Neck Turning - Are smaller groups possible? 

Thank You for performing these neck turning test.Very informative. A couple of suggestions that could improve the scientific value. First, RL26 is a compressed load in the 6.5 case and due to the inconsistencies caused by dealing with a compressed load, using RL26 is masking the actual improvements in group size and ES that are possible by neck turning. Use H4350 , I4451, or RL16. Second, neck turning has to be approached with accuracy in mind. Knowing the neck diameter of your chamber and the neck outside diameter of a turned case is paramount. With this knowledge, you can subtract these two and understand the gap created by neck turning. In my own testing, first testing native Hornady brass, then a 0.004" gap, then a 0.006" gap; the group size shrank by 0.25" and ES plummeted from the mid-20s to 3 fps when the gap was increased to 0.006". Measure a fired case to determine the chamber neck diameter. Pushing a bullet through the neck of a fired case by hand will indicate that your gap is correct. It should push through with almost no resistance. Any cases that feel tighter or looser than the norm will impact the ES and should be reworked or discarded. They'll look like a flier on paper and You'll see them in your chronograph results. This effect overshadows case volume. Of all the traditional case preparation steps like weight or volume sorting, primer pocket uniforming, flash hole deburring, etc., neck turning combined with annealing produces the greatest impact on accuracy and low ES. I'm not saying these techniques don't have value. In over 30 plus years of accuracy shooting while applying these techniques, I have never seen them impact accuracy results the way that annealing and now neck turning have. I'm working on my brother's 6.5 now. With annealing and neck turning only, we have a couple of loads under 5 fps ES with Hornady brass and sub-MOA accuracy. Finally, I would also suggest that until you anneal and neck turn your waisting your time ladder load testing. Especially until you have the gap set right, your ladder load test will miss important nodes and flat spots in your ladder results. You'll reject great accuracy loads, because the ES is too high. When in fact it's the neck gap that's causing the high ES. Just like you said, 53% of top shooters neck turn. There has to be a reason. Not sure what David Dale is doing, but he indicates similar results.

First off I enjoy your video. One thing is like to recommend that I think will help your groups greatly. Learn and practice proper trigger control/follow through. Your taping the crap out of your trigger. Press, break and hold. Hold that trigger back until the recoil pulse is over. Your finger if flying off the trigger as soon as the shot breaks. Try this and I guarantee you will see a improvement in your groups.

The absolute best disclaimer I have ever heard. Obtained .1 to .3 MOA Improvement with Hornady brass. Now repeat this test exactly but compare annealed vs non-annealed.

People giving you advice here is absolutely hilarious to me. Thanks for the videos man. Always appreciated.

I appreciate these vids. I would have not been able to use my hornady neck turner if it was not for your video. I had that unsquare cutting head took. But mine came with a back up that was square. I love knowing that this may very well help my groups!

Improvement is an improvement. And was worth it. Certainly, the longer seated bullet did very well. Of course, there is all the other stuff like case volume differences, case weight, flash hole, dies used and different powders. But all been the same it definitely showed improvement of very standard factory brass. Very good groups for hunting in any case. I neck turn my Win 243wssm to stop case splitting and it certainly helps that plus better groups.

I would like to see the difference match primers might make. Especially on the ES and SD. Magnum primers can use havoc in some instances.

Also, I may actually buy the Hornady neck turner. That thing looks sweet compared to the rcbs that I have. Also I did see an improvement after I turned the necks using Winchester brass which most consider poor brass, but it works.

It's 2022 and most brass must be made of unobtanium especially 357 mag and 6.5 Creedmoor. My answer is to lube 308 well and pass it through a 6.5CM full length sizing die and trim. I've been very successful but the necks can sometimes vary with the shrinking of the diameter of the neck so now I'm neck turning. My shrunken 308 brass now performs like factory and depending the make and lot of the factory brass it shoots tighter groups. Smaller groups are possible.

Really appreciate your channel and content all the way from South Africa. Question Would neck turning help in a standard factory barrel. I know it's a must in a match barrel or custom barrel. ?

Yes sir I just started turning all my brass necks I’m still waiting for my inside neck turner to come in

Nice video. One comment. .1 group size reduction on a .5 group load is a 20% improvement. That’s a huge delta. Looking at your results in terms of the delta as percentage produces very significant results. If you aren’t competing it may not matter though.

I've been neck turning. Honestly I use the rcbs neck turner with a drill at low speeds, and don't get the brass to hot. I'm shooting half inch groups with my .06 so far.

It is a great video, as a suggestion I would make the comparison a little more video friendly. For people watching your videos for the first time, it can be a little confusing the comparative results.

A different video has me wondering, are groups on neck turned brass better because of the uniformity, or because the surface of the neck holds better in the barrel with the additional texture to the surface?

when do you turn your necks ? when it's brand new OR after first firing ?

I’m a subscriber and like what you do. Thanks for your efforts in the reloading realm. Bravo! Might I add slight constructive criticism. It appears you are “slapping the trigger”. I see an abrupt squeeze and release. Try a slower trigger press and hold the trigger back for a couple seconds as you complete your follow through. I think you’ll see improvements in your group sizes way beyond the benefit of neck turning.

Neck turn before annealing because the brass is harder then?

Does it make any difference with group size from the Chronograph being on the barrel . @ 1 group with and 1 without .

BAR... Which neck turning kit would you buy now if you were to do it over again knowing all you do now??

Not true that the only reason to neck turn is to remove variability in case dimensions, as stated at various points. Precision shooters often have their chambers cut to a size smaller than SAAMI spec in order to have the case supported in precise alignment with the bore's axis, and where this is done, neck turning is required to allow the case to chamber at all.

Doesn't the bayonet affect harmonics and group size? Of course it does.

I watch one of your previous videos talking about using alcohol to measure the capacity of rifle cases. In your vedio you used 91% alcohol. I was only able to purchase 99% alcohol. Does that change the formula to convert to water weight?

I highly recommend you get a better rifle for these tests.

Watching the bell curve distribution of group size from 2.940 to 2.860 is making my math brain giggle. So strange that 2.940 and 2.860 are the best and second best respectively pretty consistently.

Unless you a stating what chamber specs your neck turning for , factory chamber or a certain tight neck ? Then all this is meaningless. If for a factory spec chamber , then if your not also practising partial neck sizing and maintaining that second shoulder with a body type die and separate neck size die then your not getting the real benefits of neck turning in a factory chamber . For a match tight neck chamber you are forced to neck turn the case to correct fit and the accuracy benefits should be self evident .