Despite the controversy that currently abounds, and while it's not always necessary, learn how the process of neck turning can be absolutely vital to achieve the highest accuracy. Watch and see why and how it's done!
If your referring to Erik Cortina, I believe he has done a neck turning vid and does neck turn. I believe he and all other F Class shooters on Utube do neck turn even Lapua cases to a wall thickness of 8 to 13 thou. He and others including benchrest guys do not neck size anymore. Very in depth series as always, nicely done sir.
That's right! if I understood EC correctly what he was saying is: invest in some Lapua brass and keep the prep to its minimum wich is very different to don't prep brass... Most long distances shooter do turn their brass and bench rest rifle do not have ejector and the reason is explained in this video!
You are full of knowledge, but I’m sorry I think it’s 10 year old knowledge. A lot is still true, but not all. No one needs to neck turn unless your using many fired brass.
Good video and opinion on the advise from competitors'. I've done the exact same thing converting an old Forrester trimmer to turn necks. With our shortages lately I started converting 308 brass into 6.5 Creedmoor, very successfully too but because of the shoulder set back the necks became very thick at the base often leaving a donut inside the neck at the base. A quick pass thru with a "G" letter drill (.261") would remove that donut and then I would turn the necks to .00145 (brass thickness) in the Forrester and resize again. I have a Savage 12FV and with stock Remington or Winchester brass it would shoot .5" groups or so at 100 yards. Imagine my pleasure when after neck turning both the stock brass and my converted 308 that rifle started posting 5 shot 3/8" groups, actually just under if I did my part. IMHO neck turning defiantly makes a big difference and I now neck turn all my brass, even for my hunting rounds in 270 Win.
Star-line has a well earned reputation for very consistent brass. The first time I bought star-line .44rem mag I was blown away. I had been reloading for a little while and when I weighed my new brass it was the first time that every case in a batch was EXACTLY the same weight. I was embarrased for all the factory brass I had been reloading up till that time.
Gave up neck turning after I discovered the Lee collet neck sizer. Virtually irons the neck to concentric thickness. Used a ball mic to prove it to myself.
Hello GB. I have an interesting story regarding the consistency of Starline brass. A few days ago I was loading some low power plinking loads for the .30-30 Winchester using 7 gains of Red Dot and 110gr copper plated round nose bullets into some virgin Starline brass. As I was dumping the powder into the brass powder catch and giving it a quick weigh on my RCBS balance scale, it would then get dumped into a plastic RCBS funnel into the case on the loading block. The scale and funnel were then both set aside on the bench and the case then went into the press and the bullet was seated. I took the case from the press and dropped it into an ammo can in bulk as I was doing about 300 cartridges. I noticed on one occasion when I went to pick the funnel back up to charge the next case, there was a decent sized pile of spilled powder laying right by the funnel spout on the bench- I knew right away I had a serious problem. There was about 5 grains of powder laying there and I'd already tossed the 2 grain charged cartridge into the ammo can with the 150 or so other cases! I think the powder locked up inside the funnel tube on top of the case mouth and failed to dump until it was set onto the bench and I obviously hadn't noticed. This was very bad news and I knew it may involve pulling every single bullet and dumping all the powder as it was unacceptable to leave this for obvious reasons. As it turned out, I had a digital scale in my drawer I almost forgot about so I set it on the bench and started weighing cases. To my surprise these cartridges were not more or less than one grain away from 263 grains (if memory serves me) and this also speaks volumes for the consistency of Campro bullets. After weighing about 15 or 20 cases, I set one on the scale that weighed about 258 grains- I set it aside and pulled the bullet in the press with my bullet pulling pliers; and to my relief the case contained two grains of powder. I now give the funnel a few good taps with the brass powder catch and make damned sure all the powder poured out.
I only use my Forster tool for stuff like magnums. For accuracy chamberings I mostly use a Sinclair hand neck turner which is incrementally a bit more precise. As you know, it's a case of diminishing returns. After a certain point, the things you do might be of benefit, and perhaps some of it is just mental? In fact, regardless of all the people that keep harping that there is no benefit, no accuracy improvement by cleaning primer pockets; I DO IT ANYWAY! It's so easy to do. So I do it. It certainly has no negative effect, it's just good housekeeping and keeps your loading block from accumulating that oily, gritty crud. I like doing it and that's reason enough!
