@jhutchmb true, you can see ETA primes old benchmark videos from launch day of Ally. Even before cyberpunk was patched with 2.0, it's still crushes msi
After owning the Ally since launch last year. I used my SD card reader for the first time a few days ago. It died almost instantly. Getting it ready for RMA. My point however, is the SD card is unnecessary. I upgraded the SSD day one to 2tb, and haven't needed or used the drive until now. It's only because I sold my Steam Deck, and wanted to transfer ROMs over.
The SD card issue is actually a plus. Gonna send it back just before my warranty expires after 2 years. The store i bought it from usually gives you a brand new device in return.
@Trikkie87 warranty isn't handled by the store unless it's an authorized service center for Asus. I just sent mine in, but I had option of taking it to MicroCentet
I can deff say that the RMA process wasn't too bad. Sent it to them and they repaired it (replacing the original motherboard), then sending it back, and I haven't had the issue so far.
That's a good point, the gains have been massive. Hopefully with driver updates and further development, intel can close that gap further. Nothing against AMD but one company running the show is never good for consumers
@@OwenOrsettiwon’t be intel maybe Nvdia but intel could only do 2 things a top x86 cpu with crazy power draw and server chips that’s it. The ultra chip gets best by amd last year chip
I think I'll wait until it's on sale due to not selling and buy it at a huge discount. I've learned from experience that Intel graphics drivers take a while to mature. Most corporations panic from lower sales and lower the prices fairly fast when products don't sell like they want. I'll buy later and enjoy better performance at lower price. Thanks for the lesson ETA PRIME!
Unfortunately, I’ll be getting the MSI. I hate asus with a passion. Between being a previous asus fan boy and using several asus laptops at work I’ve discovered nothing but issues and failed hardware. I’ve since switched to MSI products for all my personal use and have had nothing but great experiences. It’s really a shame but I just can’t get over my terrible experiences with asus as a brand.
@@gregorywilson2124 no , it's only intel , on ally it's doing fine after asus made some optimisations but it wasn't that bad from the first place, intel it's just like Samsung with exyons
@@cilllee2308 indeed, they fixed the manufacturing process, now they have issues only with modem , but intel has slept a long time just milking us and now they deserve all , if Qualcomm chips are soo good then it's game over for intel and amd
There's a lengthy review by Phawx (IIRC) where he experimented with actually disabling E-cores ... it was an all out disaster for the Claw. I wonder what Intel did wrong here. But it seems that they cannot operate properly at lower power. Just watching the Afterburner readouts, the Claw does not clock the iGPU high enough while the Ally has no such issues while also running better CPU clocks. After the initial review I thought disabling E-cores would give the iGPU more power but it looks like the P-cores eat that right up. Maybe disabling the boost mode and E-cores ? But at that point what is the advantage here ... Looks like Intel went with "bigger number better" on the core count here while missing the power envelope completely.
Indeed. Handheld makers should have learned from the Steam Deck which manages to get the best performance per watt of all of them even though its chip is manufactured on an inferior 6nm process. You don't need 24 cores in these handhelds, even 4-core can be enough.
Maybe 4p 6e 2lp cores would be a better config? That *might* lower the overall power draw, though these fewer cores could then clock a bit higher and would maybe even use the same amount of power. The Ally is pretty good in its power management, I've had a great time with mine
@@dreamcat04 I've wondered also why none of these handhelds use configurations slanted towards low-power cores. I mean, that's what phones do (Example iPhone uses 2p + 4e) so you'd figure the same would work here.
I still think it's more MSI's fault. Seeing 216 processes in Windows tells me they've did jack $#!t to debloat the Windows install. Also, I wouldn't put it beside them to have MSI Center being a power hog.
I'm still disappointed by the Claw's current performance. However, I'm still rooting for it for selfish reasons. I like the fact that it has a USB4 port compared to the propriety port on the ROG Ally. Just hoping both MSI and Intel will optimize the device further, fingers crossed it does not take them 6 months though.
@@katieadams5860 thank you so much for mentioning this but I'm well aware of the Legion Go's USB4 port. I was ready to pull the trigger on the Go but decided to pause until the Claw's reviews finally dropped. I think I prefer the Claw's design over the Go, also the fan noise is much better on the Claw than on the Go from some other reviews I have seen here on YT, pity about its current performance though.
@@tebo2286 yeah, I personally am not optimistic it will get substantially better. Intel still doesn't have a good history with GPU drivers. Amd has way more experience than Intel. Even if performance gets better overtime it will still lose in power efficiency. Intel has done terrible in that department especially since alder lake
@@tebo2286I'm probably still going to get it too for the reasons of wanting an arc GPU in a handheld. Its rough now, but I know that Intel will push out drivers that will improve the overall performance and at least compete with its amd counterparts.
