New Design VS Old Design .38 Special+P 110 gr - Hornady Critical Defense VS Remington HTP 

Wow! Thanks for the shout out. This is, I think, the first time I've seen two different cartridges perform so closely. I'd call it a dead heat. The Hornady is certainly nice with respect to carrying extra ammunition in a speed loader or speed strip of some kind. I do like that. The price might favor the HTP, but not by much. A few foot pounds energy difference even at this level is probably not enough to make a difference. And they all seemed to like hitting in the same place, at least with your guns. Talk about making a buying decision hard! LOL. I was predicting that one would be better than the other by enough to make it a clear choice. That is often the case. Not so much this time.

Always been a fan of the old school HTP. Throughout the years, it still seems to perform just as well as the "higher tech" we have in ballistics today. This load gets the job done.

After watching this I bought 2 boxes of the 110gr +P HTP’s and stoked my four .38’s with them. Two snubbies and two 4” Mod 10’s I use for occasional carry and backup home defense. Along with the 2.5” Mod 66 .357 Mag loaded with 125gr SJHP HTP’s on my nightstand that is my primary home defense gun I sleep well every night. Thanks for the great videos Sam, we all owe you a beer. 👍

Kind of what one would expect. Being an older HP design, the HTP need more barrel length to expand properly. The Critical Defense expanded the same amount from both barrel lengths. The penetration of both was about the same but the CD penetration was more consistent in both barrel lengths. Not a lot of difference between the HTP and CD but the CD was more consistent all around.

Damn, these are both really impressive coming out of a snubby!

I think it’s a good, fair comparison. I always try to pick a winner, but in this case I’d feel comfortable carrying either. In any case, either one would provide a major ouch factor. When thinking about self defense it can be easy to focus on penetration and maximum damage, but really the goal should be stopping an attack. I think we’d do well to switch our thinking from “shoot to kill” to “shoot to stop.”

A little difference can some times make all the difference. That's why I love 3" revolvers.

I carry the Hornady ftx in my Taurus 856. I like it a lot, It’s very accurate and packs a punch!

When the use of microfusion (MIM) in the manufacture of firearms was generally extended by weapon manufacturers since the early 1970s, and light aluminum alloy frames became popular, they observed that although They were construction techniques that managed to make firearms cheaper and reduce production times. They had certain material weaknesses that caused some parts to suffer premature fractures, cracks and wear. As it still had to spend a lot of time improving the MIM alloys and metallurgical techniques, the "gun industry lobby" managed to make a "high handed act" and in 1972 the Permanent International Commission on Firearms Testing and the SAAMI, which is who internationally establishes the approvals for cartridges, reduced the maximum pressure values ​​that these ammunition were capable of developing. In fact, the standard of the previous ammunition was higher to the point of being practically what is known today as "+P" (depending on the manufacturer's values) that were created for the needs of users, such as law enforcement, security professionals, armed forces, etc., who needed "full power" ammunition but with the tagline of not recommending at all the use of "+P" ammunition to avoid responsibilities in the after-sale for the deterioration of the weapons in their sales civilians under warranty. There are now many ammunitions with very powerful general purpose loads for use with any weapon thanks to metallurgical improvements and MIM process engineering by manufacturers (some more than others, as always). The fact is that the recurring question always arises whether a classic model from the "PRE-MIM" era (produced with classic forging and machining techniques) can regularly use "+P" ammunition. To answer this, it must be taken into account that for each of the ammunition manufacturers "+P" does not mean "exactly the same" and that in general, many of those ammunition are very close to the previous pressure values ​​for that cartridge. , and for which those weapons were designed. If you get one of those weapons in almost unused condition since many people almost never shoot their weapons and end up sleeping in a nightstand drawer for years, they are inherited, and if they exist and sometimes appear on the market, it could be used "+P" ammunition with values ​​close to those of the original standard without major concerns (do not forget that "+P" is not always the same for each manufacturer, and that is why no one undertakes to categorically say if that type of ammunition can be used in previous weapons due to the risk of a lawsuit from civilians). If we are talking about weapons whose use and history is unknown, we do not know the stress accumulated by the weapon and which generally cannot be observed with the naked eye, out of prudence I would not use "+P". If we are also talking about original models of a certain historical value for which it may even be difficult to obtain a replacement, we must be cautious and in addition to shooting it very sporadically, use the softest loads available for that cartridge. In short, use "+P" ammunition that most closely matches the original standard values ​​of the "pre-mim" era and be aware of the condition of your weapon. Regards!

