@@ReviveStronger He was an IFBB pro. There’s 2 videos I’d recommend checking out. “Jason Huh quick leg workout” @1:00 “Jason Huh trolls the naysayers” @3:00 Would be interested in knowing your thoughts if you do!
@@MrAxileas Someone who is ahead of their time was not 'lucky' (you jealous hater); they were brilliant. Someone can know something through their own experience and contemplation before it is "proven". Follower. Sheeple.
@@JohnSmith-ks5xw Yeah i get what you are saying. But anecdotal evidence is the lowest form of evidence. There might be hundreds of people who can claim they had amazing results doing only shorten partials. So yeah my first point still stands.
I've switched over to 100% lengthened partial training. I agree that the SFR feels much better: more stimulus, less fatigue. I think I'm doing a more truncated ROM than you are. I'm doing more like the first third of most movements. I've tried to find the most difficult place to stop early in the ROM, and then do a brief pause at that point. With most movements it is 1. fast to explosive concentric, 2. brief pause at the tough stopping point, 3. really slow and controlled eccentric, 4. brief to long pause in the stretch. I do think it would be interesting to experiment with the pulse idea that you mentioned; doing the first 10% of ROM. I hypothesize that with enough explosiveness and pausing, this might work even better than using the 1/3 to 2/3 ROM. I may experiment with it at some point down the road. Psychologically, I find lengthened partials so much less fatiguing. I can't rule out the novelty aspect as a factor, but I get such a better stimulus doing lengthened partials. With full ROM, I don't get nearly as much burning in my target muscles, and most movements feel like so much more of a grind doing full ROM. Full ROM leaves me feeling ground down and under stimulated. LPs leave me feeling super stimulated in the target areas, yet still full of systemic energy.
Been following your journey with the partials. Especially with the rows. Also really liked your podcast with Milo Wolf. Would you be willing in future to make a video or even a series off what movements to do for different muscles with partials? Im definetely going to start experimenting with them myself! Great content as always, Steve!
@@ReviveStronger If possible, a example(s) for every muscle how to do them and when/where to implement them on a program. Maybe you could talk a little bit about their pros and cons further more from the perspective of science and anecdotal evidence 😊
As a person with lagging muscle group arms (the only one) for years, recently started the LP,its exciting so far and see more veins for a start than normally have before-after workout. Hope to see future arm growth as my other groups exploded earlier in the days. Always've been full rom fan since.
Definitely feel some exercises are geared quite well for LPs like leg extensions. Leg Press and preacher curl LPs are another favorite of mine. Sooo much fun.
I’ve been doing LPs since watching your video with Milo. Really love doing them, feels like such an exciting break through in muscle science. I does feel as if I’ve been exercising in reverse for all these years though, I was always chasing the contraction. Defo worth a try if you’ve not tried it.
These are starting to blow up as the new buzz word lightly. I honestly was playing around with the idea of doing it just like you are full rom into partials
I think this is exciting but I feel like there is no reason you can’t do both. It’s not like if you go full rom you won’t gain muscle at all… I gained 2lb this year sooo partials contributed to 0.2 lb
I feel like there are 2 different thing in the discussion which can and do overlap but are not the same. 1) Lenghtened Partials and 2) Constant tension. Constant tension is just doing some exercises without the end of motion, where your muscles can rest. ie elbow lockouts on pushing movements. I would absolutely love to see you do a series of videos on how you do some of the LPs on different exercises.
Sick Kiloua shirt! I remember dropping a comment a while back about which anime you watch. I just finished watching Baki and I highly reccomend it for any lifter. I feel like it's the most anabolic content in existence. Highly reccomend starting with the 2001 version, it's just as good as the Netflix continuation of the story
I wonder if the study's considered the participant's previous rom. If there's a difference in response from a person that's used full rom vs a person that already trains with a partial rom and is opening new ground and getting a response from the novelty. I see the sfr being useful. Bringing up a weaker part of the motion to allow for better full rom technique seems to make a bit of sense. Either way it goes it's fun to ponder and test.
