Mother Uses Power of Attorney Behind Daughter's Back | Chicago Med | MD TV 

I’m disabled have been my whole life, I have slight brain damage when it comes to judgment around social situations. I can learn I just take longer. Anyway it’s nothing like autism though I sometimes relate and it makes me wonder. But I totally get what you mean about the infantilizing (sp) It’s so annoying sometimes. Sometimes it’s merited when my oxygen is low yea I’m not gonna understand what the heck you are saying but it drives me crazy when people talk to me in a high pitched voice like I’m 3( I may be short, but on my chart it tells you exactly how old I am) and I don’t have any severe mental problems that would prevent me from understanding when you are treating me like a child. That being said I can sometimes be a hypocrite and I do it to others and I have to catch myself and remind myself I hate it when people do it to me, and that they probably are smart enough to know when people are treating them different even if it doesn’t seem like it.

Yeah I have Autism plus my Mum and my sisters. It is hard.

Yeah, pulled away screaming because she was having a tantrum, like a child having a toy taken away.

@@jessymonster she thought her baby might die, and was getting a surgery done against her will, do you really think that's not an appropriate reaction??? I don't have kids but that would be a pretty terrifying situation to me

@@hibiscuspetals02 she doesn't have the mental capacity to understand the situation, no. She had a tantrum, like children do.

It differs on a case by case basis. One person's Downs' syndrome is not the same as another's. Some people with the condition are able to take care of themselves but other's are not. The mom wouldn't have just been granted Power of Attorney just because the daughter has Downs, Barbara would've had to be evaluated by an expert or experts and declared unfit to take care of herself.

@@shootingcomet082 Totally. I’ve known and worked with many Downs children and adults in my lifetime. They are no different to every other human being…UNIQUE in their own way. That’s what can make having someone in your life with special needs so enriched and rewarding. All given that they are brought into this world by parents or care givers who are prepared to be there with them every step of the way and encourage them whatever their capabilities are. Tragically, many with special needs globally, are not. My thoughts and prayers are always with these poor souls that need our help.

Wow, she sounded like a very good person. Rest in piece.

WHOA, SHE LIVED TO BE 72?! I was a caregiver to a woman with Down’s Syndrome who only lived to be 54. She had dementia and eventually couldn’t speak or eat about a year before she died. It was heartbreaking. This woman you’re talking about is so blessed to live that long. Most people with Down’s Syndrome don’t live past 60.

Please please please refrain from saying sufferers. There not suffering with Down syndrome…

The mom thought of herself.

I find it pretty terrible that she would rather have her daughter suffer the pain of losing a child than feel it herself.

@@queenesther09She probably would have died before feeling that.

​@@missy9088that's not necessarily true, she loves her daughter and wants her to live but her subconscious is breaking down and in the way back of her mind.. she doesn't think she can do it anymore. Ultimately if she didn't get the surgery done. The daughter would die. So the mom ultimately thought of her daughters well being

I completely understand the mom's choices. I can't be mad at the daughter, but it's so frustrating that she doesn't and/or can't comprehend how hard this will be.

@@Midnight0Mistress Down syndrome has no effect on being a parent

I agree. My two boys went to Pre-K with a sweet little girl who had Downs Syndrome. They are all grown and their friend went on to have a healthy baby boy as an adult. So I am alittle biased because of personal experience.

The daughter still has a say in her health care

You can’t force someone to do anything if they refuse. She’s an adult. She had a say. I’m special needs and I’d never allow anyone to make a medical decision that I didn’t consent to

You said it so well thank you

Exactly. I'm disabled as well, I was considered legally psychologically disabled at age 17. You said it very well. One of the most frustrating parts of this video was the mom saying "its like having a child that never grows up". Downs syndrome is a spectrum. While I'm sure there are some downs patients who are like that, there are also some who can live fine on their own. There's one who is practically a savant in mathematics, and teach it to college students.

