Im in the UK and have a Cfmoto450SR ;) There are about 2 or 3 dealerships selling them. One of them where i bought it, is Bike Sanctuary. Cfmoto is killing it, and offering some great machines with a great package. People get put off because of being a Chinese brand, but they forget the engines are made by KTM and Kawazaki, Brembo brakes, Bosh electronics, Italian designer. Not that different from the Aprilia or any other brand that use parts from everywhere including China.
lucky, dealers are few and far between around me, i am wondering if there will be any fallout with changes in distribution, hoping the existing dealers dont get eaten up by KTM showrooms
I hear this, it’s the same engine made xxx, it isn’t. The absolutely critical point, whether an Apple phone, a KTM engine, or a Mercedes, is the established brand does the quality control. When a Chinese brand does the quality control the standard of finish falls short.
@@bpenny4352 Not everyone needs to like them as It’s a personal preference. But wether you want or not, most things are made in China and doesn’t mean they are bad. I have an Aprilia RS660 and a Cfmoto 450SR. Both equally really well made, and both have many components that are the same, made in the same factory. And guess what ? Both have components made in China as well. Again I’m not trying to sell Cfmoto or any brand. I had ktm, I had Suzuki, Honda and more. I’m just making a comment with my personal opinion. Personally think Cfmoto are offering a great package at an amazing value.
@@BrunoEnrique read my response again, the issue I’m making clearly isn’t whether you like Chinese goods or not. I worked for years importing FMCG from China, if you don’t monitor the quality, standards slip. This is the country of yes means no, no means maybe.
@@bpenny4352 yep, which is why CF Moto's guarantee is so much better than KTM's 🤣🤣🤣 and of course, if you leave a British or American contractor unsupervised to do a job, they NEVER cut any corners do they? 🤣🤣 nationality doesnt affect quality IMO, good is good wherever its made, crap is crap everywhere
I find several of the CFMoto bikes attractive, both in looks and price. Having another motorcycle manufacturer is a solid plus. I was in my teens when the Japanese entered the market and that was good for motorcycling. I wish CFMoto success.
CF Moto face many obstacles, and I speak as someone who has wanted to ride the 800MT for a long time. First issue is the number of false starts with bikes launched and launched again and distribution changing and small dealers getting stock but not having a manufacturer based promotion in order to sell that stock. This has caused long delays in bikes actually being available to see and try and by next year the situation will be worse, at least for the 800MT, with the availability of the Suzuki 800DE and the Honda Transalp practically making it an 'old' model. Next is the fact they are Chinese and certain people will not touch them, siting political reasons or manufacturer labour practices while using phones, computers, microwaves and TV's and wearing jeans, tee shirts and baseball caps all of which are made in China. Next are dealers, at present there are only a handful listed and my nearest multi brand dealer, listed by CF Moto as being a dealer has nothing on their web site regarding the brand... no dealers, no sales. Last is price. Chinese bikes like Voge grab the attention because they are so cheap, the CF Moto 800MT is not a cheap bike. Yes they come with a bunch of accessories on board, but if you have no need of huge aluminium panniers and top box then a good low mileage Africa Twin or BMW R850GS is likely to be a much more attractive offer. As for parts swapping rather than repair. I worked in the computer industry in the 1980's repairing machines down to component level. Now it's almost impossible to even get inside a laptop or a phone let alone repair it... doesn't seem to have harmed sales at all.
harming sales and being good for the industry are two different things, i hate surface mount cct boards lol. it is all a complex subject. and time will tell, i agree, they have fences still to jump, but so far they seem to have managed ok. The changes in distribution may mean much better availability, we will see i guess
The Chinese are coming like it or not. It’s going to be a big shock to other manufacturers perhaps time they awoke and smelt the coffee. Innovative well priced products will overcome boring overpriced competitors. Am I bothered about the Chinese stigma not really, no more than I’d be towards German, Austrian, Italian or Japanese built stuff but alas many people have short memories…..
one of my videos was named very like that 🙂 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-RGk7qCa4Ghc.html 🙂Cheers for watching and for the comment mate. Ride Free 🙂
No manufacturer has the nailed on right to success, as demonstrated by the massive collapse in the British manufacturing sector. The ultimate success will be the companies who can excite both Eastern and Western consumers, who have different tastes, but there is also the foreign quality paradox - demostrated by the perception that German products are universally good. Royal Enfield and CFMoto seem to be both self generating engineering, but also importing the halo effect with their overseas connections. I've had an ear balance problem for years - so I am rebuilding a 125 to my taste to get the sea legs back again. The biggest issue has been the importer being tardy on parts supply. It should not take a year to get a gear shifter - which seems an obviously vulnerable part, for example. Every machine has it's own unique way to break, in my trade some repairs get staggeringly expensive where the solution to a worn bearing is a whole new motor from some brands. Where these lesser known products will stand or fall is with consumer confidence. Parts anxiety is the fastest way to wipe zeros off the value and reduce desirability.
