Snub Nose Ballistic Test .38 Special VS .38 Special+P VS .357 Magnum 

The .38 Special and .38 Special+P is the same ammo that I used in my 4" barrel test. So to compare barrel lengths, the standard Pressure .38 Special average was 1,032 FPS/260 FPE in the 4" barrel and 912 FPS/203 FPE in the 2" barrel. The .38 Special+P average was 1,179 FPS/339 FPE in the 4" barrel and 1,018 FPS/253 FPE in the 2" barrel. To put into simple perspective, the standard pressure ammo in the 4" barrel is roughly the same muzzle velocity as the +P ammo in the 2" barrel. For .357 Magnum, the industry standard for *110 gr JHP* ammunition is to have a *muzzle velocity/energy* of *1,295 FPS/410 FPE* . In comparison the industry standard for *125 gr JHP* is a *muzzle velocity/energy* of *1,450 FPS/583 FPE* and *158 gr JHP* is a *muzzle velocity/energy* of *1,235/535 FPS/FPE* . As I was saying, a 110 gr loaded at full power is not the industry standard, and I would avoid 110 gr loaded to full power the way Corbon loads a 110 gr JHP at 1,500 FPS. The exception to the "rule" is that solid copper 110 gr ammo such as Super-Vel SCHP and other similar ammunition is fine, because copper being less dense than a traditional cup and core JHP bullet makes the 110 gr SCHP bullet about as long as a 125 gr JHP bullet, thus reducing powder charge and sealing the forcing cone long enough to prevent flame cutting. I also wanted to address the contradictory statements I made about going single action to be more accurate, then later saying I am not more accurate in single action. What I meant about not being more accurate in single action, is in context to when shooting at a target where rapid fire or multiple shots could be necessary. I will lock my grip and keep the same hand position to shoot accurately multiple times, going single action where I break my grip is "less accurate" for multiple shots. But at the chronograph or gel block where just one shot is taken with no expectation of needing a quick sight picture and second shot fired immediately, I can often make a more accurate shot in single action.

It's refreshing to hear someone speak about the practical accuracy of snubs. I don't know where this myth about them being inaccurate started, but it just isn't true. It's the shooter thats the problem. The more significant factor over barrel length is the double action pull. Most striker fired or single action guys can't shoot well with even a 6 inch revolver in double action. The snubnose, with practice and lots of trigger time, is just as capable and practically accurate as any of the subcompact 9mm pistols... in the right hands. Great work! Keep the snub tests coming!

Just a note from an old handloader about 110 gr. .357 mag. loads. Back in the early 70s, when I was a lot dumber than I am now, I conducted an "experiment" with my 6" .357 Ruger Blackhawk, just to find out if the factory loaders were right about not loading 110 grain cup & core projectiles any hotter than they did, even back then. I was of the opinion that the lawyers for the factory ammo companies just didn't want to incur the wrath of the defense/prosecution lawyers just in case one were to have to actually shoot some perp with a really hot 110 gr. bullet. Well, long story short, I loaded up 10 rounds of brand-new WW .357 brass with a Speer 110 grain HP, placing each one on top of an amount of H110 (which I will not divulge), figuring I might just have found a way of proving Einstein wrong about the speed of light! Guess what? The factory folks are right! I only fired one of those rounds at a standard bullseye target at 10 yards; looked at the target and couldn't believe I had missed the target! Well, finally reason started to rear its' ugly head and convinced me to go take a closer look at the target. What I found was a lot of little, tiny holes in that target, fairly well distributed around its periphery, and then it dawned on me! That poor little projectile hadn't even made it to the target in one piece, having basically disintegrated en route! So, the factories were right; I was wrong, and I proceeded to disassemble the other 9 rounds, and I have never been tempted to do this foolishness again!

Though you don't have as technical a set up as many "bigger" channels you present more than enough and your attitude and personality are on POINT dude. Seriously, I cannot stand most other channels because those people are always too full of themselves or acting bubbly for the camera. Pun intended (and not) you ARE a straight shooter! :)

Sam is one of my favorite RU-vid handgun guys. "Salt of the Earth" kind of guy. Thanks Sam.

I agree with your conclusion. 357 is a monster but plus p more practical.

Thanks, that was an interesting test. I carry both a 2" 5-shot .38Spl. and a 3" 6-shot .357Magnum. So this is especially helpful for me.

