Interestingly, US wiring is completely different from the wiring in the Netherlands, we build houses mostly out of concrete, but even for wooden ceilings we route _all_ wires through PVC pipes, so its possible to add wires after you close up the wall.
We do that in comercial construction, but we use EMT or MC. Most new homes have high attics now so it’s easier to maneuver up there, a lot of old houses in the area I live in have very low attics because they ran the wiring under. It sucks I like attics more haha.
@@wizard3z868 i count 7 cables total in that box and you're saying you only have 5 cables? and did you include the overstuffed "integral clamps" in your calc.? you should count the clamps as 1 conductor, sized to the largest conductor and you're only suppose to have 1 cable in each one of those cable entry clamps. that's if you want to get technical and do it to the NEC. i really don't care how you're doing it, but it's not something that i'd be proud enough to put on RU-vid and brag about it to the whole world. just saying 🤔🤦♂️
@@chaser9363 integral clamp in that box are not part of calc and ya i counted 5 and maybe the JHA allows more than 1 cable thru those integrated flimsy clamps as long as its secured with in 8 inches of box mine dose (if he dosent see anything else wrong or isnt having a bad day )
better to mount the panels first before you have all those home runs hanging in the way. i like to mark out and box out the house 100% before prepping and pulling wire that way nothing gets missed or forgotten and you won't have to stop running your circuits just to go get a box in order to finish. i mean if your in the mode of boxing, you may as well just go ahead and box everything and be complete. 🤔
Totally. Mark out where everything goes first, put up a list of materials needed for crew, get everything done in their orders at once, least amount of time wasted.
To answer your question Ben, when running vertically through a top or bottom plate, it doesn't matter if the hole is 3/4" or 2", you can't run more than 4 wires without derating the CCCs. Our AHJ has made this an important point of emphasis since Jan 1. I got popped on an inspection for having 8 #14 CCCs through a 2" hole in a 2x6 top plate. Your AHJ may not be as strict. When running horizontally through wall studs, there is NO limitation on the number of CCCs through each hole, as long as the hole is not being caulked or firestopped. It seems to be a misapplied urban/internet myth that no more than 2 or 3 wires can be run through wall studs. Thanks for the videos. BTW, it's 12" to any box, metal or plastic.
Thanks for all of the clarification. The top or bottom plate concept is interesting. I guess its because they are concerned about fire being able to get out and or start in one wall cavity and move up into the attic? I might work towards making a video regarding this topic in particular since it seems like the topic could use some clarification. Sounds like some inspectors may not even agree on this though. Thanks again for the information!
Ampacity adjustment only applies when more than (2) 2-wire cables are installed through a hole that is subsequently filled with caulk, expandable foam or insulation. If nothing that entraps heat fills the hole….you are fine.
Just found your channel and I think it's actually the best All around home maintenance channel I've seen in years. Bob Villa and this Old House is currently not as good
It would think 334.24 prohibits that since the bending radius for NM cable can't be less than five times the cable diameter and that wrap is around two wires.
The hot wraps are just a way to keep the conductors grouped together for each individual run so the guy who did the runs doesn't forget what goes where or next guy doing the trim out later doesn't get things mixed up. Most crews do things similar or can at least figure it out based on experience without having to ring out/trace runs but our crew usually does a tape band/piece of romex jacket with sharpie label to make identification easier later and we'd wind up switch leg wires.
Hey Ben not sure if you own a laser level but next time you could just set that up so that way you won't have to take your tape measure out every time you're drilling holes in the studs for your receptacles or what not just a thought. Awesome content by the way keep up the good work!👍
The common wire is wrapped around the two traveler wires. They are Wrapped that way so that the common is easily identified at finish, when installing the 3-way switches. Most apprentice Electricians are taught this way , Ben. It makes them quicker to identify during trim-out and does not hurt anything. Russ-Journeyman Electrician from Oregon
Are strike plates common in your area? I have seen those in some homes when routing wire through a drilled hole so that they won't be punctured by a screw or nail down the line.
The inspector will see it. Generally speaking, a neatly organized install indicates methodical attention to detail, while a hurried or otherwise questionable appearance invites more focused scrutiny. It's a "first impression" thing. Also, These things help some of us breathe fuller and rest better.
this is funny. I just pulled wire today and then watched this video. Looks like I need to pull out some of the wire and drill a couple more holes. I didn't know you could only have two to one hole. Thanks for the informational video.
Before you go to too much work you can always call your state inspector and see what they're okay with. Another comment said that in WI they allow up to three per hole so you never know. Let me know what you find out! Glad you got something out of the video!
