MY THOUGHTS ON THE SPIDER GENE 

I really struggle when people try to justify breeding spiders by comparing them to autism. Autism does not cause that kind of neurological issue. If people were breeding dogs that couldn't stand because of a severe neurological issue there would be hell on. It makes me question if they truly care for the animal. I'm severely disabled, I wont have kids cause the thought of bringing something that cannot thrive is something I cannot live with even if it's just a chance. People who still insist on breeding morphs they know combined may only survive a year are the same. Spider/kinking/dog inbreeding are all in the same boat to me. My snakes are my babies and they deserve the best chance in life not risk a life of internal turmoil.

I was originally against the spider gene, but NERD slowly convinced me that the neurological issue was blown out of proportion. This led me to buying an Enchi Spinnerblast proven-breeder male from them and the second I opened the bag, I decided I wouldn't breed him and that I would never buy from NERD again. He's beyond screwed, easily gets panicked if his entire body isn't touching the ground (no sense of up or down), and takes over an hour to eat. He's also never successfully grabbed f/t rats two inches in front of him. He'll live a long life and has never given me any real problems as a keeper, but it still revolts me that they bred him.

My cat had his eye removed as a baby, and the surgery site got infected. Though we treated that infection, it apparently spread to his brain, because he now has moderate-severe neurological problems. Seeing the change in his demeanor from before this issue to now, I can't imaging INTENTIONALLY creating animals with this kind of problem. It DOES affect their quality of life and nobody can change my mind.

As someone in a wheelchair, I don’t support breeding animals known to have genetic defects. I don’t understand how anyone could knowingly do that.

Finally someone who thought about the health before the beauty,much respect

Thank you for thinking of the wellbeing of the animal first

You hit the nail on the head. Moral Compass or a quest for financial gain. I appreciate your insights and your championing of our Freedoms. Thank you.

Thank you for expressing your thoughts on this sensitive subject. I agree with your thoughts about the dangers of banning spider ball pythons. They do better in captivity than the vast majority of species we keep in this hobby. If we ban them, we open the door to widespread bans.

I am new to snakes. That said, I’ve been keeping and breeding tarantulas for around 20 years and have a graduate degree studying them. My wife and I decided that we wanted to get a ball python for our pet family. We did lots of research about all the basics and got ourselves ready. The spider snakes caught my attention, mostly for the name, but I learned about their issues quickly and we decided not to get one of those. We went to a reptile show to find our snake and left with a really beautiful one. Despite knowing to avoid the spider morph, we ended up with a spider cross. Since we didn’t know to learn every morph that has spider in it, we just asked if it was a spider. Nope, it’s a bumblebee. All seemed well and we brought him home. It’s been a few months and he’s doing well, but we do see some issues here and there (every once in a while, his head rips upside down briefly). It doesn’t seem to bother him much, and we still love him. We never intended to breed snakes, so he’s going to be just a pet. We’re both autistic, so we just look at him as if he’s just like us: disabled, but still awesome. My point in this, we knew to avoid this gene and still ended up with a snake that has it. Unless you’re deep into the hobby, it’s hard to keep track of all of this stuff. Even doing our research, we didn’t know what we didn’t know and walked right into what we were trying to avoid. As far as the government getting involved: NO. I’m as far to the left as you can be, politically, but I’ve seen the results of this stuff first hand. Unless legislators know first hand about a topic, they’ll screw it up. Two examples: I grew up in Florida. When I was younger, I worked as a body piercer for a while. Florida decided to regulate tattoos and piercings. They got an “expert” (the head of the professional tattoo alliance or something similar) and had this one guy draft the bill. A big tattoo group was going to fight against it, but we’re able to strike a deal where tattooing would stay mostly unregulated in return for them not fighting the piercing stuff. The law was written and it did nothing to help close filthy shops. The regulations were just loopholes you could jump through with a little money, and all piercers had to pay a lot of money every year for a license that only verified you knew how to put gloves on. It also straight up banned several body art practices that were safe in the right hands- forcing them into underground sources (usually hotel rooms at tattoo conventions), taking away any hope of sterile conditions you could get before the law. Second example: Also in Florida, they have issues with invasives. No surprise. So they wanted to ban multiple animals common in the pet trade. While Burmese pythons were a good add (look at what they’re doing in the Everglades if you disagree), they added many things that made no sense- praying mantises, scorpions, degus (I may be misremembering that one), etc. you couldn’t even get a permit to keep them, despite them being no risk. They went in to handle a ban on Burmese pythons, iguanas, and red eared sliders. They came out with a ban on Burmese and many other things, but not iguanas or the turtles. The whole bill got warped by irrational fears like, “I saw a picture of a mantis eating a bee, so they might destroy the honey industry!” Mantids almost never eat bees, so there was no reason for that ban or most of the others (I won’t argue for Nile monitors given the ease at which large reptiles establish there). Point is, taking this stuff to government rarely ends how you intend it. That’s a risk you have to accept when you do it. If you think they’ll ban one morph, you’re wrong. It’ll include other stuff. Also, the hobby should do a better job of putting out info on these morphs that have the spider gene. I wish we’d been able to make a more informed decision on our snake. The most I would ever consider is asking shows to ban those morphs from being sold. That would really cut into their presence, I think.