What a fantastic video comparison! So, this is exactly why years ago when I was a newly assigned cop to work patrol, instead of choosing a heavier S&W j-frame .357 mag, I choose the Airweight model 642 .38spl +P version as my on-duty back up gun. Sure I could carry a .357 mag and load it with +P 38’s, but at the time, nobody made an Airweight in .357mag. So I chose the lighter .38 Airweight wheel gun. I learned that a .357mag out of a snubby is really no better than a +P .38spl. Also the .357mag j-frame was really heavy in my pants pocket, unlike the Airweight .38. I figured if I had to go to the back-up gun, it would be a really close shoot out with a bad guy. Maybe even a contact shot because we were rolling in the dirt and I lost my primary sidearm, Our range staff even said way back then that the .38+P would also penetrate deeper than a .357mag out of a snubby and that’s more important than expansion with LESS penetration. Also, recoil of the .357mag is nuts ball breaking on the hand, compared to an already hard hitting .38spl +P. I watched you shoot all three guns very closely. I’m glad you didn’t move your footing as I used a tree in the background to visually measure your muzzle flip. From 38 to 38+P to .357mag, the barrel rose slightly higher with each increased loading. Good stuff Sam! Thank you for producing such fabulous videos.

Another great video, Sam! Can’t get enough snubby action. You shoot them very well. Your tests are fascinating.

Thank you for the tests. You're an absolute wealth of information on 38 Special.

I own that same model. and I am glad to see that it handles the 357 load, with no issues.

Thanks for the work you put in. I always find your video uploads to be very informative.

You remain one of my very favorite channels, really looking forward to watching this tonight :)

Another great presentation! Thank you for your time doing this, very interesting!

Thanks for this objective comparison which gives us some practical, real-world information when choosing ammo for snubbies.

Everytime I watch your videos I am amazed by your ability to put your shots into nearly exactly equal spacing when you shoot for rounds into your gel blocks. But today, with putting six rounds into a 8 inch blocks is impressive.

Thank you for this one! I really like a point you make fairly often on here - being able to hit fast with several shots beats having a lot more power but much slower shooting.

Thank you for providing these excellent experiments and anlysis. I love revolvers, and I use these 3 types of rounds the most. I really wanted to know the outcomes here. Thank you!

total agreement! thank you for a very nice video as always Sam.

357 with heavier bullets and longer barrel is good for hunting, great out of rifle. For snub nose carry in tense situations I for sure agree with you 38 +p way to go. Penetration expansion and control all come together well. Thanks for another well done provable video.

Excellent demonstration of different .38 v .357 loads out of a snubby.

Woah! A major manufacturer is loading 38 +P to over 250 foot pounds of energy from a snubbie!Sweeeet; the boutique loaders may be having an influence on the industry at last!

What an awesome test, thank you!

Looks like the .38 special + P is this winner. I would rather use 158LRN that the standard pressure, as you have the same damage but bullet momentum with the heavier bullet would give you an edge. Love the expansion of the magnum. I just wish it was penetrating 4-5 inches more.

Really enjoyed that. Nice presentation!

Great video Sam!!

well done practical test Sam.

I have them both 605 and 856 2022 models just get them in the 3" barrel!!! Sweet 👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿

Great review! This helped me a lot. Thank you

Great presentation Sam. Very practical, demonstrates things the numbers on the box aren't going to tell.

Very good testing. Very practical. For personal carry it is usually the S&W snubs with 1 7/8ths " barrels.

Thanks Sam! Love your channel

Good shooting, good conclusion.

Thanks Sam! Good stuff!

Awesome the way you share information for us. Thanks.

Always a good and interesting video. Great shooting with the short barrel. Take care.

Thanks for sharing your videos and keep them coming please.

Great informative review!

Great vid, man.

Another great video, as is the norm for you.

Excellent content GS. I’ve been debating what to carry in a newly acquired S&W 357 snub. This info confirms my thoughts on .38+p being the sweet-spot. Thanks for the info! …now if I can only become half as good as you are shooting it ✌️

The practical accuracy of snub arguments come from guys who shoot semi Auto and then shoot snubs and immediately expect the same performance out of a snub. Apples and Oranges really. I've had great luck with the model 605. They are a perfect carry. 357 in my opinion. As always thanks for your hard work!

I reallllly like your review. I bought a .38 2" revolver and some speed loaders and it confirms for me that it's a capable weapon for self defense despite what some guys are telling me.

