That was supposed to be the plot of Ben Afflecks The Batman, where after he had regained hope and his no kill rule, deathstroke after learning his identity goes out and kills everyone he loves, which leads to Bruce going after him however this time he'll try not to fall back into the darkness
How can u love violence but hate killing? And why do u people always cling to the No Killing Rule? It's just a Corporate mandated trope from the fifties that applies to well over 80 percent of the Characters in comics? DC and MARVEL. Its just villain armor. And realistically, it doesn't make sense. A man with no powers, who fights psychopaths and serial killers in the most judicially corrupt city in the world.......without using lethal force? Not even on occasion? 🤨 Sorry, that's child logic
@@whynot1548 Ever seen an MMA fight? Those guys obviously love violence and use it for sport, but that doesn't mean they wanna kill the other guy. Some of them are even friends or train together but still fight each other. And Batman witnessed his parents murder. Last thing he wants to do is feel like he's one of those bad guys. And who cares about the corporate mandated thing? It's a part of the character now. And it keeps him interesting. If he was a killer, Batman movies would just be Charles Bronson's "Death Wish" with a cape and cowl.
I disagree, he doesn't really have any association with Batman. He used to be a Nightwing and Teen Titans villain, but now he's more of an anti-hero. He just doesn't really have anything in common with Batman like his other villains, and if you're looking for that sort of rival role, Bane would be a far more fitting choice. Yeah, we've seen him, but always in a vastly different form.
@@andyroobrick-a-brack9355 Banes a little too far fetched for the world created in the movie though. If we could just go with any villain without worrying about how it would fit in, I would definitely wanna see Clayface or Babydoll. But I was trying to go along with what would work. And the Bane in Dark Knight rises was ass. Cool voice though and the actor did a great job
I always find Batman to be at his most compelling when he's presented as a tragic romantic mythic hero. I think the animated series, the Arkham games and The Batman have all presented Batman like this. Batman's story ultimately is about the endurance of good and his no kill rule is the most useful story telling tool that writers have to show that the good in batman is enduring. I don't think its petty or whiny to comment on batman's no kill rule not being used correctly. Because its the whole point of the story
Yeah sure. 🤣 Cuz continuously sparing the same serial killer over and over, as the pile of innocent bodies climbs higher and higher is soo sooooo heroic. 🤨👎
@@whynot1548 Yeah... that's the point. Batman is a hero, but his code has flaws that he just can't see. That's, like, one of the BIGGEST sources of conflict in the entire franchise. We can see the flaws because, unlike Batman, we aren't delusional and stuck in the past.
Batman is a detective. He has killed. He has been funny with multiple colors in the 1960s. He is well trained. A child at heart. The best story that would make this make sense is to say that Bruce Wayne, a former WWI soldier, who has killed in the War to End All Wars, returns to Gotham after getting injured in the head. This shell-shocked syndrome makes him have 2-3 personalities: a Private investigator, a child who years for his parent and escapes at midnight to find his parents killer, and a soldier who murders as a business. Basically, give Batman/Bruce Wayne the PROPER Moonknight treatment.
@@andyroobrick-a-brack9355 But batman isn't delusional. All in all he realizes that it isn't his place to kill villains nor is he judge jury or executioner. Not to mention that batmans psyche is really broken. literally everytime when he broke his no kill rule he became a villain. Everyone keeps mentioning how batman has a no kill rule and how bad of a superhero he is for it. But they never say the same about heroes like superman, or spiderman for that matter.
@@lxrdkenji Yes he is. All of these superheroes with no kill rules are absolutely dillusional especially ones like batman who constantly break the law, brutalize, and spy on people but all of a sudden when killing is involved they act all innocent. Batman deserves special criticism because of the hypocrisy and outlandish excuses his writers make, and his brain dead fans just eat it up *cough* batman who laughs *cough* If it's not batmans place to kill villains maybe it's also not his place to enlist children to fight gangsters and terrorists or torture people or build mass surveillance devices or use force to stop crime at all...but he does it anyway. Why? Lazy writing, bad characterization, and Because it keeps his facade of a story going in perpetuity. Batman fanboys have to be some of the most childish and pre-programmed fanboys out there, absolutely no logic. If batman is taking it upon himself to go out there and fight madmen and homicidal freaks of nature maybe he shouldn't be so unstable that killing one person would magically turn him into a cartoonishly evil 2010 creepypasta caricature of himself. Aka the batman who sucks.
Must have spent a lot of time editing though. It is very time consuming when you are the one who is solely responsible for all of the production, editing and quality control of your channel.