Agree totally with your comment about Taurus.

38 Hornady 110 +p baby that's the way to go💯 Good video Sam🔥🔥🔥🤪🤪🤪

Great testing Sam. Glad you have that 3in Taurus 856. Gives us a new prospective on the performance of these rounds, and the difference in barrel length can make a difference in some cases. 🎩♠🏁🎯🏵😎

I've been waiting for this test! I bought a bunch of Remington 125 grain and the guy I bought it from included a hundred rounds of the 110 grain by mistake. The more I thought about it, I thought this would make a great snub load because it would have a better chance of expanding. Turned out this is a good load! Thanks for testing this!

Brilliant test. My compliments to Fudmottin for talking you into this.

Thanks Sam. I’m using standard Critical Defense in my 2” Colt King Cobra Carry.

THANKS Sam!!! I just bought some HTP for $11.99 a box.

About as I expected, Critical Defense was more consistent regardless of barrel length. It's often optimized for use in shorter barrels and in longer barrels it doesn't change much. The HTP needs a longer barrel for better expansion, which is no surprise being an older design as these were built around 4 inch service revolvers. Hard to say one is really "better" but I'd pick the Hornady for the consistency factor. As they say, good science is repeatable and I can guarantee the Hornady is as close to repeatable performance between the two cartridges regardless of the firearm. And some don't like that for whatever reason, me personally though I like to know that no matter what gun I select a particular load is going to perform well in that caliber and this is one such example.

Great test! They seamed about the same but the Hornady has a bit better expansion and probably won't clog with different barriers. Keep up the great testing. I look forward to all your new tests.

Would be interesting to see something like this compared to just a lead cast wadcutter load.

The penetration and accuracy was great. The Critical Defense is the most accurate round I've ever shot but I haven't shot the Remington yet. I have shot Remington in other loads and they are good rounds. Good video. Thanks!!

Thanks Sam , both did really well which I was glad to see since I carry both those rounds in different revolvers 👍👍.

your shot placement on this video was very impressive.

Thanx for the great review.remington green and white box 125 gr sjhp +p is all I load my 686 4" for defense.only deference is price point and no nickel case I believe. Damn good round

I like both of them I only wish there was 38 special on the rack cheap enough I can shoot it more often

Great to see some .38 tests. Looks like a draw essentially. Good data as always.

Good stuff Sam , keep up the good work !

I love your set up on the gel blocks!

I've seen your earlier "jug" test with the Buff Bore 110 grain rounds. If you have any left, I'd love to see you shoot them into gel and maybe run a head to head comparison with the Hornady CD, out of a 2 inch barrel. Great work, and thanks!

When you couldn’t find any 38spl awhile back I found that Hornady online and got a few boxes, I know it’s not the deepest penetrating round but it seems to expand well and you get at least 10” to 12” out of a snubbie which ain’t bad. Your testing verified that also so thanx. 👌

Awesome testing! The CD performed very well but my magic number for the 38 special is 158 grains.

Nice! I run those CD rounds in my 640

I’ve always loved hornaday critical defense 38 special +p. That being said some of the old school loads are pretty awesome. My favorite old school 38 special +p load is Remington 158 grain lswchp. I just recently did a video on that 158 grain load and it performed awesome.

Great video sir!👍🏼

I read a review you did on some ammo I think on midway then came across your videos. Great work, really appreciate your efforts.

Great video! I really like your shooting range too. I sure do hate you’ve had a bad experience with your three inch Taurus 856. I’ve got a 2inch 856 and it’s been spot on every time and no malfunctions of any kind with a very nice trigger pull right out of the box.

Thanks GS. I learned again.