In the NSCA's April 2023 issue of the Strength and Conditioning Journal, there is an interesting paper on this. There are more experiments than you think on this. They go through the evidence muscle by muscle. There is a study on the lats, actually. "Muscle Hypertrophy Response to Range of Motion in Strength Training: A Novel Approach to Understanding th Findings" Check it out. Always love the podcast, btw 💪
I'm glad people are talking about this now. I've always done it, but for flexibility, so I never saw the point in coming all the way up from a romanian deadlift, for example. And I used to get really tight pecs, so I'd grab some light dumbells and just get into the lower position of a dumbell flye, and just try to relax and get the muscle to stop freaking out about being in that position. Then I read a bunch of shit about loaded stretching, and how strengthening the extreme end of the range of motion is the best way to improve flexibility, so I figured why not just do very low ROM reps, right at the bottom, and focus on trying to go a little deeper each rep. I can't comment too much about hypertrophy, cus I couldn't give a fuck about it. But it makes everything better. I'm currently building a very high bench to do weighted hip flexor stretches from, and can't wait to try it, cus it's amazing how much more athletic you feel when you can stop muscles spazzing out to protect themselves from going into territory where they feel unpracticed. I also think it's a game-changer for injury prevention. If something is going to pop, it's going to happen in the weakest position. I've been playing around with partial pullovers, and even...I don't even know what to call it, but I'd describe it as a partial reverse face-pull...but pushing...and with dumbbells. And not the bottom third of the motion, just from the deepest stretch possible, up to where the stretch is relieved. My shoulders don't crunch anymore.They were messed up from a lot of swimming. And no amount of face-pulls is going to stop your pecs overpowering your rotator cuff. You just gotta get the pecs to chill. I had NTOS, pec minor syndrome AND bicep tendonitis, all of which are improving rapidly from doing extreme end-range partials
Literally last night did long psrtials on biceps eith resistance bands, just to test it, very slow tempo and quite a lot of reps. I have to say i can definitely feel the soreness in the biceps, i think I'll alternate between full rom and long partials on different days i feel your certainly onto something here, well done 👍
Lenghtened partials on SLDL are a great way to get more volume in at the bottom position of the movement, emphasizing the stretch. Lots of stimuli with a lot less fatigue.
I very rarely have tried "new" techniques in the last 5 or so years, but I decided to give LP's a go a couple months back. I train in my garage with free weights, and figured it'd be a fun way to mix things up. I have to say, I don't want to come across as someone that just jumps on a new fad and claims it's the best thing ever, but I have really noticed a positive effect training this way specifically in my arms, chest, and quads. Quads and chest especially. I think one of the reasons it's worked so well for me is that it's forced me to use a slightly lighter weight than what I'm used to in order to be able to do a full set of LP's safely, this leads to me having better control and better MMC. Obviously you could say you'd get the same effect lowering the load and using full ROM, but I'm also prone to resting a lot at times at the top of a movement, and I often have issues really "connecting" with my chest during bench. That's all changed now that I focus on LP. I end sessions with incredible pumps almost every time now, and even got some comments this Thanksgiving mentioning that I look bigger. I've been plataued on squats for a few months now and honestly haven't had too much of a drive to really push past it because the weight I'm working with is heavy and I start getting hip discomfort once I start touching 275+ for reps, so I've basically put quads on the backburner doing mostly maintenance work at this point. Once I incorporated LP's for squats, I'm noticing better pumps in the quads (which obviously), but also feel stronger now. Did a set of 3 with 290 yesterday and the bar felt clean and moved well, better than it ever has at that weight. So now I'm wondering, was it the LP's or something else? Not sure. All I know is that I'm currently loving training using exclusively LP's. Less systemic fatigue, faster sessions, and better pumps. What's not to love?
