MUCH STRONGER 3D prints due to LESS COOLING! Testing PLA & PETG

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I tested how much the strength or better the layer adhesion of FDM 3D prints is affected by the amount of cooling air we use. By properly adjusting this value we can increase the strength of our parts by more than 50% and make them almost uniformly strong.
I also scanned a couple of 3DBenchys printed at different fan speeds with my AtosCore from GOM to find out how cooling affects the accuracy of 3D prints.
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TESTED MATERIALS
Spoolworks PLA: e3d-online.com/spoolworks-pla
DasFilament PETG: www.dasfilament.de/filament-s...
PrintaMent PET-G: www.aprintapro.com/shop/print...
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Опубликовано:

9 авг 2019

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Комментарии : 648

@CNCKitchen 5 лет назад

Feel free to share the video on Facebook, Reddit, Twitter and other social media!

@NicMediaDesign 5 лет назад

Why don't you share your videos on r/3Dprinting or elsewhere?

@PRO3DESIGN 5 лет назад

Shared in my V-King builders group. You have the best videos

@Unmannedair 5 лет назад

I found uniform flow to be highly important for high speed printing. With high speed printing you're only cooling the skin of the extruded plastic, so less is better.

@rico3696 4 года назад

What kind of PETG filament do you recommend? AprintAPro does not supply filament anymore, would you still recommend DasFilament?

@CNCKitchen 4 года назад

Das Filament is good stuff. Still use it regularly.

@mahmoudelsharawy5405 5 лет назад

Print a Benchy. Scan it. Print the scanned Benchy. Scan the printed Benchy. Print the scanned Benchy. Scan the printed Benchy. Keep going until the Benchy is unrecognizable.

@matneu27 5 лет назад

Then sell it as art. You will get rich 😉

@kurtownsj00 5 лет назад

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-QEzhxP-pdos.html Jpeg style

@hakont.4960 5 лет назад

Basically the physical version of the "Google translate loop". :D

@goury 4 года назад

This is against benchies license

@hakont.4960 4 года назад

@_ David _ Yes. :D

@japonicaren 4 года назад

Always print Benchy pointing into the wind.

@g60force 4 года назад

open the nearest windows pointing towards the ocean!

@keithkittler188 4 года назад

Should I do this with ABS?

@vRachel 4 года назад

@@keithkittler188 do it

@pr0xZen 3 года назад

@@keithkittler188 I believe PEEKs will yield more usable strength than ABS. Unless you have back warping trouble. Then you need more focus on ABS.

@rossmarzano 3 года назад

Never piss from the windy side of the boat.

@damagedtalent 5 лет назад

Your videos are always really really well done both for simple watchability and indepth testing Thank you very much!

@CNCKitchen 5 лет назад

Thank you!

@vladimirseven777 4 года назад

Video starts at 4:49 Too long ads works against advertiser.

@KillerI-gc4fe 4 года назад

Ads usually never influence what I buy anyway.

@dylan.m8865 4 года назад

cgwworldministries advertising has a huge impact on sales. Sometimes it is more subconscious than we realize.

@themanhasnoname4984 4 года назад

@@dylan.m8865 aren it against my privacy to alter my sunconcius mind?? -as i cant directly erase any ad from it!

@you_just 4 года назад

Duck it’s funny that you think advertisements don’t have an effect on what you buy.

@Gomisan 3 года назад

thankyou! Saved 5 mins of my life

@jeffwitz8556 5 лет назад

As you already have the installation for annealing, it could be very interesting to see if you can cancel the impact of cooling with annealing. It could be a good way to have both of gemometric quality and strengh performances.

@solventlessherbalist135 8 месяцев назад

Have you tried annealing pla with salt or sand or something similar? If so how did you change the scale of your model before printing?

@SimplyV3rna 4 года назад

My 9to5 is being test analyst and I can say your videos are a joy to watch. You know what to test, what to include in scope and what to leaves to chances and assumptions (coz it is impossible to cover all scenarios in a completely digestible video).

@JohnOCFII 5 лет назад

I can’t believe my first comment is about the fantastic book you mentioned in your ad! I’m a pilot, and, while not really an engineer, can really appreciate the skills. That is a _fantastic_ book! I’m also humbled to say that I know people who participated in the early days of the Skunkworks.

