38 414 mph, the Mosquito NF Mk XV 424 mph but then use nitrous oxide and you get 437 mph. I love the truth which really gets your knickers in a twist.
Naaaagh ! it's all fake, just keyboard machismo. some of 'em on here are breaking their Court orders to behave and stop harassement, not to move address, and change names without permission from the nut house they are on temporary release from.
+Ian Stevenson well said. The Mossie was a radical design, built against the odds. It was cheap to build, a good flier, remarkably adaptable, solid, durable, had an amazing survival rate. All in, a truly remarkable airplane. Being made of wood, I bet it has a small radar image, something they didn't pay much attention to at the time. Actually, I like the look of the P-38 as well, think that the turbo-supercharger was a good concept but not taken far enough, but the P-38 didn't cut it in Europe. FWIW, the P-51 (which replaced the P-38) was built to a British design brief, and turned out rather well. The Yanks liked them too, with good reason
Both were made to solve a problem. P 38 was a long range escort fighter. The mosquito was a night fighter..pathfinder..bomber..when a 57mm cannon was added was a U-boat killer and finally a photo recon aircraft. But she could out run the German fighters and hold her own if needed. The mosi wasn't made to dog fighter but with such a high top speed it was difficult to engage.
The Mosquito's very first flying mission was photo- recon. No guns, no armor plating just speed and climb rate due to the two stage super-charger. It was intended to be a medium bomber. Once pilots got experience they pitched the idea of using them as bombers and night fighters but the things proved so adaptable to carrying huge weights and having a very resilient air-frame they ended up carrying huge bombs, a molin's 6lb auto cannon, clandestine radio spy operatives in it's belly over Scandinavia, chasing V1's, precision bombing of single targets. The dang thing just did every job assigned to it and continued raising the bar until war's end and then beyond as a fleet of surveying aircraft of the never before mapped, vast Canadian northern wilderness after the war.
Justin Gamino Another Damn fool running his uneducated mouth !!! P38 is a couple of years ahead of the Mossies and 10,000 were built.....Mossie has about 7,000 Built !!! More P38's than Mossies built !!!!! DUUUUUHHH!!!!!!!!
justin WRONG !!!!! There were More P38's made than Mosquitos and it flew before the Mosquito !!!! Do the research and look at the number built !!!! DUUUHH!!!!!!!! There were over 10,000 P38;s made and about 8,000 Mossies !!!!
@@wilburfinnigan2142 More P 38's a few more but they did less, Hap Arnold wanted more Mosquito's for the USAAF and even tried to get them made in USA but no US company was able to do so.
@@barrierodliffe4155 There were NO engines for them and there was a shortage of the Balsa wood that came from south America !!! Also Packard built the engines in the USA and Nash/Kelvinator built the props for the Canadian built Mosquitos, and Buick car also built fuselages for the Canadian Mossies !!! NO US company was able to do so ???? WTF ???? Packard also did not want to build the merlin, but did !!!!!
Our "Keyboard warrior" has not much appreciation for anything NOT American. Those of us who lived through all this and who recognise where there was credit due will always give it appropriately. I believe from my experience that the Mossie actually flew at up to 40 000 ft in some variations - particularly the unarmed photo recon.
In addition to the internal 4000 lb bomb, it also carried 2 wing mounted 500 lb bombs instead of the drop tanks needed on the much longer sorties. Its ceiling with this load was 36 000ft. Of course, our "man" who wraps himself in "Old Glory" and who likely never served a real day in his life will be unable to accept the facts and will retort with his spewed out garbage about all around US superiority.
Sadly, there are many in the world like Lightning Bolt who do not differentiate between Hong Kong (Dec 1941)and Singapore (Feb 1942). Sadly, my wife and I both had relatives involved in one or the other.
You could make an argument that from about 1942 the only land based combat aircraft the Allies needed were the Mossie and the Lightning. They were the ultimate fighter/attack aircraft and could do it all. Fast, heavily armed, versatile, agile, and robust, they were formidable aircraft the Axis never really matched. And so lovely.
Wrong, a Expert German pilot in a FW-190 could kill both types with ease at low altitude. Bob Braham covers being shot down by an Fw-190 while flying a Mossie FB Mk 6 in his book Scramble. The Mossie's main defence was open the taps and run!!!
@@richardvernon317 also the P-38 Lighting had a not issue in the European theater of operation much better in the Pacific the Spitfire P-51 P 47 Tempest were better European fighters and ground attacker fighters and all could kill the FW-190
For those who don't remember history, General Arnold of the 8th Air Force ordered that the P-38 will NEVER fly alongside or near a Mossie in order that the American Pilots not be embarrassed. I saw both during the war and both were pretty damned good. However, there were some very different performance characteristics almost all of which favoured the Mossie. American pilots fought to get a trip in a Mossie.
man talking about fake news... Nothing wrong with the british aircraft. it was a great light bomber and recon aircraft. But the P-38 was a fighter and it did many missions. it like compairing applies and oranges. Both did their job very well. As I once heard Greg Boyington ( the leading marine ace of WWII) say, he often wished he flew a bomber because the pilots could relax or even take a nap . But that does not mean the bomber was a better aircraft
not restored, built from new. all new fuselage moulds made over the last ten years so now they are punching them out. the mosquito would absolutely flog the lightning with a much higher turn rate, climb and outright speed. don't forget they gave a spitfire a run for its money
even Wikipedia shows the mozzie was 30mph faster at 25000 ft.There was a queue to fly the mozzie over Germany, not so the p38. it was very popular in the pacific tho as it had two engines..very handy when flying over lots of water. the p38 has speed limited aerobatic capabilities in the earlier models
the mustang 1 and 2 COULDNT reach 20,000 with the Alison you dipstick...THATS WHY IT WAS A GROUND ATTACK PLANE.....it was asthmatic at 10,000 and failed at 15000. The POMS tested it and stated it was unsuitable for operations above 10,000 ft ie useless for Europe operations.