Well said, I have Autism plus severe Anxiety and yes I do get help for my mental health. But now I am studying medical science which is a big achievement for myself.

She's also not living on her own. The problem is the mother has someone else to take care of. If she's so capable, she can move out

@Handicapable Outdoors You said it better than I can

People who lose children are never the same after. So in a sense you still lose both.

But that leaves out what it would do to your daughter and your relationship with her, if you forced her to have an abortion.

@@ColleenF30 It's possible she would have lost both without the surgery. It's a lose lose situation

@@Taygon45 If you have ever lost a child you would understand. You lose both either way.

@@ColleenF30 That's why I said lose lose

amen . its disgusting . i have a disability too . our disability doesnt mean we are not capable . we may need help but it doesnt mean we should be talked down to .

​@Loserkid420 is she supporting herself? Living by herself? If she cannot take care of her baby, then it also becomes her mother's responsibility. Then she has all the right to have a saying.

@@alexiatr indeed. Which is why I said I see both sides.

If she was willing to die so that she can have her baby, then I say she has enough of an cognitive state to think of herself and the baby. Now I can't say what it's been like been like for you and your family to take care of your sister but if I was in my mom's shoes, then I have a clear picture of what it's like being on the spectrum. Yeah it's hard to take care of someone who's disabled (let alone if they have a baby) but putting in the hard work to teach them the basic skills of thinking so that they can form their own advocacy skill, it's worth the love and care

@@falcon8105 how does that make sense to you

@@bong_water which part because I went on a 3 course tangent

Again, this whole theme in the comments is just disabled people's family members playing the victim and treating their disabled relative like someone who is completely incompetent. With the right resources and a bit of support, the daughter can be totally capable of taking care of her son. If the mom put in the tiniest bit of effort in building her daughter's independence, instead of just "doing everything for her" then the daughter will be very capable.

@@sydniedesjarlais7917 there are many type of disabilities, limiting the amount of freedom some can have. This isn't just a "oh stop babying them and teach them more things to make them more capable". Even those with down syndrome, some are capable of being way more independent than others and some need help with everyday tasks. Playing the victim? I've seen my mother struggle to take care of my sister, the medical cost is extremely high and my mother works full time. My sister is in programs so I get to meet a lot of the families. Each and every family is STUGGLING, whether it be financially, physically or emotionally. It's even worse for single mothers/fathers, jobs don't want to keep them because they have to keep taking time off to take them to xyz doctors appointments, or surgeries and aftercare. If the mother were to die and she was under a conservatorship the state would take her and the child, and guess what? Then they end up in state run homes, that can give 2 shits if they even get up to brush their teeth and the child would most likely go into a foster home. Everyone is the victim here. If my mother were to die, I am in NO position to take in my sister.

I COMPLETELY understand this, THIS!!!!! people don’t understand the pressure care takers face, like parents age and die and not everyone will be there to care for you especially when you have special needs like your parents or family will. The patient does not understand this

@@NIkki-ox1ej yes. This is such a real issue. We’re humans. Even if we love someone, they can burn you out. I would’ve been like the mom… Is it horrible!m? Maybe but the ones judging aren’t in the same situations. :(

But at the exact same time the reality is that the person she’s caring for is their own person as well. And they have rights and feelings of their own that deserve respect and consideration. If raising a special needs child puts you in a place where you can’t care for anything or anyone else anymore then you should have the consideration to discuss that with the person and be honest in letting them know you expect them to go without reproducing for the remainder of their lives. If not at least through out the remainder of yours. Otherwise don’t have children. Spoiler alert, most children grow into adults. Adults who can likely reproduce. So that’s something that needs to be addressed.

@@tearsinmycokea lot of people disown their kids cause they dont expect them to reproduce as teenagers occasionally becuase of the financial and emotional strain that comes from having to care for a baby and how a baby even when left to the others care indirectly affects your quality of life. So i agree on being very careful when having children because if they are reliant on you and decide to have their own without consulting you.