@cptcrazyfingers9639 5 лет назад

Stefan, I listened to that audio book a few months ago and I was depressed when it was over. As an engineering student I felt the same as you about the technical struggles they faced. I was also very intrigued by the fact that Skunk Works had to literally invent, and fabricate, new tools and methods in order to achieve their design goals. Also, great video!

@dagoelius 4 года назад

Thats what I loved about Skunkworks.

@genioee 5 лет назад

Thank you very much for this illusive test! As 3D printing is a field of mostly hobbyists (only those share information), many sources are very contradicting. Your (and others ofc) rigor really drives good quality information spreading and clears very important questions. Much needed answers should be found for strength, since quality vision based is really well explored, but repeatable strength tests are VERY rare. Since I build mostly usable parts this is of high interest to me - Thank you very much! Keep it going!

@truantray 5 лет назад

3D printing on RU-vid is mostly semiemployed man children making pointless knickknacks, and one stripper.

@TheSuburban15 3 года назад

Just getting into PETG now. All the contradictory information is rather confusing and irritating.

@martincoufal7598 5 лет назад

Your videos are always great. Thank you for your scientific/technical approach to every topic you investigate.

@iteerrex8166 5 лет назад

Very nice! Independently testing all the major parameters is a great idea. Looking forward to the rest of this series. Thanks Stefan!

@astro7996 5 лет назад

What an excellent video Stefan!! Thanks for doing this kind of tests and sharing your results.

@sinitarium 4 года назад

BAM! One amazing video after the other!! You are killing it. You answered so many of my questions already in 90m of videos using science this is superb I am out of superlative to describe how impressed I am.. I'll have to review these videos again and again because so much useful info it is mind blowing. I was also under the impression that cooling was having a huge impact on layer adhesion. Thank you so much for doing this video and getting so deep and technical about it that you answered all my questions and many more I did not even think about yet... Also, 3d scanning to conpare actual print to the model is so cool!

@andrewstallard1897 2 года назад

Absolutely a pioneer for us in the 3d community. I thank you for the time and effort you put into your work. Thanks again and again! - Andy

@markymark9516 3 года назад

what a video. thank you for getting to the point about almost EVERY question I have about cooling. PLEASE keep it up and never leave my feed!:)

@19mitch54 5 лет назад

I tried to get a job as a mechanical engineer at Skunk Works. By the time they got back to me (almost a year later), I had already accepted another job. This other job with General Physics eventually sent me back to the rocket site at Edwards very close by. That was about 20 years ago. I worked there for a couple of years. The desert there is miserably hot and windy. I love your informative videos. I make parts for function and don't care how ugly they are. I will try to print with less cooling to see if I can get stronger parts.

@ifell3 5 лет назад

I always enjoy watching these tests, you know your doing well when Amazon says hi!!

@HrDernacht 4 года назад

Always been printing sucessfully without cooling and with the lowest viable temp for layer adhesion - very nice to have seen this quantified so thank you very much for that 👍

@Mike01Hu 5 лет назад

Another competent video with short and to-the-point dialogue! It is so important to note that filament from different manufacturers can behave in totally different ways. It would be interesting to see strength tests with different colours too, as I have had dramatically different results for the same part made in different colours.

@matneu27 5 лет назад

Very interesting facts to look at my next prints. In my opinion the issue of parts strength is important on things which design is given or you couldn't make bigger/stronger. 99% of the parts I print I created self and try to make them stronger by the design, if needed or failed by the first test. If I copy a broken part (that is not available or too expensive) and print it, I had to use all settings, including your video, to make sure the part will be able to replace the original.

@martylawson1638 5 лет назад

I'd love to see how print temperature interacts with part cooling. My favorite PETG settings are 270C and 60% min fan speed on Mono-price I3 with the Dii duct.* This gives good overhangs and layer adhesion sufficient that the fracture surface of a hand broken test doesn't follow the layer lines. Normally this would also cause hellish stringing, but I print from a dry-box using molecular-sieve/Zeolite desiccant so my filament is SUPER dry. (* haven't calibrated the hot end, and PIDs needs tuning. often reads 255C during prints)

@TheSuburban15 3 года назад

Well, I guess that kinda confirms that my 235 degree setting was too low.

