Mr. House and Andrew Ryan Debate Freedom - AI Voice 

Pretty much.

Even if Ryan is flawed at some points I can get behind him. Same with Ryan Despite everything that happened at Rapture, because you never know when someone intentions to protect people slowly becomes the one to harm them

Ryan embraces human nature's flaws and all, while house fights it for better or worse

@@vincentvalentine4401Ryan looks at poor people like they are parasites

Ironic, since Ryan is more conservative/libertarian which is a position usually associated with realism while House's progressive authoritarianism is the one associated with realism here.

Lmao

Tbf, this places Ryan in a worse position than Obi-wan. Ryan was the builder of an ancap society and saw it fail with his own two eyes which he was indirectly responsible for.

@@imgvillasrc1608 Actually, Rapture's fall was 100% his fault: His AnCapistan utopia had no proper way to address income inequality, which left a sizeable population of downtrodden rife to be exploited by a criminal element he had no way to deal with, and the moment there was a risk that he could lose totalitarian control of Rapture he became the ultimate dictator, depriving his own citizens of even freedom of intellect.

Or these 2 were in the Assassin Creed Universe ❤ Andrew Raye would be an Assassin Mr House would be an Templar

What happens if these two wok together and provide each other?

@@joshuagraham2843 it wouldn't work out, lol, they may have grand designs in their methods, but their goal to that end is not the same, and i would more than likely see them go to war over their ego's, i know it's weird to say a robot or AI has an ego, but often times robots or AI's are so sure of themselves that there could be no other path but their chosen paths, so in a sense that is where the ego comes in. i mean we saw the same logic come from another robot in FO4 by a robo brain robot who used the logic to end all human suffering in the most efficient way was simply to kill them, funny thing about that logic, is it actually makes sense because it would end the suffering because they would no longer exist, just as the logic of the institute in FO4 with Father was to eliminate all other factions on earth so that the future of the world can become prosper as the earth will finally get a chance to heal instead of the prolonged events of constant wars keeping the earth in the state of war and staying within that cycle. i think Shaun had the right idea, but it's morally wrong to have this as his ultimate goal or outcome because it strips freedom and liberty and justice and choice for all other factions that exist in the same space. but i agree with the outcome idea because that would help the earth heal so that they could restart humanity without so much corrupt DNA and factions constantly attempting on destroying the world and each other in that same process. morally it was wrong, but sometimes as a leader you have to make the hard decisions in order to progress into the future for a better outcome of that future or in his case, humanity could have better chances to thrive.

@@joshuagraham2843 That's the ideal - when that happens, the necessary cycle is in place and everything goes well for everyone. The problem is getting them to work together.

i could almost see this being turned into some kind of quote that loops back on itself... maybe.... Peace without Order is Chaos, Order without Freedom is Tyranny, Freedom without Peace is Anarchy i feel like it works pretty well in a "you must provide the first to gain the second and avoid the third" way but i'm willing to bet that others could think of better

No Hes an ignorant arrogant idealist Everything will collapse around him, if only for him, possibly, through his false actions, false values bring bad resolution, and change, as the only true constant, will lead to something new and different, far from what he hoped for, for he has not total control, no matter how powerful he seems and feels. If there is a lot of struggle and it better would have been avoided, can never be known or will be seen later by scholars.

As always

@@centura86 Still a better man than Ryan

@@centura86 and what if Ryan? An idealist who rushed technology and suffered the consequences of not being prepared for the consequences of the enhancement drugs he created. New Vegas works compared to rapture because mr house does not take advantage of people. Take the white glove society for an example mr house left them alone as the white gloves “promised to not be cannibals” clearly that failed Too much freedom is chaos too much order is tyranny house understands both. He is neither Cesar nor president kimbal.

​@@centura86Well, he has been around for 200 years. While Rapture fell after a decade

Both these guys are based on Howard Hughes. The fact that they're so different speaks to how the same ideas can still be interpreted differently.

And how any philosphy can be bastardized by those that want to.​@@zenoblues7787

@@zenoblues7787it’s like debating your clone after a decade separated

Ironically I could see them still being friends despite thier differences....two men who could debate and discuss among themselves

I think that speaks to the writing of this guy, able to see the subtle differences in their philosophies its so smart.