Batman is a detective. He has killed. He has been funny with multiple colors in the 1960s. He is well trained. A child at heart. The best story that would make this make sense is to say that Bruce Wayne, a former WWI soldier, who has killed in the War to End All Wars, returns to Gotham after getting injured in the head. This shell-shocked syndrome makes him have 2-3 personalities: a Private investigator, a child who years for his parent and escapes at midnight to find his parents killer, and a soldier who murders as a business. Basically, give Batman/Bruce Wayne the PROPER Moonknight treatment.
I like how you describe "The Batman" as your Batman. There are enough iterations of the Dark Knight that literally each generation has their own version that speaks to them. Mine was Batman '89, which heavily influenced the Bruce Timm "Batman: The Animated Series". When I was still single digits, the thing that spoke to me most about Batman was the whimsical nature of it all. Gotham might be dark and gritty, but it still felt like a different, more fantastical reality. That even carries over to me today, where I enjoyed but did not vibe with more grounded Batman movies. "The Batman", however, does show Bruce in a position I've never actually seen him in before: as a beacon of hope. Right at the end of the movie after Gotham had been flooded, he didn't slink into the shadows to watch the spectacle unfold. He pulled out a flare and served the people of his city, sticking around until the job was done and everybody that he could save was safe. THIS is the true definition of a superhero, even one as broken and human as Bruce Wayne. I'd still love to see actual monsters in these movies, though. Killer Croc and Manbat would be AMAZING in a more grounded superhero style!
The failure of the live action films their afraid of doing robin and his supernatural villains only pulling from the year one long Halloween minus the supernatural super villains of that story killing joke minus setting up the bat family and dark knight returns
@@roylle6346 the batman is a master piece majority of the time he's in the costume and not civilian playboy bruce wayne which is really the costume batman is the actual person it's better than the dark knight which focuses on keeping him out the suit and makes him a killer batman returns he's a psychopath dark knight rises hes weak batman begins boring and treats scarecrow as a henchmen and bvs is egdelord trash that rushes through dc comics greatest hits batman forever and batman & robin is goofy toyetic trash
This felt so natural, like I was listening to a friend casually talk about his opinions. It's just refreshing to not go so deep into these films and just give honest words simply. I enjoyed the little jokes in there, too. 😂👍
“My Batman” is Batman The Animated Series’ Batman because of Kevin Conroy’s Bruce Wayne performance. There is a warmth when he is the positive father figure to Dick Grayson, a father figure i never had.
what I like best about the Nolan trilogy is it focuses on Bruce Wayne. Think about Iron Man/Tony Stark, Spider-Man/Peter Parker, or Superman/Clark Kent. The most interesting thing about those characters is their alter egos. It’s fine to see a bunch of action but that gets old fast and so when you actually build a character which makes stories interesting is when you know you’re doing it right
altough most movies that try this make it a movie about talking with a few minutes of action thats not a bad thing but most people like batman for batman and bruce wayne but not the talking parts still i agree with you
That's the problem: Bruce Wayne is the "alter-ego," he's the shallow mask that Batman has to put on in order to not look suspicious. The entire point of the character is that the identity known as Bruce Wayne is the empty, vapid shell.
The one thing I hate about "grounded in reality" is that characters like Clayface, Killer Croc and Mr Freeze will never be done the right way. They'll have to be vastly reinterpreted. Good video though! Made me think about things I hadn't noticed.
I mean to be fair the original clayface was just a guy in a mask. He based his persona off a movie character that he portrayed during his failed acting career, he was basically just a serial killer in cosplay (and I think the mask was made of wet clay for some reason, comics are weird) The 2nd clay face is the one we know and love
@@sdm47 I didn't actually know that! But yeah, we want to see the one true Clayface. Call me crazy but why not just have two Batman film series going on at the same time? One is more comic style tied to the DCEU and the other would be the Matt Reeves version. DC is already milking Batman to death so just go full speed ahead.
I think I would have to agree that The Batman is probably the best interpretation so far. However, my favorite Batman movie is still Batman Returns due to nostalgia.
My biggest problem with “The Batman” is I would have liked to see action scenes somewhat displaying the stealth and tactical strategist aspect of his character. Especially with an actor as thin as Pattinson. It just didn’t work seeing him walk into frame taking on thugs head on, especially straight into a hail of bullets.