You don't have to derate per NEC until you run 4 or more wires through any top or bottom joist. There is no limitation for wire fill when running horizontally.
You're all circling around the rule, but not hitting dead center on it. Two things, distance from edge of framing member may induce the requirement for a nail plate (1-1/2" minimum), and second the derating only kicks in when bundled for greater than 24-inches, so to have a bundle come through a single hole, or two successive holes 24" apart but be properly non-bunded in either direction beyond is allowable.
@@monkeyCmonkeyDoo So interesting. Do you know the reasoning behind this? Seems like the same rule would apply weather it is horizontal or through the top/bottom plate. Thanks for the info.
@@dwight.bennett So horizontally in a wall you could in theory pull as many wires as you want through any given hole as long as they aren't "bundled" for more than 24"? So interesting.
Hey Ben I like your wiring jobs but I did see one major structure problem on the garage wall I noticed when you're pointing out a bundle of wires that went to a switch box next to the garage door I've noticed that they cut into a double stud which I believe is a structure load point and that is a huge huge no no, Mike Holmes would have you tear that right out
They seem to have several things that they can be called. Here is the title of one on Amazon: Hubbell-Raco 8293 1/2-Inch Deep, 1/2-Inch Bottom Knockouts 4-Inch Round Ceiling Pan amzn.to/2zmkQBC
Plastic boxes a no-no at ceiling due to majority of fixture weight, plastic has maybe 3lbs capacity- sconce only! Butchered the hell out of the framing for switch-box~ inspector can ding for that. The round boxes at kitchen ceiling are “pancake” or technically 3/0-4/0...yours was 4/0. These are immediately convenient, but fixture hanging screws are set lenght due to shallow vox, wiring cramped if more than one cable~ pinche! The single switch-ring for thermostat wire~ recomend notching-in to flush, drywall will bulge.
Ha! Yes I saw the notched studs while I was editing after the fact and wow! They really went after it! Good point about plastic in hanging fixture applications. I used fiberglass with 50lb ratings for all of my ceiling boxes except for the smoke detector boxes which were the blue plastic ones. The "pancake" boxes definitely have their limitations and should only be used only when absolutely necessary. I noticed how on one of them they had two cables coming into it and I'm guessing that it will be difficult to get that all crammed in there. I have only used them when I have a single cable coming into the box. Thanks for sharing!
@@BenjaminSahlstrom The saving grace with the two cables in that pancake box destined to be spliced with the fixture wires will be that the "box" volume may be increased be the canopy space of the fixture that covers it.
@@BenjaminSahlstrom In new construction I will try to use a metal box for lights. If I am using an old work box I will pick up a 50lb rated plastic one. Have not seen any fiberglass boxes sold around me, would like to check them out though.
Ben, what's the requirements for anchoring the wires in the ICF walls? Is friction fit allowed or should you use an "eyed" zip tie to anchor them? Running them back up and over is to prevent cutting into the plastic "stud" in the ICF.
In my ICF the plastic did not extend to the joint so going across at the joint worked perfectly fine. I'd like to hear what people use to hold it to the back though. I made the cut so the wire fit snug, tucked it back, and foamed it in place. I did the drywall myself too and made a do not screw line where the wire ran just in case they didn't stay back.
@9:15 I did an install like that for a client once, with his & hers 3-way switches so that either light could be switched on/off from either side, nearest switch from bed was "yours", far was "theirs" in case they fell asleep with the light on. @13:00 same preference here for closet light. On solid headers it ends up being surface mount, or strip light tucked in corner on ceiling. @15:00 I like that idea, I'll have to remember it. But honestly, the sink rough-ins are a pretty good starting point for horizontal placement. The issue is more about height. Both of which are negated if it's architectural grade stuff that is integrated to the mirror/cabinetry. Original Q/A: Arlington One-box (e.g. F101/F102/F103/F104/F101H) and Madison Smart-Box (MSB1G, MSB22+, MSBHZ, MSB2G, etc) are two of my must-keep-on-hand problem solvers for new-work in kitchen/bath and old-work in general. Hate cheap blue boxes, period. Most adjustable-depth platic boxes have too much slop, especially the familiar blue brand. Plastic boxes with metal clips for screw retainers are junk (P&S/Slater). Carlon Super blue are sturdy.
If I don’t have any Romex 6/2 for 50 Amp can you take 2 14/2 twist the positives together twisted neutrals together interested ground together snappy satisfaction ?
Wow they didn’t clean up their mess. As for the box I don’t know why they wrapped the black wire like that... who knows but you should interview the electrician of the job. Great video man!