I’ve seen this suggestion a few times and will get to it soon! Haven’t forgotten about it :)

Yes please

​@@TheCouriersGambitthank you

Lol I thought he was joking

Master Splinter would destroy in a debate on that topic lol

Ceasar ( and the writers) don't understand hegel

@@constantinethecataphract5949 Maybe that's the point.

@@constantinethecataphract5949 not the writers, they understand many things, Ceasar is an intentionally flawed character: he tries to emulate a society he doesn't actually understand.

@constantinethecataphract5949 The writers understand Hegel just fine, Caesar intentionally doesn’t understand Hegel.

The problem with Ryan’s society is that it can only maintain its values if the man on top stays on top which is Ryan himself. As soon as someone starts doing better then him he does whatever he can to stop him and remain on top. He’s also a massive hypocrite, he talks about the artist being safe from the censor, but as soon one person wrote a songs making fun of him, he had her killed.

Fucking killed it dude.

Also Mr Ryan what did you do with all those people that tried to express their freedom from your tyranny what about Frank Fontaine the man who had to smuggle in Bibles and cigars because you didn't want religion. You didn't sell Bibles you didn't sell crucifixes you practically opened a market for something that everyone demanded. It was Frank's fontaine's write his freedom to do that job but yet you found him a threat. What about Adam the market on Adam you allowed that freedom to run rampant and then you got mutated crazy people. But that was fine that was okay as long as the money was rolling in but then a war broke out and then you used an experimental hormone to control the splicers taking away that very Freedom you preach about. And then before that you had Frank Fontaine supposedly murdered just because he was exercising his freedom. What about Sophia lamb and her coat it was her freedom to have such a cult if she wanted it. Even you orchestrated a public debate and when she humiliated you your little ego couldn't handle it so you had to throw her in jail. Where she became a much more bigger threat if Rapture was under my management I would have had her clothes at my side you saw her as a threat I would have saw her as an ally and what about Bridget Tenenbaum the woman who let all this madness run rampant you did nothing to control to manage the excessive use of atom even when the results were staring you right in the face it was freedom Freedom with the market your own audio logs say that.

"If I wanted my fill of brazen hypocrisy the NCR Embassy is but a stone's throw away" I fucking burst out laughing lmfao

Man I can already hear Mr House voice reading these lines in his demeaning and reprimanding voice and just awe in how well his delivery would’ve been. This is a well written piece of dialogue man.

Well done this is excellent

Beat me to it. RIP Rene Auberjonois.

Andrew Ryan’s actor is Armin? I never knew that until now.

@@danialshamshuddin Doesn't sound like him, does it? Then and again, I think the Ferengi prosthetics might have given him a slightly nasally sounding voice, so who knows.

@@douglasbabb1725 Apparently the Ferengi teeth did. Armin Shimerman said he had to pull out his old teeth (not like that) when reprising his role for Lower Decks. Granted, he still didn't sound exactly the same, but it still gave him that weird nasally tone.

No effin' way, you've just blown my mind. I grew up watching old DS9 and TNG tapes!

Yes, and that isn't getting into how Andrew followed an ideology which is inherently anti freedom. At first glance it may seem that I am incorrect, until you remember that Andrew destroyed unions and had no social programs, which forces workers into an autocratic system where their bosses are like dictators.

Exaclty, Andrew Ryan was a hypocrite, It wasn't his ideology that caused rapture to fail, It was his hypocrisie that caused rapture to fall. That is the one thing I disagree with house on.

He also talks about the artist being free from the censor, but as soon as one woman started creating songs making fun of him he had her killed.

Didn't he become paranoid and actually started going crazy? At least I seem to recall that being in the book anyway

He also preaches the virtues of the unfettered market, free from state interference, but once the bathysphere was developed and threatened to financially ruin him and most of his backers who'd sunk most of their money into the train system, what does he do? He forces a bailout to save himself despite knowing it would cast the rest of Rapture down into poverty.

They're both right. Although I do like House offering security and work while not bothering with your freedom as long as you don't go murdering people

I did, if a person can make the lives of most people comfortable, enjoyable and safe then let them be ruler for life. I'd much rather be happy under a dictatorship then uncertain in a democracy.

​@@lunkycultist5519 Yeah, I think it's easier to be all ra ra democracy! From a comfortable life in America or Europe when compared to the wasteland. House could build a stable and independent Vegas with little intervention in people's personal lives.