Very good comparison. Thanks for the video

Another great video. Thanks A .38 snubby needs plus P , it's just how it works

Fine vid Sam. I agree with all you said.

Great comparison vid, as usual. I think the lighter grain bullets are more stable out of the short barrel and less likely to keyhole.

Thanks for another great video!!

Great video and results that the MDF showed on the expansion!!!!

Thanks Sam !!!

This just confirms to me my choice of ammo for my 605 carry load. 38 special +P+ 140 gr Lehigh defender at 1000 fps.

My first 686 was a 2.5" barrel and I never liked shooting hot .357 rounds. The gun was heavy enough to tame the recoil a bit but my middle finger knuckle always took a beating. I traded to a 3" 686+ and I love that gun, sadly I never carry it. It's lots of fun to shoot however, and I agree that .38+P is the way to go for defensive carry in a snubby. Keep up the good work, you do fantastic presentations.

I carried a six inch .357 model 27 smith for decades.. I carried 158 grain mostly .. In my off duty carry I carry a .38 snub Look a the wound channel… that is energy dumping.. Nothing beats .357 for shooting folks… it is the perfect round.

good vid thanx for your time to produce it.for pocket carry personally im comfortable with the 38 +p out of the 2 inch barrel.and lots of training time.

Good comparison. Agreed on the .38 Special + P.

Very nice. Was thinking about getting a taurus 38spl. Now I know to make sure it is +p

Yep i carry a smith 642 quite a bit and load the same buffalo bore that you mentioned. Great shorts pocket carry gun

Awesome. Thank you so much for this vid

Thanks

Thanks enjoyed and very informative.

Thank you so much, I always wondered the difference between snubbies and standard. And the bullet variants between them.

Great video

Cool information

From watching your videos and others I came to the conclusion to carry 110gr +P in my Taurus 605. Seems to have the best performance and shoot ability out of the three.

As usual, a great video! -Gunny T sends

In the 80's the Treasury Department issued J frame revolvers and a 110 grain 38 loaded to .357 magnum velocity. Obviously neither Smith and Wesson or the ammo company honored the warranty. I kept these for home defense in my 2.5 inch 66 for years

P.S. very informative testing and very well thought out!

Good shooting

Informative, Thanks.

Remington htp 158 gr .357 is one of my Favorite rounds to shoot Quite the banger 💥 And I know it’ll perform Thx 2 my guy Gun Sam coming thru w the review 📈📈📈

Excellent!

According to Massad Ayoob, the .357 HP penetrating 8-10 inches offering massive expansion is the gold standard of "stopping power."

Totally confirmed my suspicions about 357 I'm a snub. I carry a 638 and body guard with laser, both with plus p. Love 357 but she's loud and flashy out of something short.

Awesome video my friend

Great analysis. I like a 38 spl and 357 mags too. 110 and 125 grs in 38 and 125 up to 158 gr.i the 357 with 357 brass. Like the 140 flex tip in a 3 and 4 inch 357 with charge of w296 and 357 brass. 110 silver tip was my carry bullets and the 38 as my side arm in the Army.

Thank you, so much. I had been toying with the idea of buying a Taurus 4” .357, thinking that it would allow for decent bear loads for the infrequent times I’m in the woods, hunting. The more I watched your video, I realized that my 2” Taurus Model 85 snubby, with +P, will remain adequate for pocket carry backup defensive use to my 9mm. As for woods backup to my .30 cal rifles, I’ll just get some heavy duty Buffalo Bore .38 Spl, for the revolver. In northeastern North Carolina, I’m not likely to encounter any brown or grizzly bears. Heck, unlikely to see a black bear, here. Thank you for helping me save $500+ on a fun, but unnecessary, gun purchase. 🤣 Blessings, Grace and Peace 😊

VERY helpful in this observation....this is what my wife carries ,of course in the 38 special ammo ,but for her and I, this sub-nose is VERY accurate!!!

They all look good I would use any of them

Thanks. I happen to carry 110 gr . 357 in a 3 in Kimber K6, the reason being lower recoil than full house loads but a little more punch than either . 38 load. But I'm going to try your recommendation of .38+p at the range to experience the difference in recoil. Could be I'll shoot better with only a slight diminution in punch.

on 357 maximum ammo they started using 158, 180, 200, grain because of flame cutting on ruger blackhawks.

