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I'm 65+ raced in the 125 Elsinore class ( only competitive 125 at the time) purchased one of the 1st sold in central California, fall of 73' . $902.00 out the door! 20hp, 176lbs! You didn't have to be raised on a PW starting at 4 years old to be able to compete. You loaded up & went racing with other "novices" and learned on the track! Anyone could be a participant! Marty Smith was a rock star! Most fun racing ever for me. I raced until 50
No I didn’t push him. At 1.5 he learned to balance on a strider bike. He got a stacyc from gma and papaw, and wouldn’t leave it alone. (I tried to keep it in the garage cause he wouldn’t stay off it).. he could hardly grip the bars his hands were so small… miles away from reaching the brake lever… but he was riding it hitting top speed on it 😅. Had 12t of dirt dropped off and built him a single and table top.. he was starting to catch a tiny bit of air before turning 2. He figured it out all on his own.. once he learned he could twist the throttle and it would just go, it was all over from there. 😂
Anybody could be a participant until the 1986 production rule and the 4-stroke engine forced on the industry by the EPA. There are many pro legends of the sport, who would have never rode if bike prices are what they are today. That also includes you and I, I am pretty sure. 60 here. Bought my own bikes starting in 1976 at the age of 12, making $1.00/hr part time. Yea, all the private tracks I practiced on locally---are all gone/grown in. In fact, Michigan has not produced a factory rider since Kelly Smith about 22 years ago.
And the tracks are smooth freeways with high speed floaters and step ups. Tracks in Rynos day were rough, choppy, square edges bumps and basically crap, and not really "fun"
Too fast probably for you but not for someone who does this every day and adapts to new variables which are added at very small increments. It's not like dirt bikes went from 20 to 60 horsepower in one year...This has been evolving for decades.
Went off a road track at 150, got back up and on another bike 1 hr later. First time on a motocross track last week: broken foot going pretty slow. Dirtbikes are a different breed.
@@vetb882for many they just don’t know. I always knew mx was gnarly but it wasn’t until I got into road racing that I realized mx is one of the gnarliest things a person can do. Sportbikes on track, while difficult in its own right, felt way less intense and more inviting to push the bike naturally. Riding a dirtbike hard is a different animal
Outdoors needs to go more into 'natural terrain' tracks instead of more like a high speed supercross. Triples, rhythm sections, and whoops are perfect for supercross, but putting the same obstacles in outdoor tracks means it's the same thing only faster (more dangerous).
@JPW328 dirt bikes have always been middle class . Sure lots of big Riggs today. (Most have mortgaged homes and credit cards) the middle is disappearing worldwide.
@@chuckp3131 oh yeah I was just saying some nationals feels like there’s less fans, but back in the day they weren’t on TV so you had to be at the races. It made the nationals attendance feel much bigger.
I think its weird he says "out sport isnt that big YET". What makes anyone think this sport is going to grow - with the upcoming generation and their tendencies to be glued to their phone and also the fact that theres more people, less room to ride, inflation on everything including bikes and land... Why would it grow?
We confuse fans who can not afford a bike, and all the stuff associated with it, with a "growing sport". The only thing that makes the sport grow is business in, (and competing with), the industry. TV coverage growing the sport? They are not buying bikes,--and the sport was over 10 times larger before TV gave a damn. The 1986 production rule and the EPA forced 4-stroke (and land closures), have all but destroyed the sport. It is that kind of intervention in our free enterprise that hurts/destroys any industry that we built. Subsidies will run out, and some brands will start going out of business again. KTM will not buy them this time.
I'm 57 and have raced since age 12. Local races in Nor Cal ,Hangtown, Carnegie, Oatfield, Hollister MX Track. Hungry Valley MX Track. And I have to be completely honest. In 2011, I bought the CRF 450 after racing CR250's for years. They are not fun to ride at all. I still have it and just ride in Mojave Dove Springs with it. I have a 2000,CR250 still that's been gone through top to bottom many times with J&N Innovations suspension and many upgrades that bike is so much more fun to ride than the 450 maybe it's just me. But it's how I feel. Maybe the whole being 57 thing also.😂😂😂
I took almost 20 years off riding (97 KX250 my last bike then) as I started a small 2-stroke engine porting business that took off, (for Go-Ped scooters and gas RC cars/boats). I picked up a 2019 YZ250 2-stroke after reading a MXA test, and I have to say. MXA and the YZ used to be a much better mag and bike. The MXA of yesterday would have hammered it for being too tall. It was the worst set up MX 250 I ever bought, and I had to lower it, (seat and suspension, total 1.75"), Get rid of the Batman plastic, do motor mods to gain much more lower rpm power. I have never had to do so much to a bike to make it a good ride. I guess the kids just ride it anyway. :)
Made my own "bark busters" too (from a set of full wrap Cycra's), that are full wrap. super clean, rigid, (or can be set up to move for those worried about breaking a hand in a crash), and look like a set of "Flag hand guards" from the front. I tried to sell the design.