The only thing in common to P-38s and Mosquitos is outstanding designers and wings. One is a bomber ,2 crew. The other ,interceptor single seater. Comparing is DUMB.
The only thing comparable is they had two engines. The Mosquito could carry more faster and further, it had better firepower, went higher and did much more, Hap Arnold wanted more Mosquitos for the USAAF, they got some along with the Beaufighter, Spitfire, Anson, Oxford, Lysander and Defiant. The Mosquito and Spitfire replaced the P 38 for photo reconnaissance work, they wanted the Mosquito night fighter instead of the slow P 61 but the RAF realized how the USAAF kept trying to steal their aircraft and they had a race between a Mosquito and a P 61, Some in The USAAF believed the RAF deliberately threw the race, the RAF pilot did not let on that he had only used half throttle and still had to reduce power to lose.
The De-Havilland Hornet is more comparable to the P-38 as a single-seater fighter. The first production versions were produced in 1945 but never say action in WW II, but they were truly fast machines. Comfortably 60mph faster than either of these, it would climb at 5,000 feet per minute and a longer range with a carrier version available too. A bit like a streamlines Mosquito, but a new design. Sadly none survive, but I believe a Sea Hornet is being rebuilt in New Zealand.
LOL Not quite together ; The P 38 is trying to keep up with the Mossie!!! General Arnold of the 8th Air Force ordered that the P-38 will NEVER fly alongside or near a Mossie in order that the American Pilots not be embarrassed.
When all is said and done the best comment might be that America had to use Rolls Royce Merlin V12 engines to make their aircraft better? Fact. Brits had a viable jet fighter before Septics! German 262 was first no doubt! Mossie simply was a better aircraft. Sadly today America lacks the grace to acknowledge that others were there first! German rocket scientists were behind both USSR and USA space race. Little South Africa invented the heads up helmet mounted gunsights you now see in F16 and Apache gs. Our Rooivlerk gunship is better in the bush because quite simply it does not need an army of Yanks or parts to keep flying! Apache is awesome but simply too expensive ! This is incredibly ironic from a nation that celebrates its immigrant culture and diversity? Yes I live in the USA and love it but at times it seems civility and humble sharing of ideas, cultural diversity and just humanity seems to be lost. I am an old Angola vet who worked his ass off and nou is ek op my eie plaas met my Boet en familie! En ek het my R1 en R4 en N paar Rus wapens! Go Bokke!
James Ritchie Very true. While I'm as patriotic as the next man, I must admit we Americans do sometimes have a hyper sense of our virtues and accomplishments and fail to acknowledge the accomplishments of others. By the way...welcome to the States! Glad to have South Africans like you settle here.
It is quite embarrassing how a few ignorant kids on the internet can make Americans appear so clueless. They were both beautiful planes, and the P-38 would of been even better if there were enough Merlins to spare. It was an amazing time for aircraft design, under stressful conditions to understate.
Depends on my definition of "Kid" I guess. The 20 somethings that work for me I consider kids. Those starting flame wars or those who debate by insulting others I call kids even if they are older than I. I am very proud to be American, but that does not mean I am going to deny the superiority of Roll Royce aircraft engines during WW2, or the advance British jet engine metallurgy after the war which was stolen by the Russians with their sticky shoes... Looking up Wilbur Finnigans home page I only see a bunch of people he has been rude to. ru-vid.com/show-UCbLggLFHDV75cMYW8EZnOYgdiscussion?lc=Ugind5hkDrpSPngCoAEC
Both aircraft were assigned completely different roles. The comparison is useless. The Mozzie was a fighter/bomber while the P-38 was a heavy fighter. If you want to prove a point on how it's better (I'm not saying the Mozzie is a bad plane, it's an amazing piece) Than please provide evidence. Both planes did their role and pilots of both nationalities loved them. If they get the job done then usually they're not crap. A better comparison would be the P-38 vs Beaufighter. Both were heavy fighters so there ya go. I don't understand why people like you have to trash talk aircraft and say "this was better". The was is long over so really.... it doesn't matter. These planes ain't seeing combat again so what's your point?
Smoking Colt. The Mosquito was a night fighter, fighter bomber, bomber, strike fighter, photo reconnaissance plane and much more. The Beaufighter was a strike fighter, night fighter and torpedo plane and both had firepower that the P 38 lacked. The point is that Americans like to make big claims.
Very hard to see how that would be, the RAF beat the pants off the Luftwaffe in 1940 just using British fighters, that put paid to any slight chance of Germany invading Britain and not a single US fighter to be seen.