I think there needs to be more awareness. I would be fine if they mandated that all breeders have to inform customers that spiders need a bit of an extra keen eye when it comes to husbandry because stress can cause further issues. I'm shook that it took me years of looking into balls before finding out about the spider issues.

I had a BEL ball python that somehow had a severe wobble since day one. She recently passed due to unrelated causes, but the entire time I had her it looked like she was suffering. She would hit her head into things, flinch extremely hard, could hardly strike straight or even stay rightside up. Despite her eating and shedding fine, no matter what I was told I could NOT believe that she was living a comfortable life. It’s sad to say but when I froze and buried her it was almost relieving to not see her head moving like that anymore. Even though her case was much more severe than most, I honestly can not imagine wanting to breed an animal with an issue like that of any magnitude of just for a nice pattern and some extra cash. I feel that there’s SO many other genes out there that breeders could work with. That being said, yes it IS ultimately their choice. I think expos can be allowed to ban the sales of certain morphs considering they run it as a private event, but it definitely is ridiculous to outlaw such a niche issue.

Actually, people CAN tell you what to do with animals. You can't torture your animals; that's animal cruelty, and it's against the law. You can't hunt endangered species. I'm not saying that breeding a particular gene is animal cruelty. I know it's not black and white. If you knowingly produce animals with serious disabilities, in my opinion, you're damaging the hobby. Enigma leopard geckos are awful. You're projecting an image that reptile keepers are cruel people who don't care about animal welfare. It's irresponsible. You're not protecting your liberty by abusing it.

when you place the health of animals over your own wants and desires as a breeder you can tell that you truly love and respect an animal. this is called ethical breeding! beautiful snake and great video. you have my respect sir!

Personally, I am perfectly fine with a general ban on the reproduction of all animals that have inherent health issues that lead to a reduced quality of life, including dogs with stubbed/short noses or similar.

After watching this video, I grew more respect for any person who loves animals. There are little to no people who would want to bring pain onto their own kids, and your snakes are your family. Huge respect as a man and animal enthusiast.

We need more moral and ethical breeders that are educated in genetics out there ... more heart in the industry like you

I wouldn't expect anything else from you but professionalism, honesty and intelligence. You did not disappoint. Thank you for this video!!

I was a very healthy and active 34 year old man and I randomly had a stroke and now I'm 41 lol and I now have seizures which I had never had before! But I'm telling you, that the way that the spiders act is exactly how I feel when I'm having a seizure! And it's terrifying to go through! I can promise you from first hand account!

I’m so glad you posted this. I also hated seeing the babies suffering like that. It wears on you. Ethically and emotionally. So inspire of all the people posting this I’m glad you did it too!