Another great one!!👍😃✌️🇺🇸

Great video Sam! I always learn something or come away with something to think about. I've been shopping for a .357 even though I'll likely more often shoot .38's. I just wanted the versatility. Maybe if .38 +P is the "Goldilocks" load anyway, I should just go ahead and get a .38? I have others, but would rather not run +P in them. I'll keep watching. Thanks!

I carry a S&W 642, 38 and have never run any +P through it so this comes as a very interesting and informative video to me. I’m thinking that I may begin loading +P for defensive carry and continue to practice with standard 38. Thanks for the information.

Underwood has some great prices on lehigh 9mm 👍 and sig357 ammo 125 gold dots 😊

To me, it looks like the extent of penetration is a function of expansion which is a function of energy imparted by the cartridge. I would expect a 125 grain .357 magnum to out penetrate the 110 rounds, and produce greater damage. I won't even talk about a .357 magnum 158 grain hard cast semi wadcutter - I think that would be too much over-penetration even with a snubnose.

I am an old school guy, and when I want to know about revolver results I go to Gun Sam first. Auto loaders are fine for folks who think they will be in some sort of an action movie scenario; but most defenses against an armed threat out here on the street are handled win or lose in two or three shots, and the stuff I see on Gun Sam is, along with only two others, about all I need to see. If only he would change to two layers of hoodie instead of the denim............

Ty

The .38 Plus P here did pretty well. Just FYI in 1989 FBI Testing from the 3" M13 in .38 147 Gr. HydraShoks did best in penetration, expansion, & overall score through all barriers, & they otherized 145 gr .357 Silvertips for Carry at 1166 fps. Postal Inspectors later got the Specially made GS33 3" Speed Six (Ruger Barrels shoot faster than SMITH-fight me w/ data) & carried the Federal 125 gr SJHP (that did great in Sam's testing). Again that all leads me to you really want a 3" .357 if carrying w .357...too bad they are so difficult to find.

That 38 standard 110 gr HTP is impressive on its own from a snub nose. I have a 5 inch Ruger Gp100 so velocity must be pushing over 1000 fps at least. That's plenty of power for self defense round in my humble opinion. Don't even need to tap into my greed and white box at night with 38 +p. Great review.

I've got the green & white box 125 grain in +p and 357. Since finding them, I've been carrying the 135 grain Gold Dot +p for short barrels in my 856, Charter 2.5 inch 357, and 692 3 inch.

Appreciate the test, I use the standard pressure in a old 2” charter arms and a 4” ria 38spl revolvers that are not rated for +p. 👍👍

👍😊🎯 good test

I love your channel.you do a more thorough test of the ammo or gun etc .I get more valuable info from u than most channels.QUESTION.i have some older defensive ammo . Winchester and Remington in 38 + p and 357 mag .it's been in a dry room , not too hot or cold.its maybe 5 years old .can I trust it to go bang reliably..I will test some .I have a 605 Taurus 2 inch.ty for all you do

You're right! I reached the same conclusions as you, but it is great to see this visually confirmed again.......................elsullo

you took a page from me a Taurus snub nose to test with I like that.

I carry a 38 snub nose also i carry hollow points but i do worry if i have to use it in self defense of over penetration that's why i like to watch your videos to help me choose the right ammo.

Would love to see this gun firing hard cast in each 38 special , 38 +P and 357 Mag. I have been thinking about buying a 327 PD with a 2 inch barrel.

Do you have a few revolvers with a barrel length between 3'' and 4''. Somewhere between 3'' and 3.5'' there is a bigger drop I remember from other tests even specific short barrel loads. Tests in that range would be interesting.

Try a hot and heavy 38+p in a snubby! Man it hurts! It made my little LCR feel like I shot artillery out of it. I wish I had a chronograph, that round had to be really moving. It hit the target. I turned the heat down on the next batch.

When shooting long distance I also prefer double action in my revolvers that have a trigger that stack like my Taurus 605, Ruger GP 100, EAA Windicator, and even my 629 can be staged. However……. My 686 has a trigger that is so smooth I can’t stage it. It just pulls right through like butter. I normally use single action with it. Also, I was having the same pinching issue with my 605 that you normally mention and had the same Hogue grip that you use. I bought a set of Pachmayr grips that cover the back strap. It increased the length of pull an pretty much solved the issue.