Great comment, re It should not take a year to get a gear shifter or 18 months to get a base gasket for a Triumph Bonneville lol, unfortunately, repairs and parts supply seem to come low on the agenda of most manufacturers these days, even Honda and Yamaha dealers don't stock most parts now, and as you said, that is a huge part of what gained them their place in the market 🙂Cheers for adding your bit mate. Ride Free 🙂
It's scary stuff, but economies of scale coupled with massive manufacturing capability will lead to world domination. BTW, the 450SR is already here in the UK. I sat on one in my local dealer a few months ago. At £5599 OTR it's a nice bike, apart from the silly stickers.
@@PumpKing96 you might be surprised. they make them in different places for different markets, to take advantage of better import tarriffs etc. Mexico is a surprisingly big player, with cheap and easy access to the US market and South America
I still dont know about chinese bikes, you see some of their 125's after a few years, 20 year old cg125's look less disheveled. China has never been a byword for quality and craftsmanship. Think if i wanted a 600cc+ middleweight supersport i would go for a 2nd hand CBR, ZX6R etc as even a 15 year old one is still going to be a capable bike with proven reliability, lots of parts knocking around for them. Lets not forget these were all genuine 150mph bikes.
re China has never been a byword for quality and craftsmanship.- Ming vases maybe? they were about 1000 years ahead of us on bronze casting too, but i dont disagree on most of your points. time will tell
@@barebonesmc i know what you are saying, those lads knew the score, like anything now its how many units you can build cheaply & quick with very little quality control.
@@cbrboy76 as you will see in one of the comments from someone who visited the factory,, their QC is as good as anyones now, it does make me smile that they put so much longer a guarantee in place that KTM or anyone else does
There are a couple of very well-established Japanese brand main dealers in my area that have been selling CF Motos for a while now,type of places with solid reputations that wouldn't do anything to change that. I'm old enough to remember when anything Japanese had the same reputation as Chinese stuff a few years back. I travel to Asia and trust me,any feelings of superiority some might have are badly misplaced. Coming back to Britain after visiting most Asian cities is quite sobering these days. I'm not sure many realise quite how many Chinese parts there are in "Western" vehicles these days. On a similar note a mechanic mate of mine showed me a Kawasaki 300 scooter that has Sym branding on everything but the bodywork.
I was expelled from 2 motorcycle groupswhere I was, when I tried to explain that Cfmoto is not just a Chinese brand as any Chinese brand that existed in the past and that they are producing high quality motorcycles at decent affordable prices... not many can see this future perspective you shown here. I see 2 options for the future, both good for consumer, so we have to embrace this: 1, CFMOTO becomes no.1 top world motorcycle producer better than everything we see now or, option 2. All CFMOTO competition adapts prices and speciffications offered by CFMOTO, an option that joins CFMOTO as one of the best world motorcycle producers. From the point that they are now, there is no other option.
Welcome aboard mate, I would agree it is good, the industry needs a shake up. There is another BIG player i see in the future and i will be looking at them more closely soon. they have been gradually amassing stocks and shares and are now, arguably, the biggest company in the world. and they have become so by the back door without anyone really realising. but that is a story for another day 🙂 i will give you a clue, they ARENT Chinese 🙂
@barebonesmc I have some clues, I did a lot of research, but I mean, people see it as a cheap Chinese brand, and I find it hard to inform them, but I think, I should let time do his job and enjoy my CFMOTO 💪✌️👍
@barebonesmc I had my first CFMOTO 300NK, I got in love with it, and when 450NK was released, I got it, and it seems to be very reliable and good quality. I own now the 450NK it is an amazing small fun bike 💪✌️
I am not convinced about Chinese bikes. Remember Hyosong? When the S Korean company used Suzuki designs without paying royalties? I seen a few in dealerships that were so fresh that the paint was literally still drying. My jeans left an imprint in the gas tank of one I sat on. I haven't seen one in a very long time. Fit and finish of Chinese products have faired no better in my experience. The little dirtbikes and 4 wheelers from China turn to dust around their Honda clone engines (which DO seem reliable until you need a part like a voltage regulator).