@@reecegeorgens1755 Perhaps if the idea was for it to be a solo film you would possibly have seen that but Its clear the route they are taking is one of "character development" so stay tuned for the next one and even third one if they do that you will probably love those I predict. Im in agreement I like that side of batman however I loved the batman because it seemed like for the first time I would have a chance to see the strategic detective etc side and so I Have no problem with waiting for his character to develop, Ive always been a fan of character development anyways so Im not opposed to waiting a bit longer for the "ideal/complete version" still appreciated the film regardless.
If I could make my own interpretation of Batman, he wouldn't exist. That sounds stupid, but I think its fantastic. Batman, to me, is less a person and more a folkloric creature. People end up in the hospital, either unable to remember what happened or talking about being attacked by a shadow. The few times that he's glided across the city, people don't believe it actually happened, they think they were hallucinating or just saw a bat fly by their window. He's talked about in hushed whispers in a seedy bar filled with cigarette smoke. People talk about seeing a person standing on top of a building, only to disappear when they look away. He isn't a person, he's a myth.
That's exactly what I liked about 'Batman Begins': the scene at the docks, where he dispatches Falcone's men, Batman is seen indistinctly, only in flashes. Same for Tim Burton's 'Batman': at first, he's just an urban legend, which the police try to dimiss. Of course, that concept isn't easily translated to cinema.
@@davidm9799 that's my favorite scene in batman begins. I absolutely love batman stealth mode in the arkham games and I wish it was shown more in the live action films.
idunno i really want to see scarecrow in the next film commentating on how he uses fear as a weapon, defeating this symbol of fear becoming a symbol of protection and restating his development into hope the previous film created and protecting Gotham from this fear. ‘The batman’ was definitely my batman movie, the film you in vision when you’re playing the Arkham games or reading long Halloween it's just everything i wanted. hopefully we can see them build upon his character in the next film maybe even having a robin that actually works well, and interacts with batman as a father figure saving him from becoming what he is I don't know I'm dumb.
Perhaps there's a reason for that. When Adam West was reading the comic books in preparation for his role as Batman, he noted that the villains always seemed to be the more fascinating characters. His conclusion was that Batman, despite looking bizarre for a superhero, was at the end of the day a very traditional and uncomplicated hero. West's characterization of Batman was simple: he was brave, he was hard-working, he was righteous, he was intelligent, and he despised crime and injustice. That does sound pretty boring, and I personally prefer a more soul-searching and character-flawed Batman, but I've always thought of what I've described above to be the default characterization.
Despite how good a live action Batman movie is, for me personally and pretty sure for a lot of people, Kevin Conroy has had many opportunities to play the dark knight and hence gets the job done almost perfectly every time. Batman being a timeless character will be depicted in different versions for generations to come but I don't think Kevin Conroy and his work can ever be topped.
One of my biggest pet peeves with the Batman movies is that they really hate using CGI. I get that practical beats visual effects any day, but if you read the comics or watch the TV shows, meeting action scenes like those would require CGI, and I would be totally fine with that.
Batman is a detective. He has killed. He has been funny with multiple colors in the 1960s. He is well trained. A child at heart. The best story that would make this make sense is to say that Bruce Wayne, a former WWI soldier, who has killed in the War to End All Wars, returns to Gotham after getting injured in the head. This shell-shocked syndrome makes him have 2-3 personalities: a Private investigator, a child who years for his parent and escapes at midnight to find his parents killer, and a soldier who murders as a business. Basically, give Batman/Bruce Wayne the PROPER Moonknight treatment.
With you being born in 2000 it makes perfect sense how you view the Batman movies. I was four years old when Batman 1989 came out. Yes, watching them now you realize they are not really good movies but you got to understand there was really nothing else like it at the time. For many, it was our first exposure to Batman and it was such a huge phenomenon during that time. Batman was everywhere. The point I am making is when a person is born is definitely going to change how they view these movies.
Knowing what the Joker is and has done, and that he’ll just keep escaping from Arkham over and over and over again; Batman is responsible for every victim that Joker kills.
That's exactly why I have no problem with Batman killing his enemies in the movies. Even he knows that as long as he lets them live, more innocent people will die and Gotham city will fall into the hands of costumed freaks.
My constructive thought about zack snyders version of Batman. I always viewed his batman as a war veteran, a guy who’s given up on anything who’s lost hope after so many civilians dying because of him and after seeing good guys turn evil or die and we don’t really know by good guys maybe other heros like him but the development of him from BvS to zack snyders justice league makes sense, he’s a broken man with broken rules but once united with the other justice league members he is given hope and sees greater for the future a bright future hence the reason at the end of zack snyders justice league the scene is all lit up and bright compared to how the same place was shown after a ptsd nightmare because he wasn’t given that hope
Here's the problem: we never actually got attached to him line enough for that to settle. Plus, the CORE of Batman's character since the silver age has been his complete and utter devotion to his moral code. To have him lose that in his first movie completely shatters the essence of his character.