@adrianchupp 5 лет назад

Thank you Stefan, this video is cool and helpful! I love how your engineering comes out in your videos!

@BRUXXUS 5 лет назад

I was JUST wondering about this! You're always right on time with awesome testing for my questions. :)

@RansomMakes 5 лет назад

Thanks for making this video, I was curious and your results confirmed. Excellent work.

@3D_Shamrock 4 года назад

Thank you Stefan for your professional researches ! As a beginner in 3d printing field I need the information you provide on your channel.

@MadHatter123456 5 лет назад

Thank you! Was waiting for a test like this! Awesome! :)

@jonwebb9261 4 года назад

It's so refreshing to see somebody with an engineering background do truly valid testing on 3D printing. Great content :)

@christianholderith7611 4 года назад

Very informative. I am new to 3D printing and will be receiving my first printer today, so am looking forward to printing. Information videos like yours is very helpful and an enjoyable learning experience. Thanks!!

@emmanuelrodriguez2346 4 года назад

I'm receiving mine tomorrow. Also watching videos xD

@GerDirtyHarry 5 лет назад

Thx for this comparison it get even worse if you print in a cold room (once i wasn t able to finish a print by a room- temp of 17°C with PETG it cracks while printing with fan on). Would be interesting how quality and strength comes out in a heated chamber with cooling fan which throws hotter air on the print :)

@chrisiles1081 3 года назад

Great info, thank you. I especially like your attention to detail, not just accepting the results, but proving them by using sensible thoughtful tests. Thank you :-)

@akiyaburst5782 5 лет назад

Yess brah, your vids are so well tested mate

@Andrewjasonlee 5 лет назад

Great technical video. Love your stuff keep it up!

@jameslaine2472 5 лет назад

I really like how thorough you are

@superkoksu487 4 года назад

Every german be like: "As an engineer myself..."

@poweredbysalt4158 4 года назад

little known fact: in Germany you get your engineering degree when you are born

@Mikepet 4 года назад

@@poweredbysalt4158 As a German myself i can confirm that.

@miquelmarti6537 4 года назад

having lived in Germany for a while I can confirm this is actually true. Also true that they have the best engineers. It fits them :)

@pr0xZen 3 года назад

And, an engineer in Germany (Europe in general) has at least a 3y bachelor engineer degree. Not just "I work with something technical that involves problem solving" :)

@superkoksu487 3 года назад

@@videogamechannels360 ok just for you : Every asian by like : "As a Doctor myself..."

@constantinosschinas4503 4 года назад

thanks for this. cooling vs adhesion was my first thought the first time i saw an fdm printing.

@sypernova6969 5 лет назад

awesome video! I've actualy been looking for just this all week. thanks!!!

@dextrian 5 лет назад

Thanks for been very technical precise with your videos.

@linecraftman3907 5 лет назад

Thank you for your research and effort making this video!

@eduardofernandez5217 5 лет назад

Love your videos and dedication, you are my 3D printing data reference encyclopedia 👍🏻

@GianfrancoAntonioli 5 лет назад

I've never used a cooling fan, and i always print in PLA, my prints are good, but now i need to see how i can improve them

@SliceEngineering 5 лет назад

Great video. Thank you for educating the 3D printing community.

@jackytigra 5 лет назад

Very informative video and a great way to show one of the many ways to use 3D scanning in quality control. If you use the tool deviation-label you can mark many locations on the STL file and see the exact deviation on that location. That is the tool I used in my video about my warped bed plate, for my CR10.. If you have any questions about other tools in the software or about the possibilities with the Core scanner feel free to contact me! Thank you for making great content, I’m happy to see that you have some sponsors to support the time you put in these videos 👍🏻

@musikmaker19 4 года назад

Always quality work Stefan, great stuff and very helpful.

@ppaukstelis 5 лет назад

Great video, Stefan! Does the scanning software give you a volumetric difference between scan and reference?

@0ADVISOR0 4 года назад

At 9:45 you can start seeing the collet slipping and shortlz afterwards the test bone breaking, maybe this sudden 'slip & grab' might introduce unnecessary load and cause premature fail of the test part?