@@rometherevenant8749 I get you and fully agree that performance will improve over time. My biggest gripe is that I believe we the consumers are giving too much leeway to these device manufacturers and game studios to the point where it's now an industry standard and blueprint for them to initially drop sub-par products while expecting us consumers to bear with them until they get their mess in order. For $800 I personally expect a plug-n-play, well-optimized device from the get-go with occasional patches to enhance the quality-of-life of the device, not the roundabout practice by these manufacturers.
Tdp is no longer a good measure to compare power on handheld devices. Go watch the review of the MSI Claw from "The Phaux". It's really a masterclass of how Handheld device's power should be compared in the future (with total package power instead of TDP) . Your video is a good video nonetheless 👍 the Claw is just an awful device unfortunately...
@@BahhBahhBrownSheep not taking sides or anything but why are you even here when you obviously don’t like the content? Just seems like there’s gotta be a better use of your time.
It's pretty clear that the Claw should have been performing much better than it currently is. I think it's a matter of drivers and optimization. I have the OneXplayer 1S, that has the i7 1195G7, with the Iris Xe 96EU, and it can achieve 36 fps in Shadow of the Tomb Raider, medium settings, 720p, TAA, at 20W (38 fps at 28W). No way the Ultra 7 155H, with Arc Graphics 128EU, can only achieve 2 fps more at 20W.
Look - at the moment the Claw is bad but who knows what some updates will bring in the coming months. What I'm mostly excited about is the future of handhelds in general. The more big companies we have competing in this space, the better it is for us consumers! I can't wait to replace my gaming PC with a docked handheld. I could almost do it now with my Ally.
As expected, Intel drivers just cannot compete with AMD. That was always looking like the real outlier, given that the Ally has been out a while, the performance differences look to speak for themselves. I don't think the Ally ever performed that badly and I've had it since launch.
i'm sure there should be a way to create a product with more performance, slightly bigger, with a gpu included, but still smaller than a laptop, something like 11" or 12" using linux or steamos, battery will last longer. that's the key to improve this type of devices. maybe playstation or xbox will understand and explore that room for improvements.
I'd like to see more testing with the Onexplayer X1, I was an early donor and just got mine yesterday. So far I love it!! Granted, I didn't buy it for the intel processor but more so the unique form factor. It's like a surface go for gaming, something I had wanted for a long time. Love your content, greetings from Arctic Alaska 😁
Same...I'm in the batch #2 and probably will not get mine until April, even though I ordered a couple days after campaign launched 😐 I know the details, read the updates of the delay and have 2 x OneXplayer handhelds already so I trust One-Net, but still. The waiting... I also agree, the OneXplayer X1's saving grace it it's different enough with other functions it will probably be the most successful "Intel" handheld for a couple years. Still plan on getting an AMD X1 or X2 when it inevitably comes out and give the Intel one to family.
Kind of how I expected the results to be. Although I could not recommend to get the claw over the Ally I feel Intel could see the results between the two and as the next gen of chips come out they will look to close / beat AMD. Definitely be interesting to see if Nvidia enter this market too. If Microsoft get behind a gaming os I feel these devices could be a big fixture in gaming. I have got the 3080 for my Ally and it's a game changer when docked I do feel purring a deal on with these cards could be a big deal.
I tried the Claw in one of MSI event lately, I do think the ergonomic design is better. I also just read through the driver and bios update get performance boost from some articles. I might consider to get one. Will see~
Thanks about the comparison, actually I try some of the handhelds. MSI claw performs pretty well in my case, the feeling and the experience are great. After updating the latest driver, it feels much smoother. MSI keeps their promise👍
The msi claw is not worth it right now. Its more expensive than the rog ally but it performs worse. Even the steam deck oled performs better in games than the msi claw and the steam deck is cheaper. Hopefully msi claw starts making new driver updates to improve the performance. But for right now, its better to buy the rog ally than the msi claw
After a few months of owning the Rog Ally, I still think it's the best handheld PC on the market, while still recognizing that it has flaws. I actually don't use it as much for gaming as I thought I would. I use it more for browsing and other daily tasks, with some gaming on the side. I love the form factor, and it's perfect for bringing around the house. The battery life is its weakness, but it's still the best product on the market IMO. These handheld PC's are already great, and will only get better in later generations.
seeing E cores now performs around zen2/Steam Deck level, why not park all P cores and some of the E cores while excluding LPE cores? I was hoping to see someone doing this since 16 physical cores really struggles in a thermal and power limited form factor like this.
