Failure. Honda gave us a great looking CL Scrambler prototype mock-up and settled for this cut in half fuel tank ridiculous sewer pipe exhaust instead. The designer should be flogged for this abortion.
You will have to wait for the Himalayan and the Scram 450 liquid cooled to really put RE vs Honda in a fair match up. This makes no sense to have the slug and cheaper Scram or Himalayan 411 alongside the better built (more urban, less rough) Honda. Damn, Honda should have really changed the design of that tank and frame. This looks like a scramlerized Rebel which is very odd to me (add the ugly exhaust and no protection under the bike) and I fall into the hater category. Stop making ugly bikes Honda...seriously! I expected spokes, more dirt capabilities and a more retro style from Honda. Probably a good seller but I guess good sellers are not to my taste. Sad because I wanted that scrambler so badly with that engine...what a let down!
I agree! Looks too much like the whole Rebel lineup. If they spent so much time re-engineering the rear frame section, why couldn’t they have redesigned the bottom of the gas tank to align with the bottom of the new, flat seat pan. THAT would be a more authentic retro look. . . and couldn’t they create a slimmer exhaust/muffler???!!! Another Rebel parts bin effort.
Completely agree, went out to my local Honda dealer to take a look.....that tank / frame combination looks hideous, would have purchased one if not for this awful ugly mash up.
looks like crap. but everything else should be great, reliability, build quality, power, etc. just wish it wouldnt look like utter crap. whats with the thrown in white bits at the front? they ran out of spraypaint halfway?
Because it’s not good enough, Honda India make it with about 28 hp so it’s gutless like the market there seems to demand. If it was released in Australia for example it would need to compete with cb300 and Z400, MT 3 etc and they have about 35 hp or more.
@@Paul-kp1tu its because its air-cooled. But 27hp is ok for a small bike. The RE Meteor have good enough sales numbers to make it to Europe, with a even more gutless engine. Less HP means less tax in many countries. I think it would sell good just by the looks, the air-cooled engines looks nicer also, so if you want to use it as a custom templet for a build, it is more attractive to the builders.
Honda missed a trick. That 350 market would’ve been theirs in Europe. Why do that though when plenty of Europeans are still being fooled into paying big bucks for a bike.
I don't see how the CL500 would knock off the Enfield scramblers. The Honda looks like a generic asian bike (read horrible), the 180 deg crank is not a good idea, 270 would have been better. I don't like it.
@@kuldeepmakwana7242 bikes since the 70's are the result of some art & marketing scheme. I like the older bikes that were the result of the engineering process. Yeah, I'm old too, so that's my bias.
I mean c'mon it's just a rebel 500 with a different look. The Scram is at least based on a capable platform, I don't like Honda's approach to the scrambler even if I like Honda better as a brand and I would buy their bike all things being equal. I'm also certain RE will be making a more powerful Himi and Scram soon, they see the competition and all they're lacking is a bit of power.
I just think the Honda Rebel is an ugly thing and this scrambler is too Rebelish for me but am a fan of the Enfields look. Bias I have an Orange Crush Interceptor.
Bruh, we live in a world where anyone can change their genders. Don’t get your panties in bunch over something that can easily be replaced in 5 minutes.
I like the idea of it .....but......it doesn't hide its rebel underpinnings quite enough for me and the engine (whilst decent and peppy enough) with its 180 crank just isn't very interesting- crying out for the 270 treatment like just about everything else these days... I had a cb 500x for a while (which I think is the pick of the bunch with this powerplant) and in the end the boring nature of the engine made me sell it.
@@bena3341 you and @motobob are cracking me up, so the CL500 has better ground clearance, lighter weight, comparable suspension and lower seat height than the CB500x soooooo why are yall saying it's not going to be as competent off road? from where i'm sitting id much rather have the flat seat off road than the saddle of the CB500x. both need better tires to be good off road.
It's a bit expensive for the bike, but for some reason, I can't but like this little thing a lot. Simple, straightforward, sensible. It just makes sense, with its aesthetics that looks half way a concept.
