@@sophym3990 clearly theirs a advantage. If you ever was a pro track athlete like a am you would know, at that level no one tops the rest of the field at that rate…. Question.. How much do you really know about track if you was very a professional Athlete and know the secrets??
@@sophym3990 clearly theirs a advantage. If you ever was a pro track athlete like a am you would know, at that level no one tops the rest of the field at that rate…. Question.. How much do you really know about track if you was very a professional Athlete and know the secrets??
It is not all athletes with higher testosterone levels that perform at an elite level. What at all is wrong with having a natural advantage. Should athletes who genetically do not get tired easily be put in a 'robot' category because they have an advantage? Come on...
@@HoveringAfrica We divided athletics between men and women to give a chance to the low testosterone level women. If high testosterone women want to compete they can go into the Men's high testosterone division. Some have internal testes like a rooster. Hovering Africa - is a rooster not a male?
Firstly we would not be having this discussion had they been running for the United States, the UK or some other western country. What about men that naturally produce more testosterone? What about people having some other naturally occurring ability or affinity for some sport? Do you try to ban them all or give them some supplement to alter their physiology? Madness.
Rather than creating your own parochial narrative on this situation perhaps it will shock you that this is not new in woman’s track and field. It's been going on since 1930s....From Foekje Dillema , Irena Press, Tamara Press, Stanislawa Walasiewicz, Ewa Klobukowska, Dora Ratjen, Dutee Chand , Maria Jose Martinez-Patino, Amongst others were subjected to this situation. It may pain you to know that none were from the African continent!! Happy to list more names
I heard those people in the USA start running in big numbers just as soon as they learn how to walk. If they did have two athletes like this and the IOC wanted to ban them then they will have plenty more people available to run who don't have any issues like that. That was the wrong country to use as an example here.
@@edwardjones717 I'm not quite sure I understand what you are saying. Are you suggesting these Namibian or toehr female athletes with difference in sexual development have not been practicing their entire lives? Personally I don't know enough about them to say that.
@@danielgreen1475 No I'm saying if these girls are banned then Namibia don't have anymore that can take their place but USA does. The USA has some of the most competitive runners in the world. FloJo could out run both of those girls in the 200m.
@Daniel Green The level of testosterone is important to be qualified for entrance in to Women's Events. That is because normal women do not produce high levels of testosterone. That fact is why they separated athletics events into Men's and Women's divisions in the first place. Having whatever level of testosterone does not affect a male's status. They are males and qualify for the Men's Events regardless simply because it is assumed, unless they are taking artificial steroids, (which are tested for and banned) that they will have varying amounts of testosterone in their systems even during a single day.
We from Jamaica love them. What the IOC and Sebastian Coe should be worrying about is the athletes who are born men that they allow to compete as "WOMEN" in the Olympics. Like that New Zealand man who they allowed to compete in Weight lifting. That man could have won that competition if he wanted. He just DIDN'T TRY.
We from South Africa appreciate the support from our fellow African diaspora brother's and sister's whole heartedly..they can't cope with our excellence..well done to the Jamaican queen's 👑 for Killin the sprint's..we shall rise as One soon
@@User_Happy35and JustCallMeDom Exactly. Very succinct and to the point. Either let all women up their testosterone or don't allow any testosterone above normal levels for women at all. The very reason they separated the events between men and women is because the high testosterone levels of men give them a big advantage. Letting "hi test" individuals compete against "low test" individuals is just not fair to the vast majority of women . . . African women included. It's like letting cars with turbo charged engines race against stock cars with normal engines.
We specifically devised separate divisions so that women would have a fairer chance to succeed. It is not the orifice that determines gender but the gonads, generally, but more specifically, testosterone levels that determine such secondary sex characteristics such as muscularity. Muscularity is what generally gives high testosterone individuals more speed and power. Therefore those with high testosterone levels are on a different level and need a different and separate category for competitions. Otherwise, millions of women with lower levels of testosterone will have little chance to grace the podium with their achievements. THIS IS UNFAIR AND TRAGIC!
To compete in women's events how can you think it is fair to allow DSD athletes in who often have levels of testosterone as high as most men have? Should we just throw out the notion of making opportunities available to normal level T women?
@@vernonfrance2974 and how about being a athlete from developed countries where you have better training system and immense support from government. Isn't unfair for the athletes who r from poor country?
@@kouspeak Dear Kaushik, You are certainly correct that there are many things about that that are very unfair. Many potential greats from developing countries do not get proper prenatal care, proper nutrition or medical attention during their developmental years, and as you say, they often have less adequate training systems and in some cases lack governmental support systems. The USA's colleges and universities as in many economically prosperous nations do provide scholarships for students from all over the world who qualify to participate at the college level. Others start earlier and win accolades as US citizens but then can opt to represent the countries of their own or their parents', and even grandparents' homelands. An example of this was the NCAA 200 meter champion Joseph Fahnbulleh. Despite being a US citizen he represented Liberia in the Tokyo Olympics. Another was the gold medal winner representing Puerto Rico, Monica Puig. The Italian 100 meter champion Lamont Marcell Jacobs also won a gold medal but he could have represented the USA as his father is from Texas. "Unlike most other nations, the USOPC does not receive direct government funding for Olympic programs." However, my comment was my concern about a fair playing field for women since there is a need to keep aberrant DSD athletes with high testosterone levels from gobbling up the awards the way they did in the 800 meters women's Olympic championship at Rio.