Lengthened partials are real interesting. It not only seems backed by science, but also feels like it is working the muscle very hard and keeping constant tension on the muscle for entire sets. I still plan to do full ROM because I like the flexibility it maintains without the need to have a stretching routine. I use full ROM almost as weighted stretching to maintain flexibility.
@@ReviveStronger I would think you wouldn't end up walking in the lengthened position of the squat because the muscles to fully extend shortened as that would look real strange. If I see you walking bent over because you can't fully extend your hips, I'll definitely be avoiding partials. Haha.
@@azulsimmons1040 I don't really understand where you're coming from tbh! If I can fully stretch out a muscle I don't lose flexibility at shorter lengths, like rubber band you know?
@@ReviveStronger The key is to turn it into a straight arm fly motion with the humerus almost parallel to the floor, all stabilized by the flexing shoulders. Ironically similar to the hypothetical stiff arm curl in the Brignole and Mike debate, as a comparison between sldl and leg curls. The straight arm curl is also more stimulative than the flexing.
love doing them um lying lc, leg ext, hacks, belt squat, side laterals with cables (behind the back), and jm presses, oh and on vertical hip presses, these that have a flexible platform
Id be interested in a followup after some months/ Mesos with lp focus. Then you can compare progression between merhods with a broader context outside of new stimulus resulting in adaptation. Ive been trying it on only a handful but the progression looks quite similar. Calves definitely benefitted the most
I've been rolling with them quite comprehensively for a good 8 months now, only recently however all calf and back work with LPs. I'd expect to see the most from back, delts and calves for me as that's where it's been most dramatic - time will tell!
@@ReviveStronger Well Burns your muscle Faster and you can do more Reps, by all i prever Full RoM. I would do Lenghten not with Compunds. I dont know if you miss hitting the assisting muscles when you not go full Rom. in lot of excercises not all Muscles are fully activated over the full curve of Motion. There should be more studies. And when you want to increase strength, Full Rom is still better
I cant recall who, by there is a powerlifter who swears by 1.5 squats as a great builder for his squat. With all the recent hype around lengthened partials, it seems he was onto something.
Hi Steve. I’m going to take some convincing so it’s great you’re experimenting for me😂. What I am currently doing however is full RoM but with ultra slow eccentric speed in the lengthened part of the movement. Jeff Alberts style I guess. Then a pause in the fully stretched position . Then reasonably explosive out of the bottom stretched position to maximise the intensity during the stretched portion. But full RoM. I feel like with many movements the fully contracted part of the movement still has benefits even if only by working different muscles to the lengthened position or increasing the total time under tension and fatigue thereby meaning more efficiency. So with pull ups or rows for example, yes the lengthened part might be the key part for lats but the contracted part might work the mid back or rear delts better meaning a more efficient workout overall. These are after all compound movements are they not? For isolation movements like bicep curls etc I can see far more merit in lengthened partials as it’s not like other muscles will get worked on the fully contracted position. It’s all very interesting though so we’ll see where it all lands no doubt. Thanks for sharing your experience. Be keen to hear of you actually notice any improvement in growth in due course. I’m really feeling longer I’m getting a lot out of the ultra slow eccentric stuff Jeff Alberts style and getting much lower reps from the same weight which is fantastic for things like dumbbell press where heavy weights can be hard to set up.
That's fair, full ROM is still very beneficial and I still use it for many things and your approach is how I still approach all my lifts. However, I will say your arguments aren't particularly strong in my eyes and you're going out on a limb to maintain your full ROM bias ;), but that's ok. For example you mention muscles working more at shorter contracted positions, but they're longer and working at the starting ROM, like the rear delts get smashed on all partial pulling. And I am with you stimulus > load! Thanks as always for tuning in and your comments!
Thanks for the reply Steve. So in your opinion do all muscles worked in a full RoM pull up (for example) get worked “better” in the bottom half of a pull up than the upper half (such that there is no hypertrophy downside to any muscles worked in a pull up by not doing the full RoM)?