@@andyroobrick-a-brack9355 yh but the Batman this was based on while he had a strong moral code he killed and this Batman is just like that but way more broken ..I mean the legends of the dark knight showed us what Batman could do if he was broken.
@@andyroobrick-a-brack9355 yeh that was a huge issue we don’t actually get the development and what makes it confusing is that zack Snyder was acting like as if that was the idea of it and said “oh yeah Batman kills because they were there so not really his fault” honestly think he just said that out of fear because people were hammering him about it and wanted to give a very simple idea
Yes. I always love the idea that Batman just cant stop being Batman. As much as I loved Nolans films, the idea that Batman could hang up his cape and retire is just not right for me. He was meant to be one who just couldn't give up and always to his detriment and to the detriment of people around him. If Dark Knight was the final film I wouldve loved it even more because it wouldve felt that he will always be batman, even if he was outside of the law, outside of the publics defense. Thats why prehaps Battison is a nice addition with this obsession he has
*do you not get that he’s just a man ? And that people don’t live forever, sure the symbolism of Batman will but that’s why he passed the mantle onto somebody else*
This is awesome! Keep up the great work! My personal thoughts with each movie. Batman 89: The story is all over the place. Batman doesn’t have a very interesting arc, he’s too much of a background character for his own movie. There was too many cooks in the kitchen. Jack Nicholson is good as the Joker, but he’s just too much, Michael Keaton is fantastic, but he’s not given much to do. Batman Returns: I like it better than 89, but it has similar problems. Batman is too much of a supporting character in his own movies. The Penguin is just gross lol, he’s not very threatening or intimidating, he’s just disgusting. The plot is also all over the place. Batman Forever: Jim Carrey was fun, but his Riddler is more like the Mad Hatter, and Two-face is pretty much a Joker knock off. Robin is okay, but he’s just too much of the whiny side kick. I did like how Batman was given more to do in this movie, but his arc is pretty wasted especially when you see the deleted scenes. Batman and Robin: The whole film speaks for itself haha. Batman Begins: Great film, it brings Batman back to a more serious environment. I liked the Superman 78 influences. Gets a little standard superhero flick towards the end, and Ra’s is a little wasted, but I appreciate the actual focus on Batman/Bruce. The Dark Knight: Great movie! Batman is pretty overshadowed, and Christian Bale doesn’t bring much energy to the part. Dark Knight Rises: Christian Bale is in better form, the plot is a little messy, and I think they could have handled the beginning better with Bruce Wayne’s retirement of Batman. Batman V Superman: Not a great movie. Ben Affleck is great in the role, but the character is written too much an edge lord fantasy by being a killer. It’s just lazy. The Batman: definitely my favorite Batman film. Yea it’s grounded, but it’s not ashamed of its source material. Robert Pattinson kills it in this role! Batman is psychologically unstable and scarred. He’s finally the star of his own movie.
BvS ultimate edition was a masterpiece. The only problem was that it was a bit rushed but still Snyder made it well. Storyline, emotions, the perfect actors, dialogues, soundtrack were all perfect. This movie is underrated af.
I still think Ben Affleck's batman had one of the better live action batman stories, unfortunately a story that no one gave a chance because they completely misunderstood his story and refused to even slightly try to understand it. Like you said the original movies did little to nothing with batman himself and Nolan's batman had one long arc which, at times, made him a very static character, which is not a particularly bad thing but outside of a few moments in begins and the pit in Rises, left me wishing there was a little more. I'd love to explain Batfleck's arc because it's great but not only have I written so much already, I also feel like people are just going to ignore everything and be like "but he kills"
Batflecks story would only have even had the potential to he good of we saw that him when he actually behaved like batman... relying on cheap exposition is not deep
I see the Nolan Trilogy as post 9-11 films reacting to terrorism. I always preferred Batman as a detective, which was sorely lacking before the latest film. But I love the distinct vision of Tim Burton's films.