They will be allowed to compete as long as they agree to take a drug that will reduce their testosterone level to other female athletes. It’s fair and nobody should have an issue with it.
@@andre1987eph our Namibian Girl doesn't have those testicles u talking... She has ovaries able to give birth, have breast, girl voice, get periods..back off with ur jealous
She/he/it hat to lower their testosterone levels for 6-12 months prior to competing, None of the other competitors raised any grievance about she/he/it competing, He/she/it didn't even qualify from preliminaries AND registered the lowest lift.(came last)
@@Sagalands the other competitors couldn’t raise any concerns or they will be canceled/kick off the team or lose sponsors. The reality is Hubbard (the NZ weightlifter) was past her prime, & this was the reason for the last place. Hubbard was a weightlifter as a male. This whole thing is arbitrary, biological women who take no synthetic testosterone can’t compete but biological men who take synthetic estrogen to suppress testosterone can. And doping is illegal for everyone else. Total BS
jncc1701 is that assertion or fact regarding competitors not allowed to raise concerns? Was it synthetic estrogen she was taking? I personally think it is an affront to females that he/she/it was competing as it took up a space from a female.
Those were my thoughts Andrew. If it were left up to me I would sue the powers that be. Where is the outcry from feminist and LGBQT groups, this level of politics STINKS.
for your information, biological women don't have xy chromosomes, they have xx chromosomes. xy chromosome by medical and biological definition is a biological man. this has been established as a fact that caster semenya, francine niyonsaba, and margaret wambui, the 3 dsd athletes that swept the podium in women 800m during rio olympics in fact have xy chromosomes. also it has been established that all 3 of them don't have uterus, don't have ovaries, don't have fallopian tubes, and they all have testes. all of those i stated are proven facts.
@@clivehewitt9881 i don't deny them for who they want to be. if they identify as women then let them be. i have no problem with that whatsoever. in sports we separate men and women for that sole purpose so women can compete. the ioc and world athletic are feeling the pressure and backlash from being viewed as racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, or whatever phobic that they are being viewed as. so they go woke and inclusive to allow trans women and dsd women to compete with biological women. they open the pandora box, soon women don't want to become athletes anymore because they feel that they can not win. if ioc and sport entities want to be inclusive then open a separate category for trans and dsd athletes, and have then compete together in that category. plain and simple. but under no circumstance that trans women and dsd women should compete with biological women, in my opinion.
Problem is they’re intersex which gives them higher than normal testosterone levels. Being Intersex has been determined as giving an unfair advantage. Semenya is a similar case and she has been barred from competition.
If something being "natural" wasn't a problem then why keep natural men from competing against natural women then? Both are natural. They are intersex, they have a clear advantage given to them just like how a male athlete would have over a female. If we wanna fix this problem then we need a better way to have healthy fair competition because clearly just separating male and female genders isn't working.
Simone biles is "naturally" short which means she has a lower center of gravity now that's an advantage , Michael Phelps is "naturally" tall helping him cut through water easily ...... This is sports nothings ever is going to be equal and fair , someone somewhere is going to have more advantages than someone else .....
@@Zeratul187 obviously. We clearly draw the line somewhere when it comes to naturally occurring advantages. We do this in almost every sport. We typically draw the line at weight classes and/or gender. You won't have a natural heavyweight boxing Mayweather for one of his lightweight belts because of how uncompetitive the natural advantage is. This is the problem with intersex and other gender related issues. What I'm saying is lets draw it somewhere else to solve these problems relating to sports and sex/gender.
@@Zeratul187 Problem is the male female divide and where intersex fits in. These athletes are intersex with naturally occurring high testosterone levels, like Semenya who has been barred from competing against women. It’s a problem when you’re too male to compete against women and not male enough to compete against males. The solution offered is to take medication to artificially lower T levels - which is unhealthy. Feel sorry for these athletes who are clearly at the top of their game and now find themselves in the midst of controversy, instead of being able to celebrate their achievements with the world. They have a whole nation of fans back home in Namibia 🇳🇦
It's absurd, of course Olympic athletes are often a bit genetically different, that's just how it is. They should ban tall people in the 100m and short people in the marathon because they have an advantage.
I believe the main reason for this type of ban is that they think testosterone levels that are this high indicate that the athletes are perhaps not technically biologically classified as female, but as intersex. Would be weird to let non-female athletes compete in female competition unless it's made sure that they don't have an advantage over biological females. The separation between men and women in competition exists for a reason. I'm not saying the way they've implemented it now is the best way (and I'm not sure how accurate the tests they're currently using are to identify athletes with a difference in sexual development), but there's a valid reason behind it and it's very much different from things like height.