@@sauce1232 have you followed how many people have life altering injuries, are paralyzed, or even die in a year racing motocross? Very strange thing to say.
The supercross tracks from about 1988 to 1995 were the best designs. Speeds were slow. Obstacles were difficult. No mega jumps and quads like today. The tracks were purposefully built to have no rhythm. The racing was elbow to elbow. The injuries were much less severe and less frequent.
The question is, how do we make MX less dangerous? Track design? Lighter bikes? Limit CCs? Starts are the most dangerous lap. So separation is fundamentally the first place to examine. I say eliminate Performance Enhancing Devices like starting grids. Starting blocks. Holeshot devices on forks. ECU traction control. RPM lights.
I learned during my engineering courses, when you fix a problem efficiently, you have to find all the factors that contribute to the problem, and fix the biggest factors first. The biggest factor that created the higher speed in this sport,--is the EPA forcing the faster engine on the industry. So, if we want to fix the problem, and tackle the biggest factors first,--we must tell the EPA to go to hell, and deport the FIM, (and maybe their puppets, the AMA from this racing). Get that done first,---and the rest is easy.
Big jumps, high tech bikes, high speeds, slot car ruts. Things keep getting more extreme, all in the name of "growing the sport". Well, no disrespect to industry folks, you included, Ryno, but I don't think "growing the sport" is always in the best interest of the riders, or even the sport in general. As the leaps get longer, and tracks become one jump after another, it obviously becomes more dangerous; impressive to the casual observer, but certainly more dangerous. An 8 year old kid selling the idea to his mom of getting a dirt bike was never easy, now we clearly align ourselves with extreme sports and stunts like backflipping, making it even harder. To me, growing market share among casual fans and getting TV exposure have become a pursuit that is no longer keeping with the traditions of the sport or in the best interest of the amateur riding community. This has always been a sport of talent and fitness. Bring back natural terrain, 45 minute motos and fewer classes. GNCC seems to have a great model for bringing out weekend warriors.
Couldn’t agree more, i just recently made the transition into the cross country racing this season. Not only is the whole vibe of the events way more relaxed and chill, the cost of riding with the amount of seat time you get is way better!
200cc 2 strokes nice power to weight ratio for mere mortals. If we could participate the sport would grow! More fun to play race w/ buddies on XR100's, than watch Jet race
Man I've been watching motos for 30 years the last 2 years in the premiere class I just don't see the intensity we used to have from riders kinda seems like most of the pack is going 80% it almost feels like the top 5 250 class can be in the top 5 in the 450 class
KDX 200 air cooled engine on a modern KX 125 chassis. They would sell well. As far as pro racing, open class 300 cc 4 stroke max with 250 cc 2 strokes. Feeder class 200 cc 4 stroke with up to 150 cc kitted 2 strokes. Groom the track more often.
@Ryan Hughes totally agree. I randomly watched the ‘97 Kenworthys 125 moto’s yesterday. The racing was so much better and more enjoyable/intense to watch. Not nearly as fast. But more bar banging and tight/close racing. It was so rad!
Couldn't get away with simple mistakes back then like missed shifts and bad clutch work. Miss a shift on a 125 and you're getting passed! 😂 None of this click it into 3rd, hit a 180 corner and the next 50mph straight by just letting it overrev at 13k a little bit. Haha
The primary limit has not been technology, it has always been balls and reasoning. Bikes have always went as fast as we wanted, at least at the race level. Let the man riding determine how fast he wants to go, not the people washed out and watching. In summary the rider is the one who choses his limit we DO NOT need to limit technology.
Ryan have you been too Mid-Ohio to watch Vintage MX? Would the fans come to see the pros on a natural track? It sure produces good racing at Mid-Ohio and if you look around everyone is smiling. I'm not saying go back to the 70's on technology but go back to the 70's tracks!
A beach racing series would be good it's easy to form the track half moto cross half super cross style track every thing you need is already there Some of the coast line around America just stunning, would work with a XC style steaple chase aswell
I understand the comparison being made but I think the bikes used would not make it more equal. Currently in supercross a factory supported and modified 250 achieves nearly the same power as a 100% O.E. 450 from the showroom floor, but the 250 will have much better suspension so overall will be faster around the track with a higher skilled rider
@@stevesmith756 a factory support fully modded 250 is putting out around 50hp. Last time I checked a showroon stock 450 was 49hp advertised. Torque is not even close.