She called her daughter 'it'. "I wouldn't trade it for the world". Then she says "it's just the possibility of having another one".

That’s what I thought too🤷🏾‍♀️… TV logic I guess, we’re just here for the drama

I remember an episode where they told the mom the same thing and I think she had this same condition. And she was willing to risk her life for the baby. It got to the point that her body couldn't take it and the baby was born but she died on the operating table.

because people freak out more if you lead with it and often it's the same outcome

Exactly!

She wasn’t exactly grasping the concept. All she heard was the surgery MIGHT hurt her baby and that’s what she latched on to.

Yes she played Becky!

@@AB-rm2zu YES 👍🏼😁❤

Her name is Lauren Potter

She's so lovely!

I knew she was familiar!!

well Dr. RHodes made it easy by doing the surgery and still risking both!

There was an option for medication and weekly visits

There is a clear answer though. It's her child it's her choice

@@lunawiggins8251it wasn’t really an option. The medication wasn’t a guarantee but a compromise to placate the daughter and mother. The meds probably would’ve bought them a few months. Listen to what Ava was saying in the background.

You are so right. I had medical power of attorney for my mom when she was terminal.

Power of attorney is when a persona can not talk for themselves

@@carlerogers6700no it’s not when they can’t make decisions for themselves period. You can speak for yourself and be considered mentally incompetent.

100%agree,the doctor isn’t going to take care of the baby,the mum would have to raise 2 children in her elder years,and it’s even worse if she pass away

If she lost the baby, the patient would have tortured herself for the rest of her life. She would have severe trust issues around her mother and all medical staff. I can’t imagine how damaging that would have been

@@eileensnow6153 Eeyup.

really?

@@sidhu139 nope, your smartphone technology is more amazing

@@honor9lite1337 If you think that you have no clue about what's going on in our world

it's more the power of movie magic

@@zilesis1 typically you would be right, but these types of procedures do exist which makes abortion obsolete

The problem is that this woman completely understood what was going on though! Just because she has down syndrome, doesn't mean she couldn't be a good mother or couldn't make her own decisions.

I was wondering why the fact that the POA could be revoked or contested etc wasn’t addressed. My biggest complaint against the mom, aside from her completely ignoring her daughter’s wishes, is how quickly the mom decided to have the surgery done. Like she didn’t take some time like the doctor suggested to at least think about it.

I tend to believe that she does have a conservatorship or similar given the circumstances. They also spoke about legal documents and not only one document.

That's why it's just a TV show

there is an episode at Law and Order pretty like this. The mom has down syndrome and wants to take care of her child

Actually, it is not revocable without a psych evaluation to make sure that the patient is able to make safe desicions. If a person has POA then it’s usually for a reason, in this case the patient has down syndrome and possibly failed her last psych evaluation to have legal capacity. Young people usually don’t have an assigned POA without medical reasons such as intellectual disabilites. In this case I do believe they should have had more of a discussion because she was able to consent and conceive and the mother was wrong to make a decision like that so quickly despite how against it her daughter was but it’s a TV show and the baby gets to live through the miracle of television.

Exactly, it didn't seem like it needed to be done that very second. They could have waited and had her talk to a counselor.

It is a TV show🤷‍♀️

Your analysis breaks down when we consider the Mother didn't even listen to or give any credence to the non-invasive treatment option, didn't even give the doctor a chance to make his case. Then admitted she didn't want the baby to the hospital worker, from what the Daughter said, her mom may have even wanted to abort the baby.....

@@ithalpallath6770 it’s a tv show based off true events

@@maxmccullough8548 As you say,she didn‘t want the baby ,or would consider abortion .What’s wrong with that?