@@kylie.thommo8435 I would see no issue with them competing in the men's competition, except that they're not good enough. But creating a separate competition for just them seems weird, I just don't think there's enough of them for that to be a good option
@@thijsbeentjes4008 I'd pay to see them compete against each other. Like dwarves they are of special interest and who does not like to see the "Little People" competing against each other?
@@Masaku6 Why can't you guys stop using European venues and their organizations an $$$$ then and start your Own African Athletics - you are free to do so. If all you can do is accuse people of racism and complain then stop relying on the white man's world and make your own.
@@ronnie5329 They’re intersex which has been determined as giving an advantage. Semenya is a similar case and she has been barred from competition. The only way they can compete is by artificially lowering their testosterone levels which isn’t healthy. It’s not an easy problem to solve.
@@quincyquincy4764 no clue, probably not because DNA scans are not part of the standard testing kit. but if they have a naturally eleveted testosterone it's almost certain that they have Y chromosome
@@ivan24zg no ... Naturally elevated testosterone doesn't mean a y chromosome at all . A big adrenal gland ...pcod .. these are more common causes of elevated testosterone than a y chromosome
SDS females have the same advantage over regular women as men do. They have high testosterone. Leave her alone? Yeah, alone with other high testosterone females.
She may look like somewhat like a woman and sound like a woman but she has what only men are known for - high levels of Testosterone. We ban women from using artificial sources of Testosterone but just because these DSD individuals are producing it themselves some think it is OK. It's not fair to the vast majority of women athletes as they cannot produce the masculine like physiques which confer benefits in athletic competitions without high levels of testosterone.
@Shatira Lawrence I don't know what you mean by "under represented." IF it is high testosterone DSD females, they should not be in the same races with normal testosterone level women which are the vast majority of women. Why? Because they get a boost from that Testosterone. If a normal level testosterone woman boosted her testosterone what do you think would happen? Answer: She would have her medals confiscated and she'd be given penalties, maybe even banned. You need to educate yourself as to why they separated athletic events for men and women in the first place. The reason is TESTOSTERONE. Men have it and normal women don't.
@@vernonfrance2974 Good point...I feel their country is under represented by medal count compared to USA. Believe it or not I can agree with you. I also believe that there is also a covert nefarious agenda behind it.
@@shatiralawrence4268 African women, by and large, are being cheated by these aberrant "high test" individuals too. They are prohibited from having high levels of testosterone but the DSD individuals aren't. This is NOT FAIR and ordinary African women are being deprived of the medals, financial rewards and recognition they would have otherwise received. Like all normal women, African women should be demanding their own category restricted to women with NORMAL levels of testosterone. Do you really think this would deprive Africans of winning? The evidence shows African women with normal levels of testosterone do extremely well against other women with normal testosterone levels regardless of where these other women are from. Besides, now that the world is becoming more "mixed" genetically, more and more women with African ancestors are representing countries that had traditionally not had any such "mixed" or totally African descended athletes. You should be proud of these women as well, IMO. Although I am not African, I believe all of humanity originated in Africa anyway. The science of human evolution provides evidence for this belief.
@@vernonfrance2974 False information. The rule does not apply to biological XX chromosomal women with high testosterone levels The rule ONLY applies to XY Chromosomal DSD persons because it isn't fair to biological XX females. Recheck the rules please.
@@shatiralawrence4268 Correct, xx females with natural high testosterone levels WA rules ban does not apply, and are allowed to run any females events. So why then is Mboma banned 400m, as she is XX testosterone tested, WA have the results. All she has fallen the wrong side of female testosterone cut off point of 5. and not in the male range which begins at 7.7
Semenya had an interesting point that since it’s natural why is it illegal. It can be compared to guys being 7 feet tall in the NBA for example, and they have a big advantage.
🤣🤣🤣😂😅🤣😭🤣🤣😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 exactly! Why then do we have man and woman category? Just let everyone run then! So my cousin can let his son run with girls because he has Natural high testastorone!
What are we saying, that this is new, I don’t think so. Why are we stuck on African runners…..don’t tell me history isn’t full of non Africans who didn’t fit the mould and became successful.
I think there should be a physical examination to determine if they are a man or a woman. South African athlete if nobody told me I would think she was a man she even has the body and Feature of a man
Are they not women? so they are only women if they are like me that's unfair? Are you going to disqualify Usain Bolt becuase he was born Usain Bolt? I celebrate and uplift these women and their womanhood, There are many kinds of womanhood all beautiful They represent a stronger and more masculine side of woman, just like when we celebrate beuty queens and models we celebrate the more feminine side of woman Their T-levels don't make them any less woman.