I think this is such a difficult issue to solve. I agree that this isn’t the type of issue our federal government should weigh in on. However, I also don’t believe it should be left up to individuals do with as they please. I agree with the UK banning the sale of spiders at expo. It makes it slightly more difficult to make money off selling them and discourages the breeding without banning them all together. The bottom line is that you are aware when breeding that some of these snakes will have a neurological issue, and I think to continue breeding with that knowledge is unethical. I applaud you for your decision to stop.

Finally a person who cares more about ethics and the animals life, rather then money. Thank u Dave. I’m a brand new sub and so glad I found your channel recently. I feel the same way about breeding pugs and French bull dogs. They all have smashed faces and can’t breathe right. Many think they r so cute when they snore and breathe loudly. It’s not cute. They can’t breathe. The only way to fix this problem is by surgery. And most owners don’t get the surgery. They don’t want to pay for it. And then they turn around and breed them and make more dogs who can’t breathe. Wow. Blows my mind away. Thanks Dave. So much respect.

Great video Dav! I have many spiders but I’m currently holding onto a few that have some neurological issues. They eat fine and they would breed fine if I let them. As Kevin said it’s a roll of the dice when you breed them and the offspring of my rather severe animals might be completely normal. I would just rather not risk it as one of my severe animals had a severe mother, a beautiful bumble enchi who was my breeder for years.

Missed this video on my normal RU-vid binging. Most intelligent breakdown of the conversation about them. Nice.

You really are an inspiration, it’s so obvious you have such a passion for every critter in your personal care or out free roaming around. Thank you for your knowledge and taking this gal out of West Virginia as I watch and very much enjoy your reptile adventures. Best wishes always ☺️

Hi Dāv, thanks for making this video and better late than never. With all the conflicting information out there on this topic, I think it’s important for newbie ball python breeders to hear this kind of first-hand account from someone in the hobby as experienced, highly respected and well reputed as you. As much as I respect Kevin and Brian B, they’re speaking from their “in-the-best-of-circumstances” first-hand experience when clearly there are others who are having a very different experience with this gene and the resulting catastrophic aftermath. This is one case where I feel a gene ought be judged by its worst-case-scenario of which anecdotally there are plenty of examples. Too many. Breeders are striving for beauty and market success but at what cost? I can’t help but think of that admittedly stunning albino leopard gecko you recently featured at an expo that literally couldn’t open its eyes from the discomfort. Would any of us want to go through life unable to simply open our eyes in a lit room? If you don’t see an issue there, then clearly there’s a lack of empathy at play. We’ve appointed ourselves stewards of these reptiles and every individual life ought be precious and cherished.

I agree- no bans required. Just responsible ethical breeders.

Well said Dav anybody who thinks the government should be involved needs their heads examined. I also want to thank you for mentioning the other morphs that have issues and I agree that it seems that the spider gene gets all the attention and it drives me crazy. I do have one spider axanthic female I love the look of the spider but have been leaning more towards the pinstripe as of late. Do more vids like this when you have the time. Thanks again for a great discussion on a hot topic.

This is probably one of the best videos on the spider bp controversy that Is on YT in my opinion. I agree with you! The idea of banning them in the US is crazy! Like you said we have the ability to police ourselves. Personally I think they can be bread if they have little to no wobble. I'm hopefully going to be taking part in breeding a female spider to a banana male next season which is very exciting! But if I find that the offspring have anything severe or just don't do well than I will obviously no longer take part in that breeding project.

Thanks for the info and video

Spider Gene Creator Here **DABS**

This was a very enlightening and informative vid. Well done Dav.🖤 Under no circumstances do I want the government involved in any aspect of my personal life, especially regarding my reptiles. We as a community have fought long and hard to change the perception of reptiles in the public eye. Why would anyone want to jeopardize the progress thats been made, over a personal opinion? Not only ridiculous but scary. I really enjoy these types of vids, keep it up! AND, wow, can't wait for your trip with Dan! He and Apple are awesome people! 🖤

I was already a fan, but damn man, I'm a fan for life now. lol Love the history portion of your talk, very well said. Thanks for doing what you do and keep it up.