@alextirendi5412 5 лет назад

Best 3D printing channel so far

@Jimmy2Horses 4 года назад

I literally just posted this question to one of the FB groups I'm in regarding printing of an airboat hull for RC. My posit was that lower parts cooling speeds would enhance layer adhesion and in-turn assist with watertightness. Thank you for this video.

@davidarango2207 5 лет назад

If strength is a primarily concern, how could Multi Material (dual extruder or Prusa Multi Material) using soluble supports could allow hight detail no-cooling printing but still retain maximum layer adhesion?

@shenqiangshou 5 лет назад

Love the detailed investigations! TY!

@ThreenaddiesRexMegistus 5 лет назад

I’m quite new at this but have already figured this out. I mostly print ABS because it’s easy to get a nice finish and further refine it. But I’ve got some excellent PLA prints out with much higher temperatures than usually recommended and practically no cooling. Empirically, these are substantially stronger than cooled versions and look much better too. Good information here! I like your methodical approach.

@elvinhaak 5 лет назад

Nice! Can you do a strength-comparison for these PETG-prints with the (stock) Prusa and the (stock) Artillery-fan ? I notice that even with the same gcodes I get pretty big differences in adhesion sometimes between my A8's and the Artillery. Both around 40% cooling sofar to be able to have good overhangs but the A8's seem to be making it stronger somehow but less accurate.

@GordonGEICO 5 лет назад

Your no fan results are not really what I've seen in similar tests unless I'm printing way too hot. I'd like to see more options in slicers for turning off (or down) cooling only for infill and/or inner perimeters. Mostly, though, I use Colorfabb nGen with little-to-no cooling fan at 240c and get really good results.

@quitusmaximus4664 2 года назад

Great video and as a fellow Engineer I appreciate the testing approach and data layout.

@samuelrippe100 2 года назад

Thanks for the inf! I just saw this at the end of a 6+ day multiple print project that needs to be extremely strong.

@avejst 5 лет назад

Fantastic review I go newer over 30% cooling with PETG, at my Tron cooling on my Ender 3. Thanks for sharing 👍😀

@the_frogy4756 5 лет назад

Hello, It's great video!!! Can you test PLA from anycubic for example, in my experience it is very strong. Or maybe transparent filaments will be stronger than colored?

@andrewsc7304 4 года назад

Thank you for such comprehensive testing Stefan! I found it very useful. I kept wondering about your suggestion to print slower in order to let the PLA cool naturally. Do you think that the part being cooled naturally adheres better than low fan setting cooling? It still cools, doesn't it? Cools more evenly perhaps (inside and out)?

@paulrichmond6903 5 лет назад

Very well done!

@Chris-pd4gz 2 года назад

Hey Stefan, Deine Videos sind echt der Hammer! Konnte dadurch meine Produkte wirklich um einiges optimieren. Vielen Dank!

@gregsmith8617 5 лет назад

A very excellent and informative video, thank you for your efforts!

@thenextlayer Год назад

Phenomenal video as usual. I’ve probably watched it a dozen times.

@ayanchoudhury7166 5 лет назад

Hi can you do an impact testing a 3D printed filaments and then scan it with your 3d scanner to see an indentation/ damage caused and plot it. Thank you Regards

@BenEBrady 5 лет назад

Thanks for all of your great content Stefan. I really appreciate all of your hard work and I'm always anxious to watch your videos when you post them. I do have a question for you... I have a CR10S printer and I've only recently acquired an E3D Titan Aero direct drive to convert to an all metal hot end. I know you put an Aero on your CR10. There seems to be actually very little choice in terms of the mounts for the Titan Aero for the Creality printers that accommodate a part cooling fan, and in light of your findings in this video, one that will provide adequate all around cooling of the parts. How have you solved the mounting problems?

@chrisgulotta 5 лет назад

Stefan, Could you do a video/test on which fan shroud is best and @ what CFM? For printing PLA and PETG

@JohnSmith-rn3vl 4 года назад

These videos are ridiculously useful.