SAM-This is HUGE! This Critical Defense data Proves my theory combined w All the HST data you have done that the 4 layer MDF data makes Clear Gel results amazingly close to Real Gel Results from VISTA/Hornady. HORNADY REAL gel w this round was 11.25 w/ .54 expansion so Very Similar overall Tissue Crush Values again...the Volume of a Cylinder how much tissue is destroyed ie how fast BP loss which drops bad guys EVENTUALLY! Also loved the Side view of PEC 3" you should hold that a few seconds after every 2 shots in your new protocol. Guys doing clear gel without clothing that doesn't matter! Sam's MDF testing 4 layer DOES! "And you can take that to the bank Senator Trent.....to the Blood Bank...ba ba baba bump"

New gel day! Nice comparison.

Excellent review, it's amazing how much difference one more inch of barrel length make's in performance. Sorry I haven't been around for 1.5 month's, but I'm back.

Thanks been carrying the Hornady for years

Rarely talked about, but alternating the two rounds seems like a viable strategy. imho. Thanks for another great review.

I'm seeing the same pattern , Hornady plus P are a very solid consistent performer. They are my second choice to carry in my J Frame . Underwood Gold Dots are my carry Ammo

Negligible differences - both rounds perform well with both guns. When shot from a 16 - 20 inch carbine, they both are excellent hunting ammo too (up to 50 yards, maybe even 100 yards).

I'm a huge fan of Rem SJHP ammo. I have never seen a 110gr SJHP from them before. My ammo radar is up and running! Great comparison video. I do carry Hornady ammo as well in certain guns.

Definitely good performance from an "old school" style bullet although I'd definitely take the Critical Defense if I was using a snub nose. It just seems to be a bit more consistent from shorter barrels.

Nice. I would lean toward the HTP. I have a certain institutional fauth in SJHP designs. No knock on the Hornady- it did very well, and they make good products. I would not feel poorly equipped with either one. I still prefer the 158 LSWCHP +p, especially Buffalo Bore, in steel frame guns. The 110's are likely better choice in alloy frame guns due to recoil issues. Thankfully there are a number of great choices out there

Thank you for posting this. Good shooting I don’t have the +p but I use this same amo.

Good stuff, I’d be ok with either one, but if they were both sitting on the shelf next to each other, I’d pick up the Hornady Critical Defense. Thanks for the testing.

I'll take EITHER, BOTH will git'er DUN!

Excellent test video..

I've watched this one a few times in my quest for an all around, practical snub cartridge. One of the pluses for Critical Defense in the legal aftermath of a self-defense situation is the name - Critical DEFENSE. I tend to believe that would presuppose an ammunition used for defending one's life if the question of what ammo was used is brought up.

Good video. Thanks for sharing. Take care.

Nice test

Nice 👍 I like when u use the gel

I have no idea if they are still being produced but it would be interesting to run the old "Treasury Load" +p+ 110 grain load

Good shooting Sam as usual not a lot of difference in the two barrel lengths but the hornady seems to expand better I just started reloading .38spl .357mag and 9mm .125grn xtp for .38 5grns of long shot to start loaded ten rounds to start seems ok it’s costing about $20 a box to reload

Checked their website. Seems the only HTP in 38 special +p they have now are 158 grain. The 125 grain 38 special +p are now the "Ultimate Defense" line, of which they have two kinds, one for short barrel and one for full sized, same bullet weight. I'm guessing different powders. Ultimate Defense- "Designed with the concealed carry permit holder in mind to deliver big gun terminal performance out of shorter-barreled pistols and revolvers. Specially engineered Golden Saber BJHP bullets effectively expands at lower velocities for superior energy transfer on target. This round has been engineered to provide optimal penetration and expansion through even heavy clothing at lower velocities for maximum stopping power."

I would like to see standard pressure lead round nose 38 special in the gel test.

The Critical Defense transferred more energy. It's also cleaner and more advanced.

May I make a suggestion? When you compare two different rounds with different barrel lengths, please save the data until you have completed both tests. That way we can see the difference with the different barrel lengths. Like I said, just a suggestion

Good video! Igual yo elijo el Hornady por tener camisa de cobre. Saludos cordiales desde Guatemala city

Great video! Very detailed and informative. SGAmmo has the HTP’s at a good price, $16.95. What do you think the velocity would be out of a 4 inch barrel?