Hi my name is Peecko and I'm a Cockatiel ❤ Love you're channel!

Amen. Liberty is the most fundamental aspects of this country. It shall not be infringed. The idea of a governmental ban is a classic symptom of self righteousness and the Dunning-Kruger Effect sadly. I support private expos enforcing their personal beliefs (which is what the IHS did) as much as I support private breeders exercising there freedom to breed. Education and social pressure has been more effective to change culture than any law as you know. Thanks for this video. Your stance for freedom has really been awesome to see.

I love that you are so reasonable and logical. I agree that it’s a personal decision you have to make as a breeder. Unfortunately, there are many people out there who need everyone to think as they do so if they are against the spider gene they want to stop others from breeding it as well. It’s definitely a slippery slope like you stated. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

You're so right about husbandry affecting neurological issues. I have neurological problems and simple things like stress, sleep and food really affect it.

I think it’s important to remember that it’s NOT a ban from a government but rather from a company who is only banning spiders within their own events. I also don’t think a law is going to solve the issue because it would be incredibly difficult to enforce, and what would happen to the snakes that already exist? The important question here is: does this impact the snake’s quality of life? It’s not possible to say that this egg is going to have a severe wobble and that one isn’t. So we should focus on educating those who do not understand the risks, and encourage people to make an informed decision. And I think that we should 1000% also talk about the other morphs with traits like the spider. But while I don’t think a law is the answer, I do think that the snake is the most important part of the conversation. Not that the pattern is beautiful, but that we as keepers are doing everything we can to give our animals the best life possible from creation onwards.

Finally a responsible breeder. You really care for the animals. Thank you very much You can breed beautiful snakes without the terrible gene.

Excellent example of how when left alone, We The People will make the right decision for the common good. The U.S. Constitution is the world’s most brilliant libertarian document ever put into force. There will never be another like it. American is the best experiment in self governance to ever happen. Thanks for your insite and thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me in Anaheim today. I was the one who mentioned the anaconda pic on LinkedIn that got so many people riled up. You’re the best my friend. I hope the natives here in Cali were good to you this trip. Safe travels. And did you just mention a colab with Run DME? So insane! I think it is the colab video you did at Kusko’s house that I commented on that yours and Dan’s channels were my most favorite underrated and under watched of all the HerpTube channels! Boy do I know how to pick ‘em! Peace my brother!!!! Until we meet again...

I love how gently you put it that spiders aren't great. I was attracted to the spider ball pythons as well but after doing research I decided that was not for me, We got a banana instead :)

I rescued a spinner from a local pet store that said she had just stopped eating. Same day I brought her home she ate. The only time she ever started spiraling she made the conclusion her food size was too small and didnt eat for 2 weeks. She is back to normal now, I will never breed her, I will never buy a spider, but if I see a spider that needs to be taken in I will take it in and help it. I respect your decision Dav, to anyone who disagrees I respect your decision. Y'all have a great day.

AWESOME VIDEO DAVE! Hands Down one of the best explanations of this situation! Govs should Always follow our forefather's rules. That's why they're there! An for Good Reason! Banning isn't the way. Should be up to the breeder, as long as the breeder makes buyer aware of what possibly can be an issue. Or effect that type of morph. So this way new hobbyists have knowledge of what they're buying or can possibly be an issue now or down the line. Well Done Dave!

As I mentioned in many other comments, if you get a Spider which has a bad loop, you could be stuck with a special needs pet for around 30 years if you're lucky/unlucky (depending on how much you treasure your snake). And that's why so many rescue Spiders have that problem. I have one, I love him and I struggle now and then. I'd love to do research on the topic, but I don't have any idea where to start. I adore your Pieds, btw 💕! Thanks for being an awesome, fact based guy and channel!

