Bugs are fine, exploits that trivialize the dungeon are not. That's the difference. If you made it this far: Pls watch my stream: / tettles Pls join my discord: / discord Patreon - / moonkinmonthly
Glad you are making a video of this, feel like lots of stuff like this goes under the radar and it never gets reprimanded. So big thanks to you tettles again ❤
i think a 24 hour suspension would be literally pointless, atleast make it like a week, enough to punish them but not enough for them to be seriously fucked over by it. I want them to have to go up to their gm/raid leader and say "hey sorry i cant come to raid this week cuz im banned for exploiting in m+"
I saw something similar in one of Yoda pug runs, havoc dh, probably accidentaly, did 100m with ragefire on one of the last packs. I thought it was just a bug, but it seems similar with what Tettles showing here.
Anything short of a 2 week ban wouldnt be enough imo. 72 hr is still just a slap on the wrist and not nearly enough to deincentivize someone from doing it again when something like this arises again in the future. like you said, this isnt something you accidentally do, its an intentional abuse of a mechanic that is very clearly unintended and broken.
How about locking them out from getting score from the dungeon for the rest of the season? Like basically lowering their overall score by an 8th for the rest of the season.
I blame Blizzard more than anyone. It's beyond asinine that they don't fix these bugs before even going live, let alone letting them linger *after* being reported on live. Just look at MoP remix right now and the frog farming controversy. They just don't care anymore and it's beyond evident.
@@Neokain yeah like the one in dawn of the infinite? I'm pretty sure blizzard didn't know about the portal bug, that's why they're approved. What a moronic take by you
Seems like they should invest in a systemic solution to the whole “abusing external mechanics to cheese dungeons” cause this keeps happening and imo patching out specific exploits is just putting a bandaid over a bullet wound. Wow at this point is so old and has so many weird one off mechanics that there are probably hundreds of broken exploits just waiting for someone to find them. To me it seems like it would be better to try and implement systems that prevent exploits from actually doing anything, i.e. preventing damaging abilities from doing more than 25x their tooltip value, flagging auras as belonging to a specific dungeon and clearing all other auras that shouldn’t be in the dungeon, limiting overkill damage to like 50% of an enemies health bar to prevent shared/stored damage effects from accumulating massive damage from enemies with tiny health bars (like critters). Im dumb and these probably wouldn’t work but it has to be more efficient than fixing these exploits every month or so
The problem with mass patching exploits is finding them/recognizing the potential for exploitation in a nearly 20 year old code base/game. Even if it was well documented/commented, the sheer size and patchwork nature of something like that would make it a nightmare, not to mention the requisite comprehensive game knowledge required to not make it worse.
I'd actually be really interested in a Torghast powers video - seems like that's still a problem, but I don't know how they could even do it. Sneaking a buff out with a Pet maybe?
I think the torghast people deserve bans. But the critter stuff doesn’t rise to that level. The critters are actually, intentionally in the dungeon. This is 10000% blizzard’s fault. If you don’t want to deal with weird stuff, don’t include them. If you want them there aesthetically, don’t give them a health bar. This is purely a blizzard issue
I am not in favor of bans as there isn't anything that creates an unfair advantage in terms of a major competition (i.e: race to world first). I would just remove their completion for that run (remember, it is all just rows of data in a DB) and fix the bug. Some of these exploits are such insane edge cases that I, as an engineer, can't help but applaud their absolutely degeneracy. This is technically not an exploit because it is using the spell AS INTENDED. The issue here is how scaling works, it is just an oversight on Blizzard's end. This is like being mad if a mage could spell steal some sort of ability that causes them to get like 100% haste for the whole run. It is an oversight on Blizzard's end. A proper bannable exploit would be negating an entire boss's mechanic by somehow glitching yourself in such a way tht regular play wouldn't allow for it. As in, you had to go out of your way to break it. This is just using the spec's mechanics.
I disagree about only giving 24/48/72hr bans. Stuff like torghast abuse is deliberate and should be at least a 7-day ban. The same goes for the critter stuff; once it is a mistake, twice is a conscious decision.