Someone with Downs syndrome would be considered legally unfit to make their own medical decisions. It's more like a parent making medical decisions for young kids

I think in this case the argument was that Barbra had been declared legally unfit to make decisions by a judge (at some point in the past) because of her syndrome and so her mom was granted POA

You're thinking of POA in the sense of a non cognitively disabled person. Like how if I'm in a coma my husband would make medical decisions for me because he's my POA BUT in Barbaras case she's got Downs Syndrome it's likely the court made the Mom her permanent guardian because she's been deemed mentally unfit.

No actually that's what it means. And I don't think the mother made this decision willy-nilly. The mother probably understands the fact that a a person who has down syndrome is likely to have another child with down syndrome. If the father didn't have down syndrome, it's 50% chance. If both of them had down syndrome, it's 100% chance. And even if that child doesn't have down syndrome, the chances are she's going to have physical complications because one of their parents did have down syndrome. It's exceedingly rare that a male would be with down syndrome. Would be able to father a child. Rare not impossible. So I think the mother thought about this a lot. Because if that child is born which is likely to be very sick. Who's going to make all the complicated medical decisions? Who's going to pay for that in a country that puts profit over people? Who's going to pay for the child? Just basic needs. Who's going to want to have to make all the decisions about the child's care. The medical care, the education it's going to have to be the grandmother. Seems to me this grandmother has burnout and is exhausted.

It’s obvious she was already declared mentally unfit hence the reason why she had the POA to begin with.

Obviously they had worked out the arrangements for the mother to have POA as, even though it wasn't shown on this clip, the mother provided documents showing she does in fact have POA. Besides, I guess it might vary, but people with Down Syndrome have often been ruled as not being capable of making their own decisions. I knew a guy who had Down Syndrome and he got really ill. Even though he didn't want the treatment, his parents had POA over him so they forced him to go through with it.

She probably has social security and it would have been part of that process

Agreed. I have a severely disabled son and the way POA works here is he has to understand what he's signing and why which he doesn't so I can't get a POA over him.

@@TimberlakeTigerGirlit is how POA works. The woman even had her paperwork in order.

@@carriecompton6919completely defeated the purpose. His lack of understanding is literally the point of POA.

my best friend has ASD and he’s very high functioning. People with disabilities are capable of so much and I wish people would stop underestimating them

This is not the case with lot of people with this condition. My daughter, 20 months old have Down syndrome… we didn’t know until she was about 1 month old. Why? Most times it’s picked up right after birth. You know that “low muscle tone” that’s “apparently” so common among those with this condition? My daughter didn’t display any signs of that and other things. She’s extremely active since birth (she spent 4 months in NICU due to premature birth and an infection) But her feature have changed so drastically-you see her you couldn’t tell right away that she has it Down syndrome. So many parents don’t have it differently. Of course, my daughter has a hole in her heart due to the condition will close in 2 years, but it could have been so much worse.

Yes. I think that people forget that although Barbara was the mother, her mother would ultimately be responsible for both.

@@brontewcat IDK the daughter seemed pretty high functioning, the baby didn't have downs, and there are well recorded cases of down syndrome sufferers raising their children.

@@maxmccullough8548 Possibly, but from the way the mother spoke I think the daughter lived with her and she was still caring for her daughter. Also the daughter’s reaction was that of a child, not an adult. The daughter did not seem to understand that not only would she die but the baby would probably die also. I think it was pretty clear that Mum was going to play a large part in the baby’s upbringing. However, it would have been better for her to have to discussed the decision with her daughter first.