yes i remember Hyosung, but let us be fair and not jus=dge one company by another ones failings. the CF Moto side by sides have proven pretty reliable from what ive heard, and im not sure there have been any major recalls on the bikes, which is better than many can say
@@barebonesmc The trouble with the internet is people making sweeping statements without checking (referring to the original comment), Hyosung had a business agreement with Suzuki since they started making bikes for them in 1978, I *think* they made small capacity bikes for Suzuki for the Asian market,in the same way Bajaj did Kawasakis .(I'm not sure if they do now) Later they started making bikes under their own name.....still with the Suzuki relationship. "Using Suzuki designs without paying royalties" is totally incorrect.
@@dave8204 Really? That is what Cycle World reported more than once. I guess the writing sages there were just full of shit then? Sweeping comments? It was an air cooled SV650 design. Executed poorly. The rag reported that the Korean company ran Suzuki off and paid no royalties for the design. Proficied that auto makers should watch out for Korean manufacturers. Now every 4th car I see is Korean. They may be cheap but at least they hold no value long term.
If they don’t rust too quickly on our shitty uk winter roads, cfm might get a foothold. But me thinks the great British weather will be a bridge too far for cheap finishing
CFMoto don't read the market any better than other more established brands. The difference is they are willing to give us riders more of want we have wished for. I am really keen to see the triple. I have a Triumph Street Triple 765, but I've been looking to get into faired sports bikes. In my country triumph's are not the cheapest to maintain. That fact keeps me from buying an older Daytona 675 that i've found here and there. Love the sound track the street triples have.
believe me mate, even in the UK Triumph parts are expensive, I used to run a Trophy 900 and still have a Daytona 955i, great bikes, but as we say, with Triumph there is always a BUT, someone was talking about all the 900 Explorer chassis problems earlier today in another video, apparently another fault they are refusing to do a recall on
CFMoto just added another cylinder to their 450 engine and called it done. Now where did their 450 engine come from? Stefan Pierer is a smart guy. I dont think he could have produced as many motorcycles in Europe going forward. From the news I'm hearing, European industry was built on cheap Russian gas, and well, we are seeing how that turned out. It is the Chinese market I wonder about. Competition must be very heavy. I keep hearing about other manufacturers like QJMotor, Voge, and Kove. I know riders have been waiting a long time for the Japanese or anyone to produce a capable and affordable bike like the Kove 450.
go on, where do you think the 450 engin came from? ktm group arent making one, the only comparable engine ive seen is the Aprilia, and the whole block looks quite different to me. and what makes you say the whole European industry was built on cheap Russian fuel? we have never had fuel cheap, even when all the North sea platforms were being built. Understanding the Chinese marjet is a complex one. Branding and manufacture can be very different. Voge for example, arent actually a manufacturer, they are a branding exersize. QJ Motors are one of the big players on the manufacturing side to be sure, Kove as you will see from previous videos are one of the brands who i am interested in, and i like the way they are making strides forward and manufacturing what seem to be exciting bikes, Ive been talking to a dealer in Spain who sells Macbor bikes and has been really pleased with them, so i will be doing more digging on them too now. and there have finally been some spy shots of a new 450 twin adventure bike from CF Moto using the same 450 twin engine from the SR, add an Aprilia 450 Tuareg that should come into the mix and that looks set to be a new battleground i think. Kove 450 Rally with 2 450 twins should give us some real choice in that sector, and the Macbor 500 twin weighs in at 175Kg so compared to the Honda CB500X it really is a lot ligter, all good news for buyers i think. 🙂Cheers for watching and for the comment mate. Ride Free 🙂
@barebonesmc I think that now is the turning point. Chinese bikes will dominate the markets as did the Japanese and CFMoto leads the way with the agreements in place!
If Chinese motorcycle manufacturers get their act together reliability wise, the European and Japanese should be worried in time to come. A lot of companies like KTM are having bikes made there, also in India. I do worry about quality in the metals they use in the long term though, cheese like spring to mind, but i'm probably out of order on that one. I do have a Skyteam Monkey, the pinicle of Chinese manufacturing prowess, it's done 1000 miles.
@@barebonesmc Smart people,they're laying off thousands of workers and the British Government are giving them millions to do it!! I'm sure the fact that our current prime ministers mother-in-law once worked for Tata has nothing to do with it.
