Ne isn't guessing tho. It's not "Is it this? Is it that?" It's "What else could it be?" Even when you've already got the actual answer, Ne doesn't care. "It's a fork." "Oh but it could be used as a comb," Ne says, "or a rake for a miniature railroad landscape." It's exploring possibility. Framing Ne as guessing is such a Di move.
Isn't "what else could it be?" also kind of guessing? Besides, Ne, like every other function, is very broad in its spectrum of things it does, it's best defined as a outside world pattern seeking function.
Yeahhh and since they are both Ni saviors the way they describe it isn't gonna be exactly perfectly accurate. Lol they can't even understand all the possibilities xD Same when they talk about Ti (both being Te its a bit harder for them to completely understand I think.)
But when you're put in a position where some answers just don't work/are wrong, you have to end up using the Ne to approach the problem from multiple angles until you find answers that do work. (It's not wild guessing, they are hypotheses). You can't just defy the laws of physics. Not in all circumstances anyway.
They show that Keri Russell, Anna Edit, Malin Akerman, and Rachel Weinz are Fe/Ne people. Watch videos of those people to try and spot it. This is ultimately all about watching videos of people, and they give away some types in these videos.
This definitely explains why I, an ENFP, have been mistyped as ENTP! I’m definitely Ne dom but I just have a really well developed Te; I gather it in for the Te because I literally ALWAYS have to explain my logic, which often manifests into me explaining why I’m doing what I’m doing in really convoluted ways lolol
This video brought me to an interesting realization. As an INTJ, I use my Ni to try to construct a singular, intraconnected worldview. Over the past few years of trying to understand myself, I noticed that a quality I really admire in other people is when they can regularly give me a new perspective that I had not previously considered. I think that I have subconsciously learned to surround myself with the right kind of people that compensate for my shadow Ne by constantly feeding me perspectives I would not have arrived to on my own. This accelerates the rate at which I can improve my Ni-derived models to better fit reality.
One metric D&S seem to use is not only novelty of concepts but *variety* of concepts. Si/Ne will attempt to find *every* principle or factor that could contribute to a single actual event or experience. Se/Ni will attempt to find a single principle or factor that explains *every* event and experience. For gathering functions, ALL information is relevant information. For organizing functions, one good example or one good pattern is all you need. Note: the process of comparing and contrasting the information to see whether the different sources of information are actually compatible, or are worth caring about, is NOT organizing or gathering. That’s the job of the decider functions.
Nothing ever made sense until I heard you talk about function jumping. Best I can guess I’m an Fe/Ne or at the very least I’m pretty sure both my saviors are extroverted. Makes so much more senses.
That really helps. Thank You. Pretty sure I'm Ne/Te gathering all the RU-vids to explain stuff to peeps. Unless I'm that guy who clicked on the video because I think I'm ENFP 😎
Ne and Ni work on same concepts and reach similar results, but using very different methods. Ne elaborates far to explore ideas that would otherwise not be explored by Ni, it's non-linear and sometimes almost random, as it taps into the creative side of the brain and finds "out of the box" solutions; while Ni uses a more linear function to resolve problems, so it keeps Ne in line to focus on the problem at hand and not venture way too far. Ni's method of resolving the problem is like a snail crawling towards a leaf, it couldn't hop or fly around like Ne would, hence Ne would then give new ideas for Ni to explore that Ni would otherwise not consider, in most cases. That's why they complement each other very well when they're synchronized. Ne would generate idea, idea generates other ideas (they may not be directly correlated due to extreme elaboration), these "other ideas" and the idea itself would lead to problems and "other problems," while other problems could actually be the same sub- or sub-sub-problems identified by Ni. What started out with one idea, one problem, as orderly would descend to chaos and randomness; this randomness creates a plethora of sub-sub-ideas and sub-sub-problems, each would be tackled to see if they are viable, could be resolved and create even better ideas, there would be a clear divergence, it doesn't have to be orderly, doesn't initially carry a priority, but once certain sub-sub-ideas and -problems are identified to be credible, they become prioritized and retained, this allows the ability to become more creative than usual, more far-reaching than Ni, but may lack the focus for refinement to near-perfection. Regardless of the latter, as long as persisted, this Ne function would still be able to identify all of the sub-sub-problems, just no necessarily in a logical and orderly way, they'd be gathered and put together forcing a convergence, there could be gaps and holes to patch up, but these could be dealt with on the way to the ultimate solution, as they would be identified and explored naturally. The end result is the same, just not in the same manner and fashion. The method is wildly different, but this would explain why Ne and Ni could reach to similar results (not exactly the same, but approximately identical ones). By Tack H. This might help you understand Ne better because your understanding is very superficial. It is just as complex as Ni, nothing to do with guessing.