Those American transgender men can only compete within the USA because President Joe Biden signed some executive order saying that they could. However, the international competition don't play that and they aren't allowed there. Send your transgenders to the USA to compete but they won't be allowed on the international stage.
That is the same as banning the tallest guys, (especially if they are from Africa), from playing basket ball ...because their height gives them undue advantage.
@@UhuruSasa85 Every other athlete is required to be within the required testosterone [a naturally occurring steroid] range. Why shouldn't these special women be too?
@@ccdailey214 They don't get it that it's about a testosterone [natural steroidal] hormone level. How does height become an analogy. They are just silly
@@nezzidon I don't know enough about her physiology to argue one way or the other, but I will say that the premise of reducing or nerfing a naturally occurring advantage seems prejudicial. Women of African descent in general have higher levels of testosterone - should women of other races be given the hormone to level the playing field?
Wow. Congratulations Christine Mboma🇳🇦! It is written: And the LORD will make you the head and not the tail; you shall be above only, and not be beneath, if you heed the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you today, and are careful to observe them.
I doubt if Kenya or Ethiopia is willing to do something like that to support a cause that their people don't have any issues with. Africa is not one country but 54 are so of them.
Also, I'm willing to bet that Kenya enjoys the slight advantages that they have with their long distance runners barely being over 125 pounds soak and wet and the higher elevations where they actually go and train makes them the number 1 world dominant force on the long distance scene and you think they want to give all that up for two sprinters from South Africa?
@@edwardjones717 they dominate because of hard work, determination and sacrifice. Many people in various countries live at high altitudes and still don't dominate middle or long distance running.
@@listenup2882 Who said anything about living at high altitudes? I said that they actually run and train at high altitudes. There is no way that you can convince me that if you are not going to grow to be no more than 5ft 8in and weigh 127lbs. that you will not have the same success as them training up in those higher altitudes just like they do.
It stinks, the Olympics is about the best of the best, and the strongest of the strong. natural ability is what it's all about. The IOC needs to clean up its hypocritical decisions.
Your comment is racist. You thinking that just because people don't agree with you or that she is actually a male means that we are racist is itself racist towards white people for thinking that this disagreement necessitates a racist attitude. What an ironic an hypocritical comment.
That's not how it works because once they leave the USA and try to compete in International competition they will have to answer to international rules or they won't be allowed to compete.
@@blablub2402 it's a very very very valid question.. if trans athletes have no advantages according to people like you and the Olympic governing body, why are they attacking these girls for naturally high testosterone... if you really believe these girls and caster semenya should be excluded and trans athletes included , you are part of the problem .. and it's why people believe the inclusion of trans athletes will destroy women's sports
@@iamnr4921 Sorry but they are not females, they are intersexuals. And I have never stated that they should be excluded from the Olympics. But if a trans person can compete has nothing to do with the debate if an intersex person can compete-> Whataboutism
She's a woman with only high testosterone, not an intersex. That's her genetic advantage, just like that of Michael Phelps. So why should she be forced to take medication?
Life isen't fair, sports aren't fair and anyone can tell you that. Trying to make sports fair by simply eliminating people because they don't fit what you were thinking will just make both life and sports even more unfair. If you really want to make things ''fair'' maybe come up with a third class to let people compete in, one where unusual high testostorone levels for women are classified to and unusual low testostorone levels for men are classified to. Oh and if that ain't fair then maybe just maybe you are overreacting to this situation.
@Bas Scheffener Why make life more unfair by letting the DSD females clean up all the major competitions set aside for WOMEN? Women who are normal in their levels of testosterone are in far greater numbers and would be screened out from the awards.
Why make a new class? The Olympics are literally a competition to celebrate weird people yet they're banning weird people from competing... Just let them compete.
@@vernonfrance2974 That is the question is it not? Should we make groups that are similair to the weight classes in boxing or not? But one thing is certain, by no means is pleasing the majority always the right way to do things. And if different grades come into play i think it is only right to let everyone still be able to compete, no matter if they fit the body type of the majority or not.
@@basscheffener1564 If we don't keep out individuals with significantly higher amounts of testosterone we are depriving ordinary women of the chance to win races. Having divisions between men's and women's events is not a division based on body type. It is a division based on excessive testosterone production because that is very thing that distinguishes men from women. Thus allowing in the DSD's with much higher levels of testosterone is like allowing a flock of sheep to be infiltrated by wolves in sheep's clothing. They look like sheep superficially but they ain't sheep.
@@vernonfrance2974 The division between men and women started out as one based on body type but as we are moving forward we can come to the conclusion that this difference is because of testosterone, as you stated. There for i am only suggesting a closer look to testosterone and if it is really something that should be put into different brackets or well just have a hard limit. And is testosterone levels the only unfair advantage that any sport has? I think that both height and body type can also be just as unfair depending on the sport. So why can we not make brackets, is too much work? And what about the other differences? After all this is not a videogame where everything can be made equal.
