My Honest Opinion of Mongols in AOE4... 

I don't think Mongols should ever get access to walls, I would instead give them back the ability to reinforce their towers in castle age and a tech in imperial that increases their pop capacity from 5 to 8 (similar to Rus towers), this way you can get better returns on all the dozens of towers you placed on the map throughout the game. It's a nomad civ with one of the most unique potential play-styles in the game, just giving them walls would be like throwing the towel and turning it into another basic "english/french" kind of civ.

Or alternatively you can have a castle and imp upgrade that increase garrison capacity of towers from 5 to 7 and from 7 to 10. This would make raiding them much more difficult and if you come with enpugh units to deal with all of the towers, then a wall wouldn't have helped anyway.

Mongol army core should be mangudai, not kheshigs they could get the siha bows in castle and the improved on imperial like kheshigs with step lancer. The ticket suggestion for khaganate palace is great, that with camel archers instead of mangudai. And a more smooth packing and unpacking, manny times buildings just get stuck and idle for nothing and it is really annoying.

A lot of people suggested it and I think it genious. They need some tech to be able to push through stone walls with their cav and infantry effectively. Instead of destroying their identity bring everyone else to their level when facing mongol.

They gave the option for Rus to have stone walls depending on the landmark you choose, maybe walls can be tied to the Imperial age up somehow?

Hi Beasty! I've only been playing the game for about 2 weeks now and Mongols are my main civ. I've had a lot of success playing as them and although they aren't really great for beginners, I do recommend them as a strong civ for learning the game and progressing. This is just my experience anyway, they are the only civ I've been able to play, learn and progress with. And my Khan has it been fun!

Maybe a mechanic in imperial the tower get's a Buff when the tower is connected to the TC. Something similiar to the movement buff or the cystern system for byz. Within an ability or an Upgrade...

I was asking this in twitch chat yesterday. Kinda hard to play them in team games without getting piled on because they know you're base is an easy clap

I still think it’s weird that one of the “best” strategies for Mongols is an infantry tower rush… it’s a cavalry civ. There probably were more cavalry units in their army (historically) that could replace the barracks in Dark Age and make it an actual cav civ. Also add HueHue Pow, it’s weird that they get it randomly and Byzantines van just produce them.

They should have a specialized wall for encircling the enemy like how they did IRL

Feudal and castle Mangudai are bad? Don't they kite spearmen and and slower armored units well still?

One thong thy could help in my opinion before giving them walls would be to upgrade the tower through gold and not stone, this would allow to be able to stay kind of defensive without having to wait for 2 hours to upgrade 3 towers..

Hi Beasty. I have been playing French and now Gold 2. I can win most of games vs gold ish players but whenever i go 2 tc i lose. What civ should i practice to play with 2 tc

Hey beasty can u make your opinion about Abbasid right now thank you

if this changes will come... i jurney is over... i have my "only one" civ.

They'll probably in a future variant dlc. Maybe something like kubilai more oriented defensiv style

Walls can totally negate mongols nomad style of packing and shifting their bases. But yes Mongols does need some kind of defense... maybe trench style blockage with time limit... I mean a wall like defense that fades away slowly with time.... could be fun

If you have a big trade going on with Mongols and you hit Imperial i always buy first thing the trade upgrade + 1000 stone and then my traders produce a lot of stone. From there on with Ovo landmark 4 you will have enough stone to make all the keeps with bombard emplacements. Who needs a wall?? They will be running around everywhere dieing without siege. But that's all in Nomad...

give them weaker stone wall (like 70% health) in imperial, and be able to use gold and wood to upgrade bombard tower not stone