Teach me! I tried a Himalayan and yes between 40 and 80 kph it was amazing, but below and above, just awfully buzzy or slow... Never been offroad, but i like a bit of power offroad as well! So why?? Just for cruizing??
Its a pretty horrible looking bike. And it has a crunched up riding position standing up. Whats so genius about the scram411 is that its based of a offroad bike. Much more sensible to make a scrambler of a offroad bike than a cruiser. To even make the looks of this passable, you need a new less bulky exhaust. A tank cover that makes the tank lines straight and hides the frame of the ugliest cruiser on the market. Then it might be OK, but that is a costly affair. I would just go for a Scam411 or a Fantic Caballero The accessories looks good though, hope they sell them separately, so i can use them on a older Honda build. 👍
Rode one yesterday. Fun little bike. It’s back to basics, all bike and no BS. It’s got enough power and torque to make it fun. It handles great, stops great and it’s comfortable too.
@@dante556 Hey Dante....yeah mine was my second bike too, at the age of 16, my first was the far superior Kawasaki AR50, but i wanted a trail bike, soHonda it was, all these years later now riding a Moto Guzzi Audace 1400.....
Let's face it, the fact that Honda is competing with Royal Enfield is a picture of the motorcycling industry's race to the bottom. Those of us from the glory days of Honda wish for a bit more. I think I'll jump into a time machine and buy a spanking new VT500 Ascot. Ah, we didn't appreciate them back then with our lust for V4 victory. Today they would be a tour de force in that entry level spot.
Is it about accessibility though.? People and especially the young don’t have money to throw around on motorcycles. £10k plus on something you use twice a year in the uk is ridiculous. These are all year round bikes.
My bloody minded quick review: Take a Honda Rebel 500 with a boring parallel twin, add an ugly overweight exhaust, no dirt capabilities (wrong tire size, wrong rims with style over function, wrong suspension set up with no travel, no ground clearance...) add a few TaoBao/Alibaba/Wish accessories (white plastic, it is cheaper, you can spray it yourself later), a cheap scrambler (CL) sticker on a Rebel poorly designed recycled tank, no protection for the engine or radiator, no bash plate, skid plate of any sort, no crash bar, radiator cover...and voilà! Honda CL 500 Scrambler. But does it scramble? Now compare it to a 2000usd cheaper sluggish Royal Enfield (411) and make it look cool!
Give it time and there will be a ton of accessories… think as a foundation you could make a quality bike out of the Honda… the exhaust would be the first to change 😂
@@Gurman01 Even worst, you will end up with a 9000usd bike that cannot scramble...I am a bike lpver and I had about 20 Hondas, but this one is...not for me. Even for builders, that tank design and frame is a nightmare.
Tried one today and I am a beginner. It was really friendly and very easy to ride and position on the road. Found myself really trusting the handling at once and picking lines and having fun. It’s probably the easiest and most manageable motorcycle I’ve tried so far, could ride it slow and tight. Perfect for around town riding. Also surprised that my 199cm fit on it. Tried the NC750x and CB500x and they are nice but more bike to handle. The CL500 might be simple fun and a success for Honda. I wanted one. Love the look too.
Totally different bikes. The harris frame on the Himmie is sublime. The long stroke engine is a beauty. You can do Morocco on one. You can maintain them yourself The Himmie oozes character. Us older riders love them as it's a trip down memory lane. However as a first bike, a mile muncher, an entry to faster bikes, build quality, the honda.
Basics are good. Less to break. Honda is definitely great with R&D. And quality is way more. My opinion obviously. But having to have had 2 Hondas over the years, my thought. I don't know about RE. Just what I've heard. Mostly in comparison to triumphs. But I do like the looks of this bike. And if I were 30 years younger, I'd check it out. 😂. Thanks again for another great review. 👍👍
I don't think they will release it, but it would be some proper bike to keep for many years to come. I think that engine is on par with 700 Yamaha, maybe even better.
@@CaseyJones88 also believe will come a CBR750r with the same engine as the hornet and transalp 😎 Triumph, Yamaha, Aprilia, Honda, they all are using the same engine to create new bikes
Pictures look amazing for the CL750 and GB750, only thing that concerns me is the exhaust doesn't look fat enough for all the Euro5 gubbins, which means it ain't coming here?