@kazakh2k 5 лет назад

Hi Stefan, i found your test interesant because i have this question with my 3d printer settings to, but have no test equiptment like you. Thanks for your test. In the test you found out the less cooling creates a negative effects on the border and overhanging. If you want, kann you try a test with configuration of the slicer. My idea is, to setting on border and bridges a normal or little higher fan speed and the infill with zero fan speed. To make it nicer from outside and stronger in the infilling. By this idea is better if you print your test not multible (like tree) at one time, so they have time to cooling when the nozel changes betwen 1, 2 and 3 on prints, an i thing it is the result of the ship like worther then the test parts there createt 3 at one printig operation (but i think its not realy change the result).

@tedro7870 4 года назад

Definitely how speed influences the strength. From 10mm/s to the max. Visually I find just a little difference between 30 and 75, so I'm really interested in strength.

@Gengh13 5 лет назад

Could you repeat this test after annealing the PLA parts to see if annealing reduces this effect?

@jamessever8936 4 месяца назад

Can you print the outer perimeter with some cooling and then the internal stuff without it?

@3dtwerking324 5 лет назад

Good tests! This shines some light on a set of tests that would be useful to see about layer adhesion with print speed and temperature. Of course fan speed would play a role. Lower print speeds/higher temps I would think allow for more heat transfer from the nozzle to the layers below increasing adhesion or decreasing.

@macwhite448 5 лет назад

use the scanner to check the linearity of your tension test rig and then see about accounting for its misalignment or physically adjusting it

@Crypt1cmyst1c 3 года назад

i'd love to see how the strength differences between the different part cooling settings is affected after heat tempering the parts. I wonder if the extra part cooling leaves a more permanent stress point in the material that tempering won't remove, or if tempering really "re-flows" the parts sufficiently

@suivzmoi 4 года назад

damn...excellent use of Gom equipment and software to make the thesis. amazing work.

@AverageJoe8686 5 лет назад

Doesn't the heatbed change the temp of the part cooling air? I put a couple pieces of paper towel over the areas of the bed I'm not using and tape them down. The bed temp doesn't change as much and I use less electricity, along with cooler air above the bed itself.

@cjuice9039 2 года назад

Somebody gave me a printer and the part cooling fan won't turn on. I dont know if it is broken or if it needs to be turned on. Any advice?

@THX..1138 3 года назад

Is there a way to turn off cooling for just infill? I would think when printing parts at 100% infill you could make a stronger part if you ran cooling only for the outer layers, then no cooling on infill.

@coneillgroup6564 4 года назад

Thats is the best audible commercial I seen. I might actually check it out this time.

@CNCKitchen 4 года назад

Do it! Great book.

@marella8366 3 года назад

Do you also have the print settings for the tensile strength prints? I want to test layer adhesion of recycled PET through this method(tensilestrength. I hope you can help me!

@eelcohoogendoorn8044 4 года назад

Thanks for doing these in-depth investigations! One piece of often information I often struggle to find is quantitive information about the warping properties of filaments. Given that I most often print molds for casting precise technical parts, warp is about the only material property I really care about; and not just if its low enough to stick to the bed; but if I can count on my holes having the right spacing, and if rods will turn into bananas or not. There are some filaments out there like ABS-X or some PLA variants that claim to be zero-warp. Also, some say that a heated chamber helps for PLA just like it does for ABS. But an actual in depth investigation of the matter, is something I have been unable to find. Perhaps you will find it interesting to do something along those lines in the future.

@mallias2683 4 года назад

I use Das filament petg and I am pretty satisfied. I can report that I have found small variations between types of spools. For me the transparent was the best in printing quality, layer adhesion and overall strenght. I always cool 100% when printing and used the recommended 230 and 75 degrees for temps. Thank you for your efforts and your videos. It really helps everybody that deals with a 3d printer.