I totally agree. Whereas Caster Semenya has XY chromosomes. Everything about Caster is male. It's a joke. It's like Usain Bolt wanting to compete in female sports because he identify as a female.
@@ygmistique8155 Semenya is not biologically female, so she shouldn’t be running in female races…no matter what anyone says she should not be allowed to run.
@@ygmistique8155 this is also true- I’m sure there are some non athletic women with naturally occurring high levels of testosterone that probably couldn’t even run 200m
@GC Richard A child who is African can get a lot of gratification in watching performers who look a lot like them competing in athletics. African descended performers do very well in athletics and many other endeavors. Therefore, an African child doesn't need to see DSD individuals with high testosterone levels competing against normal women to be so gratified.
You are comparing apples and oranges. We are specifying aspects of the body that make a person eligible or ineligible for WOMEN's events. Feet do not increase the levels of testosterone.
@@vernonfrance2974 they are diffrement. The point being that testosterone ( when naturally occuring) and feet size are both entirely natural to that person. That is iow they are born the woman is still a woman , so the argument about tans and intersex people does jot apply. Olympic sportspersons are outliers of the human specie as a rule anyway.
@@jmus6494 Since we have special divisions for men and for women we have to distinguish what makes the difference. The most distinctive sexual characteristic which causes the differences in levels of athletic performance is the normal levels of testosterone. A DSD woman has testosterone levels right up there with typical males. That is why they have an unfair advantage. Why are you so worried about being "fair" to them when it would result in being UNFAIR to the average female athlete with normally low levels of testosterone?
@@vernonfrance2974 I'm actually not concerned about any unfairness per se. My concern is merely whether its correct to say a person with a naturally occuring feature should be disqualified from competing with that feature. Especially as this feature has no bearing on whether the person is in fact a female.
@@vernonfrance2974 You said " A DSD woman has testosterone levels right up there with typical males." That is a LIE. Many many studies have shown that DSD athletes' testosterone is still far, far LOWER than the "average" male's but considerably higher than the average female's. You need to stop spreading Lies to justify your prejudiced arguments and do honest research to realize the truth.
I am watching 3:05 and I am comparing this image to Wode Maya's documentary on Namibia 🇳🇦. The West will show nice pubs or bars or city centres, they show the nice sides then for Africa, they show the villages or places that have poor aesthetics to continue perpetuating that despair, poverty and sad images they have of Africa and want unsuspecting viewers to have. Such a shame.
@@yawos9024 Disingenuous may be far reaching. Can you say Western press is disingenuous for showing you less poverty from their sides and more riches? I watch DW and I know there is no country without problem but this one I know, I have been following western media in books, TV, magazines, radio and all form of Media for a very long time so I didn't just wake up to that comment. It is a well crafted design to tell a story of despair and gloom. The scene was not even from her community, they chose good angles to perpetuate the "aid" Africa always needs. Let's not get into the argument but I said what I saw
@@olalereqi545 Look! I am not naïve! I am African myself but I am not fussy about such portrayal of Africa. I'd rather they tell the world they steal from Africa and makes us poor! Who cares about skyscrapers? I live in a City where the Skyscraper was born. Right in that city, there are so many homeless people.
@@yawos9024 There are so many homeless people in Germany. I'm sure you are aware Germany has the worst homeless crisis in Europe and developed nations. No one will tell you your feel good stories. It's not in their interest. The lion will always be the threat in the hunter's storybook.
@Olalere Qi What is stopping Africans from showing the shameful tent cities of homeless people in the USA? NOTHING! And I hope you will do so. I am ashamed of the country I am a citizen of, the USA, for permitting people to live in degrading, unhealthy places yet "Tent and Tarp Cities," even during Our Severely Cold Winters are increasing everywhere thanks to the greed and ruthlessness of the ruling elite in the USA.
@Nayshindogdotcom The DSD females don't need to do as much training to win. It's like letting greyhounds race against poodles. The reason we set aside athletic competitions specially limited to women is the fact that the men have the advantage because of higher normal levels of testosterone.
“An unfair competitive advantage”. So does Simone Biles’ musculature give her an unfair advantage? Does Brittney Griner’s height and arm span give her an unfair advantage? Or Michael Phelps height? The banning of these natural athletes is wrong and unfair.
Their research said there is advantage in marathon, 400m and 800m. But they included the 1500m where no advantage was found and excluded the marathon where advantage was found. It does seem they are targeting certain athletes. Coe is now implying there is an advantage after they themselves(iaaf) told them they can run the 200m. In all the world why have dsd athletes only been found in Africa, i doubt we have a monopoly in anything in this world.
@@mssha1980 their evidence said there was not significant advantage in the 1500m, why was that banned, and not the marathon where there was significant advantage was found. Their rules and evidence seems to suit their agenda every time. There has been dsd athletes running then 200m for years, since they were not winning there was no advantage, now 2 are doing well, now there is possible advantage?