I think there is other ways to buff mongols in imperial besides walls. While walls is certainly a good solution, I do think another alternative is to allow Cavalry, much like ayyubids to make Siege. Make it a castle age upgrade. That way even if the opponent walls, they won't stop you, only slow you down, and the mobility from the cavalry allows you to change to another flank if the opponent invest heavily into defending the first area where your trying to break through. Another issue in imperial age for mongols is the useless of the Khaganate palace. Mongols essentially only have 1 imperial age landmark to choose, so they limited in what kind of late game builds ans tempo you can use. Another thing I would like to see is to Buff Mangudai in defensive situations, mangudais make great "police" force to stop raiders, especially due to fire on the move and their damage is OK in imperial age, definitely good enough to stop small group of raiders. If they had added movement speed bonus under yam network allowing them to catch up with horsemen with ease, then stopping raids would become much easier. For balance reasons extra mangudai/cavalry speed under yam influence might be a research able tech uniquely to Khaganate palace. In that way, white stupa is age4 landmark to go to for bombard tower spam and more defensive playstyle. And khaganate palace for more offensive playstyle being able to make extra units and some unique upgrades for mongol units.

Yay, I love opinions!

I think they should have an upgrade called something like 'scourged earth' in imperial that increases the torch damage of all cavalry, so you can capitalize on advantage before the enemy is able to retaliate the trade

i would give them + 10pop space in imp so they can deal with the raids and attack

I suggest reduce the cost of tower at age4 with a cheap upgrade.

Perhaps you can make it where they can only build walls within a certain radius of their towers. And maybe only in imperial or something. Keeps the tower flavor and still restricts wall building somewhat.

Buff Mangudai please 💜

I would give Mongol unique siege technologies to help with this.

mongolian walls were so cool irl and they didn't make it to the game

how about they can build walls in imp?

This is an old video but I think it would be really cool if the mongols got certain technology research buffs or something as a result of razing buildings. Historically the mongols would use engineers from the nations they were attacking or cities they were sieging (Historically the Jin Dynasty in 1211 saw chinese engineers defecting to the mongols early on, stone masons and carpenters also defected and brought knowledge on how to defeat cities and make siege equipment) to learn to make new equipment they would apply there and elsewhere. It is a wild strength of these nomadic peoples historically and should be acknowledged in game. Getting a whole new technology to woodchopping for destorying a lumber camp is probably a bit excessive but some percent boost to the next woodcutting technology would be practical and lean into that aggressive playstyle.

Building-walling posibility?

The no wall thing is so cool. I hope never change. Maybe new upgrades to towers or bigger capacity for them put fhe vills inside.

Maybe Mangodai can have more base damage and take some damage off the upgrades, so their max power is unaffected but it helps that early weakness. Alternativley, maybe they could start with incindiary arrows to fill the raid niche more but unit damage is the same, using them to get raid bounty. Id rather use villagers for damage than mangodai right now lolol. Sucks that their signature unit sees no play. I would love to see Rus palisades for Mongols, not stone walls though. Maybe counter balance this by them not being able to build gates, or walls are only constructable within a radius of certain structures etc. They just kinda need a little something there so everythings not running around like a chicken with its head cut off chasing units nowadays, but walls are touchy with their balance I think. Edit: I saw the idea of trenches rather than walls, I like that idea too!

What if the towers had an age 4 upgrade that just spawns one or two token troops that stick close to the tower and attack nearby enemies that come close. Have those token troops spawn in once every 1 or 2 minutes. Don't allow the player to micro those token troops, they just hang out next to the tower and help defend it so an enemy needs to invest more than just one or two battering rams to smash up your base and trade network. If I understand correctly, the issue is that the mongols have 200 population to spend on both attacking and defending, while every other civ has 200 population to spend on attacking, with walls to defend. The way it is right now, the mongolians can't afford to. . . you know. . . raid farms and stuff. Mongol things. Alternatively, give the traders a ranged attack that can fire while they move so they're a bit more self-sufficient to compensate for not having walls.

make it so mongol infantry can siege stone walls

At the very least I expect newer units replacing trash on the RNG of khagnate for example horse archer and mangudai replaced by onna musha and maybe imperial samurai or something for khagnate

I feel like they don’t scale well nor do they rush well.

I love playing the Mongols

Hey beasty, thanks for the take. What would you think to maybe allowing Mongols to have a unique ability to set way points for their trade? They only get the ‘straight line’ value but could direct it to safer areas, making it less susceptible to raids and maybe avoiding the need for walls?

