Thank you for this video. I'm thinking if installing some hall effect sticks in my Scuf Instinct, and this helped me to understand that the lack of perfect circularity in most hall effect sticks isn't actually that important.
Very good visual and theoretical explanation. It aligns with my observations over the years of repairing controllers. Because of the constraints put in place by the manufacturers, e.g., analogue module calibration burned into firmware, I have found that the new module must be mechanically zeroed out (flat, flush, and physically centred in the shell) before any calibration can be done. With the dawn of these hall effect analogues, this is even more important since you have to fight the imperfections from the factory calibration. Getting the analogues centred to within 3% (mechanical tolerances and wear are the limiting factors) and getting even full 45- or 90-degree extreme bounds is the biggest issue. I've noticed the likes of SCUF just have a wider opening and some others have a narrower stalk on the cap to overcome this issue, but as a trade-off, the stick travel is over-streched and 100% is achieved way before the boundary simalure to the hall effect sticks with no calibration board installed.
ahh wanted to know that only., bought a cheap controller [ about 20-30$ ] and it was having same 10-15%, but another of the same one has 4-5% error. you resolved it for me, thanks alot!
There are some controllers with hall effect analogue sticks such as the gulikit kingkong pro 2 and I believe one of the 8bitdo ultimate variants. Very good, less than 1% error on those sticks even after a lot of wear.
I bought Ultimate bluetooth and tested it: left 12% 13% right 16% 17. Some quality issues around the analog plastic edges. Unfortunately, it's not a physically perfect circle. Maybe if I mount a nicely cut ptfe plastic around the analog surround, I think I can get a circle that is both super slick and faultless.
Gamesir t4 kaleid has 2 deadzone options with their hall effect sticks, max 100% and raw. 100% keeps to the circle (0.3% error), raw goes all the way (~10% error). I upgraded from the 8bitdo ult bluetooth (trigger plunger failed 6 months in, doesn't hit 100% RT without teardown fix). 1000hz is a big difference too, more responsive.
@@cem1221 update your firmware the previous one had a glitch that increase error rate. I fixed this myself by returning to the original firmware but they literally just released a new one 2 days ago that fixed joystick accuracy. Error rate is down to 7-8% and I am performing sooo much better and consistent in Apex now.
@@notchipotle update your firmware. The previous version messed up the joystick accuracy. Either the newest firmware, the oldest one or second to the oldest. The third firmware update is the one with the issue and the 4th that just came out 2 days ago fixed joystick accuracy. I'm down to 7-8% on mine.
This was a great, informative video. I recently saw a number of circularity tests on Gamepad Tester when watching reviews of controllers, and got very focused in on that (& how the controllers I was looking at scored in that), but this helped calm that. This, and just realizing that the controller I'm replacing (after 20 months, the wireless dongle failed and the chinese 3rd party has almost zero support) scored 17-18% (although a great center, 0.00002 +/-)....but I never really felt it performed poorly (in fact, I'm debating whether to replace, or just deal with playing wired, b/c I've really liked it). I don't play competitively, or even online at all. The dead-zone remarks re. Xbox Series here made me start worrying about that, too (since that was one of the final contenders), but I should probably ignore that, too, for the same reason.
I haven't used a Series controller, but I've heard about the deadzone issues a few times. I can't speak on that at all, but hopefully that's not an issue. Some players have used 'deadzone' to mean the stick gets loose quick though. An actual inherent deadzone would be a large step back over the Xbox One controllers.
What's the proper term when your issue is more with it hitting green rather than Red? As in the controller doesn't go all the way to 100% but around 60% for a second or two before shifting to 100%, causing issues in Hogwarts Legacy and just curious on the name for it.
I've been searching for a long time on how to make it so that my controller's analog sticks trace a circle instead of a square and I came across this video of yours. Now I would like to know, how would I go about doing what you did in the video to achieve a circular output? (I'm using a wired Xbox 360 Controller by the way)
Making the input trace a circle is mostly superficial. I used a script for the TitanTwo adapter in this video for it, and a similar script can be used for the TitanOne and Cronus adapters. Those are pricey, but the only way to get that on console. On PC, I've heard reWASD's virtual controller emulation outputs perfect circularity, but that's the only program I'm aware that can do that for Xbox controllers. I think virtual controller emulation is part of its free license. DS4Windows can do that for PlayStation ones with its force output toggle.