I recently bought a beautiful banana spider. I didn't know about the wobble until after but luckily she is perfectly fine. I can see the some wobble but if I didn't know about it I don't think I would question it.

There are people fighting for their rights to keep and/or breed specific animals as it is and then there are other people who wish to ban people's rights to keep and/or breed specific animals. It is amazing how many people wish to take away others' rights to choose. Your thoughts on the whole situation are spot on. Forcing bans upon people's actions is not a good thing. There is so much that would hinge on that form of decision and so much for people to lose.

I absolutely love my spider morph pet. He has a pretty noticeable wobble. He eats fine and seems to enjoy his life with me. I understand a decision not to breed them but I am grateful that some still do. He is gorgeous and is loved and spoiled. The wobble just makes me care that much more for him. That is the nurse in me.

Dāv, I absolutely love your take on this. Not only on the "government isn't your friend" line, but on the need to highlight other morphs with these issues. I, for one, am against a ban and humbly remind everyone calling for one to vote with their wallets on this one.

Ok so I just commented prematurely before I got towards the end... so I gotta comment again xD.... When you got to the part where you spoke on your degree.... ah man... bravo.... Bravo! When I get paid again I'm going to check to see if you have a patreon. You are definitely my new favorite!

you can breed spider gene royal pythons in the UK if you want, you just can't sell them at that reptile convention who have a policy against it.

Well said Sir 🙏

I know this comment is a super simplistic response to your video, but you’re a really nice guy. I really appreciated this video. So well done.

A Constitutionalist and historian. 🇺🇸 You rock even MORE now. 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸 And a Raiders of the Lost Ark reference. 🤘🏻🤯

👏👏👏 thoroughly enjoyed the video sir, didn't know you were a history major. Completely agree with your thoughts, it is a personal choice to produce or not produce the spider gene; the choice not to is made by those who develop the moral and ethical standards against it. Government intervention is a slippery, dangerous slope. Also, it's great to have someone share their personal experiences with some of these controversial genes.

I admire your opinion and u sharing it. I think a lot of people wanna tip toe around that bag of worms and I know it took some going back and forth on posting. You make valid points that I tossed in this head of mine. Ha There r many species we could have this discussion about. I like discussing and not fighting 👍🏻 I’ve learned so much from u Dav. I love ya!!

Never ask the government to regulate something that the average person doesn't understand. If the average person doesn't understand it, there wont be enough people to speak up when the government oversteps its boundaries

Lucky I saw this video. Thanks

Dav for president 2020!

Great video! Dav, you and the beautiful snake are so comfortable to together! I had to watch this video 2x times cuz I was mesmerized! Keep up the good work!

🌺Dav Kaufman for president 2020🌺 🤣😂 I love you Dav

Awsome video thank you

Would definitely love to see more videos like this. Enjoyed listening to you while I did reptile room cleaning. You make great points, and speak very well on the subject.

Most surprising part of the video was learning he has a degree in history! Really curious as to how he ended up where he is now

I love that you actually care about your reptiles.

This was so professional and well thought out. What a reasonable prospective! So glad that you made this video! Cheers, Chris

A good solution would be to make a wiki of sorts about basically all the morphs in existence, as a sort of reference, and listing characteristics, issues, etc. there that someone can look up before buying a reptile. That will give buyers a reference of sorts to see what issues they need to investigate before buying one. I don't have a reptile (it's banned here), I'm just sharing something I thought of.

This is one of your best videos. I love history, but my degree is in law. You are absolutely correct to take the stance you have. Knowing the government as I do, within a decade, very few unregulated breeders would be in business. The government would regulate the reptile industry to death! Not to start a huge argument, but look what they are trying to do with guns. We have the right to bare arms. The government, some of them, are working diligently to divest us of our rights. Snakes and lizards would be so much easier. There’s not the huge voice (read: money) behind them as there are gun hunters. So, yes, my friend, I totally agree with you, leave the government where it belongs; out of our lives!