@@ReviveStrongersee also this Steve ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-BVxr1V9cGP4.htmlsi=xeX2G_BpFjT74H8V. Dr Mike doing a better job than me for explaining why there may still be merits doing full RoM
So I mentioned in a previous video about leg press partials sucking lol. I think there's some sort of anesthetic effect after the first tough set where the quad burn is intense. The following sets are much less painful despite using the same RIR. I wonder if that is a mechanism Milo hasn't considered as being a reason lengthened partials are most effective. Literally numbing the pain signal in order to get more effective reps at the most effective muscle length range.
@@ReviveStronger I'm not sure what it is exactly. I notice the same thing for baysian seated curls the first set I wanna cry it burns so much then subsequent sets I approach the same RIR without nearly as much burn. Less metabolites? Numbing of the nerve endings? Not sure. But it's a cool new way to train. I was super skeptical team unironic full ROM but I'm fully into this type of training now for everything. My lats have never gotten such perturbation. I'm less drained after training. SFR is nice with partials.
Great vid, just showed up in recommended lol Aren't lengthened partials higher SFR than full ROM though, because you're inevitably going to be using more weight?
When Schoenfeld was last on your pod, didn’t he sorta refute this as the new standard just yet? Particularly since the the studies have only proven an advantage in the distal end with no evidence so far as to the impact in proximal end? I’m all for experimenting - and have just started LP for calf raises myself. It just seems like some folks are maybe getting carried away presenting this as the second coming.
I've been incorporating LPs for about 2 years now as form of beyong failure training (so I do them after I can't get another good rep). My favorites are on leg extensions, cable lateral raises and reverse pec-dec flies
@@ew-zd1th I think so, my quads are my strong point and I do believe taking sets beyond "failure" is important for natties. it's hard to track these kind of reps but I don't care I would rather train hard than just worry about tracking and "optimal training"
Interesting that you chose dumbbell lateral raises for this given the minimal amount of load in the stretched position. Wouldn't cable lateral raises be a much better choice for lengthened partial training?
I was training my delts 5xPW which meant one day back to back, I have one less lengthened biased movement which is this one as it's the day prior to a more biased movement. However, by being inclined, letting my arms come behind and stopping at shoulder height, plenty of tension at longer muscle lengths.
I want to see a lengthened partial study that measures regional hypertrophy. I think you might see differences in regional hypertrophy with lengthened partial vs. Full range of motion
@ReviveStronger now that you mention it. I remember that in one study only. I think it should be done more. I think the more its researched, the more you will see that there will be a difference in regional hypertrophy.
Lengthened partials have been fantastic for my back because it removes my broken shoulder as a limiting factor and gets me closer to failure shout out to my coach ! #milowolf
@@ew-zd1th I do see but I would caveat that o was training sub optimally before so much of my training has changed. I can say I see change and that I training closer to failure so even if it’s not directly attributed to partials it indirectly is working better for me then full rom
I’ve been loving LPs I been rotating my meso with FullROM and LPs For lat raises I just get a Dumbbell and lean against the wall till my side delts get a stretch and lift from there. I usually hold for a second or two at the top of my partials and when I can’t hold any more that’s when I figured I hit my failure point. Especially for squats I’ll just use heavy dumbbells at my sides cause if I’m going to RIR 2 or 0 I can just drop the Dumbbells and not have to worry about trying to rerack. I just feel it better holding at the top of the partials for a few seconds. You can just feel a little more burn and yes the SFR is great.
Lengthened partials are a good way to finish a full rom sets too maybe at the end of a meso as a high intensity technique. It really helped blow up my calves a couple yrs back
Is there any risk of injury if you've been training lengthened partials for a while and switch back to full ROM. Since you may be weaker in the position you haven't been training. Thats the only mild concern i can think of
i am not sure if partials are reasonable with excercises like legextensions and db lateral raises. because on these excercises you never go to full muscle lenght unlike stiff leg deadlifts, incline curls or chest flys. with the db lateral raises you put the muscle basrely under load i could see it more with a machine or cables.