OPS concept of functions insn't that sugar dream you guys from Myers and Briggs talk about. It is very objective and simple: Ne gathers new concepts while Ni organize known concepts. Pretty simple.
All of your explanation are just wonderful theory that makes no sense in reality,you describe functions almost like superpowers,in the real world it is too simple. Ne will guess first,as any intuitive does,no it is not complex,it is about guessing. Guess (N) >> Confirmation (S).
Thank you. I'm not trying to offend anyone, but the chatty, chummy almost flirting "relationship building" is getting to me. I'm interested in this channel's actual content... not getting to know these people, becoming friends with them, or caring about their inter-personal relationship. Just give me info.
Dy Dayton, I understand how you feel and I agree that it has gotten a bit cliche, but the humor sometimes makes it more fun and engaging for me as an ENFP. Often I am thinking about my own anecdotal examples of the concepts and laughing along as they are.
Actually, I just recently began trying typing my friends and family, in order to understand everything better, and I was so damn confused about my own brother, whom I believe I really do know well, and now watching this video helped me find the missing piece of the puzzle, which was actually the fact how people jump over the second function and their third is all over the place.
Omg, that explains why I couldn't exactly figure out my best friend's type! She's Fi/Si and I'm Fi/Ne. That's also why I always think that we are so similar yet so different!! Omg.
@@timo4258 you spend more time keeping track of facts (Si) than making guesses and spotting patterns (Ne). In other words, you respect the facts/details more than you respect filling in the gaps with your intuition. If you are Ti/Ne then you are a stereotypical INTP, but if you are you are Ti/Si, you are a mix between an INTP and an ISTJ. Now figuring out if you are Ti/Si or Ti/Ne is hard but that’s how you know the difference. Hope that made sense.
@@gurnoordhaliwal3389 people keep typing me xF-Ti/Si-SCPB (-BP).. i kinda see my TiSi like trying to narrow down on the Ne ideas i see (what could be true and what doesnt make sense). Just constant sleep processing.
@@timo4258 the two middle functions works like AC current electricity. For half of the people, their auxiliary leads the cycle. For the other half, their tertiary leads the cycle. Both middle functions will be used about half of the time, but the tertiary users (double extraverts/introverts) tend to be less "balanced"
Would this mean that an INFP with savior Ne is consume first and play second? Because the subtype is ExxP? Or is it Sleep second because the second axis is Fi-Si? Even if Si is a demon? I am confused.
Have you guys typed Tyler1 (he's a popular game streamer)? I think he's a Te Ne ESTJ. :D He did a fake esports episode with all of his friends and he made his own commercials, it was classic
Ne is NOT "guessing". It's estimating. Guessing implies it's completely random and meaningless. Ne is like computer with a SPOTLIGHT spitting out and highlighting a bunch of possibilities in order for either your Te or Ti to come to a decision on. And there is NO SUCH THING as "jumpers" that's just someone going through a stress loop, [ignoring] their auxiliary function.
AHHH ENTP here I literally was fast forwarding and stopped and he said, "like the people fast forwarding through this video", and yeah, omg dead. Ne for the win x_x
I feel like this related but maybe not; what is the relation, if any, to the old Empath test? You know the thing they give you before your first Interviewing Techniques type of coursework. Wouldn't it just be easy as pie for lead-NeFi or even Te to blast through a test measuring "extreme to low" empathy? Are "empaths" even a thing? It really just feels like the focused application of your pattern-seeking function with a tool in its hand, like an emotional Tradesman. Here's your story, then you pad out the base line, ask a few "deep dive" questions and the talking does the rest. To my thinking the difficulty of that practice is simply to be able to perform that skill reliable regardless of patient/individual. Because sometimes you start riffing and it doesn't feel like it's going anywhere but then other times it's jazz.
Pretty sure my son is an FiSi and it's odd to watch. Very much observe Ne in his life. But he's organizing the sensory like it's nbd. Doesn't know he's doing it.
