@dogehkiindogeborn5339 lmao it's almost like people forget what a 2 card combo is. If u need 5 cards and 21 mana to pull it off. It's not a combo lmao.
I’m not sure it would resolve like that, since they only exchange text boxes and not names. And the ruling is pretty specific. Please some one correct me if I’m wrong
Since you never got a reply, whenever a card references its own name in a text box, it's identical to saying "THIS CARD", not necessarily that named card. So, if the text is moved to another card, the name is replaced with the name of that creature.
could also play fractured identity and dress down orb. play archfiend and target it with fractured identity, flash in dress down in response then let the spell resolve. Each opponent gets a token copy of archfiend but due to dress down they enter with no oil counters. move to your end step, sacrificing dress down so the archfiends on your opponents boards get their abilities back. each opponent will lose the game in their upkeep. fun commander combo for and esper deck.
This is clever, I knew there is a way of passing along Archie's "you lose" condition. BTW how do you set your thumbnail so perfectly for your shorts? YT forces the thumbnails for my shorts to a random section of my short.
There have been two card combos that win the game on the spot forever. Painter's Servant and Grindstone is a classic for milling target player's entire library in one go.
@@cardheon6091 There are similar cards to what he mentioned in the video that will do the same thing. And blue is notorious for being the color to change text and other shenanigans. Hope that helps
@@MerlinTheCommenter Yeah, but the point is that it's just already existing combos, no matter how you look at it. There's basically 4x Donate, and 4x the red version of Donate (Generous Gifts or something), neither of which require anything more than you controlling the Dross.
I may be wrong I don't know. But would that work, because the card specifically states archfiend in the text. But the card we give the text box to is not archfiend. It doesn't give it the same name. So I dont think that this combo works...
Whenever a card has it's own cardname in its rules it refers to itself. That still works when its name changes and all other copy effects that keep the name of a creature.
Need to learn the rules a bit. 201.5. Text that refers to the object it’s on by name means just that particular object and not any other objects with that name, regardless of any name changes caused by game effects. 201.5b If an ability of an object refers to that object by name, and an object with a different name gains that ability, each instance of the first name in the gained ability that refers to the first object by name should be treated as the second name. Another way to think of it is anytime a card says the creatures name in an ability, you can mentally replace it with "this object"
Toonz. I recommend focusing on gear with higher offense. You’re pretty good at dodging and always stocked on healing potion. I know the difficulty of enemies will increase but so will the overall defensiveness of your gear over time. Higher offense will make you spend less time in combat before they even have a chance to deal that kind of damage to you if they’re lucky enough to land a hit.
There's also a black card that came out with this friedrichs Ian set that allows you to draw four cards and Target player gains control of Target creature
Keep in mind, this is only activated at the beginning of that player's upkeep, so there's still some time to respond. Not much, but better than none. Sac outlets also help.
wouldn't it resolve once they lose? that's weird because technically you basically stole the text for that creature id say it stays. my question would be say there is 1 oil counter left, if you then exchange of words does the opponent start with 1 oil counter or do they reset.
I believe it reverts back to the original text if its the same as if you exchanged control of a creature, when that player loses the game you gain control of all of your permanents and everything is exiled and leaves the stack.
@@DUxMORTEM Yeah, but you don't have to keep removing oil counters during upkeep since it no longer has that ability. Even if you lose exchange of words, you still have all those oil counters on it and only have them taken off at upkeep. This is also in black, the easiest of the colors to sac or remove your own dross when you need to.
It would work amazing in Jon. Especially if you add in things like spark double, mirror image, glasspool mimic, etc. Just kill people by giving them creatures about to kill you. lol
Thats what Ive been trying to build for a few days now, that and using Jon and the newer Zur to turn the Lich enchantments and 9 lives into creatures to give away and die to blockers.
Here's the thing about giving permanent A the abilities of permanent B: If permanent B has an ability that uses its name, for as long as it's on permanent A, it's treated as though it uses permanent B'A's name instead (see the rulings of Nicol Bolas, Dragon-God)
Except permanent B isn't entering the battlefield so in this case it wouldn't get the etb trigger of having oil counters placed on it. Since its not being played from the hand, graveyard, or exile. So I have no idea what you're going on about
Well since it says specifically archfiend of the dross, and the switched creatures text box isn't archfiend of the dross it won't have any effect. If the text in the box said, "from this creature" instead of specifically saying the creature's name then it shouldn't have any effect.
You could use harmless offering to give archfiend to an opponent as well I do this same thing with demonic contract or midnight oil once the oil counters are gone to make my opponent have a 0 hand size
@@Chidon0 LOL what? who told you that? You very much can cast spells during the upkeep phase on anyone's turn. You have to cast either instants, or cards with flash but there is no restriction on casting spells during the upkeep.
I’m still getting the hang of these card text rulings, but can’t they just remove counters from your archfiend? The text says to remove counters from it, but doesn’t specify where from. Again I’m not so good with these things, but I was curious
I play my Archfiend, play Solemnity (only Planeswalkers can have counters put on them), then Fractured Identity the Archfiend. Mine is exiled, everyone else gets a copy with no counters on it.
This is gonna sound kinda weird but I don't think that it works that way. The wording is very specific and says that "If Archfiend of the Dross has no oil counters on it, you lose the game." You're not making the card that you exchange words with Archfiend of the Dross Archfiend of the Dross, you're just exchanging it's effects
"2017-08-25: If an activated ability of a card in exile with a cage counter on it references the card it’s printed on by name, treat Mairsil’s instance of that ability as though it referenced Mairsil by name instead. For instance, if Mairsil exiles Magus of the Mind, the cost to activate the ability includes sacrificing Mairsil, not sacrificing Magus of the Mind."