Nothing useful from me. I don't own either Elite controller, and the descriptions I've found for those options aren't clear. I can find anyone giving a clear comparison of the stick movement to give a good gauge of it. My only guess is Radial and True Diagonals apply the curve from the center, but radial locks the outer range to a circle(like I did at the beginning of this video for perfect circularity). True diagonals would be best if that were the case. Axis Independent could have the curve applied for each axis separately, which would skew the angular movement. I had made a visual to demonstrate those suggestions, but don't know if any are accurate: www.desmos.com/calculator/ngz75fntl9 If you own the controller, maybe you could see if any of the calculations seem like they match the movement on that graph.
@@EternalDahaka Thank you for your answer. Yes , it seems to me that the True Diagonals is more precise, specially in games with bad stick implementation (like RE:VII). I thought it was a placebo.
I got this situation while I'm moving my sticks. When they are crossing axis (x or y) they kinda cling to axis, and after some further movement they detach from axis. As i can see from your video, your sticks don't have such behavior. Yours kinda move smooth through the axis. Mine not. What do you think that is?
That's caused by the sticks having/outputting an axial deadzone, or a curve being applied separately to the x/y axes. You can tell if it's a deadzone issue if you make small movements and neither x/y values change, and when moving past an axis one will stay the same until you pass out of the deadzone. The Logitech f310 does this. If the axes are altered to follow some curve, then you'll see values changing, but will slow down around near the axes since that's the slower end of the curve. The Afterglow 360 controller does this. What controller are you using? I don't have an official 360 controller anymore to compare, but I used an Xbox One controller in this video, and PS4 controllers function the same.
Hey bro, what program did you use to have less % on the circularity ? Im having a problem with my new xbox series x controller. When I want to move the stick in an absolute straight line along the x or y axis, it tilts slightly up or down, which is a problem when playing Rocket League because I can't make perfectly linear side turns. It's really sad because in my country it was very hard for me to afford this original joystick, and I bought it to be able to play Rocket League. Is there a program that can help force the axes to be more linear?
I used a script for the TitanTwo adapter. I just clamped the stick values past 100% to get the circularity to 0%. There is no benefit in doing that, since the "real" error is still there, just hidden from gamepad-tester. Higher circularity was supposedly better in Rocket League anyway, at least before they added sensitivity options. I haven't tested Rocket League, but another user made a great tool showing the deadzone and dodge thresholds for it. The deadzone there is axial, so if you raise the deadzone size it will increase the ranges that you move perfectly left/right/up/down. It works with controllers so increase the deadzone enough so you can make perfectly horizontal movements easily. halfwaydead.gitlab.io/rl-deadzone/
Hi where can I get the software? I'm using a Flydigi Apex 4 but I can't be precise in the micro movements because they are too sensitive and I would like to calibrate it
The only controller software used in this video is a script for the TitanTwo to clamp the maximum range for 0% circularity error. That's a pricey device($140) if there are other options. If you're playing on PC, you might try running games with Steam's Input customization and edit an output curve that can help with the micromovements.
Do you know if the Dualsense works based on the same Axis-Independent calculation as the Xbox controller? Because I have notice that on RE titles looks like the deadzone is circular compared to the rounded square on Xbox. Even on the last RE:4 demo that came out yesterday I can tell the difference between controllers.
I don't have a DualSense to test but as far as I'm aware it functions the same as the DS4, and that registered the same as the XboxOne/Series controllers. Altering the curve by axis wouldn't create full angular restriction like the axial deadzones even if it felt like it. Do you play on PC? I've heard RE8 used a circular deadzone on PS4, so I assume it might be more an issue with the versions having different deadzones for whatever reason. Maybe on PC they might swap the controller too? I only have RE2R on PC, and that uses a circular deadzone for Xbox controllers though.
@@EternalDahaka Yes, but I currently do not have that game for PC. I have noticed that the RE games have different deadzones for PS and Xbox for some reason.
I once soldered a xbox potentiometer on the dualshock and it made fps games unplayable on ps4, Diagonal movement was out of control. How does pc games handle different cotrollers? Do you think they account for the difference in circularity?
That's interesting. I wonder what could be outputting when doing that. I have seen some replacement modules that were said to work in either controller, but I've never soldered one myself to see how that might function. Games that support different controllers have things standardized. Their default resolution will be converted to -1 to 1 like with this testing program. Some controllers aren't natively supported, and drivers are available to use them(earlier Sony, Nintendo controllers). These many/may not be coupled with wrappers that will translate the input, normally into Xbox inputs since that's the most commonly supported.
Gamesir t4 kaleid has a raw mode and a regular mode that either has 10+% error and then 0.3% error. So that's achieved through software? Is there a downside to using the 0.3%?