Blizzard has been known to not really punish exploiters. Hence the saying exploit early, exploit often. They NEVER remove the rewards even if there's a suspension so in general it's worth the ban.
I would see this as the same as snapping mobs, it is the same principle, you kind of abuse of the fact that mob can be "teleported" to have them packed and done together to "save" time. This is not even using external power, they just use a talent of priest (not only priest works on this apparently according to WOWHEAD post) and therefore it is more of a blizzard issue of not scaling those critters, they should have fixed it when it was reported long ago, but now that they have realized people are actually using to time keys that fast, then it is an issue. Still believe they shouldnt be punished in game, rather get their run nremoved so they would still have to work hard to get the same run again but with no extra SP damage. That would allow you to see the real gamers...XD
I will say as one of the players who logged the run, we intentionally logged the run so that blizzard could have more actual and detailed data of this happening. We also all stopped before the last boss to submit a detailed report of how and what was occurring to Blizzard through their website. I don't really care if i get banned or get title taken away etc but that was the intention there. I believe the run was also streamed so im suprised you couldn't get footage from that but yeah anyway glad it got fixed so quickly and think its totally fair to take the runs down etc.
I normally don't like to comment on this sort of stuff, but as Cyteriz pointed out, why would you gatekeep the VOD to subs only if your intention was to give blizzard more detailed footage about the bug? Emigossa didn't even create a clip of the bug happening so that it could be showcased to non-subs. I don't have anything against anyone in your group, but this doesn't make sense to me
@@baym73 I didn't realize she had vods in sub only honestly. I agree a clip would have been best but at this point the issue was resolved so it's a bit of a moot point
@@QueenXtine Gotcha, that makes sense, and I totally forgot you could just download your own twitch VODs which I did myself when I uploaded my Underrot last year haha. Sorry if my comment came across as a challenge, I just wanted to hear your perspective because I knew that you wouldn't intentionally use the exploit. I sometimes hyper-fixate too much on minor details.
i see where you're coming from re: banning but this feels like a grey area at best to me. they didn't bring any outside buffs, or use any weird toy gimmicks or anything, they just understood that critters take a huge damage multiplier for some reason (seriously, why is this? is it due to the level squish/scaling stuff?) and took advantage. i definitely think the scores should be invalidated and removed, but i dont think this is particularly banworthy given some of the stuff we've seen not receive a ban over the years.
Yes it is because of the level squish/scaling shit. People would cheese duels outside Org with shit like that to one shot people. If they wanted to be firm on people not abusing shit, ban them for the season and if they do it again just perma. Ain't got no place in a competitive scene.
I think that opinion is totally valid as well. It's more just super annoying that it's happening a few times a season now. Exploit early exploit often as they say.
You don’t think logging the key and making a video is actually helping the community by showcasing it and forcing blizzard to react? If it’s not completed like the one video you showed, will blizzard even notice or care? Idk, seems like just removing the run and fixing the issue is the best way to go about it.
This isnt even a super creative bug or anything. At the creation of psychic link some dev says: "yo hold up what if we make it so that it links damage you deal to others?" And a natural question would be "what if you damage a low level mob and crit really high?" But i guess none plays the game to asks those questions :D
Wow I was always watching the spriest Emigossa because I thought wow nice work dope routes. Now they just pushing IO while exploiting… Blizzard should ban those players for a month at least..
I think the people exploiting this should have a short ban. Except for the guys in the video, they clearly intended to showcase the exploit but not actually benefit from it.
I mean, they shouldn't be banned, nothing was really exploited but what was given to them inside the dungeon. If Blizzard fucks up to fix a BUG that THEY KNEW ABOUT. Well, that's on them.
Blizzard isn't the victim, it's the other players who won't get the title because these guys are. World firsts that are stolen. It's cheating and they know it yet they still do it. A 4 yr old could tell that wasn't intended. Idk why blizz hasn't fixed it but that doesn't in anyway validate it
@@governmentghost01 Who said Blizz is the victim? It's a fucking shithole of an organization. They don't fix ANYTHING, just like they wont fix their broken and abused report system. People are ganging up to ban people left and right. They're even silencing anyone who tries to out it as well.