Hello Gunblue490! I am interested in the neck turning process you describe and am curious as to what your opinion is regarding the Hornady neck turning tool?
Good stuff. I've not got to the neck turning yet. Currently using Lapua Palma .308 brass and Berger bullets and getting good results. Useful to have another option though should I need more.
Out of curiosity, in order to ensure perfect case alignment within the chamber when using a fire-formed and neck resized cartridge, shouldn't the case be oriented exactly as it was oriented when originally fire-formed? Or will this really make any measurable difference?
There would be absolutely no difference. The reason is quite simple. The chamber is perfectly round, thus the case is formed perfectly round. Any internal out of round of the case body is only the combustion chamber. If the neck is concentric, and if the case is fitting the chamber, the bullet will be concentric to the bore axis. About 45 years ago, my late friend and I performed a test with his target grade 22-250, using individual cases that we neck sized at the range after each firing. We marked the heads with nail polish, and rotated the cases 30° on each firing, using individual targets for each case. We then fired each case for the same number of rounds without rotating them. Group sizes were all identical.
Another highly educational video…loving the series. You sir are a very talented educator…always learning some new. Thank you for the work you are putting into this series. Good bless 👍
I have to agree as a fairly new to reloading guy. Roughly 4 years of active powder in the case and sending the round I made down range. The results are most definitely in the barrel. I have a few fairly decent PRODUCTION rifles. And I also have a couple self built rifles that are sporting Krieger barrels . The rifles that I built with Krieger barrels. Essentially shoot everything that’s reasonably loaded sub MOA. However the production rifles man those things are so picky. I have to seriously take everything into account when developing a sub MOA cartridge for them. It’s a night and day difference between the custom barrels and factory ones.
Sir, does it make a difference in what order between neck trim and neck / full length re-sizing? I shoot precision rifle series 6.5 Creedmoor, Lapua SRP brass, 140 gn Hornady ELD-M’s & 140 gn Berger VLD’s, H4350. I am very miticulous with all measurements but am curious as to order of steps in some aspects. I usually anneal & clean after resizing to get lube off cases. Then trim and debur. But curious if this affects headspace or any other aspect of my handloads. Should I neck trim first before resizing? Keep in mind I am reloading in large batches 100-200 at a time so very time consuming. Thank you. Scott Beare
It's quite simple. You simply advance the cutter in gradual increments to barely make contact on the highest side. If the cutter wants to cut 360 degrees, you cut nothing, because it's concentric. If it has a high side, advance the cutter until it removes brass to no more than 270 degrees around the circumference, leaving at least 90 degrees of the original low side. Perform the same operation on the same lot of brass, without changing depth. Never remove the low side, and never allow the cutter to cut into the shoulder.
@@GunBlue490 I got it . I can see cutting too far into the neck causing neck separation from the shoulder of the case . And that's a bad situation to be in . The neck would be left in the chamber and stop the next round from being chambered . It would require a special tool to remove the obstruction or a visit to a gunsmith . That lot of brass and primers would have to be discarded Maybe the bullets and powder could be saved .
No, simply because there's no neck to isolate the bullet, and the inertia of such massive bullets are not influenced by relatively small thousandths of an inch. Though they can be very accurate, such cartridges are typically not used in the traditional benchrest precision accuracy game.
I feel ya…I’d love to have $700 to get some Peterson 6.5prc…alpha don’t make em so far or I’d go there…I’ve bought 200 from em and aside from bein great brass the box they give you I love…
This ammo handloading series is not about accurizing rifles. Yes, lapping is vitally necessary with traditional cut rifling and all the tooling imperfections it creates, but gains nothing with modern smooth hammer forged and stress relieved barrels. We're seeing the last days of cut rifling that was invented in the 1400's, though many will hang onto it until the bitter end.
Just jumped in the 6.5prc game and glad .308 is my main squeeze for brass anywhere this side of the galaxy is non existent….lookin to catch a ride on enterprise to see what mars,Jupiter,and Pluto may have to offer…got 1bx 147match I’ve fired half of just to have 10cases to do some development…don’t have the best powders for prc but h4350 under 130tmk printed .94” and me still gettin used to my waypoint..great trigger…thanks a bushel..when you speak…I listen…50yrs to share is better than anything other than 60 for conformation on ideas that have been considered and tried….matt
I don't think Erik Cortina puts out deliberate bunk to defeat his competition. He seems like a straight shooter. I don't always agree with what he says and don't always agree with your statements but sure do appreciate what you both do!!!