For me only downside of this bike is 180 crank... It can go off road I'm sure of it, just like old sleds and scramblers can, it just need a bit of customisation. I will wait for proper RE scrambler 450/650 and then decide what to buy.
I owned a 1994 Suzuki GS500 from 2007 until last year. I took that bike from 13k miles to 35k miles and it needed nothing but a clutch cable. Great bike. Not long after buying it I bought a new front sprocket with one extra tooth. It made the bike cruise wonderfully and didn't make it sluggish. It made the bike smooth as butter. It had a 6 speed gearbox so you can stay in the lower gears a little longer if you need to and I didn't. It was better with the bigger front sprocket.
The exhaust is putting me off! Think I'd still go for the Enfield or the Motomorini xcape. P.s It isnt really off road either so pass. I'd prob buy a Zontes GK 350 and change the tyres before this.
Good video! I am a bit surprised you don't "get" the Enfield, as even if it is slow and underpowered, it gives most riders a real sense of satisfaction and a realization that you don't need tons of power or money to have a good time on a very competent bike. As opposed to the Honda, the Enfield's engine has a wonderful "old school" feel to. And I think the Enfield designers have really hit the nail on the head when it comes to creating a great mixture of old and new. That said, I totally agree with you that Honda missed an opportunity to make their scrambler more retro. The tank just doesn't look right.
Well for me there's a sweet spot of enough power to be fun, but not so much that it's unnecessary or overpowered for road use. For me the RE fell well below the fun threshold...
If anything has the potential to be an ‘Enfield Killer’ it’s Honda’s CB/GB 350. Similar in appearance to the Hunter 350, basically a baby Bonneville. However, it’s nonexistent outside of Indianand Japan- Honda needs to give it a chance in the US and Europe. I dare say increasingly more people in the UK are interested in low-CC retros.
It'll eat into their CB300R / CMX300 market so I highly doubt they will bring it over. I would love a GB350 in the US market but knowing Honda they will always be the last guy to the party. Always, and that generally works for them in the car market but in the motorcycle market it's a terrible market strategy. Trends move quick and die fast.
Yes, I believe GB350 would do well in Europe but as it still doesn't have the feel of Enfield. People buy Enfield for the feel it gives. GB350 also has very tall gearing which no one likes.
If the CB/CL 500s are 5999, then the CB/GL 350s are going to be 5499 at lowest, since the small RE are about 5000. Honda need not drop it any lower since the MT03 is in that range. So will you save $500£ but get 27hp over 47hp with water cooling and ABS. I'd buy the 500x or CL
If this cl500 is launched in India at pricing below royal Enfield 650 twin , then it can surely bring in real good sales and buyers will get good option.
I prefer the mechanical spec of the 500 twin Honda although the tank is a bit too similar to the rebel and looks a bit diminutive for this version. A deeper, squarer looking tank with side Knee pads would be great.
Tank is too small for me and the exhaust looks too much. Tank 12L, MPL 16.8 = 201 range. Shame, apart from that it looks great and I would consider buying one. Colours are much better than the new transalp.
Definitely looks better without the front guard and headlight shroud but I still can't get over the looks. It looks too similar to the rebel for me and that just feels like a cash grab for me
Yeah the RE will never be close to as reliable, but that's where you'll put the $2k+ you save over the Honda 😂 and get a more capable bike in the process.
This is a good looking bike. I think they've hit that single bike highway/city commuter sweet spot in terms of power without then loosing out too much on fuel economy. The Scram411 is just that tiiiiny bit under powered if you need to mix in highway speeds into your daily commute.
It’ll be interesting if RE punches out their existing engines a bit and tried to get a bit more power for western buyers without jacking the price up much. I own an Interceptor 650 (and have been riding a long time), and it seems like RE is really coming into its own now.
@@TerraMagnus they have a 450cc Himalayan coming around by this year end, which is expected to be more powerful and with a lots of features. .. the initial launch is in India and probably will take couple of months to launch outside. . .