I like Batman as well, I think I am kind of like your type (Batman) plus the man inside (The Dark Knight Trilogy) I mean like you said he could be the light Gotham needs, by being this “Darkness” but then again I love to see the man under that mask. So I have to agree and disagree at the same time that Bruce “died” in the Crime Alley, but it definitely destructed his psyche i won’t argue with that. I believe Bruce Wayne can be a light as being seeing as “Gotham’s Golden Boy” and try to make Gotham a better place with Financial resources, Donations, Charities, and such. And at the same time i believe Batman (as a character) is a symbol some fear it others have hope when they see it. Haven’t had the opportunity to watch the new movie yet, but I’ll guess will see. I completely agree with the games, they are something else because there you are the predator you can “feel” like Batman or even BE. For people who like Bruce and Batman: I recommend you definitely should try “Batman The Tattletale Series” on the Xbox,PS, PC.
Agreed. Pattinson is my Batman. No other actor has worn the pain and rage of his parents' loss in every frame of their performance like we see in The Batman. His eyes alone convey so much.
I thought it was because none of them were the perfect movie Batman, even tho most of them featured the main aspects of him like: Prepared Gadgetry (West), Intimidation (Keaton), Stealth (Bale), Strength (Affleck) and Detective Work (Pattinson).
Funny because I can’t watch the Batman again after watching the Batman. It’s one of the most in-rewatchable movies ever. Cinematography is beautiful but it ends there.
I have pretty much Wached all the live action/animated movie's and wached nearly every cartoon,played all the Arkham games....And collected almost any piece of Batman merchandise even today as I'm technically an adult now...I think it's safe to say I really love the character😂
The problem is that it never got to take off, I would have loved to see Ben Affleck get his own batman movie and see what it would have done for that character but we never got it and it doesn't seem like anyone wants to continue that story, it sucks but that's my problem with it. Just not enough of it.
She's invested in winning freeze because he doesn't react to her pheromone powers the way any other male would. He's already tied; so she misinterprets his "chill" resistence as needing to get Mrs. Freeze out the door, so she can have what she wants. (You always want what you can't have, because you can't have it) It's a pride point as well, because she wants to prove her powers will work on him, and that without that influence she believes is allowing him to resist (barring the soft science if you apply his physiological difference) she would win him. Which would also get her the type of love she wants, that she is innately jealous of. He's loyal to the point of commiting all monsterous deeds and accidentally mutating himself, just to save his wife. It's less Poison Ivy, and more Poisoned by Envy. With the Nolan Trilogy, I think you hit on a point; I also think you're missing one. You see Batman as the "real" Bruce Wayne. So does he. Because he NEEDS that division. He wants Bruce Wayne separate from the chaos that caused Batman to exist. The key is: They ARE the same person. He's compelling because of that duality. He's a pschological case study in balance, because of that flipped coin that makes him a perfect mirror, inverse of Harvey. He matches Joker as well as he does for a foil (particularly when you account for one of the versions of Joker's history being Jack Napier as the Red Hood and made into Joker by raw accident by the Batman during his earliest adventures before he became the symbol he now is) It's the argument for Clark too. Superman is what I can do; Clark Kent is who I am... well, what you can do is as much who you are too. The reason Rachel was Harvey's fiancee in that movie at all was because she knew Bruce was never going to stop being the Batman. It was ingrained at that point. It was part of him, and she wasn't willing to see that side. Which is why she slapped him (which I highly disagree with, since she didn't know about his other life, and only began to see how damned wrong she was just before she died) Bruce Wayne IS Batman. Batman is Bruce Wayne. The two are not divisible. You need both to magnetize as far as a truly compelling story. I think your problem is the Nolan features didn't balance both characters. That's probably more down to collateral pay outs, and raw cash involved in filming the super hero scenes as Batman. Christian Bale playing Bruce is a lot less costly. On the actors involved and the budget as well. Even if a fair few would argue it less compelling.
I completely agree with the Keaton take and Bale letting someone die is not Batman, but Affleck nailed Batman. Twilight lacked true detective skills as well as any real fighting prowess. Everyone he fought for right back up until he injected himself with adrenaline at the end. Not Batman
At least you aknowledge that it's your personal problems more than the movies itself. But there're still things missing because of personal biases. -The classic "no killing rule" in TDK trilogy is deconstructed. The movies aknowledge that it's practically impossible in the real world with real problems to hold on to that ideal. When killing Ra's, Bruce understood that in some degree it was neccesary. But in the sequel, he fully accepts that (because yes, Batman kinda goes free of guilt with the "no killing, but no saving") and kills Harvey undestanding how people sometimes need these lies to beliefe, which TDKR (Nolan) also confronts that idea when at the end, Bruce has to lie about his death to be the hero Gotham wanted Batman to be. -About BvS, I don't know how people can't undestand that it's supposed to be "what Batman should never be" (even though having a "definitve version of a character" seems kinda... childish and restricting artistically tbh) and how it's also a hopeful answer to the Batman explanation of no killing in Under The Red Hood when even though "going down into that place" he could come back. -And btw, what you said of The Batman about his no regard for his own life. That's actually the central conflict of Batman in TDKR (Nolan). I also have personal opinions about this things and personal preferences, but because of those biases you missed an important thing (if not the most important thing of TDK trilogy) regarding his exploration of the classic Batman character.