@@ethaneldredge3994 The other things people tend to forget to point out when talking against House's philosophy is that he is, all in all, incorruptible. You cannot bribe him since he already has the monetary means at his disposition. Women, drugs, alcohol, luxury homes, are totally out of the question because he doesn't need them. The only way to actually have a way to alter House's trajectory is by blackmailing him somehow (very unlikely), or to offer him something that is productive towards his goals, like chunks or land near Vegas than can be essentially "annexed" by House. Also, he has TIME. That's something no other faction can say they have.

@@LaGuaridadeChaz he'd be an excellent leader especially if the courier is his right hand man and gets him to care about the Outer Vegas area more. I think if the NCR withdraws , I really doubt that house would just let the fiends or powder gangers run wild especially with the new robot army at his disposal

Thank you for watching! Glad you enjoyed it :)

The Question meets Andrew Ryan I meant, thou having Victor Sage question the irrationality and subjectivity in mortality of the city's anarchy, is a subject to be talk on.

I like that idea.

The Question as voiced by Jeffrey Combs.

More like Kreia would rightfully call Andrew out on the fact he betrayed his own ideals and how his "utopia" was so flawed it lasted a mere few decades before imploding on itself. Even the Sith Empires (even Palpatine's Galactic Empire) lasted longer.

@@DeathMessenger1988 To me Andrew Ryan is like a Teacher or a Person you knew who force their views and ideals onto people than failing to admit if forcing it onto people is really going to fix anything as People need to see or think what is really best for theme or stop and think if forcing things onto people is going to fix anything as you need to help and talk with people in baby steps and see if they want any real help

@@DeathMessenger1988That’s because Star Wars lore is nonsense. They literally made it completely nonsensical for Marka Ragnos to name Exar Kun the Dark Lord of the Sith when Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion and an entire sith empire was out there. Then the republic has to fight Exar Kun, the Mandalorians, Revan, the grand council gets killed by the triarchy of Treya Sion and Nihilus. And somehow the Jedi are just back and competent enough to fight an entire empire of Sith that haven’t been weakened by anything. 😂. Worst story ever written.

@@OrysB-po1fy So... the lore is clearly too complex for you to comprehend, so you feel the need to diss the entire franchise in a discussion that has very little to absolutely nothing to do with what you're saying. Okay, I'll use baby words as much as possible. It's not "completely nonsensical" because, at the time of Exar Kun, Tenebrae AKA Vitiate was still rebuilding the Sith Empire. There's a time period of 1003 years between the Old Sith Empire's Collapse and Exar Kun's Rise to Power, and it took 316 years more before Vitiate's New Sith Empire could strike. The whole point of Exar Kun was not to replace Vitiate, but to turn the Sith from a hostile foreign empire to an ideological cause that could motivate Jedi to fall AND once again let the galaxy suffer at the hands of the Jedi's flawed teachings causing their own members to fall. Between the First Jedi Purge/KOTOR 2 and the Great Galactic War/SWTOR, there's still 273 years. That's plenty of time for the Jedi Order to rebuild, especially since Kreia makes it clear that there were MANY Jedi the Sith Triumvirate didn't kill (i.e. Bastila Shan, Juhani) aside from Meetra Surik and her Padawans. The GGW lasted 28 years, and it's clear by the time of the Cold War that the Jedi have been struggling to keep up. Or haven't you noticed that the Imperial Storylines have the Jedi getting their arses kicked left and right and constantly fuck up. The Sith's inner rivalries and fucked-up policies + Vitiate's own egomaniacal plots are the main reason the Galactic Republic wasn't dust. But I guess understanding all that requires having enough attention span and cognitive skills to pay attention to plot points & details, dialogues and texts. Hard stuff for the majority of the population, especially the people who think Disney Canon is oh so fantastic and original and like being coddled by the Great Horny Rat.

Nine Iron, wedges or putter?

Smasher would see Horrigan as a simpleton. He'd also mock Frank having it easy while Adam has to fight hypersonic missiles, attack helicopters, tanks, mechanized logistics and proffesional cybernetic soldiers. No comparison to deathclaws, tribals and raiders at all.

@@Tonius126 Horrigan would still destroy Smasher. Frank is bigger, stronger, and far, far more powerful than Adam.