I totally agree...... I purchased a Spider python not knowing these issues existed until I purchased it.. Yes my Spider has the wobble... However it has gotten better with us working with him.. However I wish the breeder would have informed us about the issues prior to buying him... But I am also to blame for not researching the purchase beforehand.. Great Video

I have a Cinnamon YB HGW who has a wobble due to her HGW and I will never have another wobble gene unless it is a rescue searching for an experienced home. Morgana lives in a beautiful PVC enclosure by AP in my room and watching her on a daily basis, I can testify that usually the neuro issues are triggered by specific conditions. Morgana corkscrews when I play music in my room because of the vibration, I’ve noted. She also calms down when I pick her up when she starts to corkscrew, which isn’t typical. Every snake with a wobble does have unique struggles with their neurological disorder and it is up to their keeper to support the snake and give them the conditions they need to have the most normal life. I will say though, it is hard to watch Morgana struggle to find her food, hold herself steady, and I do stay up with her all night on nights where she has bad episodes. There have been nights where I’m up with her til 4am because she’s corkscrewing so bad and whipping her head back and forth that it scares me she may hurt herself. Me placing my hand on her and holding her entire body against mine seems to help her calm herself, she stops thrashing and her tongue slows down- but it’s hard watch. My “pets” are more like my kids and I very much adore them to bits and pieces. To see one of my babes struggle with a problem that can’t be fixed and that she needs to rely on me more than my others breaks my heart. Do I believe in banning though? No. Banning is dangerous territory. I think the community does need to stop overbreeding royals though, especially wobble genes. Obviously I have no control over breeders, but with my experience having a neuro babe, I would really wish they would stop breeding them or at least be honest with the rest of the community on what they may be getting themselves into with how severe it could be. Pinstripe is such a great alternative to Spider and in my opinion, it’s prettier even. I wish people would work more with the genes that don’t have issues if they choose to breed an already overbred species like Royal Pythons.

I have garnered more respect for you in this video than I would have thought possible. Thank you for saying your thoughts on government I wish more had your attitude.

I'm from the UK and there is a huge issue with you're argument. Spider balls are NOT banned in the UK! You can go on Gumtree, Morph Market, Pets 4 Homes, hell you could walk into any pet store that sells BPs and find the spider morph because it IS NOT BANNED/AGAINST THE LAW IN THE UK. The IHS is not a branch of the government that dictates pet laws. The IHS is a group that anyone can join. It is for enthusiasts, hobbyists, breeders etc. The point of them is to learn from one another and help the community understand and love reptiles like we do. There are regular meetings that discuss heavy topics in the community, how to improve education programs, or even meet and greets where we bring animals and its great! The IHS also run the UKs only 'reptile convention' (described as a breeder's meeting but anyone can go for a small entry fee) in Doncaster and THAT is where the spider morph is banned as well as the jaguar morph in carpets and I believe the enigma gene in leos as well. It is against the rules of the IHS to sell these animals at their only show in the UK, that is it, it is not a LAW up and down the UK. They have every right to dictate what animals are sold there as it is them to who run it and anyone who wishes to sell such animals are absolutely free to do so outside of the show in Doncaster and any future IHS shows.

Even though this video was later , it was the best video I ever have seen. That gene is so beautiful and truly is unfortunate that they have such issues , but it takes a brave person to change course the way you have. I am a huge fan of you now! You are just pure hearted and honest. New sub for sure. This is funny how this is the first video I’ve ever seen from you, but you speaking from the heart spoke to mine. May the pied force be with you. Lol

Of all the videos on spider ball python yours is by far the most infomative ive seen . so thank you for making this video.

I completely agree with you. No ban. Your argument is very concise and cogent. Good work. Would I buy or breed them? No, but that's my decision.