@maciekm7953 5 лет назад

As always awesome test 👍

@luke213gmail 5 лет назад

I don't know exactly how to test it correctly, but I'd like to know how much of this strength is caused by the previous layer being cooler vs the hot end and current extrusion being hotter. My own theory of part cooling as someone who uses some filaments that are a PITA to run. I tend to run a fan at a level where I get reasonable quality but I also run hotter, sometimes much hotter than recommended temps. The theory in my head is you're primarily dealing with the temp of the current layer to determine layer bond, having the higher fan cools the current layer faster, but the filament extruding is hotter at the start giving better layer adhesion. So somewhat what you are testing here but different. As an example lets say your 0% fan PLA extruding at say 190C(just as an example), I do wonder if you'd get the same type of results from say %30 cooling fan and extruding around 220-230C? Hope that makes sense, but that could create some interesting results and you might find more strength using hotter extrusion temps with more fan to offset that. My results without scientific tests seems to indicate that, but I'd love to see some good tests on it. Ideally you'd use a FLIR or something to monitor what the effect of the part cooling fan is on the model and current layer being extruded to be able to gather the data on what the material is actually doing and then compare the results. Thanks for the great videos!

@Gengh13 5 лет назад

Perhaps increasing minimum layer times to really large values with low/no cooling fan.

@luke213gmail 5 лет назад

@@Gengh13 that's probably a valid way to test the theory. Might have to do that when I've got some time or a second/third printer;) Mine is pretty much running 24/7 in the shop at the moment marking parts and tooling. But I do plan to expand that side of my operation shortly. But if someone is interested also post/video the results ;)

@wolvenedge6214 4 года назад

Would it be possible to use the higher fan speed for the outer wall, but low/no fan speed for the infill to get the best of both worlds?

@StevenBlackco 4 года назад

I have just ordered the CR-10 V3 and it comes with a single cooling fan. What recommendations do you have for upgrading my printer so I can have fan control while maintaining proper cooling of the extruder?

@iraborton3941 3 года назад

I think a lot of it depends on the mass of what you're printing. For example, we don't use any cooling fan to print thin wall models such as an airplane wing, there is little mass there to retain the heat, it cools fine on it's own.

@TheAndyroo770 4 года назад

Is there a Cura parameter that allows you to modify fan speed based on overhang angle so you can print majority at 30% fan speed but boost to 90-100% for overhangs?

@Simofly 3 года назад

Amazing video ! Now that you mention cr10/ender3 cooling problems, I have a cr10S , what do you recommend for extruder zone cooling ? Change the whole extruder system to a titan /volcano or a new self printed cooling duct system should be enough ?

@danbecker5238 4 года назад

how are you able to vary the fan speed within the same layer during a single print?! Which software? can I do this in cura?

@MagnusLootCrate 4 года назад

My question is if this would help strengthen the supports on the print? I have a problem with one that keeps breaking off after a little bit of weight is added.

@DIYTinkerer 3 года назад

Thanks really interesting, so what we need is Cura to make an update that varies the fan speed based on overhang angle ( no overhang = no fan) to get stronger prints whilst keeping the quality high. That would give a good compromise of strength and quality.

@carlosarthurpetry3674 5 лет назад

What if you increase printing temperature along with the cooling?

@jnuxca 5 лет назад

i was considering buying a spool of das filament petg for my first petg spool.... not so much now, that layer adhesion was fucked up, any idea why?

@cosmo9882 5 лет назад

Hi, you could use packing to adjust for any offset in the jaws. Please would you consider some temp and cooling tests with TPU 👍

@edercarneiro 3 года назад

I wonder, what if we bake them after printing ? What if we put then on a oven with a temperature close to the melt ppoint and let them being there for a while ? Would this make them harder ?

@simonescaini 2 года назад

hi Stefan thanks for the great video.... i was wondering if the influence of part cooling is as severe in a closed chamber with ambient temp around 50° C

@antalz 5 лет назад

You're definitely right about the Ender3/CR-10 heatbreak fan. I upgraded a CR-10 mini to an E3D v6 and when I printed a benchy when I hadn't printed the cooling fan mounting bracket yet, it was the most horrible result I ever had. I'm also thinking this may be related to the watertightness of 3D prints. I used to get some good results with small boxes, but a large-ish boat I just printed is leaking. I'm going to try cranking the temperature up and disabling the cooling fan. It will still be cooled a little bit due to creality's design. I really also want to get my own universal testing machine running. So much to test, like creep and fatigue life. My machine is based on a raspberry pi though so I still have some programming to do.

@tkanal1 Месяц назад

Printing three towers when alternating layers between all towers without cooling actually still provides some cooling because until the next layer is printed on the same tower, it takes some time so it cools a bit...you should print one tower at a time to say there was no cooling...