Nasty Exchange after Airspace Violation | "You can't enter Class D Airspace" 

After the immense number of emails received regarding this audio, we have a bonus video today. Leave your opinion below!

What the hell was this pilot thinking? You don't address the tower as "Buddy" or "Johnny". FAA regs clearly state that you must use "Ace", "Slick" or "Champ".

A controller saying 'Have pen ready for the number' hits with the same energy as Chris Hansen saying 'just have a seat right over there'.

When I was flying my first cross-country solo from KBKV to KFMY, I picked up flight following in Tampa, and the controller directed me to stay outside the Bravo along the coast, which I acknowledged and tried to do. At one point, though, I slipped in a little bit, and I got a call that I was inside the Bravo airspace. You know what I told that controller, bustin' my balls for being just a little tiny bit inside the Bravo? I said, "Oh, very sorry about that, turning to 210" (or whatever vector got me out quickly). You know what she said instead of, "I have a phone number for you?" She just said, "no worries!" Amazing what a little civility and humility can do for you.

I’ve found that “my bad” or “my error” generally work better than “piss off.”

Wow, that pilot talked himself into the number. If he had apologized I think the controller would have been happy to reinform him of class D procedures.

This is my home drome. Tower personnel have been great and usually very accommodating. Not sure what's up with this pilot, but his attitude did him no favors.

Sure sounds like Captain Asshat is an instructor which means he is literally held to a higher standard. I’d say he needs more training.

0:30 "I DON'T CARE if it's 10 calls..." is what ATC said. Prior to that, the pilot said, "We were handed off from Socal and you were prioritizing people on the ground, and that was our 5th call." Basically, the pilot is stating that they were trying to call and ATC wasn't responding, so they continued on their track inbound for the airport. ATC's point is that regardless of the tower being busy, they shouldn't have entered the Class D without first establishing comms with the tower.

I actually wrote to the FAA chief counsel a while back about a similar hypothetical in which Center didn’t hand a pilot off to Approach before they entered Class C, and whether that would still be a violation on the pilot’s part. Their answer was yes, it’s your job to talk to the right facility, even if the prior controller doesn’t transfer you in time-but they also added that ATC’s actions could be a mitigating factor when assessing any penalty. I didn’t enquirer as to whether being a smart ass with the controller would help at all…

When you've made a mistake, don't compound it by being a prick. You always lose. Controllers won't violate you if they can avoid it but if you're a jerk, well, you get what you deserve.

Wow, I looked in the FARs for a "It's OK to enter Controlled airspace after 5 calls to tower" but it's not in there! I just knew I would find it in there somewhere... :)

Corrected subs: "...that was our fifth call." "I don't care if it was 10 calls, you can't enter delta airspace..."

During a training flight I errantly crossed into L.A. class B. ATC sternly told me NOT to enter further. After I got my sh&t back together I fixed the issue. He was stern, but the error was mine and I accepted that. It got no worse from there. A little humility and respect saved the day for me. 👍🏾

CFI trying to impress female student gets his ass handed to him by a pissed off but professional controller. Humble pie sets in.

I would pay so much money just to hear the phone conversation between these two

"you were busy, I was impatient, so I just barged right in and endangered hundreds of people."

one thing I've learned in my pilot training: if you mess up and tower calls you out, NEVER get defensive. When tower says he's "trying to smooth it out" I'm willing to bet there's a reasonable chance the pilot would get away with a stern talking-to if he's respectful and is ready to work with the tower. If you get defensive like that you're just digging yourself into a deeper hole.

Everyone’s a tough guy until they get hit with the “advise when ready to copy a phone number”… the faux bravery trickled out of his voice like sand out of a broken hourglass.

Calling the controller "JOHNNY" was pure disrespect. Yank his ticket.

On his lunch break the controller drove over to the hanger and flattened the tires.

Yeah, let me just get aggressive with the controller of the airspace I just busted on purpose, that will work out well. I don’t understand some people’s logic. Never expect to be cleared into an airspace, always have a back-up plan. This is student pilot level knowledge, any pilot should never treat a controller that way.