I agree that I don't want the government involved in specific morphs, but I think individual organizations banning the sale of problem morphs or species at their events is completely appropriate, necessary and important. I think it's especially important for events open to the public and species often being sold as beginner reptiles to people who aren't familiar with the morphs and the additional care certain morphs might require. If we want to the right to continue to regulate ourselves as a hobby it's important that we actually do it. It's hard for me to blame people who literally and figuratively pay to clean up the messes of irresponsible breeders, dealers, and keepers for wanting tighter laws when we don't seem interested in bettering ourselves as a whole community.

Your take on this is 100% spot on. And you made the right personal decision.

Subbed. Thank you for being an outlier, for being empathetic.

i'm always late to the good talks. 100% agree. at least in the states, it is the responsibility of the individual, not the government or anyone else to make your own personal choices. if you think you can responsibly contribute to what you want to contribute to, go for it and good luck.

Your stand on freedom is truly American, and you're a true animal lover. You are a great spokesman for the hobby in America.

I like this style video. I also like your videos with tortoises. 🐢

Great video. The best advice! Never ever ask the government to step in... anything. Moral fortitude and policing yourself is the way to go. Unfortunately doesn’t always work out for the hobby. Really great to hear about upcoming travel. Love Dan and Apple. Great content coming our way !!! Safe travels and love this vlog! 👍👊🏻

Rightly said, we as people can do this. The government already tells you what you can and can't do on to many things. We as hobbyists can manage this situation. I enjoyed this video and all of your other videos very much, keep on doing what your doing.

It seems to me that the UK ban at shows was in an effort to shield the public from unscrupulous breeders and vendors of these morphs. If the public was told about the animals defect, or possibility of a defect, and the potential of the animal being special needs then maybe the ban would never have been created. Many breeders and vendors care immensely about the welfare of their animals. Some other breeders and vendors are looking to just sell every animal they have no matter what. In the past year I have been to a couple of shows in the US and have seen people buy SBP's, but so far I have never seen the vendor mention to the buyer that there was any potential of the snake having a neurological problem. Even when I have spoken to some breeders/vendors about me wanting to stay away from the spider gene some have told me that there is no risk to owning a SBP and that there is nothing wrong with the spider gene. One vendor I saw had a large variety of ball pythons and a few of them had obvious kinks to their tails. I was shocked to see that they marketed the snakes as "curly tailed (insert morph here)". This kind of business practice gives breeders/vendors a used car salesman image, which in the long run is damaging to the entire industry. I know that shows are a busy, hectic, and fast paced marketplace. But the buyer, who is often a child, is frequently so excited to get the animal they have been dreaming about for so long that even though they may have questions, those questions may get forgotten to be asked. Even worse is when the buyer, often an impulse buyer, doesn't know they should be asking those questions. An evasive seller can be setting the buyer up for a quick sale that very well could have disastrous results for the animal; neurological issues, metabolic bone disease, incorrect feeding and/or housing, co-habitation issues, early death of the animal, etc. or the buyer has an unrealistic expectation of that animal; adult size, handling issues, longevity, etc. So do I believe that spider ball pythons should be banned? Absolutely not. Does the buyer hold a lot of the responsibility to know what they are getting into before purchasing the animal. YES! Do I believe that buyers should be given the information about a species, breed or morph that is vital to the health and welfare of the animal? 100% Thank you for touching on this important and contentious topic. Rattle on!

Dav, I am glad you did this video. You have a great reputation in the hobby and, for a non-snake keeper like myself, I want to learn more and completely trust your unbiased opinion. Thanks!

I'm British and didn't even know we had that law about the Spider gene selling at expos. Personally I don't like the effect the gene has, it does create some beautiful snakes so it'll be people weighing up the look over the neurological cost of working with the gene. I've just got my first Royal/Ball Python and he is a pied as so far they are my favourite so I agree with you that they are amazing! Keep up the good work and fantastic content. Rattle On!