In regards to BvS and ZSJL, I wanna add that what I especially like is how it establishes Superman as Batman's beacon of hope and reason to have faith in good (or justice) no matter how bad the world gets and how far you fall, you can still be heroic (another thing I guess was too subtle is that Dick Grayson being the Robin that is killed makes Bruce have the knee jerk reaction that his 'code' failed because his successor died trying to live by it, so him being older and more bitter makes him totally not care about his code)
Snyder’s Batman can kill, but that trait needs to be consistent. He can’t spare THE JOKER and kill everyone else! How does that make any sense? The Joker is the one person that Batman SHOULD kill when given the chance but he doesn’t. Even in the Knightmare timeline, Joker still lives!
@@hunterfogleman7443 yeah, I do think that they need to clear that up, because I was under the impression that Joker was simply running away, like in that scene from Suicide Squad 2016, because it would lose its meaning if Batman kills him while he's already killing other criminals. I suspect they would have cleared that up in the (*edit*Jared Leto) Joker movie that was supposed to happen but... yeah. As for the Knightmare, if I remember correctly, the reason Batman didn't kill Joker is because he knows the location of a Motherbox that they'll use to build the cosmic treadmill for Flash to jump back in time (that "am I too soon" scene in BvS being an instance that they messed it up) another reason I heard was that he helped them get weapons, but I might be wrong on that one
@@hunterfogleman7443 It's implicit that Batman started killing after Superman's arrival. That's probably the reason why we don't see the Joker because he has won and because of that he's just a gangster in SS (because at least in the mainstream, Batman is his reason to be a criminal) but sadly we don't know how exactly his relationship with that Batman was.
@@dc7981 I mean snyder Nolan Burton Schumacher Reeves the comics dcau and even in the Arkham games IF they were being realistic and taking real world physics into consideration
That fake speech that Bill (Kill Bill) gave about Superman I think applies more to Batman than anyone I can think of except maybe Rorschach. Bruce Wayne literally spent decades preparing to become and transforming into Batman.
On the topic of batman's no kill loophole, there's other instances that showed how his loopholes outside of the movies was implemented better. I cant remember which Arkham game it was, i think it was origins but idk all the details, anyway joker had bombs strapped on bane or something and pinned him and batman into an inescapable fight, the only way out was that someone had to die. Batman's solution was to kill bane, which diffused bombs, then resuscitate bane through shock gloves in order to save bane. He did this because that was the best course of action, loopholes arent all bad tho they can easily be bad.
The complete overlooking of Batman in BvS is a shame. That is the most interesting portrayal of the character on screen for me. This Batman has a long history and it is heavily implied he once had the no kill rule and he snapped. The entire film is about his redemption.
100% The batman is finally a movie where it displays the mythos fully. Also the casual batman fans forget that he’s the world greatest detective and very comic book nerds batman to detect. So imagine the most popular and best batman comics on screen, 50% of people won’t love it but we will as batman fans.
bro i cannot agree more, born in 2000 i do not really understand the love for the older batman movies, until nolan but it always felt like smth missing. Not batman enough, not the one in animated series, justice league animated series. Until this one, this is a truly Batman movie. Other people may not see the art of Batman molding Bruce Wayne but as hard core fan i agree completely. Batman isn't two face, day time playboy night time batman, batman IS batman. Like it been said MANNNY times, but truly Bruce is his mask!
I always felt bad for Joel Schumacher. He is painted as the man who nearly killed Batman movies when they weren't even the movies he wanted to make. The studio was breathing down his neck demanding the toy commercial they wanted. There is a darker cut of Batman Forever that is supposedly better than what we got, but I doubt we will ever see it.
i do like some of the live action batman movies but I feel like they don't fully commit. the animated versions have been close to the character. but I think the batman came close
Fuck a story.. We’ve seen Batman’s story countless of times, in comics, movies, animated movies and series and video games.. I want Batfleck. The most visually pleasing Batman yet. Despite whatever his “story” is, if you’re grown enough to not care that he kills people, you should agree he’s the best live action Batman we had in terms of physicality. He’s a tactical, brutal fighter who doesn’t pull his punches.