I agree it's odd to watch. This is what I said in the comment section that might interest you :D : Omg, that explains why I couldn't exactly figure out my best friend's type! She's Fi/Si and I'm Fi/Ne. That's also why I always think that we are so similar yet so different!! Omg.
Don't you need to gather concepts (Ne) begore you organize them (Ni)? Where's my mistake? How do you *know* that we only use 4 functions? I still think we skip from function to function but have some "favorite functions" while others are more difficult to use.
So what's the difference between gathering concepts and gathering sensory facts? This channel is very accurate at typing people, but it complicates awfully simple things like differences between Se and Ne... I mean, ENFPs are way different from ESFPs in the real world.
I have 3 savior functions... not 2... but my inferior function is sooooooooooooooooo bad... my dominant function is too well fed.... working on that demon... I'm praying a lot... so... victory awaits
would be great if you guys could consider looking for other patterns of interaction instead of completing each others sentences.. While I agree with others it’s very endearing, in terms of logical content, only you two and long time viewers know if you are actually on the same page, but I have to try to assess each time an overlap occurs whether I also am able to make the micro jump in logic. Thanks
Well this is awkward....The irony of this video playing after the one I just commented on... About jumping the gun with guesses before even knowing if my question had any ground....
Guessing game implies one right answer, therefore Ne is not guessing game. Ne is the connection game. This is connected to that, which is connected to that, which is connected to-- what were we talking about?
I think you misunderstood. What you are asking wouldn't be possible in the slightest. What Dave and Shanon meant is that Ne saviours would more hastily start the guessing game without bothering to get too much into the details of subject matter they are guessing about. Which is contrary to what a Si saviour would do, which is be really reluctant to engage the guessing game before theyt have all the facts.
@@djuradjuric7161 But then isn't Ne largely about gathering information? I remember them talking about this before where saviour Ne/Se are gather, gather, gather vs Ni/Si being organizers. Ni/Si first reaction to stress is to organize known information while Ne/Se reaction to stress is to go out and gather. Ni-organizes concepts/patterns while Si organizes facts right? I guess I view "organize" as putting together either the patterns (Ni) or facts (Si) to draw conclusions or make sense of the information known. In other words, "gather" to me is gathering information in the form or either facts or concepts while "organize" is about putting those concepts or facts together to draw conclusions. "Guessing" seems more like something an organizer would thus do by drawing conclusions from their known information. IDK, I may very well be over thinking this but guess vs gather seem like opposites.
Ne *observes* the world and notices patterns and associations between things, people or events that aren't linearly related. Ne takes in ideas, concepts and immaterial patterns - the unseen threads that connect otherwise unrelated things. This includes finding a new way of doing an already existing process, ascertaining another's hidden motives, figuring out causative links between things or events, uncovering truths relating to immaterial concepts like good vs. evil, whether truth exists or noticing how a train looks like a serpent. These intangible ideas are very different from what we would call Si *facts* and *information*, which deal with concrete reality. This includes knowing the names for obscure objects (eg. the name for a specific sail on a boat), having an extensive vocabulary with accurate meanings for the words, remembering the exact specifications for your computer, or knowing the specific date of a historical event. These Si facts tend to be stored and organised in a sort of internal memory bank, while Ne concepts often vanish as quickly as they come. Remember that these are perceiving/observing functions. These observations are not assessed for merit until they are passed to the judging functions for analysis.
I watched until the end. But, at the onset, my intuition told me where you were going with it. And, now, I'm frustrated because I feel like a fool for not trusting my intuition & sorta wasting my time.
Ugh, It’s like trying to listen to robots explaining consciousness.... Ne isn’t “guessing” lol. It’s better framed as “intuition”. And intuition isn’t “wrong”. Just like science isn’t “wrong”. One is just a little faster than the other. (Which has its benefits and setbacks each) You’re right, lead Ne’s don’t “organize facts”, we just know and react. So, for example, if you’re holding your hand over a fire, Ne says to move. Doesn’t take time to measure or process it. JUST MOVES. Which can be highly anxiety provoking, as you can imagine. But it’s necessary and beneficial! So lean into it!
You contradicted yourself with prior videos, in another you lambasted MBTI for describing the types too vaguely (which I agree with) but then said "It's plain and simple, Ne = Gathering Concepts, Ni = Organizing Concepts"