"You were prioritizing planes on the ground ahead of us..." Clearly that was ONLY because the controller, who has knowledge of the situation on the field that you couldn't possibly possess, was unaware of how incredibly important you are, Mr. CFI. When I was learning, a lot of the time there was one controller to manage both twr and gnd freqs, and you heard the gnd calls on the twr freq because of that. I was always impressed at the ability of the controller to herd the cats safely and efficiently. I heartily agree with those comments about the student needing to seek out a new CFI. This one is too self-important to put the needs of the student first, which is exactly where the needs of a paying student should be positioned. If I was the controller, I might be tempted to place a call to the flight school that employed this guy.

Was that a CFI jumping in there on comms? Because yikes if it was

Why do people get so offended when someone corrects their mistake? Yes it's a mistake, everyone makes them, but quit getting defensive about it. That's what REALLY gets to people.

When approach control gives you a very late hand-off to tower, be prepared to do 360's if the tower doesn't answer quickly. Better yet, be pro-active with approach, "Airport in sight" or "May I switch to tower now". Get 'er done early to avoid this situation. When you're flying 3 miles per minute, one little delay can ruin your day.

Here is something for discussion amongst us and the CFI's in the group wit there PPL students - OK so doing a little investigation and assuming this is the flight from 9/29 -- doesn't look like this was a "instructional" flight but a trip to the beach to look at the surf. According to FlightAware, he was pretty low the entire time, often below 1000 AGL over populated areas - that's another issue unto itself - he left FUL flew to the beach through Los Alamito's DELTA, came back through Los Al's DELTA and into FUL DELTA. Now here is the problem that doesn't occur too often, except when controlled airports are right next to each other, but Los Als DELTA and FUL's DELAT bump up against each other along with LGB, so if there is no handoff from Los Al to FUL there is really no place for the guy to go EXCEPT to climb ABOVE the DELTA at 2,500 feet or to exit the DELTA to the southeast, but the you have the Mickey Mouse TFR to fly through. Looking at the ATIS for that time frame, he could have climbed to 2,500 and held waiting clearence.

Props to that controller, i would've called him an idiot lmao.

Used to fly through FUL airspace all the time. They were contract controllers then but never had any problems. It’s busy airspace with a lot of flight instructions going on so you gotta stay on your toes. Learned to fly out of LGB so most airspace doesn’t even faze me.

How the hell can anyone be in a bad mood when flying. Every day I get to go up I feel like the luckiest person alive. I couldn’t imagine having an attitude like that over a small verbal lashing for breaking protocol. A simple, “my bad” and move on with life.

"Is a pencil okay?"... 😭😭🤣🤣🤣😆

I feel bad for the student. I bet she's seriously considering finding a new instructor.

I was a student pilot when I had failure on one of my radios, I couldn't listen to the KMYF's ATIS, then suddenly I realized that I was at the border of the Delta, I made a 360 towards KSEE. When I contacted twr, she reminded me about 2way comm, I explained what happened, and saw my 360, and gave me clearance to land. No phone number to copy, punks.

360's outside the airspace till you can make contact. I've had to do it several times going into the Bay Area.

“First off it was more like ten calls” absolutely brilliant way for the controller to say “I don’t give a flying fuck how many times you gotta call”

How did the pilot know that the person at Fullerton ATC was named Johnny? smh

"do you know who my father is?" In pilot form.

"Cessna 3ZY, turn right, heading 180." At the 4NM ring, "Cessna 3ZY, frequency change approved."

Almost positive this was a CFI doing the arguing. The first pilot to respond sounds female, and when ATC tells them they screwed up, the assumed CFI becomes immediately aggressive. Ridiculous

Most comments here assume that the pilot has broken a reg. Before jumping to that conclusion, I would want to discuss the language in CFR 91.129 (c) (1) for arrival or through flights in class D airspace. It states "Each person must establish two-way radio communication with the ATC facility providing air traffic services prior to entering that airspace"... etc. If the approach controller (prior to the tower) handling the aircraft waited until N733ZY was in the D before transferring frequencies, they would have been an ATC facility providing air traffic services in that airspace. Even though the tower hadn't had time to reach out, N733ZY was always available for two-way communication, and they had it prior to entering to satisfy the reg. That could be why they entered the downwind as that's what they were asked to fly.