@@chokistick9581 what DSD athletes have run 200m? They banned those races because they have evidence that there is an advantage. Now they have evidence to ban them from the 200m
@zla Rich You are trying to compare apples and oranges. Messi has no known testosterone advantage over other males. His skill is the big difference between him and others with whom he competes. Not hormones. Mboma and Masilingi and other DSD individuals do have a hormonal advantage. If you have normal vision, you should be able to see the masculinized development. Open your eyes and your heart to the needs of ordinary women to have fair competition against other low level testosterone females. After all they are in the vast majority and their hormonal differences are the reason women were given separate events in the first place.
@@vernonfrance2974 it's a trait common in East African Bantus, should east Africa be banned all together or create their own Olympics. There are two African queens that have the same genetic make up, so why is one running faster than the other?
If it’s naturally occurring she should be allowed to compete. Why should anyone be denied their God given talent. She was born girl. Honestly it’s wrong. I’m not Namibian but I think it’s wrong. Would the same be true if she had extraordinary intellect. Would she be denied formal education or be allowed to sit examinations with their peers?
Well she is a Transgender Athlete and that makes the different. She is a male born... that is where the ??? of the high Testosterone level comes in. So basically a male running as female.
The truth is: Christine Mboma is an ordinary naturally talented teenager girl ....jst after she broke the 400m record..."they" started planning their tricks against her as they usually do with many other African sprinter girls...these girls were than unfairly banned from participating in the 400m at the Olympics....They went on with their agenda and threw the girls into 200m thinking they are done stopping the girls dreams. Unfortunately their plans couldn't work...the girl got powered from above and continued shining in the 200m....and now "they" are out of plans against the girls... simply allow this girls to shine.....they are naturally gifted...no DSD or testosterone issues here..they are 100% woman....stop this...simply stop because your plans won't work....the girls will shine brighter each time they are put under pressure...
My problem with these tests is that only those who are "suspected" are tested. It's not a standard procedure. You could find that the are a lot of female athletes who produce a lot of testosterone even those who look perfectly feminine.
@@sophym3990 All athletes have to take routine tests to show they are not doping. I am hoping they will show that this is being done with everyone and not getting scoops only with special groups. I have a special passion for fairness and hate anything of a discriminatory fashion or that is merely careless.
Then they wouldn't look "perfectly feminine" though. That's what hormones do: produce many changes. I agree that it should be across the board, however.
The advantage is a statistical one since clinical proof would not be done for ethical reasons unless the athletes consented. CAS agreed that this statistical significance constituted an advantage. Since most DSD's were in the 400m - 1 Mile events this is where CAS allowed the ban to take place until further evidence in the other events.
@@veridicusmaximus6010 Interesting. Also absurd on the part of the CAS since there is a massive preponderance of evidence. It should be all athletic events.
why are people with superior intellect allowed to advance in academia? Is that not unfair to the dim who should not have to be surpassed by those with brains? bollocks!
Two normal, beautiful and gifted young women whose lives and privacy would be unmolested if some people running the show weren't trying to be too clever.
@Michael It is not NORMAL for any woman to have testosterone levels in the range of the normal male levels. One glance at them and you should be able to see that they may be beautiful to you, but that they look more like males who have been altered to make believe they are females such as Bruce Jenner did. In the case of the SDS athletes their predicament is through no fault of their own but that does mean they should be permitted to beat up on women with normally low levels of testosterone.
@@vernonfrance2974 look at it another way, they are born to run or exel in sport like other athletes with a natural advantage so let them run and even wipe out the field if they can because its all natural, we should relax and enjoy these once in a while marvels. Without today's technology would there be a problem?
@Michael To answer your last point first. Yes there was a problem long ago when obviously masculine looking individuals were competing as women. This was noticed without blood tests being available at the time and many were stripped of their awards. Sadly, they were often stripped of their clothes as well to see the differences that clothing often hid. "Sports competitions have been legislating gender for nearly a century." Wikipedia The divisions between men and women in international competitions were done historically because MALES have an OBVIOUS ADVANTAGE. Why? Because they have testes which produce testosterone in far greater amounts than women do. Some Olympic medalists have slipped through the cracks, literally, include Caster Semenya. Although found to have internal testicles this individual was allowed to keep several medals and was even awarded a gold medal when the winner was found to have used "doping." There are still aberrant individuals who may look like women (which is debatable) but with their high testosterone they have all the advantages that that confers - greater strength, more fast-twitch muscle fibers, and quicker recovery from strenuous effort. They should not be allowed to use there abnormal advantage against women with normal levels who are far in the majority numerically speaking. There is nothing fair about it and it must be stopped.
I agree Michael, I am a doc who has worked in 10 countries around the world. The stereotypical European slight girl is a product of patriarchal misogyny. I have seen so many beautiful women in Brazil, Africa, Middle East, USA, who are naturally more athletic looking. Especially in sprinting,, there are far more women with lower testosterone levels who are bulkier and more muscular. Mboma is not even that big, it's her endurance that sets her apart not her speed! Any commentators who think otherwise need to get out and see more of the world.