Just two guys beating the shit out of each other.

It would honestly be funny if someone set this up like it was going to be a serious fight and then they just smashed each other.

It feels haunting honestly...but my god I adore how it sounds,so authentic

I actually almost put out a video of a conversation between them instead of this one, but it felt strange having them talk, as they would both probably resort to violence after less than a minute

@@TheCouriersGambit Regardless that would be one interesting 30 seconds

xD

Debate lex? I'd see Johnny debating Superman, but I doubt he'd even bother speaking to Lex. Just speaking on characterization

@TheAnonyomusGuy you're right johnny debating Superman is much more interesting than Lex.

Johnny Silverhand debating Lex Luthor would literally just be a gunshot!

Glad you like them!

Thank you very much for the Super! I'm glad you enjoyed the video :)

I would like to meet mr payne

I write them! Thank you!

Clearly, written by a fan of the deep lore of both.

A nice reference to his iconic words, "a man choses, a slave obeys."

Is there an AI voice for Blitzø?

@@pjusttheletterpreally.noth2995 Give it time...

​@@pjusttheletterpreally.noth2995Yes, there is a Brandon Rodgers Ai voice

@@henrycrabs3497 I feel like he'd do the voice in these videos himself ngl

I dunno if an AI voice exists for Amane Kuzuryu, but I would enjoy seeing a debate between her/Remiel and Emily.

You do not choose in autocracy, autocrat does.

have you taken your blackberry joy constable or did you forget?

Mr. House: I survived because my mind was stronger then my body just as you who's will was stronger. Graham: I survived because the Lord saw fit for me to repay my sins. M.H: Is that it, then tell me was it God who dropped the Bombs? Was it God who smothered the world with atomic hellfire? Where was your God...when mankind needed him most. JG: He saw no need to interfere in a relationship in which man saw them as more powerful then He.

That would be a interesting discussion

You are completely right as my main issue I have with Charlie is the fact this to idealist and the fact her idea of redemption is so over simplified to the point she sounds like a 9th grader trying to argue in the defence of Stalin or one of those MFs who try to defend rappers who murdered some one and go *"let my boy go he did non'then wrong 🗣"* from one of those memes. Especially since the universe of hazbin bands over back wards to prove Charlie right with absolutely no backing or actual deep thought provoking challenger to at least question Charlie's flawed ideals and were all supposed to go with it because shis the kind picture perfect princess. Sweet for sure but come on if you at least try to seat down and question the logic of the hazbin verse the more I become convinced there was no thought put in to *How* redemption would operate in said world. Especially since the searous is so black and white and unironicaly goes "the Devil was unironicaly the good guy the entire time boys and girls" since the only people who would have acted as a foil to Charlie's altruistic dream are complete incompetent dummies. Take a look at Adam who just a mysoginstc A hole who adds nothing other than being a shows local sunday villain. I would have loved it if there was an equally endearing character who would logical oppose and act as Charlie's foil interms of ideals and seeing them question each other would have been Hella fun. But allas we just got an over simplified moral conundrum that has Charlie's be right all the way with no one to actually challenge her. Best example being how the Angeles who created the universe and it's rules and yet have no idea the qualification of what it actually takes to get in to heaven or even how the process of getting damhed even works. With Sara the Arch angle who oversore the creation of the Universe and humanity admitting she doesn't know the rules either. This is built upon during Charlie's case against her with Sara and the Angles pulling the most half assed bear minimum reason for why people go to Hell or heaven to stay face. Like "don't murder people" or "dont steal or lie" the real obvious basics, and that was legit enough to put Charlie on the back foot and nearly lose out to Adam of all angles, till light of the fact the Angles didn't know how souls menefested (Despit over seeing the creation of the Universe mind you) conveniently just when Charlie was on the Verge of getting slapped left and right, absolutely ruining the Angles and there stance. It Gave Charlie and opening to fire back despite the ramifications of that knowledge baring so much narrative weight and making no sense to the point im convinced that tid bit of knowledge only exists to validate Charlie's skew point of view. And even though the Angles arguments were also pretty trash and basic to the point it felt like a Tumblr discussion section. It was ironically enough to put pressure on Charlie all the way until that mcguffin of knowledge that the Angles didn't know what the Hell they were actually even talking about being what actually saved her trifling and shaky foundation from completely breaking and collapsing. This is built upon on how Charlie despite knowing heavens corrupt and genuinely not know what there even doing (which is still dumb given the fact they created the Universe and it's rules and not to mention most people who go to heaven are actualy good people with the people who go under being repeatedly shown to have done terrible things) she still tries to help send them to heaven despite knowing just how scummy the Angles are and how brokenly corrupt Heavens structures is. With her singing an entire goddamhe song (which is catchy NGL) proving she genuinely acknowledgeds how full of crap heaven is. And yet still tries to send them to heaven. What's even the point of redemption and helping souls go to heaven if Heaven is just run by a bunch of holier than though prentenouse dumb D heads who don't even know there own rules they at the very least helped create??? And yet the show glauses over this very important and structurally set up narrative that changes everything we thought about the hazbin world world, to not make Charlie come out as an altruistic dummy who genuinely doesn't have a plan beyond just having a hope and a dream that we know for a fact is doomed to fail now that we know how heaven is really run. I'm sorry but Charlie would absolutely be torn to shreds by Joshua if they ever got in to a moral argument about redemption and who deserves it and doesn't, just due to how overly simplyfied Charlie's ideals are. Though they would agree on the very basics I do think they would invetbly come to blows with Charlie eventually losing out to Joshua. It would have helped better of hazbin hotel was more moraly grey and Ambiguous as it at the very least gives both sides and Alibi for why they took there stands. And it would have helped better if Adam was actually wise instead of being the shows punching beg as he would have acted as a medium to better argue and communicate with Charlie and would have allowed gradual conflict of doubt and character growth to Charlie's till she eventually reached a balance with Heaven. Instead of the show scewing and brute forcing its way into making Charlie right with absolutely no way of her being wrong what's so ever. As her Nobel mission must be moraly righteous with not hint of irony or philosophical conflict or even the questioning of its feasabilty. And those who oppose her ideology are simply an obstacle that must conform through hugs or be destroyed and burned on the hot pier of her pitchfork for hindering her benevolent mission.