There's no downside to using the 0.3% error version as long as the game's thresholds are within that range. These Reddit posts are very detailed on the Gamesir G7 with some images of its output and a quicker earlier issue with the T4. I don't know if the modes differ between models, but the 'raw' mode in G7 seems also artificial in their case, but gives you more diagonal range anyway. www.reddit.com/r/Controller/comments/14t4hyl/psa_careful_about_gamesir_hall_effect_controllers/ www.reddit.com/r/Controller/comments/157h6u0/circularity_explained_and_a_note_on_gamesir_g7_se/
I had stick drift and got it fixed at a shop, but then now there was a noticeable difference in playing fps games. Tracking was almost impossible. I checked the circularity error, and while the stick drift was gone, it was 25% on both sticks. What would be the reason for this error?
What was the shape of the range to get that error? Is the stick still able to move consistently outside the circle? ~21% is the max I could get it by hitting the full square range range. I can't really say much beyond that. If it leans further outside the module than it did before the module or stick covers could be different. Otherwise can I ask what values the stick centers at? I don't now how deadzones are applied to controllers themselves, but if the stick values are something like 0.00392 or 0.00002 there's a deadzone applied. Possible the firmware or calibration of the sticks are messed up and the deadzone would hide it in that case. That would affect general stick movements but I can't be sure that's the issue.
A controller will be calibrated specifically with the joysticks that are installed during the manufacturing. When you replace the joysticks, there's no real way to redo the calibration outside of installing hall effect joysticks with a calibration board. Some controllers come with software that allow you to recalibrate the circularity and If I'm not mistaken the dual sense edge can be calibrated on the ps5.
For perfect circularity I used a TitanTwo in this video. On PC, if you have a PlayStation controller, you can use DS4Windows and toggle 'Force Max Output'. If you have other controllers, I believe reWASD can do this when creating an emulated controller, but I don't know if you need to buy the license for it.
@@EternalDahaka any thoughts about dualshock3 or xbox 360 controler??...is there some software for ....i found that in cemu emulator when choose gamepad and configure sticks draws circles...but i cant find any softare like this
I used my antideadzone script for the TitanTwo to force perfect circularity. If you have a PlayStation controller you could do this through DS4Windows and use the Force toggle. I believe reWASD natively does that with its virtual controller for Xbox controllers, but I think that requires the paid license.
I got something else. When my Xbox controller using a axial deadzone and I hop on Warzone, apex and these games use an radial deadzone what happens then ? Do we get an Radial deadzone cuz the game or the backed Xbox axial deadzone ????
Sorry I didn't get to your other comment on this. If the controller uses axial deadzones, and the game uses radial ones, both will overlap. It'll functionally be like a rounded square deadzone(Destiny example at 6:46), but you wouldn't actually see the axial deadzone since none of that input would come from the controller. You'd first break out of the controller's axial deadzone, and then out of the game's radial one, so the deadzone would be larger. You'd be able to easily see it if you push the stick fully up/down and slide the stick left and right. In Apex and Warzone, you should see it change left/right instantly once you pass the axis, but if the controller has an axial deadzone, you'll have to move quite a bit either way before you see left/right movements happen. If you want to see if the controller has an axial deadzone in gamepad-tester.com, you can slowly rotate the stick in a circle, and see if it stops on the axes a bit. This is a visualization of that happening with a set 25% axial deadzone. You can see how it locks to the axes until you move the stick enough. www.desmos.com/calculator/55h2clrzj7 (drag the 'stick position' node around)
@@EternalDahaka ohh ok, so In Apex or Warzone let’s say withe an very low deadzone what I use (2%) and I play an low Response curve it’s not that dramatic right ? Yeah the new series x controller use axial deadzone to. But why Microsoft I’m general use axial deadzone I don’t get it. Everybody say that Radial is just better. When I move straight left and right I don’t feel a different but moving to 1-2 o clock or 4,5 o clock etc… than it’s different on Xbox pads…makes no sens to me why they use that. And people showcase that the Xbox Thumbstick module) are very inaccurate is that cuz the Deadzone or cuz Xbox pads run withe only 125hz poling rate not like ps4/5 withe 250hz ?
@@hayvanejones8791 If the controller is using an axial deadzone, and you set the game deadzone lower to none, then the size will be smaller, but you'd still get the same restricted angles. Again I can't say if/why Microsoft would use axial deadzone since I've never used the Series controllers. Xbox One controllers didn't have any deadzones applied, and I can't see a difference between how my Xbox One thumbstick angles register compared to my Dual Shock 4. I've seen some tests saying Xbox stick values are inconsistent, but I'm not sensitive enough to notice it. Xbox's lower polling rate could drop some inputs in comparison PlayStation's faster ones with very fast movements which I'd guess is probably the problem for that specifically. I don't know about the anything about actual difference in the quality of the modules.