This should be done for transgenders. Women with high level of testosterone naturally shouldn't even be condemned into doing anything to lower it. They're women who should be competing as women.
Why can't we just recognize that "fairness" is not about gender, but testosterone levels in some subset of sports. Why not just place people in categories of testosterone ranges? We have that data on all the athletes anyway. 🙄
@@firerose7936 Well testosterone level is not the only factor, as there are fundemental differencesin cells, muscles etc. between the sexes. Even if a woman had the testosterone level of a man, she couldn´t compete with him
@@blablub2402 that may be true in part, but I still believe that there are ways to balance fair game ethics with metrics other than biological sex. We already sort people by age, weight, and qualifying metrics (ie qualifying times). If people were less committed to sorting by sex / gender, and willing to explore other sorting mechanisms based on the actual skills and abilities of competitors we could figure out better fair play metrics.
Have you not read this Scripture: “‘The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; this was the Lord’s doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes’?” Mark 12:10-11🇳🇦❤️
What's wrong with a WOMAN who is "DSD" to compete as a WOMAN and win as a WOMAN - its absurd? She is a WOMAN as nature or GOD intended and SHE has not altered HERSELF in any way, If she happens to be better than me a WOMAN who does not have "DSD" then why can I not accept that and say wow this WOMAN is gifted in a way that I am not Wasn't that the whole point of sports to begin with? To celebrate individuals among us who are gifted in different ways and have trained and used their gifts to develop their particular skill? Are we to stop celebrating gifted musicians, poets, authors, artist's too? It's crazy NO SHAME
Respectfully I hear you but I remain unconvinced Is there a prescribed T-level for men as well? Arent Olympians irregular people by definition it's seems like a double standard one for men and one for women? And I still don't understand how they are the ones punished and vilified when it isn't their fault? Scratching my head.
@@elainerekopantswe2933 men and women (thankfully) are not the same. So there can be no comparison in this situation. Women with more male genes are stronger than regular women, while men with less male genes ( or more female genes) are weaker than regular men. They’re not being vilified, it’s making competition more equal. Take emotions out of the discussion.
@@mikedonnit972respectfully in what way am i being emotional? It isn't in the spirit of sports or the Olympics to define some artificial mand made restrictions or threshold on whats acceptable It should be inclusive and not limiting Its not about how many people are affected by a rule but about whether a rule is fair and just or not. This one is unjust
DW you are part of the problem that looks down on Africans and causes the likes of IAAF to look even further down with systematic discrimination, when you show (back home in namibia) ( 3.05) you show only villages and not the beautiful side of namibia, yes that is mboma's home village but you portray a narrative that the rest of namibia and Africa is just a village
OK hold on, so it's her home village right? Then what's the problem? Why should they be showing other random places that have no connection to her story? It's NOT racism showing where she's from that's just showing FACTS, you're just insecure.
A few days ago, I made the comment, that Christine Mboma, is ("Dead Woman Running")! For those of you that don't understand what I met by that statement: It means, in my opinion, Track and Field governing body, will eventually rule against Christine Mboma, like they did with Caster Semenya, and she'll eventually be stopped (Dead in her Tracks) I feel Christine Mboma, should enjoy winning as often as she can, because somewhere down the line, (It could be 2 or 3 years from now) but the domination, that's she enjoying, will be short lived, because I can't see Track and Field governing body, allowing her, or any high testosterone woman, to continue to destroy records in the sport of Track and Field. In other words, Caster Semenya, was ("Dead Woman Running") at the 2012 and 2016 Olympics, because all the advantages she had, with her high testosterone levels, caught up with her, and eventually, she's now sitting on the sidelines, watching women with natural testosterone levels compete. Maybe, I'll be proven wrong, and Track and Field governing body, will not rule against Christine Mboma, and she'll continue to break records, and win several gold medals, throughout her career. If that's the case, all I can say is: ("More Power to Her")! One thing I can honestly say; ("If high testosterone women, start to take over Track and Field, and continue to dominate, I'll personally stop watching women's sprint events, or any other events, they dominate")! There's no way, I can sit and enjoy watching the 100 or 200 meters at the World Championships, or the Olympics, if over half the women in the race, are classified as having (high testosterone)! Women's Track and Field, will never be the same, (AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED)!
This mostly only affects African athletes. The world is afraid of the untapped greatness of a fully developed African nation. If you pay attention to events outside distance races, many Africans are excelling more than ever before.
@@vernonfrance2974 We should not encourage mediocrity , with sports or any competition the best athletes should compete and not have them lower their superiority to accommodate the normal.
@@aemonpetrus8411 A WR performance by a normal woman would be considered mediocre if it were by a man or someone with a testosterone advantage such as an intersex or SDS individual. We should not allow persons with high levels of testosterone who have an unfair advantage over women compete against them. Those with high testosterone do not qualify for Women's competitions. Let them go to the Special Olympics since they are special.