Removing their ability to get title across their entire account for the season would honestly hit them where it hurts most. Week ban, cannot earn title.
Kind of tragic when the desire to win become stronger than the desire to win fairly. Because what is the point of winning, if you need to cheat to win? The moment the decision to cheat is made the win has absolutely no meaning and you just became a pathetic loser in the eyes of the rest of the competitive landscape. Pushing the boundaries is ofc natural in order to try and get an edge at the very highest on the ladder, but something like this is clearly over the line.
Blizzard needs to hit them hard, not because I think it's really that big of a deal, but the M+ community needs the same chilling effect that the raid community has about exploits, make people think twice about it. 3 month ban, title can't obtained, etc. Something big so people stop playing around with it.
When you said ragefire got fixed in 20 minutes, and then when psychic link got reported and didnt get fixed. I laughed so hard because it just confirmed they dont give a shit about shadow priest. I know this is all pve content but i'm a pvp'r and they wont fix literally anything wrong with shadow priest in pvp. So i had a laugh thanks.
Banning is not an option, think about it they found a glitch in the game fair play to them and they exploited, blizzard should fix it and remove their point from raider to, that's it, they were smart that's all, bann people who leave the group midkey at least for 24hrs, Echo exploited plague boars but it was OK at the time :) that exploited made it possible for them to +2 PF during competition
They shouldnt be banned. They didnt use anything external, only the tools blizz provide em. If they are incobitent to make a spell shouldnt ban players, only the developers not doing their job
punish them for what? for the game being programmed bad? lol Wtf there is the point to have such a mob you can 1 shot that is basically a pet in M+ when you have class like SP have spell like Psysic link xD
They won’t ban anyone. They should, but they won’t. They might remove the runs. But unless it was logged, streamed, how can they prove the runs were abused? A smart group could just wait until 5 minutes left on key, and then kill last boss Edit: I’m pretty sure Emmigosa’s group logged it and streamed it on purpose to show the exploit to blizzard and make it more well known. Not trying to “get away with it”. They still shouldn’t have completed the dungeon tho…
I always have and always will disagree that players should be punished for a Blizzard oversight by a ban of any kind as long as its not directly hindering anyone else game play. Im fine with them removing the score and any loot received and resetting the key back to what it was before any exploits were acted on. Otherwise you are calling for everyone that farmed frogs in MoP Remix to receive the same ban. I ask you. Tettles, is that what you are calling for?
I actually haven't looked into the remix frog farm stuff too much, so I don't know exactly what theyre doing. I tend to think rollbacks are normally the most effective method of punishing clearly unintended bullshit. Seemed pretty good to remove the seed exploiters on Amirdrassil launch. If they just removed the scores off the leaderboard it's also fine for this, but this + the torghast stuff in tandem is pretty fking annoying.
@@Tettles what they did from what i can see is they farmed extremely high respawn rate mobs that buffed their cloak to where they can now solo heroic raids in the Remix. Blizzard has let the players keep the power but fixed the farm exploit.
@@goodthings7317 it was just a normal hyperspawn, where the mobs dropped the charms that you could turn in for the rerolls, which gave an extra chest. How is it an exploit to just farm mobs for their normal loot?
This isn't a bannable offense or an exploit. Its cheese, for sure, but Psychic Link is working as intended, and the liability is on Blizzard for adding critters into the dungeons without considering this possibility. The players obviously did not go 'out of their way' in doing this (duh, the critters are right next to the trash and bosses). Blizzard should thank them for finding the bug and remove the runs from the leaderboard. Your strong views on banning players for these kinds of 'opportunities' are harsh and misplaced. I can see that others here agree that banning is inappropriate. If I were you, I would consider how your opinions might be a turn off for some of your viewers.
As much as it's annoying, it shows how fokin boring the keys get after a certain level. People need to find exploit to have 3 ***. I mean , it exist and you never can reach it, than why creating it Bliz? :/ But honestly, it's not really an exploit...they just use their spells. Don't like it? Ask blizzard to remove critters in the dungeons, that simple.