@@EternalDahaka ohh interesting. So they don’t have an inherent axial deadzone ? I though Xbox rollers do have an inherent deadzone. But people always say the sticks are inaccurate and not responding well. I mean they have 124hz response time, ps4,5 got 250 hz so it’s a cut in half that’s it’s big. That’s maybe the reason and you can’t overclock them but why is Microsoft doing this it makes no sens. The Xbox trustmaster eswap s is great on 280hz (show on my screen) he’s 2.8ms lowest and 3.4 highest. Ps5 roller to. Xbox series x is like 3.3,5 and max is 8,5. withe 124hz. Now I understand better. But still I asked one yt who explained settings halo…forgot the name and he said all Xbox controller use an Axial deadzone…🤔🤔 and one more guy who said that the eswap s on Xbox is the only one who don’t have the weird feeling. Ds4 windows is the only one who show that the Xbox controller is inaccurate.
@@hayvanejones8791 I watched a video where a RU-vidr mention that Xbox controllers use axial deadzones, but none of the official 360 or One controller I have do. Maybe the were basing it off the axis independent/radial/true diagonals descriptions on the Elite controller or the Series controller or other 3rd party models. Again, haven't touched those so it could have, but it would be a dumb move by Microsoft if they did. Usually only crappy 3rd party controllers tend to add deadzones you can't remove.
Hi mate, did you ever try apex legend ? Or Fortnite ? I saw you’re vids and they are interesting. I bought a series x bevor 1 week and I’m really unhappy what I’m reading on the Internet about Xbox series /one controllers. They say they use axial deadzone and the sticks are inaccurate withe fast sens/moving. I always played on a ps2/3/4 pad and I noticed a high imput delay on apex legends but I found out that’s the game himself but on the other games I found that my aim was off. So I’m really not sure about this and how it’s work but I saw pros using Xbox elite 1/2 controller on Fortnite and they won millions withe this. Elite 2 can changed to Radial deadzone…..if they do it I don’t know and they on pc so they maybe using tools like you 🤷🏻🤷🏻 I really wanna keep the Series x instead of the ps5 but this is not acceptable for fps games, which I play. On Apex I use a middle sens no extra ramp up/delay stuff like on Fortnite Apex really low deadzone but I can handle stickdrift on Apex and a quick response curve 6. Fortnite I use Liniar curve I hope you can bring some light cuz I’m extremely lost at the moment.
Unfortunately I'm not sure how much I can help. I've tried Fortnite and Apex around their launches and both games used radial deadzones. I've never used the Series controller, but I've heard some of those complaints on it. Adding a deadzone to a controller is poor practice, at least without offering options. If you have access to any PC or laptop, you can use the shown gamepad-tester.com to see if there are inherent axial deadzones(you should see values change with _any_ stick movement-especially around the axes). I'm not sensitive to how accurately fast stick movements are translated so I'm no help there. The descriptions for the Elite controller settings is pretty vague, but radial sounds more likely like how the curve options it has are applied rather than a deadzone. I haven't used an Elite controller either to know for sure, but my guess is 'radial' caps the input to the circle like I've shown in this video, 'true diagonals' is normal excess movement, and 'axis-independent' applies the curve separately between for each axis rather than by the magnitude. I made a graph demonstrating my estimate on how they might work, but that's just a guess: www.desmos.com/calculator/ucmdokytkt Adapters/scripts like I use only work if the controller doesn't have an inherent deadzone so either that's not an issue with the controllers, or they're winning despite that.
@@EternalDahaka thanks for the explanation. So Warzone (I saw that on you’re channel) and you said Fortnite, Apex used Radial deadzone….what if the controller himself is using a axial how is the controller effected ? I heard somebody saying that axial deadlines are backed into the controller. But on Warzone I don’t see a different while moving, Fortnite is hard to say even I use there Linear. I only can say that my Ps4 controller on my ps4 on the same games feel different. But I maybe trippen. I don’t think that Fortnite pros using scripts to change tha deadzone they just reduce imput lag withe ds4 and using a lot fps so it’s lower in general.
Most of these are the default sticks. My normal Xbox One controller is super worn down. That was the issue with the replacement stick covers I got(just a pack off Amazon). They are too thick, and I couldn't hit 100% in one direction on each stick. The stick you've gotten may be the same. Probably have to file them down to get it to tilt fully.
Software correction is pretty superficial, but you can do this DS4Windows and using the force toggle with the max output. Just check the hide controller toggle(or use HidHide if that doesn't work) so the normal controller and virtual controller don't both output at the same time..