Mongols yam network needs a buff

Mongols with walls might be OP. at least they got the stone towers.

Sorry if it is a dumb question but won't giving them walls will make them to OP for trade and Wonder holds in FFA?

Mongols were my favorite civ for a long time, but as you say, you'll start to fall behind after Imperial Age at the latest. On FFA maps this is even worse, the towers are simply far too weak and upgrading them costs stone, which you only get very slowly in the later ages, especially if there is no trading option (and trading has already been annoyed several times). Mongols also only have keshaks which are subject to every knight. I only see very few Mangudais anymore, as they are no longer as good from age 3 onwards. Mongolians are a lot of fun at ages 1 and 2, but from age 3 this decreases significantly. I would appreciate it if you had some kind of wall (and if it is something unique like reaching a spear wall), you could also tie this to a landmark. The fact that the buildings use up unit spaces when packing up is also stupid and makes this function rather impractical later in the game - that should be changed, as is the fact that building up is blocked (sometimes even by your own units) and the kurultai only works when built up. A good unit for the late game would also be desirable, but the keshaks are definitely not. Ultimately I also think that there wouldn't be that many major changes needed, just a few small changes here and there (like with the moving buildings) that would also underline the Mongolian style.

4:25 mud wall 🙃

What if there is ability that can be researched in imperial that will allow mongol units to attack stone walls??

the devs hatred for towers and the stone economy relaly hit mongol hard, imagine mongol on release compared to now, bombard towers did not cost your entire soul, stone deposoits had more stone in the etc etc

give them petard-cav and nobody has walls - fair

Remove double unit production with stone, give some of their unique units some minor buffs to compensate and finally give them some cool unique upgrades that require stone. If you remove their double production mechanic, you can buff their units accordingly without throwing the balance out of the window. That hurts the mongols slightly in the first few minutes of the game, but buffs them in mid and late game. That also means they will have more stone for upgrades, and to that I think they should have access to some cool unique ones. Perhaps give them a system that makes them select a few upgrades out of many, like the Zhu Xi landmark does right now. Perhaps a choice between strong Mangudai or strong Keshiks. You could even give them a choice to allow wall construction, but at the cost of something else, be it an economy upgrade or an aggressive upgrade. To avoid mongols having too many unique upgrades, they could bundle all the raiding upgrades from the Ovoo together and make them tier based through the ages (Such as tier 1, 2 and 3 economic upgrades).

👏👏 Gamers All around the 🌎

To me it doesn't make sense that Mangudai cost so much gold and no wood... Maybe the cost should be like 80 food 20 wood 20 gold or something like that perhaps? They just don't do enough damage to be worth making. Edit: for some reason I increased their food cost lol

Mongol definitely should not have walls. What they should have is upgrades that reflects the historical mongol strength. Here is my suggestion Imperial villagers have the ability to ride pony and run away in event of raids and carryon harvesting sheep’s but at reduce level Trades should have the options to trade speed for the amount of gold carry. So at 50% reduction translate to increase speed which allows them to run away from raid Historically the mongols do not use walls, but when they enemy comes, they pack up their tents and strategically move deeper into mountains and desserts.

lack of walls means they cannot handle the death by a thousand cuts in the late game. However walls is so far against the flavor of Mongols in game that it will never happen. So how do you help them? Lean into the Flavor of Mongols with an age 4 only buff to Mangudai. This allows you to have a good lower micro Fast response force without making Mangudai OP in the early and mid game where Mongols are just fine.

nah, giving mongols walls takes away their unique playstyle and will also push them over the top. Mongol trade is way to efficient to not be somewhat open to raiding. Walls + yam network + towers everywhere will be an absolute hellhole

More units less villagers ratio then you normal do you’ll be fine

Wenn man den mongolen rush übersteht, hat der Mongole meisten danach verloren

I don't think Mongols should have walls because it takes away from the uniqueness of the civ but instead they can have some buff where the traders near towers gained like 4/6/8/10 armor maybe plus movement speed so that they'd be harder to kill I feel like this is a trade specific requirement (needing walls) and should have a trade specific fix