@@CopeSeethorntin Err..heh, quite the essay you have made. Here's my simple conclusion, Joshua graham would talk to Charlie like he would to a little girl, or be a somewhat father figure to her, about right and wrong. I do respect Charlie good intentions, even thou their means are child like, I still value her good intentions, just her means be questionable, like making a hotel a group therapy session, then simply a Hotel for sinners and demons to relax and unwind their troubles in hell. What I would like to see, is Charlie run a hotel and simply talk demons and sinners of their problems, offoring place to enjoy and find purpose. You know like instead of "moral gray" way between heaven and Hell, you could simply have demons visiting the hotel to find peace and sence of "change of new leaf" like you would to a friend who is not happy. To keep this simple, I would have Charlie running a hotel like normal business, with the intention to help demons and sinners as people, you can have Charlie close friend, college, Adam and her father tell her how this is not ideal, challenging her ideals and keeping her conviction true, as she is the heroine of the story and you only want the best for her. And for Alastor and Adam, both could be won hearts and mind to Charlie, as well Angels would come to the hotel, place where demons and angels could be share common interests and be friends. I know what I would have is corny, and itself could just be ideal as her, just how I would set up is keeping it rational, without compromising morality itself. This show is still a lighthearted cartoon, so I would like to keep it that way. So to simplify, I would like the show be more rational and thought out by the creator, as I bet she don't understand how heaven and hell is actually be, while also maintain good values to Charlie and her friends. I would want Adam be more thought out more, as I bet he was made purely as a strawmen character, and not a the first man of god with years of experience and divine knowledge over the years, as to his perspective, Hell is a place for bad people and they should remain imprisoned always, so Charlie could challenge that as a argument. I apologise for the long comments friend, I want to discuss more, yet for now this is just a basic perspective of my words to the show, i don't like it yet I don't hate it, as I only want it be more care to the characters and writing be rational, and not a "look how edgy we are" like a child would say if he or she thinks what adults do.