Γειά σου, Having worked in China i know what they can build. part of the issue i think is that so many western companies buy from China purely on price, you buy the cheapest and you arent going to get quality. That doesnt mean they cant build quality, have a great day mate
@darkiee69 Every Chinese bearing I've ever bought was inferior to a Timken. I had 100k miles on front wheel Timken bearings and bought new bearings at NAPA that were Chinese made. The old Timken bearings were still much better than the new Chinese ones. NAPA is a top line auto parts store. Not cheap Amazon crap.
@@stevestowell-virtue3781 I was going to say it goes a lot deeper than amazon. the advent of surface mount components and solder dipping totally changed the electronics industry, you simply can't unsolder microcomponents and replace them. and for any company making anything with electronic controls, the manufacture of the cct boards is something most often contracted out, wherever the parent company is from, they go to the same suppliers. those boards can still be made with proper sized components, but it costs more, and is bigger, so everyone uses surface mount cct boards, and no one can do anything except swap the boards out when there is a fault. trading with Chinese companies brings different problems than when dealing with most western companies, both have advantages and disadvantages. China make some great bearings, but most of the companies selling them in the west do just buy on price, aso the quality of many products goes down, and the relevent Chinese companies think the poor quality items are "what we want" so thats what they make for us, Getting the right QC in place in China can be hard, but plenty of British, American and other companies have crap QC too, a sad state of affairs, which means finding good quality anything, anywhere just seems to be getting harder
Im planning to do a full test on the Kove 450 Rally (with no financial incentives lol) and look forward to seeing the full production 800X they are building, Been chatting to a Macbor dealer in Spain and hes been selling them (Rebranded Kove 500X) for a couple of years and had no faults show up at all, and the Spanish do keep their bikes longer than most these days. so we will have to wait and see. I dont convince easily, but i try to be open minded, and having worked in China, am under no illusions about the fact that they can build pretty much anything really well. the reputation for rubbish in many ways comes from too many western companies buying on price IMO
Went past a mg garage in Brandon Suffolk he’s started selling them might pop and have butcher’s one day . I think they might upset the market would be nice if they done a 250cc my 750 getting a bit heavy at my age
The fact Yamaha is partnering with CFMoto on a project should not be overlooked... both statement of quality of work from CFMOTO and that Yamaha expects them to be round for the duration.
totally agree, as with the Guarantee when compared to KTM guarantee. it says a whole lot about their confidence in their own manufacturing. If it was a bit different ok, but 1 years guarantee with all sorts of clauses for a KTM vs 5 years plus with unlimited mileage (depending on market) that CF Moto give on basically the same engine and tech
@@barebonesmc I'm looking at selling my Forza 300 and getting a 450SS come spring. Unfortunately, here in the US, CFMOTO only offers a two year warranty, but that's still twice what the big four or Harley offer. CFMOTO is putting some serious effort in expanding their dealer/service point network here. The city I live in is only 300k population. And we have ten dealerships here in Kentucky
@@weylins Pity you arent closer to the Canadian border, they are getting 7 years from what i was told, Just got a first glimpse of a new 450MT ADV bike based on the twin 450 engine too 🙂 tey are listening, unlike most. and if there are any KTM dealers in your area, i dont think it will be long before they are stocked side by side, so far the agreement started as UK and Ireland, but there are about 5 other countries now signed up to the multi franchise KTM/CF Moto dealership network, I think the MV will be in there too soon, interesting times ahead i think
@@weylins they do have links to the Polaris group too, their fingers are in many pies so to speak 🙂 their are very astute business heads driving them forward. and unlike many of the big boys it does feel like they are listening to customers 🙂
We have plenty of CFmoto bikes where I live. Issues with battery, wirings and even leaks are all too common. Their current engine lineup (singles,inline 2s) is also very uninteresting, resale value is also very low. Some former owners (I know one personally)warn to stay away from the brand if you dont want headaches. Aesthetically, their bikes look really good. I like the 700 clx range's aesthetic design but the 180° inline 2 engine is very uninteresting. I'll stick to both my suzuki v-twin, and yamaha single cylinder commuter, thanks.
@barebonesmc From the Philippines, CFmoto bikes are becoming very common here lately as it is relatively affordable compared to the Japanese big 4 brands.