I was taught if you cannot reach ATC, then you stay out! Unless you're ready to declare an emergency...

Pilot: "That was our fifth call" and Tower: "I don't care if it was 10 calls" ...... the subtitles were way off on this one.

Bust class D? and be a jerk to the tower? Congratulations you're going to the FAA Superbowl

Of course this happens in Commiefornia. Dude probably parks in handicap spots as well. I’d normally say he’s a douchebag doctor or lawyer who thinks they’re above the law but he was flying a ‘77 Cessna 172. And his name is Hess.

Probably should have waited until the aircraft was on the ground, and then just given the number. Arguing on frequency is counterproductive.

"I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed. Call this number, it's their job to get angry."

Keep you shirt on, "Johnny"! lol

That tower guy needs to call the pilot’s mother!

“Johnny”?? Hey lady student pilot, your instructor is unsat. He doesn’t understand the rules regarding airspace and has a short temper….not a good combo for a pilot.

He was probably grandstanding for his female student. Another case of ego-block ashhat. Find another means of employment, and getting girls

It seems this year has been full of pilots entering restricted airspace

Being a controller with more than 30+ years experience FAA and Contract, the controller is being an ass! Odds are he is working clearance, ground, and local by himself, tying the frequencies up so the inbound couldn't make the initial call. I will agree that the pilot should had hung out just outside of the Class D vs. just driving in and maybe saying I've been trying to call but you had the frequency tied up.

0:22 I think the captioning is incorrect. The caption says "...that was our first call" but I think the pilot actually said "that was our _fifth_ call", which would explain his frustration at being reprimanded for failing to contact the tower when in fact he had tried several times.

I'm a former police officer. There were plenty of times that I had it in my mind to give someone a warning, either verbal or written, but they talked themselves into getting a ticket or even an arrest. Same basic concept here.

As someone who knows little about aviation, may I ask: What is the significance of the tower giving the pilot a phone number to write down?

Even if he was polite about it that's gotta be a phone number. He flew all the way into the Delta and entered the downwind before talking to tower. That is unfathomable.

Ive flown into Fullerton many times, lets just say Fullerton Tower has a certain reputation for being major league "fill in the blank" in So-Cal...that being said, the pilot should not of addressed the tower like that.

A great example of being enough of a prick to turn the required paperwork for the tower operator from a chore to a pleasure.

Took me 5 seconds to find the guy online, he's an instructor... Unbelievable.

I must be the ONLY person who did not think ANYTHING the pilot said to the controller was out of line, rude or "Aggressive". Like, not even REMOTELY close. Everyone and their dead grandma in these comments is all claiming he was being a ahole, whereas there is NOTHING in this to suggest him being even remotely close to such. Is everyone THAT spinelessly hypersensitive these days, my god! Ease up you bunch of stanch rule sticklers. And especially if it's someone the tone he used and the "lack of professionalism" of "not using correct titles and terms" - that's just hypersensitive bullshit. Hell, if I was a pilot, I'd have a tough time not becoming a irritated dick towards anyone like that. Like a "WTF did I do to illicit such a response!!?" reaction.

00:22 he said "that was our fifth call", or our first call? Sounds like fifth call for me..

Both Pilot and ATC were at fault.

Just took my discovery flight at KFUL last month and instructor made me do a 360 over Knott's b/c tower was busy and didn't respond right away. A couple 360s seems like an easier that getting a phone number.

I wonder if he still thinks it funny after being stripped all the way down to a bus pass.