What is more important for the sport,------------Bike technology, or affordability for bike sales and real growth of the sport? If you want to pick technology,---you have no intention of buying a 1st bike.
When all the bikes were 2 strokes, i could tell what class was on the track by the sound of the bikes, now the B, C, Vet, and a few A riders look and sound the same.
Me and a buddy of mine that I raced with have been talking about this for years!!!!! They are going too fast and a tiny mistake can lead to catastrophic results!!! The four strokes come after you a$$ on the ground.
Look at the lap times between 250 and 450. They're not that much different. Both classes could race 250s. Maybe a class of 250s with production rule and a class with works 250s.
Motocross will never get as big as some want it to. I believe many fans and people that ride, myself included, prefer our sport to stay small and niche just the way it is now. It's been around 50 years. It's not going mainstream. Side nite. 450s are too goddamn fast now. Everyone needs to make a 350 and call it good
Someone said to bring back the tracks of the 70s, and I couldn't agree more. Keep the jumps in the stadiums because that's where they belong. It would be cool if the AMA would allow older Pros like Hannah, Johnson, Lechien, Johnny O', etc. to give their input on the design of our future national tracks. After racing motocross on and off now for almost 40 years, I have never seen so many injuries in the Pro ranks. And the bikes are too fast? Ehhh----maybe for indoors but not outdoors. That was the alure of watching those guys manhandle the beastly 500's around Carlsbad most weekends on the Wide World of Sports. Oh, and perhaps make chest protectors mandatory! It's hard to promote the sport if half the field is laid up with shoulder injuries.
450's have too much power for indoors, SX should be 250cc with 2 classes, entry class 3 yrs max ( Sorry Jordan Smith) in East/West and then must move up to primer class. Look at the lap times, there is usually only1 sec difference between 250 and 450 now, proof more power does not = faster lap times. Outdoors, MX 250 and Open + Electric class. The only reason Stark Varg isn't allowed to race is because none of the big corporate teams have a competitive electric bike, once they do all of the sudden it will be allowed. The big 5 are just trying to keep Stark Varg from gaining market share.
It’s never going to be as popular as other racing series because of the risk involved in riding dirtbikes as a hobby. Also it’s incredibly expensive and time consuming for the average middle class person in the US that didn’t grow up riding.
If F1 had current tech with V10s and turbos, there would be many deaths, the speeds and acceleration would be brutal. Crashes are already bad. Moto, like Pala, is so flat and smooth, kids on 50s are jumping 100 foot step ups.
What your comment ignores is the amazing ability of humans to adapt to the new. There's this thing called "self preservation" and it's one of the most deeply rooted instincts we possess.
OMG, the question about the 350 he asked Ryan was the most stupid question I’ve ever heard. There is such a thing as a dumb question! They should go back to 125s and 250s, but 4 strokes. I’d say go back to 2 strokes, but that’ll never happen.
I been saying this for years and years. The freestyle boom kicked all this off. And top it off with how fourstrokes like to be ridden around tracks. Everybody wanted massive jumps on the tracks. Everybody wants to have big sweeping turns on tracks for the fourstrokes. American tracks are what GP tracks were back in the day. Freeways. Wide open. Watch and listen to a 125 back in the 80s and 90s and then now on the same national track. Its balls out. No cutting off. All they need to do is tighten up the turns and and put jumps closer to exits of turns and closer to entrances. Its easy to slow the tracks down.
AMA missed the mark on the class size when Yamaha brought out the 1st 4 stroke to race with the boys. First it was 400cc then 426cc. AMA can right the ship. Going to have to let electric bikes in soon and you don't want to miss the mark on size for class
The obstacles aren't what make good racing. The best racing seems to be on the flatter sections where the rider has more line choices. I always like the section in supercross where they come back onto the start straight. Limit the amount of jumps and rhythm sections. While the big jumps might be spectacular to the casual fan, they have become boring and mundane for me to watch. Outdoors is becoming a high speed supercross track. They should lay it out on completely natural terrain without adding a kicker at the peak of the hill or make it a step-up only to land on the top. Think old-school Unadilla. Create m off camber turns, tighter sections and always lots of hills and elevation changes.