Great Video, Agreed...I like the looks of it but it's a road bike (rebel) masquerading as a scrambler like everyone else's scrambler. Whereas the Enfield scram is built off an Adventure Bike, the Himalayan. For offroad I'd choose the Royan Enfield all day long but I'm not itchy boots so the CL500 wins.
never liked the looks of the rebels and this one on the tank- looks like a half-tank is there. If you're going retro, gotta lose that 4 led headlight. Also no panniers with that exhaust, Not a fan, but that's the great thing- lots of other choices out there.
I had a Rebel 500 for a week as a hire bike when my KTM Duke was written off and hated it. Wouldn't be put off this but the CB500X is a batter bet I'd say for my money.
Scram looks better, the CL has the extra pep to make it more usable for me, test ride will seal the deal. Also should have mentioned the huge difference in service intervals over the RE
@Devil Bird Not sure which bit your question is about. If its servicing, 3000 miles for the SCRAM - 8000 miles for the CL - so certainly for me that would be 2 services a year for the SCRAM 1 for the CL
@Devil Bird Air cooled v Water cooled the oil gets much more variation of temps in air cooled so takes more of a beating, also older style valve adjusters on SCRAM - easy to work on but more prone to getting out of alignment. SCRAM will certainly be easier to DIY servicing.
Honda just has never been able to understand that lifestyle bikes need to have the vibe of that lifestyle, not the vibe of a Honda Accord. 180° cam🤮. A visual design that looks like Lego Technic 🤮🤢🤮🤕🤮. They just don't get it.
Honda did exactly what the patent drawing showed.... It's just a confusing let down. Why not build the Scrambler on the CB500X platform which is already setup for scrambling? Why use the Rebel 500 and get no ground clearance and have to re-engineer the whole thing? If it's a pure style exercise, why not give it a 17 inch front wheel so it handles better? Why is there no room for the passenger's legs? This seems to be a bad design, well put together....
Enfield killer? Not if you understand the real RE market and design. I live in the Andes, the land of Willy's Jeeps and Land Rovers. I really need a fairly small bike that carries heavy cargo with a passenger, up steep inclines and over rugged secondary roads. The Himalayan and Enfields in general are popular here in Colombia because of their long stroke engines. I really get the Himalayan jeep-like design, my other vehicle is a 1974 Nissan Patrol 4WD. I have looked at other bikes and for me it is not about fun but rather utility. The RE pushed the horse power from the top to the idle range, it has a low idle with instant hp giving you low end torque and tractor like power out of the gate. I saw a 650 V-Strom short stroke struggling to get up a 45 degree incline that I tractor up every day fully loaded with my wife on the back. His bike was empty with no passenger and he had to go too fast to get the power he needed for the climb. He might be king of the highway, but not where I do most of my riding. That is the beauty of the old fashioned RE stroker tractor torque. I would like a slightly faster bike on the highway, but I am not willing to give up the utility of the LS410 (Long Stroke) engine. If you have ever driven Hummers and Jeeps in the military, you will know that a vehicle with off road torque is a 45mph ride on the street. I understand that and try not to push my LS engine over 60mph. When you understand the engineering behind the design and that it was built for third world countries with poor roads, as an affordable workhorse for low income buyers, then the RE Himalayan is difficult bike not to admire and fall in love with.
The Honda is ugly AF. Would have liked to see paint and pipes like the Old 70s CL.Enfield looks way better IMO. Also Enfield has stronger spoked wheels for off road. That being said I would go with the Honda CL as a commuter bike.
The Enfield bikes are wonderful, but they have one FATAL flaw, and that is tube type tires. Having a flat with tube type tires is an absolute nightmare, especially if you are by yourself out in the middle of nowhere. There is simply no reason for anything but a closed course off road race bike to have tube type tires in 2023. From the looks of the wheels, the Honda has tubeless tires. But it also has an absolutely awful engine that was awful from the day it first appeared. It was derived from a CAR engine, and has absolutely no character at all. And I don't think I've ever seen one that wasn't painted flat black. They could at least make it look 1000 times better by painting it silver.