Uh unless i am missing something it would still be removing oil counters from archfiend of the dross since the card is specifically named it doesn't say this creature it names specifically archfiend of the dross
This is off topic but once i saw archfiend i couldn't help but think of how the archfiend archetype in Yu-Gi-Oh likes to leak into other archetypes and now it seems to be leaking into other card games lol
How does the text box interaction work when the player is knocked out? I know when a player loses the game all of their spells and permanents are also removed (I.e. if you control one of their creatures, it’s just removed from the game) but is the same true for text boxes?
But that doesn’t change the name of the swapped creature? So would you only play that enchantment when archfiend no longer has oil counters? And what happens after the opponent dies?
The text box is specific that Archfiend of the Dross must have no counters on it. Since only the text box, and not the card name are swapped, this isn't an instant loss unless the Archfiend is out of counters.
Whenever a card quotes its own name in the textbox what it actually means (by the rules of the game) is "this card" So the combo works: I know it is not intuitive, but because of how the rules work switching the textboxes actually changes the name in the box to the new card name
I feel like you'd need to clarify with a ref if the creature's name is included in that switch, otherwise the textbox's effect is either invalid or your Archfiend is still the target of the effect.
Rule 706.11 says: If an effect refers to a permanent by name, the effect still tracks that permanent even if it changes names or becomes a copy of something else.
Would this work? The text says "remove an oil counter from archfiend of the dross," not "from this character." Wouldn't you have to find a way to remove the counters from archfiend still?
When a card refers to itself by name, it really means "this card, that the effect is coming from". The card writes out it's name for easier readability.
201.5. Text that refers to the object it’s on by name means just that particular object and not any other objects with that name, regardless of any name changes caused by game effects. 201.5b If an ability of an object refers to that object by name, and an object with a different name gains that ability, each instance of the first name in the gained ability that refers to the first object by name should be treated as the second name. learn the rules homie
Because that would take four turns...in a format where you're usually facing three other players. This combo only takes till your endstep assuming you targeted the next player in the rotation.
Nope. The text swap is a permanent effect until Exchange of Words leaves the battlefield. THEN the text on the Archfiend of the Dross reverts back to normal. It's Un-set bullshit. Don't be surprised if your LGS or playgroup has banned that crap.
Note how when you trigger/activate the ability of one copy of a card, for the most part it doesn't do the same to each copy of that card even though it says that name. When a card states it's name it is just referring to itself, basically just meaning "this card that you're looking at right now." This works how this short says it does.
This became a big problem when Ikoria was released, so there're a lot of people on the internet who have clarified how this works, including Wizards themselves. Names just refer to "this piece of cardboard"
First of all, requires DImir. Secondly, there's a reason "voltron" is frowned upon, Kediss, Emberclaw Familiar fix's this but you'd need to run it as your commander. "Synergies" or "combo's" that only remove one opponent out of the game still means your hoping the other two or last opponent doesn't have anything. And sometimes a player will have "just enough" situation that they could win in your face but only 1v1 where if another player was still in the game they wouldn't risk it. Your essentially either giving the win to someone who otherwise couldn't had risked "doing the play" or your able to "blow up" each player taking essentially three turns to do so. Always feels bad when you eliminate one opponent and the next opponent does a board wipe.
Nope the official ruling on the enchantment states the loss of permanent b does not make permanent a revert. In this case you'd have Archfiend of the Dross essentially be a copy text wise of whatever permanent you switched its text with. Meaning it's only good for taking out one opponent. In a format that usually has multiple.
The name of a card in its own textbox is not just text, it's a reference to the object it's attached to. In this case, the card effectively reads "remove an oil counter from Phyrexian Obliterator." Otherwise having multiple cards with the same name would create undesired behaviour.
I had a buddy who's the dad always bought and built literally the best decks you could and it was never fun to play with him. He always had stuff like this and he would just bully us. It didn't make us any better at the game. We went into it already knowing we were going to lose because we didn't have anything like he did. I mean shoot. We didn't understand how to build token generators or anything like that. And of course he didn't explain it to us. People like that really make it hard to enjoy the game. They don't teach you and they use their cash to buy the best things money can. Then they're like well if you just understood the game better.
@@alessio6216 it still wouldn't work, cause it says "remove an oil counter from archfiend of the dross, then if it has no oil counters on it, you lose the game" (the it meaning the archfiend you have, because it only switches text boxes not the title of the card) so it wouldn't remove oil counters from itself at all unless you can somehow also name the creature archfiend of the dross.
@@alessio6216 but the text specifically says "remove an oil counter from Archfiend of the Dross" and Exchange of Words only changes the text box not the name, so that means no oil counters will or can be removed from that creature since it's not named Archfiend of the Dross.
I’m fairly certain that this is a case of the card referring to itself as a card, not card name. Like if you had two Archfiends of the Dross, you wouldn’t be able to remove two counters from one archfiend. The text saying “Archfiend of the Dross” in this case is just saying “This card”. Otherwise the text would read “Remove an oil counter from a card named Archfiend of the Dross”
Except it doesnt work. EoW swaps text boxes, but doesnt change the text. Your Archfiend wont lose counters and their creature now refers still to Archfiend. The easier way to do it is to just use "fateful handoff" when it just has one counter on it.
I believe the onley way in my mindes eye that it does in fact work is that the card that says you lose is now the other cards controler. Even though Archfiend controler didnt change and the text describeing Archfiend and how Archfiend works didnt change, The controler of the card with its lose condition did in fact change.
@@beowolfwesley8062 - i mean, you're wrong but if you wanna blatantly disregard rules to win i guess.... All that happens in this instance is you create a "target not found" situation and nothing happens.
God I hate Un-sets. Fun to draft but none of them should be legal in Commander. Ever. WotC just chasing Commander bucks by not making this entire set silver-bordered.