Fully agree Mr smart. Batman has always been my favourite character in fiction, loved the comics, animated shows/movies, games etc. I did enjoy batman begins, dark knight and batman 1989, but they all pale in comparison to the aforementioned sources. The Nolan movies tried to be too "realistic" and thus never really felt like they actually existed in Gotham city. More like a generic new York city or something. Heck, even arkham origins is a better batman representation than the movies. Was going to give the new batman movie a miss, but I'll give it a shot now.
Ofc Batman killed Harvey. Different situation from The Joker push because Harvey was about to kill Commissioner Gordon's son. Batfleck is underrated btw I think you disrespected him for no reason.
@@rockinHurley777 Yeah I mean, I get the joke - Batfleck's characterisation was contradictory to the author's preferred interpetation of Batman such that he did not warrant an extended discussion because it simply 'goes without saying'. However I still think Batfleck has the most advanced gadgets, greatest agility and strength, best fighting style, and so many other redeeming factors that overlook the "no kill rule". He could have also used it to discuss the parallels between that and The Dark Knight Returns Bruce. Batfleck is supposedly older and jaded, having no problem resorting to the 'final solution' of killing after Jason Todd's death.
@@lessthensmart9666 you made a really high quality video even though you don't have that many subscribers but if you make videos like this you will def get subs
i think Ben Afleck is a great Batman, he feels to me like a Batman after the Dark Knight Returns, where he killed the Joker and then killed every criminal he meets, the Joker in those movies is a kingpin who took his mantle, i see it like that, love how imposing he is
@@justrandomstuff6828 Like see how Affleck version started out and he had his no killing rule with the no guns but eventually he breaks and is forced to go against his rules. They showed there was a Robin that joker killed but he never got to see anything of how Affleck batman was in his early days.
@@Ian-hj4yt you don’t get to decide that lol I have action figures from my childhood that are probably older than most of “The Batman” target audience. FOH
@@derricknichols5787 Steve Englhart and Denny O'Neil are two great comic book writers who had great runs on Detective comics. Neal Adams and Marshall Rodgers where great comic book artist.
Tbh I agree with the points you bring to attention, they even seem more like facts than an opinion (to me at least). It's upsetting when things are not consistent (for example the "Batman doesn't kill" in the trilogy movies), because if that happens, the character loses what makes them be them¿. Idk how to explain myself. But yea, great vid! The Arkham games are fantastic, they explore more the Batman than Bruce.
I’ve actually thought of a good rewrite for Batman and Robin. I’d get rid of poison ivy and just have Bane & mr. Freeze be the films antagonists. Here’s what I’d add to Banes origin. He was a criminal from Brazil who moved to Gotham, where the Batman catches him. Let’s say for some reason he’s sent back to a jail cell in Brazil, and the scientist from the movie (forgot his name) picks him up for his experiment. I’d have the scientist and Victor Freeze (mr. Freeze) know each other. Maybe they were friends in college or something. Just something to connect mr. Freeze with Bane. Just like in the film, Bane gets injected with venom and escapes. Since poison ivy is no longer in the picture, Bane kills the scientist. He then goes back to Gotham city to take revenge on Batman for putting him in that cell, where he was found by a madman to be experimented on. Along the way, he teams up with mr. Freeze, convincing him that with Batman out of the way he can save his poor wife. So, what do you think of the rewrite?
Why not just cast Arnold as Bane and have him get his venom from Poison Ivy, so it would explain why they're so inclined to join forces against Batman?
@@radrno7 Well, I took away poison ivy from my rewrite because I thought three villains were too much for the movie. Also, I wanted the movie to have two main conflicts. The conflict with Batman & Robin vs the villains, and the conflict between Batman & Robin. In the movie, Batman & Robins conflict was amplified by poison ivy’s “seductive powers”. I didn’t like that. They didn’t need ivy to push Batman & Robins conflict further. There was already a good reason for their bickering. Robin wants more admiration and doesn’t just want to be known as the sidekick. Boom! That’s all you need. Not having them fight over a woman. And yes, I know Robin comes to his senses near the end and tricks ivy, but I just think poison ivy shouldn’t have been in the movie at all. That being said, Arnold Schwarzenegger as Bane doesn’t sound half bad. It’d be a better cast for him than as Mr. Freeze.
The Batman was actually about Batman unlike the other movies. I've been preaching it the last few days. The other movies were about Bruce. It's nice for Bruce to not give a shit about Bruce and totally focus on Batman. Bruce Wayne is definitely the mask
I kinda know what you mean, I feel the same with Joker, like they’ve been amazing versions of him, but almost fragmented? Like you need to Chuck Nicolson’s, ledger’s and Phoenix’s all together you know?