There was a mid air collision with a pa 28 and a r22 in chandler Arizona today, would be nice to know the audio

i'm a newb. why have a pen ready?.. thats just adding to pilot workload. and stress. shouldn't the "authority" contact the pilot instead when theyve landed?? Getting the pilot in a bad mood in a airborne plane is asking for to land it on ATC staff parking lot. ATC are counter aggressing with that kind of communication. GET THE FRICKIN' AIRPLANE ON THE GROUND. then slap handbags and word battles together. Jeez. has america learned nothing?

To the people saying it doesn’t matter if approach/center didn’t hand you over, it does. My home airport is a Delta and sometimes SL Approach gets busy and doesn’t toss me over before the FAF. You politely tell them you’re closing in on the airspace, they clear you to talk to tower, it is really a 10 second interaction you’re responsible to do…

It is actually hard to tell who is a fault from just this audio. If that pilot had been given a code by socal and was not just 1200 VFR, they had established 2 way by the correct authority, because SoCal does have the authority to enter you into airspaces, then it could have been the controller who was actually at fault. You don't always talk to the tower when going through an airspace. We really need to know if this plane was squawking with an assigned code and was on flight following or if they had been approved to enter by socal. Either way the second pilot who talks handled it the exact wrong way. Even if a tower ignores you for 10 minutes, you gotta stay clear until they acknowledge you. And never get rude first. That being said I have had controllers be rude with me when they screwed up and I made sure to say that they screwed up so that it was on the recording if anyone, ie the FAA, went backed and listened. But I've only ever had that happen twice. For the vast majority controllers are your friends and are very reasonable.

He tried to bail you out of a call lol. Some people….😂

It seemed like the controller was the belligerent one, if I were the pilot, I would send this recording to the FAA to report the controller. The response to "...what would like like us to do now?" should not be "I'd like you not to be aggressive...". The pilot on the radio definitely did not sound aggressive, only the controller had that tone. I've dealt with controllers handling both ground and tower before who were also pretty aggressive in their tone, definitely should not get promoted to Class "B" if that's how they handle things under stress.

Things could have gone better if the instructor was nicer when explaining his mistake. But ultimately 5th call or 50th you keep circling outside the delta until two comms are established

Her voice changed pretty quick

For those new to the aviation field, be ready to copy a number is usually a sign that you're about to get an ass chewing

Pick your battles. No upside to this.

Karens have invaded aviation now.

He wasn't aggressive. He was PASSIVE aggressive

I'm not a pilot but "Clear the runway I'm going to land" is not good?

Lowering the standards of aviation. I am hoping the student ditched that POS of an instructor. He is everything wrong in aviation.

Well, in flight simulator I just turned off ATC communications and fly straight in and land. Problem solved!

Nice example of lion roar to kitty purr.

Just while we're on the subject: "Aircraft calling, standby" is not established comms and "November XYZ, standby" IS established comms.

Snarky pilot. Being frustrated is not an excuse to bust airspace. His only play: “i declared an emergency, due to fuel exhaustion. You were too busy yammering to receive my emergency declaration, but it is an emergency nonetheless, and I am covered by 91.3b. “ A lot of guys mistakenly believe some ATC person must acknowledge your declaration of emergency. That line of reasoning doesn’t hold up. Similarly, I’ve cancelled IFR in the blind, switching to 1200 and landing at an uncontrolled field, when ATC was too jammed up to clear me for visual. Even if nobody heard it fall, a tree that falls in the forest still falls, and stays down. I did, however contact FSS after landing and have them verify that ATC had my IFR plan closed.

At first this video reminded me of AirforceProud95 in some of his trolling videos lol. But overall a great vid!

Sometimes you need to stop digging and put down the shovel

Not sure how the pilot thought getting snarky on the radio was a good plan.

I think both the pilot and controller are at fault here. The pilot was wrong in not getting clearance, and the controller is being too sensitive. An ATC professional should disregard "a tone" of voice, just like a police officer should when giving out a traffic ticket. Save the lecture for the phone call later. It doesn't help any situation and just causes escalation.