Sometimes what we think is the best isn’t what we need. As a disabled adult I really hate seeing these comments. Most times parents won’t see that they could be hurting their kids more than they help. There’s a reason why disabled people have huge life-giving up rates. Even the “non-functional” individuals can learn to be more independent. “Doing everything for them bc they can’t do it themselves”, to me is just emotional negligence. Neurotypicals usually forget that we are people too

⁠@@lizg5692 My daughter has Down. She’s just 20 months with her whole life ahead of her, and as much as people with disabilities hate it… special needs individuals will always need someone’s aid. I refuse to have my daughter growing up thinking “Because she has special needs-she should feel disgust / put-off for someone else’s aid”

Yeah it’s almost like the mom cares more about her grown daughter than a fetus. Weird 😂

@@omnistpagan3282 The mother of course was just afraid. People with Down syndrome are known to have heart-related health issues. A pregnancy can cause heart problems as the pregnancy progresses. The mother has decision-making power over her daughter, so she can decide on any medical treatment she wants to perform, and as much as they wanted to indulge her daughter, the mother knew the risks of a pregnancy in her daughter's adverse conditions. The woman no longer cared about the fetus. He cared more about his daughter, and the fact of wanting to have her have an abortion was not to do his daughter an injustice, but to prevent her from dying while continuing the pregnancy, even with the alternative intervention suggested by the doctors... To say that he didn't care about his daughter, or that he cared more about the fetus is outright bullshit.

you think wrong

@@potocatepetl nope principal can override the agent at any time

@@thatonedog819 not true

You clearly don’t know what power of attorney means lmao

@@JoelEmmettMcGarrity....except I do. I think you're thinking of conservatorship, not poa

not really most hospitals unless told otherwise prioritize the baby

@@ayajade6683 That's a complete myth.

I felt bad for the mom.

@@emilyhedrick2851 because of comments like this is why mothers that raise disabled children feel hopeless. They feel like they cannot share how they really feel and end up bottling everything up until they explode. There's a great percentage of caretakers of disabled people that end up depressed, suicidal and even end up killing because people that don't know what they have to go through will make them villains for sharing how they really feel about the situation. In this clip, she wasn't telling her daughter how she felt. She was sharing with another adult the hardship of raising a disabled person. It's a monumental task that will never end

Actually, I'm not even sure this is legal. Medical PoA is usually for when the patient is unable to make a decision for themselves. The daughter is still capable of making decisions, so her mother shouldn't have been able to exercise that. It may be different if the patient is mentally compromised, but the decision should still be respected.

@@elizabethkelley2559 it doesn't matter once the ink is dry, legally speaking. As in, if there wasn't a legal document giving the mother power of attorney then it would be up to the doctors to decide if the daughter really is capable or not. but once that paper exists it's not a choice anymore. mom's name is on the paper, mom gets to make the calls. deviate from that and the hospital gets sued

@zilesis1 incorrect the girl is not incompasated. So mom had not right to do what she did.

@@karinaashmon if the mom has power of attorney, it doesn't matter if the daughter is incapacitated or not. Power of attorney means another person can meke decisions for you at any time, regardless of what you want.

Love? She called he daughter "it" and referred to the baby as "another one".

It’s ableism, those of us who are disabled can speak for ourselves, yet time and time again or choices get question because we are seen as a burden on society, we are not allowed to think for ourselves because “you poor thing, we know better than you”. Like there are non disabled people who would have taken the choice not to do the surgery, and I bet 100% no one would deny them their choice even if they disagree with the decision.

I couldn't believe it when the mother said she wasn't capable of making decisions. Her daughter had Down syndrome but was not incapacitated. The daughter said repeatedly that she didn't want surgery. She had some idea there was a risk to her baby. She was also aware that she was in danger. Her biggest concern was saving the baby.

@@sxugaryxcube9475it’s not ableist if her mother knew for a fact she’d be the one raising her daughters baby. Your situation isn’t everyone’s situation. It’s unfair that people under the care of other people because they can’t care for themselves can arbitrarily make decisions that affect others.

@@saraflint2982it didn’t appear that she realized there was a risk to her life. She latched on to possible danger to her baby and that’s what she focused on.

@@bautistalover You're right. And it's not just people with Down syndrome. Any mother would put her child's life over her own. Either way, I'm sure she wasn't aware how serious it was.

Its not her choice though. Lol doesnt matter anyway, the baby survived

@@BetaLantean It's a fictional series so ofc they're gonna show the more ethical route rather than the practical one LOL. No one deserves to live a life that mother will.