AMD optimizing their Video Encoding Acceleration especially on their iGPUs would be the final nail in the coffin for Intel. Unfortunately, software compatibility isn't that ripe yet compared to Intel Quicksync.
As an owner of both variants of the Ally I can honestly say the normal Z1 will probably outperform the high end MSI Claw once debloated and setup correctly. Mine runs very well after tweaking/debloating it. Quite impressive actually.
Arc doesn’t seem that bad tbh as often it seems to be well under its max clock probably getting outbid for power budget by the greedy cpu. See the 135h vid for reference if you dont believe me. That apu shouldve been a simple quad core and 32gb ram.
I decided to go with the Ally because the Claw was performing poorly. Watched some other RU-vidrs and the claw kept crashing on games that the Ally which is older worked on. Maybe later when they get the kinks fixed.
Im surprised the msi claw still won on battery life, i do wonder if the msi claw battery will fit in the rog ally given how similar the devices designs are
I have ROG ally, I love it but I would also like to experience the claw one day. I’ve tried the steam deck before the ally came out but waited till ally came out to purchase. I’ve also looked at the other handhelds out there and I’m happy you have done a review for most. Tho in the hands of each user specs and likes will very. Thank you again for a awesome video and review
Performance will probably improve with future updates and things like that, but right out of the box using double the wattage and STILL not outperforming the deck on some games just makes it kind of embarrassing. It’s a shame. The ally and the deck are still king.
I can see this presuming that intel can sort drivers out being very similar performance to the ally not much in it one might beat the other in some games in the end but not much difference. Price you would say is quite high and the high wattage idle for no reason is a problem that can’t be fixed. But ideally in the end both are good devices but ally can’t be beaten on price per performance at this moment in time between these two
For intel first launch arc handheld, it actually impress me. The gpu on par with rdna 2 on steamdeck. We can expect to improve in near future when they sort out the driver. Just sad that msi didn't offer competitive price point. At least 135h is better than z1. They should have stick with that low price mark (499) and may be the claw could have a standing ground like steamdeck despite lacking in performance.
It's not the same benchmarks. In firesteuke it says battlefield 1440 in intel and 1080 in amd..so there not even the same resolution which makes a huuuge difference
It’s a estimation of how a game would perform at different resolutions and settings based on the score it achieved, it literally has no effect on the benchmark…
i have rog ally. Happy with it but for the games i play, mostly gpu friendly jrpg i would of considered the MSI claw if the price was much 40% lower then rog
Well, if you look at the a770, it has 4096 shaders. Meanwhile, the 7800xt has 3840 RDNA 3 shaders (the z1 extreme also has RDNA 3) and has about 2x the performance of the a770. These intel soc's have 1024 shaders vs the z1's 764. Really no surprise here. RDNA 3 shaders are much more powerful than Arc shaders at this point.
I might have missed it, but we're not allowed to disable cores? Who would have thought we'd need that many threads on a gaming-focused product? It really seems like this is on MSI, not Intel. They probably wanted to get in on the handheld craze ASAP and this was the cheapest and most available chipset they could get. TSMC can't just make more Z1 Extremes on a dime.
I love how you really try to be as objective as possible and compare apples to apples. That been said, why not compare with FSR/XeSS enabled? Those technologies are part of the iGPU's capabilities, so I feel the comparison should be between the full potential of full iGPUs. Also, not sure if you also disabled it, but Adrenaline enables RSR in you chose HYPR-RX as default, which would give AMD and unfair advantage.
I think msi needs some optimizations . 20 watt to 30 watt barely makes a difference. I think it is unfair to say MSI claw is bad at this point. It might become a lot better in a few months...
I had an Ally and I really liked it, but the battery life and lack of power at lower TDP ultimately turned me off of it. I bought an Odin 2 and local steam my games to it. They look better, my battery life is excellent, and generally lag is no problem at all. I have a WiFi 6 mesh system
Hello, what's wrong with the stick of the ROG ally, I have one and it's my first console ever, never held a PS Pad before so I don't know the difference
Yeah... I'm not sure how much longer people are going to swallow the "Intel is newer in this space" excuse. Not that it's bad... it's quite ok for what it is, but at some point people start getting tired of hearing that Intel is working on it's drivers, it's going to get better, and whatnot. I mean, people can give it a break since it is competing on this sector that has been a duopoly for too long (I mean, graphics for gaming in general, not just portable gaming), but not when it's charging similar prices of products that are markedly better like that.
It doesn’t have to be the best, just competent enough as a handheld device and this is it. For the price though? Even if it was a way better device I would stick with the Deck. Unless that thing can run VR games I would not pay that much for a handheld.