Why is it that you are so quick to decide what is the strategy and what is something that invalidates the run? Are critters in dungeons and new thing? Did they use a third-party software in order to get this done? They used what blizzard gave them to their advantage. Seems like people are more salty because they didn’t think of it first.
It’s a game who cares. I mean fix the bugs yeah, but I’m not going to villainize someone and call them a piece of shit for using an “exploit” that anyone else could have used.
I Say no ban is fine. this is a mistake on blizzard and the code to psychic link. if anything there runs should just be removed from the leaderboard and that be all.
How can this be bannable? They didn't do anything wrong! Why is the critter there? If you want to sanction someone, sanction the level designer! Whoever believes otherwise is a bum!
Banned is funny. At worst this is on blizzard especially in this case because they rectified this with another mechanic. This was easily testable. Chill a little bit.
IMO they should get their runs removed from leaderboard+ not get title this season, and probably a competitive ban from all upcoming events for like a year or smth?
I suppose Blizzard have often had a generous line between "Exploit" and "Clever Use of Game Mechanics", so down to them to determine what they consider this to be. That said, I do believe that if players are found to be exploiting in M+, they should have all M+ achievements and rewards for that season removed from their account - don't just take the 1% title, but the other title and mount as well - and make that account wide stripping and ineligible to get them for the rest of the season. Then if they're found to do it again, life ban /shrug
Cheaters in any aspect of any game need to be perma banned period. We saw people get long bans back in Shadowlands for using an xp pot to level faster, why is Blizzard not being more heavy handed with punishments?
I have different opinion. If something ( a bug) is in the game, using it is fine. It's on the devs to fix it. Why are players dishonorable if they use something that's already in game? Is it mentioned somewhere in TOS that you should not use psycic link like this?
You don't get your monthly subscription back when the games buggy, broken or not what they promised. Nobody should be getting banned for Mind Blasting a rat. I didn't even know it was a thing but it's hilarious to see. It's about having fun and finding something like this out and doing it is fun. Fix it, remove the logs , leave the players who enjoy your success and failures alone.
white hat hackers GET PAID for exploiting weaknesses in systems and you are suggesting that people who find these exploits and have some fun with them should be banned? It's not the players' fault that blizz developers suck. Surely, their run should be removed from rio, but thinking of banning them is disgusting. i have less and less respect towards blizzard recently even though i have been playing WoW for ages, and now this stupid idea of instant punishment instead of a fkin Thank you letter for helping them making the game better and more fair.
No one respects this game anymore. We need a new version of WoW, since we're making new versions left and right now, where anything goes, call it WoW Unhinged or something. Let everyone run around in it one shotting everything and lets just see how long the game mode lasts. Let the gear ilvl scale up infinitely and let people pick every single talent in the trees.
Let's be honest, abusing ingame stuff has literally become so stupid, you can always argue that stuff lays somewhere between "cool stuff" or "abusing exploits" - Blizzard actually removed Snaps back in BfA, because they didn't want it to happen - WHAT happened? Oh true, Snapping so much and calling it "nice strat". Liquid literally had people talent into bugged talents ABUSING bugs so they could have more dps in awakened vault first week. Do they get banned? No they dont, because "well its liquid, they would have killed it anyway" - what is this argumentation? either its abusing bugs and its bannable regardless of who does it, in mdi / great push / race to world first or whereever. obviously it's not intended to work that critters interact with the key giving an easier time, but that was already in shadowlands the same with people using spider sacks or mushrooms to fill the soul cages up in Halls of Atonement. You cant say "well its clever use of game mechanic" on the one hand, but on the other "yeah, that's so stupid, it should be banned" - mythic+ on the highest level sadly is just about finding abuses (another one weyrnstone on brackenhide 2nd boss, so lets ban everyone doing high keys) its not an exploit if u dont have to do anything to achieve it. that thing you highlighted in the video is a bug, happening in the game - on the same level as bugged talents doing more dmg than they should or using weyrnstone to negate a boss ability in bracken.