Not to mention, the more confidence Joe Blow gets by being closer to a Jett or Roczen, etc, will make Joe want to go faster and raise risk even more for the inexperienced rider. I think 350s is the way to go. They'll still be quick but it's a more manageable powerband
Track design could be alot safer with still having big jumps. BMX had to tone it down in the 2000s right after the X games came around. Doubles were peaked and you either made it or crashed. They rounded out the middle leaving the steep take offs making safer it you cased it and easier to roll through. Today's MX tracks you can't even go around the track slow. It's full speed or nothing first lap. How you suppose to get used the track if you are a new rider or just first time at the track. That's not how you grow a sport. That's how you keep people from racing. We want big jumps, but we want to be able to roll thorough it first few times then jump a lil further each time without dying until you get the distance down. Tracks can be made alot safer with just as much fun for the Pro and advanced riders having the same huge jumps.
Guess you haven’t been reading obituary section lately. 15-20 deaths yearly. Not reported. Even in Canada we have couple deaths every year on the tracks. Had this been regulated sport. It would be shut down. No business in resource extraction tolerates deaths, without big investigations, workman’s compensation, etc.
I agree. However, the problem is that for the promoters, things are working wonderfully (very profitable). They don't want to change anything while this is the case. As for the manufacturers, there is financial incentive to make a change because their riders are getting hurt and costing them real money as well as marketing value loss from absent riders. The manufacturers, I believe, ultimately have the power to make the change. Likely this would require an in depth study and complex analysis backed by data to convince them of the necessity. The sinister/dark part of this topic is whether or not their is a lust for crashes and the sensationalizing of them. Do promoters and manufacturers secretly believe that crash replays and crash newsreels "sell" the sport to the general public? I do know for a fact that injury inducing crash replays and newsreels cause people to NOT buy dirt bikes. If the goal is to sell more motorcycles, then keeping the pros on the track is good for business. Limiting the torque will keep more pros and more amateurs on the track and ultimately lead to better sales figures and sponsorship dollars. What major corporation wants to sponsor an injured rider?
More natural tracks needed to race on. Almost every MXGP track looks the same now. The tracks are too smooth and fast with no gnarly sections to slow riders down. Nothing wrong with tabletops but there are far too many on the tracks now , it gets monotonous and many more serious injuries and fatalities will occur if nothing is changed.
I disagree, Ryan your riding days ended on a vintage 125 and I intend no insult to you but that disputes your opinion. The modern 450 is the most reliable, raceable bike that privateers have ever had available. They need no more power than they have right off the showroom floor to be competitive. And additionally there's nothing like seeing an elite rider who can truly get the most out of one!
There are removing gp f1 technoligy on the bikes Racing is too dangerous today especially supercross. It's supposed to be racing .If riders want to chance there life go do flips at the fair ...geez
That was a terrible question. Nor was it based in reality. The fact is a 450 is fast, so fast that all the tracks have been changed completely. Yes some "parts are the same but the whole track set up has changed. They have been changed because they do not handle as well as the lighter more nimble bikes. The industry is just making gobs more money, selling twice the amount of repair parts. Follow the money and it’s easy to see what is happening with supercross and MX. it’s a joke and Honda and Yamaha are paying more money to get the best riders. It’s never the bike, it’s the rider, always has been. KTM is just not paying riders nearly as much, everybody knows this.
Actually jumps and multiple jumps modulate the speed and keeps it reasonable. Case in point. Glen Helen essentially has no jumps. It’s 4th 5th high speed. There are far more deaths and serious injuries at that track than the other local tracks. Granted they’re are injuries but not as serious or many as natural high speed tracks with nothing to slow riders down
Really,---a pretty silly question (350/450) lacking reason. New generation from our terrible schools today. The question seems based on a larger bike needing more skill. It takes more skill to move a 125 fast than any 4-stroke. The question is based on a false, (or make believe), premise.
Who is to blame for forcing the faster 4-stroke on the industry? Anybody have a clue? Put a faster engine in a racing machine----and the tracks get faster. Who is responsible for the additional injuries, and even deaths on the track now, (with less people riding)? Anybody have a clue?
Another nascar restrictor plate situation. The sport is dying. 😢 2:41 Yup. And they vacuum for the purist/aka fan. It wasn't a good move. But whatever, that is modern humanity.
A pure stock class to totally show the talent of riders and display the bike of the showroom would be awesome. Obviously there is a bunch of money in advertising, aftermarket parts etc. so it couldn’t be the only class. Can’t believe Yamaha hasn’t made a 350 yet either. Has been the #1 selling bike for KTM for years. The Japanese manufacturers are so far behind when it comes to change implementation. Austrian manufacturers are always trying things. Sure, it may not always work out.