I *_LOVE_* the look of the old CL450, especially the DOHC air-cooled engine. Honda should re-release that model, with some of the mechanical shortcomings addressed.
It's an interesting comparison; this has twice the power of the RE but it is more expensive, not as good looking, not as good offroad, not as characterful. People will buy it, but I don't think someone who wants a Himalayan will be dissuaded onto this.
I'm surprised by how unattractive this is for a Honda. And impractical. If it's a scrambler, it has way too much blacked out gear. It needs more silver surfaces. Plus, that pipe is so high it's in the way of the passenger.
There be no motorcycle in future going to get Enfield status, because Enfield is emotion so it become a benchmark. One can know it through honda highness CB350.
Can you commute in the uk all year round on a bike with no proper front mud guard or would it just throw water and salt over the engine and ruin the finish? 6 thousand seems a bit steep really being as it is a rebel reworked a bit. It aint really a scrambler? I dont think it would sell here in the uk in great numbers, i dont think royal enfield need to worry. For the fair weather bikers bigger is always better and i think that the all year round commuters perhaps dont want to spend to much on a bike thats essentially going to look worse for wear after 3 or 4 british winters. The reallity is the big four japanese companys do sell smaller cc affordable bikes that would be ideal as winter hacks but we dont see them in the uk for some reason.
@@williamrae9954 You mean the belly pan is an optional extra? And you skipped over the very, very exposed exhaust pipes... in your glib attempt to seem 'knowledgeable' :)
I think the issue is that they sell it as a Scrambler but approached it like it was a styling choice rather than a utility choice. If the question was, what is the better Scrambler? It would probably be the Scram 411 at this price.
The CB500X is known to suffer broken engine cases. Because the engine is used as a stressed frame part. I think it'll be much the same with CL500. It'll be fine as long as you keep it on paved roads.
Known by who? Do you have any idea how many ADV bikes use a stressed member cradle? Pretty much every KTM adventure bike, the Pan America, many Ducati models. The list is long. I own a CB500X and I’m in the forum communities and I really haven’t seen anything about engine case failures outside of what you’d find on my model with a SMF. If you off-road your ADV bike and you have a high quality bash plate that connects in the correct spots, I’d venture to say you’ll never crack your engine.
@@zyonsdream If you look at the forums online, there's examples of them snapping, along with pictures. There's a reason every dual sport (Suzuki DR, Honda XR, Yamaha XT, and Kawasaki KLX) have full cradle frames. This bike doesn't. But if you want to buy a CL500 and catch some air, it's your money. Myself, I don't think this bike is suitable for off road use. A scrambler that doesn't scramble.
@@dirkdiggler5164 I think you miss the point. A scrambler isn't an off-road bike, it's a road bike that can also handle gravel. Not meant to jump, and if people are jumping with the Hondas they're abusing them. Just like you shouldn't be jumping with a GSA... it's like a hyper-scrambler, not a dirt bike.
Personally I don’t understand what exactly they took from the old design to This, all I see is horrible gaps between the tank and frame, its basically a Cruiser posing as a scrambler. But as they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
RE: outgrown in 1 year. Honda: outgrown in 2-3 years. Both great for newbies to build skills on. Edit: *major* difference is Honda reliability vs. RE's proven lack thereof. Newbies shouldn't have to deal with the hassle of owning an RE.
Tubeless tires are worth something. Gas tank capacity looks like it leans toward the RE. I like the Honda for it's parts/service accessibility in the USA, the Royal Enfield however looks like a real motorbike, the dealer network & parts availability in the US is pretty bad. The horsepower difference will impact the North American marketplace.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I hate the inclined tank-perched-on-top design of many of the modern 'retros'. I think it looks ungainly and top heavy. Furthermore, it depends on what you want the bike for: I was looking to downsize from my 2008 650 V-Strom and specifically wanted something small and nimble to explore the countless miles of single track roads in West Cork, Ireland, where I live. Most have grass growing up the middle and you often find yourself up some picturesque dead end, at a farm gate and with no further space to turn around. For this, the Hunter 350 won out, and I can say it's an absolute delight to drive this stunningly beautiful little tractor: it is incredibly stable, even at ridiculously slow speeds, allowing you to drink in the landscape and explore the hedgerows as you trundle on by.