Veni Vidi Vici they wrapped the black wire because is power or switch leg, and the other are the travelers, is good way keep together indicated is 3way,
@@BenjaminSahlstrom It also doesn't matter if the material is metal or non-metallic, I think you may not have been clear about that in your video. The 12" rule applies to both.
@@aaron74 The material being secured matters A LOT! Article 300 specifies a wide variety of standards for securing conduit and cable being terminated or in a run. There are specifications for EVERYTHING based on its material properties, its rated uses, etc.
@@ubrayj02 Sorry I don't remember the context of what I said above. I think I might have been thinking of Type NM cable versus Type MC/AC/BX (flex metallic conduit) cable. The spacing requirements are the same for each, I believe, but I could be wrong... If anything the NM requires less space between fasteners, so it wouldn't hurt to apply the same spacing with flex metallic conduit. Same with non-flex conduit... easier to just remember the most restrictive spacing and go with that.
Best to separate lighting loads from general receptical loads, The wide variety of lighting options may effect harmonics with arc fault supplied circuits. All recess lighting should be equipped with gasketed trims to reduce air loss from the forced air unit.
The ceiling can lights, each one has been located right up next to a joist, none are between the joists. Is that required? For I have seen that done at MANY construction sites!
I call the fiberglass boxes "explode-a-boxes" on account of them shattering if your hammer slips off the nail and strikes the box when you're nailing the box on. It's even worse when it's really cold.
To many conductors in that 2 gang box look at the box fill calculations in the code book. The max you can have in that box is 5 14-2 wires also if you look on those cables stackers packing it says on the back that you can only hold 1-4 14g wire in that cable stacker because it will derate it look on the bag on the back of it just a heads up
Handy man here, on three way the tape is a hot traveler? Maybe orange is all he had? I know tape can be used to identify hot neutrals so that’s my guess... maybe he like orange 🍊
Awesome videos!! I'm getting ready to buy an old house with aluminum un-grounded circuits. I know I could just use GFCI outlets to fix it with a few options for aluminum wiring, but I want to re-wire the home anyway. Upgrade the insulation, get rid of a lot of black mold.... I design electrical plans but sometimes lack the smaller details that go into the final product. I love your "OCD" of making things nice. I plan to do the same. I haven't looked at every video yet, but do you have any solar or wind projects? Just curious :)
Sounds like a fun project! I haven't done anything with wind or solar yet but have been starting to learn some about it. Might have something on it in the next few years. :) I'm not convinced that the investment is worth it just yet for solar or wind. What area of the country are you from? Good luck and blessings from Minnesota!
@@BenjaminSahlstrom I'm in Utah. We get both extremes of hot and cold, but its pretty dry here compared to many other places in the US so we get a lot of sun. Can be pretty windy in some areas, but not where our new house is going to be. Would probably need a good State reimbursement or tax break or something to do solar still.
I REMEMBER WHEN WIRING WAS ROUTED THROUGH ELECTRICAL CONDUITS. THE JOB WAS SO NEAT AND LOOKED GOOD, IT WAS AN ART MAKING BENDS, 90'S, OFF-SETS, 3/4 BENDS, FORWARD BENDS, BACKWARD BENDS, SADDLE BENDS AND SO ON. TODAYS RESIDENTIAL ELECTRICIANS ARE MISSING ALL THE FUN, ALTHOUGH CONDUIT ROUTING IS STILL USE IN COMMERCIAL WIRING.
pretty sure anything other than white or green is considered a hot wire, while we do it in black this is not wrong. Although orange is usually considered a 277/480 Color Brown Orange Yellow and 120/240 Black Red Blue
As a builder of 40 years and also do wiring you don't want wires close to outside sheathing alot more chance of wire getting peired by siding nail then a sheetrock nail,, drill holes 2 inch in from inside of stud so it's behind insult
For the love of god, ream out the holes after drilling them. All those wood splinters will damage the wires over time. On another note, Ben your Channel is amazing. Keep up the GREAT JOB !
cabdolla and less than 30 second to pull the wire through...un necessary... but to each his own. I live in a house built in. The 80s , we renovated and many of the holes had the same rough edges pictured in the video and no damage on those old cables.
J A Roadkill look at the job site. Trash wire cuts all over the floor. Splinters in the wood, wood pieces all over the bottom plate. What ever crew did this, does not cleanup as they go. Pride in your work and cleanliness should be religious to being a self-respecting craftsman!
cabdolla very true but times have changed a bit and craftsmen are rare. What we now have in the trade are production installers. And I absolutely get it, as I ended a day , rough or trim, we all cleaned up and swept and threw out trash.