My aircrafts alternator failed at dusk leaving me with no lights or radio seconds before entering a class D. I was low on fuel so I considered it an emergency and visually cleared the airspace and entered a downwind looking for a green light from the tower. Full pattern , no lights. No other aircraft in the pattern so I safely landed. An official truck pulled up with a “ phone number”. When I called youd’ve thought I’d insulted the tower guys mother the way he spoke to me. After I explained I my electrical system had failed he still insisted I “ should’ve landed somewhere else”. I told him I had a five thousand foot runway 6 miles in front of my sick airplane With no traffic, somewhere else would not be wise aaand where were my light signals? I think he realized any report would have included “ never received light signals” so the matter was dropped.

A simple apology would have saved this guy a lot of trouble.

So now we have air rage to go with the road rage!!

Settle down Captain Happy.

Seems there might be more to the story than first appears. It certainly doesn’t smell right. Tower: “Cessna 3ZY, you can’t come into the Delta airspace unless you’re talking to me.” CFI? In N733ZY: “Hey we were handed off from SoCal(?) and you’ve been prioritizing people on the ground so we have … that was our fifth call.” The regulations are not entirely clear that the tower was correct. From 14 CFR 91.129 “Operations in Class D Airspace”: “(c) Communications. Each person operating an aircraft in Class D airspace must meet the fol­lowing two-­way radio communications requirements: (1) Arrival or through flight. Each person must establish two­way radio communications with the ATC facility (including foreign ATC in the case of foreign airspace designated in the United States) *providing air traffic services prior to entering that airspace* and thereafter maintain those communications while within that airspace.” It seems like N733ZY was communicating with air traffic services (SoCall approach), if not Fullerton Tower. This usually isn’t a problem Tower most likely was given the handoff from SoCal approach, although it may be a turf war between the two facilities bled over into projecting it onto this training flight. I sympathize with the instructor, and while not entirely agreeing with his ‘aggressive tone’ (seriously, Fullerton Tower?) I’ve been there. Seeming occurrence: 3ZY was handed off from SoCal approach to Fullerton tower while en route to Fullerton. When switching freqs , 3ZY made five position reports to Fullerton Tower while continuing the VFR arrival, waiting for Tower to respond. If THAT’s how it went down, then Tower-while maybe factually correct-may actually be in the wrong here, and ironically is the actual aggressive tone violator. If the CFI exaggerated or flat-out lied then he should get every butthurt the FAA is going to send his way.

You know, I have a strong suspicion that if they apologized to the controller, admit their fault, they wouldn't have had to copy a phone number..

Clint Eastwood at the Tower: Hello! Cessna Dude: Adios Amigo, I don't like to see bad boys like you at the Tower. Go watch some other planes. You let them get away? Ha ha ha ha ha... Clint Eastwood: Yeah, the planes. That's what I wanted to talk to you about. You entered my airspace without permission and that really freaked me out. Cessna Dude: Listen, Tower Boy, are you making some kind of joke? Clint Eastwood: No, I'm not joking. You see, I don't like people in planes trespassing my airspace. In fact, it's a crazy idea to trespass my airspace. Of course if you were to apologize, like I know you are going to, I might forget about this situation. Cessna Dude: Chill out, bro. Clint Eastwood: Your mistake. Get a pen ready.

Rule # 1: Controllers are there to demonstrate their power. Rule # 2: Controllers have killed thousands. Rule # 3: Controllers say say again, when they should have heard it the first time (you're going in the Hudson.").

Was waiting for "I'm inside!" #N1NR

Talk about passive aggressive!

If this happened when I think it did, I believe the aircraft was on with SCT and was handed off late, as I think I was on frequency at that time.

damn controller was really working with what I am assuming is a CFI or PIC. What a butthead.

That's just like the guy who entered bravo airspace without permission and refused to exit when ordered to do so by ATC.

I'm not very familiar with the LA airspace, but was there even anywhere this pilot could go legally if ATC didn't reply after a hand off between restricted airspaces? What's he supposed to do, 360's over downtown Anaheim? This isn't some class D airport with unrestricted airspace on all sides...