Maybe wooden walls in castle and stone in imperial? I dont play mongol but its a very based take imo from beasty

instead of giving mongol walls they should nerf stone walls for everyone else. stone walls are still absurd in aoe4

I vote for no walls but other buffs to compensate. Stronger towers…. Tower upgrades that done cost stone (seems silly to upgrade a wooden tower with stone lol. It should cost money and wood). While mongols are a “difficult” civ to play, one of the things I like most about them in the simplicity. Don’t have to build houses… don’t have to mine stone… don’t have to worry about building wall. One less thing I have to worry about 🤪

I don't think Mongols will ever get walls. A Mongol Variant might (though I wouldn't count on it), but Mongols were intentionally designed to not have walls. As it is, in 1v1 they're supposed to be killing the opponent quickly, and in team games they have allies who can wall for them.

no thanks horses to op in team games they should be like rus ones. stop to shot not run around killing everything

Agree with all, addionally I wrote some of these under another video 2-3 weeks ago: - Mongols are so underpowered. - No wall, you have to erect outpost everywhere for protection, but outposts are too weak, no defensive upgrade, and same cost with other civs, you need to add placements but you can't do it easily due to the stone bottleneck. - Mangudais are slower than +10 armored Gilded Knights, really, not to mention the charge speed of the knight... Japanese horse-archers are better than mangudais, loll, - Keshiks are too slow, cannot raid effectively because of its speed, spearmen can easiliy catch them, even the villagers easily run away without get any damage from the Keshik charge, - You cannot do trade properly, if you face the opponent who knows how to play, you have to deal with too many trade raids and micros, basically you cannot play the game anymore, - Units' line of sights are VERY VERY low, you are just moving blind, iit is as low as the minimum charge distance of the knights. Sometimes I can't charge the units because I can barely see them very close to me, lower than minimum charge distance of knights, - Okay, Mongols are hard to play, and its pretty fun, but in return, advantages are not enough - This game has serious balance problems, man-at-arms & samurais are so overpowered, cannot counter them effectively especially on imperial age, they literally dont die even with the crossbowmen, just fed up to see English & Japanese man-at-arms spam, - Archers cannot do anything to knights, its not realistic, - Attack move is so problematic, pressing A, and FALSELY click on a unit, its just behaving like right clicking on the unit, combat UX is really trash, you have to find empty ground in the 100 vs 100 fight to attack properly, - UX is garbage in general. You can't even close UI panels easily because each one has different close button locations, lol, And, just stopped to play this game, it is fun, nice game, but so unbalanced, everytime going crazy about balance issues & unrealistic things.

It's just that Mongols don't fit Beasty's play style. Beasty likes to wall off sides and then make big pushes with one chunk of the army while raiding. I'm surprised that Beasty is saying that for all new civs, he wishes they are unique, and now he expects the Mongols to receive walls. Beasty's weakness is losing map control. With Mongols, if you come to the situation where you're in Imperial Age, have no map control, and have failed to cause major damage to the enemy, you've failed to play Mongols at their strong point and have already lost the game, unless the opponent makes big mistakes. Imagine Mongols having walls with their omega trade. That would be totally broken. Maybe Mongols need strong Imperial Age cavalry, such as lancers, and Mangudai buffs, as you've said, but definitely not walls. If every civ has Joan of Arc, they would be great, but what's the point if they lose their uniqueness? One other thing Mongols must receive is the ability to unpack buildings in groups, allowing you to move all your pastures or production at once. Just select all, pack, choose another location, and unpack. All buildings will be placed automatically, finding available space. That way, you can move parts of your economy closer to the main army. Also, fix the darn bug where buildings fail to unpack. Not a hater, just a comment.

First

I have an idea, why not aoe 2 walls. When you put buildings next to each other units can not pass. This would be interesting. You have to move you’re buildings

only play mongol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mongol unit are very weak compared to other civs tbh i really want improvement for mangudai +piercing armor against heavy armored units

Love playing mongols and harassing people! Only way the game is fun for me anymore! A lot of people whine about it when I beat them. They should go play sim city instead.