​I've met many people with down syndrome that can still care for themselves ir theur children she's not 5. She's allowed to have her own family

@@BetaLanteanit actually was she has POA and the law on her side.

@@Havis_Princessthere are many who can not. The mother has legal paperwork. It’s clear her daughter doesn’t fall into that category of being able to have her own family so to speak.

My understanding is yes. See Britney spears of all people. Her dad had POA over her (or something like it), forced her to get an iud placed and wouldn't allow it to be removed. I don't know of any cases with permanent sterilization, though.

@@madisonhoward8333 That was a conservertiship. Not Power of Attorney. It is similar. Generally Power of Attorney is for when a patient is unable or unwilling to make a decision, the person with power of attorney can make the decision on their behalf. That can range from only being able to veto a procedure to being able to do everything medically. It just depends on the case.

Yes, she is

I do agree with Barbara just said I do agree if I have a baby I do not want this surgery so I don’t need surgery so I don’t want it I want to push it and Barbara's mom will have to help her daughter's wishes she will deliver her baby Like right now she doesn’t want this surgery she will be fine and get her heart open surgery first then her baby too and she will won’t be feel any pain

It’s unfair to make her go through with surgery? Is it any less fair that her mother will have another child to look after or have to loose not only her daughter but her grandchild too? It wasn’t an easy decision but the right decision was made.

⁠@@bautistaloveri’m not saying the mother isn’t put into a bad situation but there are treatment facilities and adoption if it becomes too much for her. it sucks and is a bad situation but if she had just taken the time to talk to her daughter about the risks and rewards of the pregnancy they wouldn’t HAVE to drag her away distressed. plus the mom confirmed the baby doesn’t have down syndrome so realistically it’ll be a lot easier to deal with

@@jayleighbear adoption wasn’t going to help if her daughter died before the baby was born.

I don't understand a woman's need to tell her own child she would have aborted her if she had had to. What was the point of saying that to you, except to let you know she once had power of life and death over you. May God forgive her her cruelty.

@@vaska1999 How was she being cruel? She was told that I had a 90 percent chance of being stillborn and she could have died as well because of it. I will never hate or blame her for thinking about aborting me. She was the only one of 13 pregnancy that my grandmother had that survived to even be full term. So i understood where she was coming from You may think she was cruel but she was not and never was cruel. I would rather have my mother be honest with me than lie to me. That only brought us closer. I also did die at only a week old by my health issues. I know that you have your options about this and that is your choice but do not EVER EVER say that my mother was cruel by thinking about and telling me that she would have aborted me.

Yeah you can because there is a wealth of knowledge showing how this is wrong. It's called the internet, the greatest encyclopedia to date. It's never been easier to acquire the knowledge for so many situations and scenarios, do the research and put in the time and you can most likely find the right outcome. It's not a be all end all, but it's better then being quiet and assuming it's fine.

@@dainironjaw5425Google does not make you smart it gives you the delusion of being smart. The op is right people find themselves in these situations and we don’t know what we would do if we were in the situation. You could try using your brain instead of parroting some bs off encyclopedias. 😂😂😂😂😂

@@omnistpagan3282 So fact and evidence mean nothing? Go try somewhere else like in my comment, it says it's not the be all end all. But you must of missed that, if you belive everything then that's on the person.

and caretakers cost money.

money

Who is going to pay for the caregiver?

No

Exactly. If the mum dies, then so does the baby. If you don't prioritise the mother, then you doom them both

@@graceswan4353 It's an ugly situation. One I'd rather not emotionally invest in.

I think the mom made that decision cause she don’t want to take care of the baby

Her personal reasons are irrelevant if it's the most logical one. She could hate the baby (which I don't think she does) but that doesn't get rid of the fact that the mother needs protecting. It just hurts our feelings that she may not be making the baby a priority