The rule was enacted for one reason: to keep Caster Samenya out of the 2020 Olympics. That's why it was event specific (400-1500m). The affair reminds me of the failure of Boston Marathon officials to recognize the PR benefits of female participation in the event when Roberta Gibb first ran "the Boston" unofficially in 1966, as reported with approval in the press.
"Athlete with NATURALLY high testosterone level" NATURALLY - a word which derives from nature, not a quality enhanced by humans; with, for example, high-technological equipment. Guess we always wanted to go against the nature, or rather control it for our benefits - in business as well as in sport(s) (athletics federations really leading the way).
@Michael Fitz Are women merely defined by their external genitalia? No, their lower hormone levels of testosterone are also a part of the normal woman's makeup. To let those with high testosterone levels in is allowing them the same benefits high testosterone confers to men. Why not just let everyone compete in a "free for all" then?
This is just total BS. Banning people because of something their body does naturally is total madness. This is just another to discriminate against these athletes.
They are not banned from the sport, they are free to participate in the men's category. The women's category does not exist for choosing different colours, it exists because humans without a Y chromosome have a huge disadvantage. Much beyond a few cm of height. Similarly to when people grow up they are not allowed to compete in the kid's category anymore.
@@jupitherdanach7643 what nonsense have you just said, they are biological women. Please keep your stupidity off the internet. And pick up a biology text book
@@tundelayne443 xD right. How about you start by googling "differences of sexual development" and "androgen insensitivity syndrome". And since you already mentioned the basic biology book, how about you look up the part on differences between phenotype and genotype? The women concerned here are phenotypically female (external female characteristics) but have XY chromosomes and internal testes which produce the high levels of testosterone.
They were disqualified from winning because of NATURALLY high levels of testosterone? Would you say a runner is disqualified from LOSING because she has a naturally higher level of estrogen? Men with naturally higher levels of testosterone win ALL the time... with no problem.
I often hear the argument, well genetical addvantage is part of top level sports, Usain Bolt was partly faster than the normal dude because he had a genetical advantage. Ok then, why don´t men and women compete together? I mean it´s just a genetical advantage... Our society has drawn dividing lines at biological sex. Sadly as intersex athletes they don´t fit in either category, I feel really sorry for the athletes having to deal with this. Maybe the solution is another category (it´s definetly not taking hormones to reduce the T-level)
@@blablub2402 If it's about being "politically correct" BIOLOGICAL MEN who transition to live as women. Which doesn't turn them by miracle into women. There fore... Men compiting against women.
@@Sagalandsyour are a Full stop fulling yourself at least be wise for once. I am not from Senegal. politics in athletes is killing the sport called athletes. Athletes will never be like football, Boxing, Basket Ball, etc. Athletes has gotten lowest recognition all over the world that is while no giant Billioniares wants to invite into athletes. Mark Svasand at least be wise for once.
Philip Bright I was pointing out that it was the previous president Lamine Diack from Senegal that presided over ruling. Probably best not to call people names. For future reference, It's fool....your cup is full or belly is full...if referring to someone in a derogatory way...you would say ....you're a fool.
They need to give them there own games. They will probably ban them anyway from the 200 meters like they did in 400 meters. If they gave them there own games then there will be no more problems, because other countries will not alone this to continue no matter what they say.
@@rosaworksrosaworks9410 If something is not done they'll win every race they enter like in The Rio Olympics 800 where they came in first, second and third.
@@vernonfrance2974 Yes that is what l am afraid of to, l really believe that Africa has a secret agenda to use these women. But l don't believe the other countries and female runners will put up with some thing like that.
@@rosaworksrosaworks9410 They are trying to use "discrimnation against Africans" as a way to circumvent the problem. DSD athletes have been banned from Europe, Asia and the Americas in the past as well. This Olympics they were restricted to just a few events but Mboma, despite not having trained for the 200 meters, easily passed Shelly-Ann Fraser Price, arguably the most decorated female sprinter ever, and Gabby Thomas, The US's top 200 meter competitor. If they let ANY of them in, it is unfair to ordinary women with ordinary levels of testosterone.
The power that be wants to oppress Africans in all aspects of life including sports. This wouldn’t have been a topic if the athletes were from United States. Congratulations to Namibian athletes. JMO
Masilingi finushed 6th. Where was the testosterone? Were the 4 athletes ahead of her (excluding Christine) also helped by testosterone? Elaine was 1st, ahead of Christine. Was she helped by testosterone?
@Qoako Intersex and DSD athletes come from all areas and groups. They have been banned since way back in time as they have an UNFAIR advantage over normal women because they possess the one quality that caused a decision to separate male and female athletes in the first place - much higher levels of testosterone. They can reduce those levels and compete with women. Or, they could compete with other special people in events like the Special Olympics.
That's a stooooo peeed questions! Every athletes are tested otherwise you can't compete and mboma and Beatrice are both males biologically, there Adams apple give them away!