@@samjudge1240 I whole heartily agree sorry if the comment was so long it's just after fighting a pointless argument, tooth and nail through a hord of Hazbin hotel fans who would crucify you for calling out there princess. It was just a nice change of pace to finely find some one who agrees with my sentiment regarding this topic as the show of simplifies complex topic while over complicating basic topics. As the show would dedicate entire episodes exploring the complexities of whether or not murder or cheating "realy" bad, but spend 2 to 3 dialogues ochemz razering through kants entire autobiography on ethics without really adding to it. It's just become incredibly exhausting trying to take the show seriously as I feel like it's moved away from its main premise and over focusing on daddy issues 1 to many times,l and irrelevant character plots as the show begun moving away from the purpose of the hotel itself and towards random character side quest, that though contribute towards character progression adds absolutely nothing to the over arching narrative. Especially since most of the characters who could have challenged Charlie's views till she eventually begun to comprehend the notion on how whether or not her goals are achievable. Had effectively been nueterd, his father had just gone with Charlie after she talked no jutsud him, Adam is dead meaning theres no one left to act as her foil without being a deuch. And she had seemingly gotten everything she wanted and he had won and been seemingly proven right in the with no ideological conflict or any one to challamge her what's so ever. And I feel like the show is heading in to an endgame type directions where they now have to battle with the big and final antagonist such as her mother in a big epic battle. while the show most likely abondening the idea of the hotel all together narrative and story wise. Your idea of what Hazbin hotel could have been is better than what I could have ever dreamt up. I still think it should have evend the playing field between heaven and Hell through Adam and Charlie so it could at the very least allow character development for both parties as they learn to accept both point of views. As good intentions isn't gonna do much if the foundations you built them upon are destined to fall and crack. And I think Charlie finely comprehending that notion and learning how most situations arnt ideal and you have to cut corners and compromise on your Values is important for a good story. As Charlie at the moment is the text book defenetion of a merry sue where things just work out because this the MC and nice and where people sing combayia (is that how you spel it😅) while just ignoring the realities of whether or not her idea's are actually sustainable or achievable in full.

@@CopeSeethorntin I understand parts of your view friend, as I originally thought Hazbin Hotel was supposed to be a rag to riches story about running a hotel in hell, how Charlie wanted the place to help demons and sinners by simply running a hotel, like restaurant and to music events, as this is a musical show. I can see the creator did allow writers to loose track to the main premise of the hotel, and it did turn to a petty melodramatic family issue, heck Angel Dust, Husker and even Alastor was downplayed to a lackluster storytelling, i myself would love to see more Angel Dust Italian American backstory a little with his Italian mafia family when he was on earth during the 1930s 40s, or even more about Husker and Alastor, yet they seem to be put to the side to new characters that seem unessasery, as well have little to do with the plot or even the hotel. As for Charlie compromising hee ideals, or "cut corners" her values, I would think that's not necessary, as you can have her ideas challenge, yet still process to her goals, like how if Sonic or superman never give up their goals, they simply think outside the box and be creative. And I understand it can be frustrating to fans, even they love something, they can be in a bubble if someone question and criticize the brand. Like me defending Vegeta to DBZ fans who want to compromise Vegeta to "western" mindset, risk of distorying his character and missing the point how good Goku really is to him, as he what inspired and influenced possative to Vegeta by being the defender of earth. I think what I see in Hazbin Hotel in a nutshell, is it's disappointing, it could of been more focus and thought out carefully, rational and mature, while being possibly touching and cathartic show. What put be off is how childish and unfocused it became, being much like a cringe sappy Disney/safe kids cartoon show, then a mature, intelligent yet fun show about the perspective of Charle Morningstar and the nature of Hell to Heaven. I may be focusing too much detail the the creator herself (as well the people of A40 I think, or simply Amazon) yet when I've seen the pilot on RU-vid, I've seen potential and simply want to be good for me to enjoy. Lastly, having characters profanity and making cheap sex/drug jokes, not what I class as adult, or if so, I find the humor and dialogue more childish millennial writing, then smart and mature. Granted, seeing how heaven and hell is made, is a reminder how modern creators mostly can't do heaven and hell right without trying to "modernize" the world and characters like you would to a California view to everything, when Heaven and hell are beyond our reality, making the fantastical less so, if you get my meaning.

It's exactly why rapture fell. He believed he was the apex predator in the game of the survival of the fittest. He never believed he was wrong, even at the end.

Towards the end whether he liked it or not Ryan was forming a state just toc cope with the externalities of drugs and red gangesters.