I think gunblue has confused "neck sizing" with "neck turning". Eric interviewed hundreds of competitors on "neck sizing"; which none did. I've seen him "neck turn".
@@edwolfe4234 We don't know if Erik is even the one Gun Blue was talking about. I just mentioned him because he competes in the shooting sports, and gives a lot of advice. Just because he competes does not mean his info he puts out is bad in order to give him an edge. I watched the neck sizing video from Erik Cortinas and it was very informative. I don't think all the competitors he interviewed were lying either.
It's made to very exacting standards for highly uniform and consistent quality, which means that it will perform the same from one lot to another. Sierra Matchking bullets have a long standing record of excellence, going back over half a century. However, whether this or any ammunition performs accurately in a particular firearm can only be determined by testing, because barrel harmonics may or may not be attuned to the bullet barrel time. Buy just one box until you know.
Good morning, and thanks for sharing, and I think I just became your 100th patreon member this morning. I think it will be worth it as you are by far what I see as the best shooting instructor on the internet.
Ideally, the best situation is to take nothing off. Bench rest rifles are typically custom chambered to allow from .001 to .002" neck clearance for bullet release. Most factory rifles have much larger clearance. Making the neck concentric is not a matter of how much to take off, but as little as possible, to achieve as near perfect concentricity, but without turning anything off the thin side. A ball micrometer will reveal exactly how much material is on each side of the case neck. If the difference is less than .001", remove nothing. Just adjust the cutter very gradually to the point that it takes no more than 270° off the case. If the cutter insists on cutting brass the entire way around when it's barely touching, leave it alone, because it's already true. Never cut off the thin side at all.
Lapua brass certainly does not require turning, but does require turning a wallet inside out, and it's not always available. I use it in a few calibers, but I don't recommend that investment for non competitive shooting unless one has money to burn.
@@GunBlue490 In lower pressure cartridges such as 6.5x55, with timely annealing, the brass can last a long time, 15 to 20 firings. Instead of investing in the equipment, it was less expensive to buy the brass. Case weights are within 0.1 grains, and the alloy is likely superior, and perhaps why it lasts so long. For high pressure cartridges, buying Lapua may not be the better investment. And if one requires precision rounds in a variety of cartridges, then it would be better to turn the necks. If the individual understand their options, they might make a better choice. BTW, love your channel. Great stuff.
Neck turning is the process of equalizing the thickness of the neck around its circumference, which is generally unnecessary for high grade cases made by Sako, Lapua, etc. It's only done once in the life of a case.
Is there a go/nogo test to determine whether or not neck turning is required? I have heard that if a bullet fits in a fired case neck turning is not required. Do you agree?
The test you speak of relates to inside neck reaming to remove the donut that occurs after repeated firings or caliber reduction and has nothing to do with concentricity. A ball micrometer is used to measure neck thickness. For ultimate accuracy issues, I would turn any cases where the difference exceeds .001"
I have a bunch of 270 brass that I don’t load for. Do you think I could turn it into 8mm Mauser with annealing first? Ideally, I would use 30-06, but I don’t have much. Would you resize to 30-06 first?
It's quite a straightforward operation. Trim the cases to 2.240". A trim die is faster if you have many. If the cases have been fired more than a couple of times, annealing will prevent splits Simply brush the inside of the necks and bodies of the cases lightly with Lee lube and run them into a full length 8mm sizing die. Do not allow lube to get on the shoulders or dents will be created. I recommend Lee full length dies because they employ a gradually tapered sizing stem that will easily expend the necks. You'll be expanding by three calibers, but it shouldn't be a problem, however an intermediate 30 caliber stem can make things go easier. Finish by inside neck reaming to 8mm to remove the thickened shoulder brass that moved to the neck.
Not at all. It's simply equalizing the thickness around the circumference. Never cut into the thinner side. At least 30% of its original diameter should be left alone.
It appeared as if there were brass shavings that this process produced. Do you ever measure the minimum thickness on a brass wall to determine if it's still safe..if so...what amount of wall thicknes is acceptable/unacceptable...thanks..awesome videos. Seems like having the bullet pointed straight down bore would be the most important aspect of accuracy. Great explanation to a newbie like me.
The best reason to do all of this is to know exactly how much of your accuracy is you, which must be, if all the mechanicals are as good as they can be, the rest of what dissatisfies you