I love how people like this @ETAPRIME fella see more cores and assume better. It’s really an 8 vs 8 core comparison. 4 e cores basically equals one p core. E cores are beefed up Atom cores. For marketing looks great I guess. Threads do matter, but really only for productivity and parallel computing. Yes games are parallel but at the same time, the CPU is not the heavy lifter for games. Finally, until Intel sorts their driver issues, the Intel iGPUs will never get close to AMDs solution. This isn’t optimization necessarily…I want Intel to stay in the GPU game, and I’m glad they’re actually taking iGPUs seriously (finally), but they’re still a long way from parity.
I could care less about the specs because I don't plan to play any graphics intensive games. I'm more concerned about affordability and that will seal the deal for me.
Even if you take out the FPS being better than the Claw, the temps of the Intel chip seems to run way hotter. Which probably is what's causing the stuttering in game. Why MSI decided to go Intel still is baffling.
trouble with tests like these - people pay money to have portable gaming on at least high settings. My Asus Ally Rog has so far been able to play anything in High or ultra. I play God of War in a lower resolution than full HD but all effects and everything else maxed out for a good 40fps minimum. I'd never play a game in LOW graphics. Don't see the point in playing triple AAA games so low quality.
Geez....22-threads....my 12700K is showing it's age! EDIT: I'm not a coder but I'm assuming that outside of power balance issues between the IGPU and CPU on the Claw. The second issues seems to be experiences. AMD has a long history with graphics performance and optimization. Not to mention, it's not a far throw from the last 2 console generations. Based on my experiences with AMD drivers, it seems that many GPUs (like my Legion-Go currently running ROG Ally's drivers), I think their drivers probably aren't alien when converting to PC. I wouldn't be surprised of driver optimization considering their whole ecosystem.
ETA, why are the results here for Forza and Cyberpunk SO MUCH WORSE than your X1 First Look video with the same cpu??? Please reply if you can. I decided to keep my x X1 preorder and I'm confused by these results on your videos....
That was sort of mentioned in some other reviewer where he thinks the reason the X1 might do better than the MSI is because of the extra ram 32GB or 64GB. I am really hoping that is the case, though I doubt it would make that much difference.
IDK man, I see the hope for it. The MSI claw runs things like Lies of P and Bannishers Ghosts of New Eden for me at 40-60 FPS low detials 1080P 40Ws (which is better then the Ally). However, on the other hand, it freezes everrytime I try to open something like Horizen Zero Dawn, or FF7 when I had an older driver installed. It's soo all over the place. It just needs some time, the Ally had issues too, maybe not this bad, but it had issues.
Little silly here, I would really like to see and msi claw at 35 watts... I don't really care at what to watch especially cuz the claw has a bigger battery I think the correct way to do this comparison would be runtime to run time so whatever it ran for 2 hours on each unit test it that way.. tho I would rather see Max in each device.. battery life to battery life it's kind of silly to me it's not that hard to carry a little battery brick for long trips..
I like how the whole internet has just unanimously decided that the MSI Claw is trash lol. And that’s because it literally is. AMD chips have: - FSR (HUGE) - Better power efficiency - Better performance - Better driver support and stability Imagine if the MSI Claw had a Z1 Extreme chip, and better bumpers. With a 53 watt/hr battery, that would actually be worth talking about. But I guess someone was contractually obligated to make an Intel handheld instead haha
Msi should have just use AMD. As far as I really wish Intel would succeed in GPU market, they just cannot match the efficiency of AMD in both CPU and GPU.
Intel Arc is garbage. it's no good for gaming, maybe for interior decoration simulation. MSI could have integrated a 3060 mobile into the claw. Even with a price of 1k the machine would have been a beast. AMD crushed it with the Z1 extreme.
MSI signed the death note for the Claw by partnering with Intel. Intel GPUs just can't compete with AMD as of now and they have a ways to go before they can optimize it properly. They jumped a little too soon in the handheld scene and dragged MSI along with it. I hope MSI realizes this and goes with AMD for the Claw 2. No amounts of optimization can fix Claw's terrible performance.
@@IIXxSLAYERxXII For CPUs yes but not for any integrated solutions. I am sure they will catch up soon but they need to let its Arc GPUs cook further before dolling them out just like that.
I don't get it,why no emulation tests,isn't that what this channel is about. I'm all about playing retro games via emulation on my handhelds I don't really care how they run pc games.
AMD did well with those processors, also although flawed asus got the format right for the Ally, who knows if they do the smart thing and support it while they improve their software layer the but the silver line here are the temps, just 10 degrees cooler will go a very long way for this format
why did MSI think that intel is a good idea in portable device, using intel in laptops or anything on battery is a big mistake, the efficiency is so bad on intel, amd definitely has and will have strong grip in console market for quite some time.