Leg extensions are soooo much more enjoyable with lengthened partials instead of always going to the top end of the range that is disproportionately way harder than the lower part of the range. It feels a lot easier to be consistent and progress.
@@ReviveStronger Leg extensions used for LPs are surely similar to using preachers curls for LPs. Would it not be much more effective to use sissy squats as your LPs the same way as you would use incline DB curls as it is a full stretch position
I've started incorporating this technique in current meso but mostly for reps beyond 0 RIR and for smaller muscles. Results so far is higher SFR. Maybe it's just perception but will need a few blocks to be certain. On the Smith Machine squats, isn't 2/3 a better stopping point than 1/2? There is some tension in the second third from my experience.
@utubeskreename9516 RIR = Reps In Reserve, which simply means how many reps left in the tank for a given set before technical failure is reached. SFR = Stimulus to Fatigue Ratio, which is a term that I believe was coined by Dr. Mike Israetel. If you search "SFR Israetel," you will find plenty of thorough explanations of this acronym. The short definition is that each exercise has a stimulus (gain) and fatigue (cost) component to it. Therefore, the higher the ratio, the better, and vice-versa.
look up or interview Jason gallant (natural gallant bodybuilding on youtube) he is a veteran natural bodybuilder that build his body with partials on all muscle groups, maybe you find his experience interesting
Can you give some more details on how you have incorporated LPs into your routines? I caught the part where you use them as their own sets, not in addition to ROM sets. So do you completely cut out ROM when incorporating LPs? Do you swap between ROM and LPs from one workout to the next, etc.?
@@freddie_b13 dunno if was ment for me or Steve but I took a break from dumbbells and have been doing side partials as my main exercise for that muscle
I dont know if you know Natural Gallant, but all his reps look like partials, yet he has a great physique for a natural. Genetics and simply the best way for him to train, or could he get even better results with a larger ROM?
A lot of bodybuilders did them that way. branch Warren for example was made fun of for his small Rom but if you watch a lot of it is lengthened/mid range at most
Hard to judge due to not having precise measurements, but I am progressing on the partial lifts very well - but this could be somewhat shorter term novelty. - Steve
It seems to me it would cause inconsistency with the range of motion. With back I don’t think you need to over do it with momentum I usually do it all strict and when I can’t do it I start to ad slight momentum for 3 4 reps
I like you so I’m not being negative towards you. This subject as if it is some new revelation is BS though. A T-bar row using 45 pound plates is a lengthened partial, the cable row to the knee is a Dante Row, the Rack Chin with holds and push always in the stretch is a lengthened partial exercise. A squat is a lengthened partial. It is not about ROM! It is about ROT - you do not lengthen a muscle if there is no tension on the muscle. Holding calf stretches is old school
It's new within research, many bodybuilders had speculative methods that they found worked but now we have solid data to support their hypothesis! Many bodybuilders also swore by the squeeze at short for the back, many they were wrong there you know?
the problem i have with this whole line of thought, is the muscle and excercise doesn't have the same strength/force profile, so comparing the different ranges is questionable.
You can still compare different ranges, but with that knowledge as well. For example squat patterns are already often hardest at the lengthened position, so they probably have less to gain from removing the short where it's already easiest.
are you making gains though? I tried it today, not convinced. Different vibe? sure, but I do not believe it will turn out to be what people hope. I think It might expose that people were quite inflexible and a little stretching helped. Like zma. It didnt boost testosterone, it just exposed that many were zinc deficient. You will be getting stretch gains. The end.
I love with the certainty you speak when we have multiple studies showing LP beat out full ROM & none showing the opposite. Also though to your point, many aren't exposing their back at long muscle lengths close to failure, so that's one area I really think people could miss out. - Steve
Lengthened partials is really nothing new. Take a look at inmates and particularly calisthenics guys from NY. They're range of motion has been lengthened partials or "shorties".