My sister in law has a ball python with the spider gene. We think a bumblebee but definitely has spider. She’s pretty mild, she can eat fine, doesn’t get stuck upside down but she does have a slight wobble. Her roommate has a male of the same. They got them from the same breeder before knowing the issues with spiders. My sister in law would LOVE to breed snakes, and though they have a mature pair in house, knowing the risks she’s refused to ever breed her snake. She decided the health of any snake she ever breeds in the future far outweighs its visual appeal, and I could not agree more.

I appreciate your opinion on spider ball pythons. And fwiw I don't own ball pythons and I don't have an opinion on whether or not they should be banned. But I do have a PhD in U.S. history. And the notion that the government banning the breeding of a particular morph would somehow be a violation of the founding principles of this country is off base. Laws against animal cruelty existed in the colonies. After independence, New York passed an animal cruelty law in the early 19th century, when some of the founders were still alive. Liberty was a key value for the framers of the constitution, but it was not an absolute one. Whether or not spider ball pythons should be banned cannot be resolved by invoking the Founding Fathers.

Yes please do more of these types of videos. I liked it very much

Very good video - better than almost all of the others I have seen on the topic. You put the facts out there in a concise and balanced way. I agree that bans are not a good solution, but I get really sick of some other youtubers that dance around the problems and try to rationalize that it's OK to propagate them. Much respect for your integrity.

Well after finishing this video I have to say, I couldn't agree more. My bamboo has like 25% spider in it and I will not be pairing it with a spider male. Great points and very well put

Nailed it Dave. I don't think young people now have a clear understanding of how individuals and organizations can make changes without the help of government legislation. You provided a great example of how one individual can impact the industry by simply deciding to produce or not produce a type of animal. If that choice makes sense to others then it will proliferate. If it doesn't make sense then it will still be your decision and your life will have changed in the direction that YOU CHOSE; not in a direction chosen FOR you. Thanks for the video!

Great video Dav thanks for your view on this beautiful gene... Keep up the great work and the kick ass content coming....

2 years later and the market continues to manage Spider without government intervention. A combo with Spider is typically cheaper than its non-Spider counterpart.

Excellently said. I've had a handful of spiders now and I've yet to see any issue with them, but as someone who's owned such a small number compared to people who've bred the gene for years, my scope on the situation is very narrow. It's the current climate in dogs and whether we should be banning tools or Greyhound racing or sledding and it's just such a slippery slope. I run my dogs on a treadmill but I'm not a dog fighter. I do schutzhund with my dogs, but they are not beaten into biting. It requires ethical and moral insight to decide what you, personally, are comfortable with, but you should not impart those on others or expect a governing body to impart those things on others. Thank you for your time and your opinion. It's good to hear from all sides, honestly, so we can all form our own opinions.

Amazing video. We should not allow there to be a ban on any morph of snake. Please do more videos like this. I love the knowledge you have of this and you genuinely care about the future of all of us reptile breeders. Thank you for everything you do. Keep it up Dav!

I love you and your work Kaufman, and I respect your opinion and decision to not breed spiders and other disabled morphs (I disagree with breeding super cinnysfor example), but because there are people who won't police themselves, I don't see any other option other than banning the sale of spiders at expos. People will still buy spiders if they dont care, and breeders can still breed them, but expos should not be involved in the sale and publc normalization of these disabled genes, because it's often at these expos that the gene is shown off, and a layperson wont know about the kinking or the neurological issues involved, and will instead just see a beautiful snake with a cute characteristic wobble. Removing them from expos seems like the best option right now, along with other dangerous morphs of geckos and snakes that get sold at these expos, and I feel strongly with having the health and safety of these animals over their beauty and worth.

Love this! Great video Dav, thank you for spreading awareness!

Glad to see another great video from you. Hope you had a great New Year.

Buddy it was very nice to see you @ Anaheim happy new year and you did change my mind about the spider morph. 1st time breeding this morph even one of the normal one had a little kink in it no more spider breeding for me and don't ban it you just going to open new can of worms

Freedom to do as we wish is best. We as a community just need to weed out the bad apples

Excellent share!