Cool video thanks.

Really good job, exactly what I was looking for

There's no school like Old School

So out of my Ruger GP100 with 5 inch barrel I would be around 1200 f/s. Not bad for 38 special +p but expected slightly bit more from +p. Those cartridges definitely can be loaded bit hotter I believe.

States that outlaw Hollow points accept Critical Defense as a solid point!

I would choose a critical defense over the Remington its still a good round critical defense I believe is going to be more consistent because It's proven to be in multiple calibers and I think it's definitely a less barrier blind round it did open up a little bit more and it did it sooner in the gel

MORE MDF IS REAL WORLD Confirmation Ur CD did better here w more velocity than previous going deeper 11.75 .512=2.42 cu " TC vs Hornady Official Real Gel 11.25" .54=2.58" adj vol TC MORE VERIFICATION MDF 4 layer Protocol similar to REAL GEL to REAL WORLD bullet performance!

Great comparison between rounds. I typically run the Federal 110 grain plus P plus in my two-inch Smith & Wesson Model 640. I have noticed in some of your videos you seem to have cylinder problems with you Taurus revolvers. What do you attribute that to ?

Do you have a file showing all your chrono results? I would be interested in it. Thanks for your content.

Can you explain the danger pocket carrying lead rounds? I’m not doubting you, it’s just that I’ve done since retiring in ‘97 and as far as I know suffered no ill effects & at 75 would like to experience a few more BDays. Also, impressive double action shooting @ 25 yds!

Hey Sam, did you ever find out what was up with your revolver? I have a 4 in Taurus 6 shot that jams up on one chamber from time to time, it shoots lights out even from 40-50 yards, I just have that one issue, was wondering before I have a gunsmith check it out… thanks

Is that 3 inch taurus working out? I saw the unboxing video and it was shooting way high?

Hi Sam, Was that what you call a short stroke on the trigger around the 10:30 min mark? I've never owned a revolver and I've been watching lots of your stuff trying to get an idea of what I want to get first. I was thinking LCR X but afraid of people talking about the false reset on the LCR. Thoughts?

Why are the ftx so light ? In weight

Favorite

I bought two hundred rounds of Blazer 38+p tmj. It has aluminum cases. Heard it is dirty, but should be good enough for the range. Otherwise I keep Hornady in my LCR for defense. Wondering if semiwadcutter or full wadcutters would be a better defence round in a two inch barrel.

Light slugs work , less recoil =faster shooting .

10:10 would you consider a revolver cylinder not rotating a failure? Are there any drills for revolver failures?

A lot of guns say that they can handle plus P but don't recommend them. I can't see any reason for plus P when there's no real benefit to them in the first place, not to mention how a plus P round could over penetrate and maybe go straight through someone who needed to be stopped and actually harm an innocent person standing or just being at a distance behind them. I'll stick to my Hornady Critical Defense for my 38 special.

Hi Sam, wondering if you would trust carrying a Taurus 856 2" heavy snub as a daily carry??

Where are you finding a box of 20 HCD for $20? That's a good price.

Any idea why the hornady only penetrated 7" 6 months ago vs this test?

Hey man, thanks for all of your vids! So, Question to anyone: I just bought 100 rds of that hornady. I have been carrying B.B. 158 gr lswchp standard pressure. Which do you think performs better out of a snubbie in terms of penetration & expansion? None of my local ranges allow ballistics testing, so the only thing I can gauge is accuracy. It looks as though the hornady under penetrates, & from what i've seen of the B.B., it tends to maybe over penetrate a little. Ahhh, snubbies - the x-factor of .38 special, lol

Ok iv been noticeing the recoil on my 357 has been a littel less useing same ammo one is 15 yrs old the other is a new my question is do you see or feel a reduction in the recoil over the yrs .like their makeing lighter recoil loads ?

👍😊🎯

What's best overall 38 special plus p for the short barrels? A best and an best value . 2 rounds

👍😃✌️🇺🇸

With the HTP being a little hotter would it have more stopping power and initial shock?

Bump

Algorithm

This video really should have done better.

Critical Defense has never really impressed me.