My problem with those movies is they never want to have them exist in a world of meta humans they keep grounding them in realism instead of bringing in the supernatural and they never want to do with batfamily properly
Good video. As a Batman fan myself, I'm quite forgiving of Batman's involvement in the deaths of Ras, Harvey and Talia because it answers the question: What would it take for Batman to kill or let someone die? It's not quite as black and white when you realise how high the stakes at hand were in the case of these three villains in particular. Ras was the head of something far worse than a criminal organisation, and prison would never have held him given how much power, influence and skill the League of Shadows possessed in the art of infiltration and subversion. Harvey Dent's reputation as Gotham's White Knight was completely ruined when he decided to take his revenge, and remaining alive would have proceeded to him standing trial and going to prison for his crimes which would have meant that all hope would have been lost in Gotham. As for Talia, well, she was transporting a nuke that was bound to go off at any minute, taking Gotham with it if it did. As for Batfleck straight up gunning down low-level thugs in BvS, so that he could unnecessarily chase a transport truck he had already successfully placed a tracker on, that's a whole different story.
A fellow batman fan.... But I really like the animated movies live action makes it seem as if it's hard to move in the suit....which doesn't fit the batman fighting style
Wait whaaaat, Harvey shot Batman and had Gordon’s kid hostage threading to kill him. He actually was going to do so also. It also showed that when Batman tackled Harvey off the ledge. He saved Gordon’s boy and himself by holding onto the ledge
I find the whole "bruce is dead there is only batman" thing overdone, it would be way more interesting if both personas were real and batmans true persona being a hybrid of the 2
A movie revolving around Batman and not just Bruce Wayne is always a delight to see. I've been waiting for it - and the proper adaption is finally here. a well done video.
I always wanted a scene where Batman forces his non killing ideas on other people and then the person rejects and kills anyway and says "I didn't force you to live by my ideals and kill, so you also shouldn't." But we all know that scene can't happen because for that the person rejecting Batman's ideas would have to be equally strong or stronger/smarter than Batman, which writers would never show.
I've come to accept, and even approve of, the fact that in any modern (1970s or later) story about Batman, it is unrealistic to show him as a complete moral paragon. Absolute moral scruples simply have to yield to the nasty business of enforcing justice in a nasty world. As much as the child in me would relish seeing a Batman who was unfailingly loving and forgiving, I know that if he were those things he would not be Batman anymore; he would be Jesus. Besides, a hero who is flawed in at least a few ways is so much more interesting.
Basically you want animated series Batman but live action? I really want that too, especially Joker, animated series/Arkham Joker is my fav, i'd love a live action Joker who's a showman but still just a lunatic
Hey, thanks for putting your perspective out there! I find myself agreeing with a lot of what you said. My go-to Batman and his circle of unfortunate misfits in my childhood were version from The Animated Series, nowadays it's the Arkham Trilogy, that said, here are my thoughts on the movies: I don't like most of the movies all that much, older ones are just weird interpretations that don't sit well with me, Nolan's saga is admitedly really cool, it's influential, it's groundbreaking, all around quality stuff, but personally I don't really enjoy them, in particular I don't like Christian Bale as Batman, I can't put my finger on why, but it just doesn't work for me, it's a weird gripe to have, I know. The Batman is probably my favourite out of the bunch, but even then I don't know what to make of it. I enjoy cinematography and art direction immensely, it's such a beautiful and moody movie, I love it, Pattinson's performance is really good in my eyes and the way he portrais Bruce, he's not a playboy millionaire, he's socially inept recluse, lost and confused without his Batman persona, I really enjoy this version of the character. But on the other hand, I really don't like how it was written, I've got frustrated with the plot multiple times and every character seemed so oblivious, it torn me right out of the movie on multiple occasions. I dunno, overall I like it, but can't say I'll be coming back for a rewatch anytime soon.
Loved Batman ever since I saw TAS as a kid. Watched Batman beyond and The Batman '04. Never really into the comics or videogames til I was older, funny enough. I got to experience the dark knight and tdk rises during their prime and loved Christian Bales version. When Ben was announced, I told myself to just wait and see how his version would be and I was hooked. Yeah he killed but it made sense for his version. Dissapointed we didn't get more of his Batman. I did the same for Robert and I was just absolutely blown away and mesmerized by his portrayal. In short, I love all version of the B-man. Thats what makes me such a big fan, he has thousands of different versions that are badass in their own way.