The CL is not going after the same market segment as the Scram at all, sure it's double the power, but it's undoubtedly going to also be double the price. It may be a better, faster bike, but it's not going to appeal to younger and new riders in the same way an Enfield will. Also, as someone who owns an OG 70's CL350, I think the rebel-like styling is a bit of a let-down compared to the original.
Here in Oz, Honda seems to have real problems putting bikes on the showroom floor. The 2 bikes that have my interest are the CB500X and even more so the Transalp. My dealer can't even tell me when they will get any, let alone have either on the floor to test ride. End of the year is what I am hearing. Interestingly most other manufacturers while suffering shortages are nowhere near this bad. All well and good to make nice bikes but not much use of you can't get your hands on them. Meanwhile RE has bikes by the truckload at every dealer in just about every color on the floor to ride away now.
Not sure about a bike killing another one, but if I have to pick one, I think the new X-ride 650 Trail from Mash is what most of us wanted from Royal Enfield: a simple, reliable, light, single cylinder trail bike.
Don't fall for the " anything killer" there is absolutely no need, it's just hype. Purchase what you love, to ME the Honda is hands down a fantastic bike. The Enfield is way underpowered. And it's made in India, which matters to me. I prefer the Japanese standard.
Sticking with the lines of the original exhaust just kills it for me. Someone may come along with an after market end can that could change that opinion, but personally the Himmy/Scram has it beat on looks and price, if not outright performance, which matters not a jot to many.
cool bike! i love the himmy for off road/on road yes it's slow but soooooo good for 70% off road this bike seems like a fun ripper on tarmac hope all is well sir 🎉
It's a twin which will put fans of air-cooled singles off, perhaps, but I'd rather have a CL, and I like singles. It looks better without those white 'accessories'. I was looking at one this afternoon in Chiang Rai.
I agree. The white “accessories “ look like generic parts bin leftovers that someone forgot to paint! So what’s with 2 front fenders??? Give me a better looking exhaust, PLEASE!
I was looking forward to the new Honda scrambler(s), but after seeing this, I'll pass...due to both anesthetics (e.g., that exhaust is awful), as well as functional reasons (e.g., why put an unprotected, underslung exhaust on a SCRAMBLER?). And it simply doesn't make sense (to me, anyway...other than a manufacturer cost perspective) to base their scrambler on the Rebel 500 base (even though it does have SOME changes). You're absolutely right when you say it's a road bike with a semi-retro scrambler look (and a poor and ugly one at that); Honda has almost always done much better. They should have based it off of a CB300R (with tweaks as needed)...that would have made a far better design base for a scrambler (along with a SCRAMBLER-type exhaust, etc.). But then again, I certainly wouldn't mind having one of their gorgeous mid-70's scramblers... 😊
I love Hondas reliability, I still have a 1977 XR75 that starts on the first kick. Amazing machines. But modern Hondas, in my opinion, have some of the ugliest frames in the market. I understand that they are built for functionality, but the form is awful. I’d pick a RE over this new scrambler simply for that reason.
Years ago I noticed that when women are interacting in a group, they are too polite to ever contradict each other, so whenever a woman in the group makes a claim, no matter how outlandish it may be, the rest of the group is required to accept the validity of that claim for the rest of the conversation. So it seems to be with motorcycle journalists. Some journalist once said that a parallel twin with a 270 degree cranks sounds like a V-twin, and that's a good thing, and since journalists are to polite to ever contradict each other, the rest of the motorcycle journalist fraternity is now doomed to accept that as gospel for the rest of eternity. Some day our grandchildren will be reading about how, if a parallel twin fails to have the requisite 270 degree crank, it is unworthy of serious consideration as a motorcycle.
The price seems fine, and with the extra power & no doubt better build quality then l'm sure it's worth the extra cost over an RE. But RE (IMO) have an appeal total lacking in this Honda, my favourite bike was an NX650, red with gold wheels, it turned heads in 92, this won't turn any l don't think.