@@Raphael041 interesting, what are the guarantees being offered there? it is each countries distributer that seems to be offering the extended guarantees, so each is different, they extended UK to 5 years,
@@barebonesmc If you bought the bike brand new I believe it is covered for 3 years both for the engine and electronics.Doing any mods that would affect any of the two before reaching 3k kms the warranty will be void. If you bought a used bike I'm not really sure how much you'll be spending if any issues arise.
it isnt really fair to call it a copy when the parent company (KTM) is paying you to build theirs. and there are several of their engines that seem to be new. engines like the 450 twin they have made, and the 500 four coming, you cant really copy something that isnt being made by anyone
when they sit on the board of Pierer Mobility access to KTM and MV designs shouldnt be difficult, but to be fair, no one i know is developing another 4 pot 500cc engine, and the 450 twin is their own design too (possibly a V four Superbike coming if rumours are to be believed too) Between CF Moto and Bajaj Group, they are probably the biggest worldwide player right now in terms of actual production capability and real value on the market
part of the point i am making, as with most other industries, even buying from established non Chinese companies, the web spreads, it is the reality of globalisation. without selling any bikes in the west at all, Bajaj now exert a huge influence on the European markets, so do CF Moto, whether anyone buys their bikes. They seem to be becoming the parts manufacturer to the world.
being honest, i think calling most of the west free is a bit idealistic and factually wrong, our governments just arent as blatant about the control they exert, but lets stay off the politics side and concentrate on the bikes. I am interested in both from an industry perspective, a high performance 4 pot 500 has been missing for too long. and the 675 triple could be a real sweet spot engine. and it will be interesting to see whether it parallels the MV or Triumph design
You're already doing it while wrinting on your smartphone 90 to 100 % made in China, or you computer filled by chinese components. Apple is made in china and marketed by yankees...In motorcycles even the very expensive european ones have plenty of chinese parts. Too late for you, the global oligarchy has decided for you.😁😁😁😁😁
I don't really see the problem with replacing instead of fixing though. If a single gear in you gearbox is destroyed it's usually cheaper to get a new transmission from a parts bike, also if someone fiddled with the wiring harness it's much easier to just replace it with a new one. So I don't really see the problem with this, can anyone enlighten me?
Waste. Also your privileged purchasing power can and will likely errode where the new transmission swap wont be cheap anymore. Also how many 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s bikes are still alive now, will your part swaps be available in 20 years? Diy fix is the way vs planned obsolescence
I don't really agree with me having privilegd purchasing power though. I have the money for replacing parts, not for getting them fixed or custom made by someone else. That's usually more expensive. For 80's an onwards of the bigger brands parts are usually still available. Maybe not in 20 years but by then we'll have 00's and 10's bikes available for cheap. Which is going to be interesting since those bikes have a lot more electronics and software stuff which may prove much more difficult to DIY then 90's bikes. I think DIY vs planned obsolence is a false dichotomy. Take a chain for example, do you DIY your chain as well or do you buy a new one? Maybe we can agree to the following: Step 1: fix it yourself Step 2: buy a replacement part Step 3: pay an expert to repair the original or to make a custom part For me Step 3 is usually too expensive though
i think a key is making things repairable, which does often drive actual manufacturing costs up. its cheaper to use plain bearings, but then the repair is major, use roller bearings and its immediately more expensive and more complex to manufacture, but repair is easier and a LOT cheaper, that is just one example, and there are many. cleaning a switch with accessible contacts will always be cheaper than replacing a microswitch however cheap the microswitch gets too
In the Guitar world 20yrs ago cheap Chinese was a fail.... These days you'd be surprised where your top brand guitar was made..... Bikes going the same... Already.....
F C MOTO is a German company based in China were Fossil fuel ⛽️ is cheap and plentiful as is production cost. Most large companies are based in China, always have been. Don't believe marketing or Politicians. FUEL ⛽️ Prices predict the price of everything. Cheap Labour, go to China. F C MOTO, Fantastic motorcycle
@@radiocrash you mean like BMW did with Nilfisk? or Suzuki with MZ, and the list goes on and on. it has always happened and probably always will, and i dont see anyone else making a 500 four so they havent copied that, or the 450 twin engine
@@radiocrash i wasnt, i was comparing what they did to what you are accusing CF Moto of doing. To be clear, Kawasaki and KTM, both ASKED CF Moto to redesign the engines the built for them, they stole/copied nothing. BMW copied/stole Nilfisk's frame and suspension. as did Suzuki with MZ's 2 stroke secrets. There are too many myths and rumours passed around that have little truth in them