Bill Beedie Ben, I too use 12 ga wire in bedrooms, all to J box, then to 20 amp breaker. Question - what if I use the cheaper 15 amp receptacles in the bedroom boxes - do I have a safety problem? No inspector problem yet, maybe not noticed!
15 amp receptacles are fine according to NEC 210.21(B)(3) because UL listing requires 15-amp receptacles to be 20-amp "feed-through" rated (current between daisy-chained receptacles), even though they are only rated for 15 amps to the individual appliances they serve.
@@williamb395 No problem. If you have any doubts the packaging for the receptacle should even specify "20-amp feed-through rated" or something like that.
This should be find for those of us in the US unless A)your local state or city has a stricter regulation. B)It is the only receptacle on the breaker If you are in Canada, you would be required to use 20AMP receptacles.
Where I live yes that is fine. As long as the power in is on a 15 amp breaker you can use 12/3 for 3 ways, 4 ways, etc. although it is a bit more pricey than 14/3 especially if you are only using it for switch legs (which is implied in your comment). 12/3 will work though!
I noticed on my home I’m getting high electro magnetic readings off my switches and junction boxes as well as wiring. Is there anything I can do to mitigate this, would shielded wire have made a difference?
@@eddiepopeyebronx I probably use the term ‘nail plate’ for what you refer to as a ‘nail stopper’. Like me, I assume most electricians use nail plates that are the same width as a 2 x 4, 1-1/2-inches, which covers the nailing surface. I’ve never measured the length, probably close to 4-inches. They are fabricated with small spikes at each end which are driven into face of the wood. Contractors purchase them in boxes of 100…they’re very inexpensive, best guess, 8-12 dollars.
This is what a professional electrician would call SLOPPY. I am in awe that anyone would flaunt this type of work. Your explanation on "bundling" to justify the Incorrect way to run wire is reaching a little. NEC 110.12 I believe states all work shall be performed in a neat and workmanlike manner....ITS THE EASIEST JOB AS A ELECTRICIAN!
The cables you see hanging down are where they come from, and the panel has yet to be installed. They are going to junction boxes that serve devices like switches, receptacles, lights fans, etc.
The reason I think they went up and and then down and then back up for the receptacles is because it looks like foam insulation and that shit will just drop down
Not all foam is shit! The white stuff they use in packaging (and the kind you see in HD) is very light and not very dense. If you get type IX EPS (used for under slab insulation for example), it is rated for 25psi, or 3,600 lb per square foot, and that's just the middle of the road EPS density that you can get.
@@pnwbuilder that’s not spray though, that’s blocks. If you went across the pieces above will slide down... you go up so there’s nothing that can fall down. It’s hard to explain on text but I’m just saying what I think. I’m an electrician and don’t work with that kind, just going off what I see
Oftentimes the hole height for the cabling is really depended on what was ergonomically comfortable for the person drilling it. An example might be a 5' 5" tall dude with a hole hog will have a zone that is ergonomic and productive for that individual, while someone else who is slightly shorter using a different drill might vary by a few inches or so. Either way it all works even the carefully measured perfectionist method. I comes down to if the customer wants to prioritize it or not and back it with time allowances and finance. Being flexible is key here being able to know when to prioritize and when not to is paramount to being a good worker. :)
Ben, I’ve noticed on several videos that you incorrectly say that there needs to be 6 inches of wire from the front face of the box this is not correct according to the NEC guidelines there needs to be 6 inches from the Where are the wire is cut not from the front face of the box you will have substantially too much wire if you have 6 inches protruding from the front face of the box it’s where the wire emerges from the conduit into the box. See NEC 300.14 “at least 150 mm (6 in.) of free conductor, measured from the point in the box where it emerges from its raceway or cable sheath, shall be left at each outlet, junction, and switch point for splices or the connection of luminaires or devices. Where the opening to an outlet, junction, or switch point is less than 200 mm (8 in.) in any dimension, each conductor shall be long enough to extend at least 75 mm (3 in.) outside the opening.”
That is what I thought as well but there seems to be some debate about the topic. Read some of the other comments and you'll see what I mean. I agree that 2 cables per hole is probably the best way to go in order to avoid any possible questions that an inspector may have. Please subscribe if you haven't already! I have more electrical videos coming soon.
Thanks for the feedback! Just out of curiosity what country do you work in? What are a few of the things that you view as being unsafe? I always enjoy hearing about the methods used in other countries so that hopefully we can all learn a thing or two.
