I have say in an ever growing sea of "influential experts" on not only THIS subject but most subjects, it is refreshing to see someone that actually clearly has the experience to warrant giving out instructional advice. Thank you (fellow Tri-Stater from Pittsburgh)
I have baked approximately 40 loaves so far, watched approximately 100 hours of sourdough videos from RU-vid, from 7 different bakers. Also I am somewhat of a geek when it comes to reproducing results, making only slight variations in techniques and process to judge differences. YOU ARE THE CHAMP. Love your videos, and I have learned so much, from starter to fermentation, to judging the final product. THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.
I have recently started making sourdough bread and these "experiment" type videos are answering a lot of questions I have been having (and doing a lot of the same things)
The absolute best video guide on baking a sourdough loaf at home. Will repeat, absolute best. Thanks a million for taking the time and effort to share your journey.
Tom, I have followed your journey through lockdown, playing and pausing alongside my own fermentation and shaping processes. It was not until today that I've worked out with 100% certainty that my loaves have been habitually slightly overproofed! So a big, slightly gummy, ragged alveoli-shaped thank you for this. And thank you for the effort and diligence you put into each and every one of your videos. Your channel is a treasure.
Yooooo! What this man has done is amazing!!!! The last part of the video where he taking about all the variables he's been testing blew me away. Then he goes to say he's even made a print out 🤯 Bravo 👏 👏 👏 You are the man. I want to say thank you for all your hard work and sharing with the world
For a beginner, this video is awesome. Taking the guess work out of the crumb properties. Very cool analysis. Now to know when it’s perfectly proofed without having to bake it first. Great job! 🍞 😊 💨
Wow! Thank you so very much, Tom, for this invaluable tool! This, no doubt, took a whole lot of work, and is much appreciated. I just printed your ULTIMATE Sourdough Proofing Guide, and I intend to watch this video, at the least, a few more times. You've got a great head on your shoulders, and you're a cool guy, too! Thanks!
I just got 2 almost perfect loaves, after messing up almost every single step, lol, but I watched my bulk fermentation the most and I think that's what's helped me the most, I even stick it in the fridge and forgot to shape first, so I took them out in the morning and bright them up to room temperature, then shaped let them sit out for a while on the counter at room temperature. Baked one, then baked the other one. Both turned out.
Thank you for the feedback. You can also download a printable guide. thesourdoughjourney.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/How-to-Read-a-Sourdough-Crumb.pdf
Tom, thanks for you very informative video. Even though I have been baking sourdough bread for well over a year successfully I always pickup up extra tips on how I can improve my loaves from your videos.
You're truly the sourdough savant! I've been reading your guides and watching your videos, however, I'm still having trouble discerning between under/over proofing. I emailed you a photo of my 2nd attempt at Tartine's basic country bread and hoping you have time to advise. Thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge!
Wow! Quite a research! You are doing a great job! A lot of work, but wit valuable results for us! It means so much for me to understand what and how it is happening with the sourdough and not to take as granted what some people are saying. Thanks a lot! Wish you a great New Year with more interesting videos for us!
I just switched to an artisan flour and having so much problems proofing it. This was good to go back and look at where I am having problems with my method. I thought I over proofed it but seems like it may have been the opposite. Have to go back to 'school' lol. thanks for this.
Hi Tom! I love your videos. They have been very helpful in my own sourdough journey! Here's my question... Have you ever used Spelt flour to make your sourdough? My husband and I have to use Spelt as it is an ancient, non-hybridized flour and the gluten isn't as inflammatory as regular flour. Of course, what this means is that the gluten is much weaker than traditional wheat flour. I would be THRILLED to see you work with Spelt and apply some of your scientific recommendations to it! I use a 80% white spelt, 20% sprouted whole spelt recipe. Thanks again for all you do for us sourdough lovers!!
Great video! I mark up my containers and bulk to about a 50% increase in volume, which I have found to be the most consistent way of figuring out when I’m done bulking. No more guessing for me anymore!
Hi Tom, I am still searching for the holy grail with my sourdough. My last loaf looked so promising but I was disappointed when I sliced it. The loaf was quite rounded and had opened up well in the oven, yet the crumb was dense with small holes and a very slightly gummy feel. I have had some good loaves but not consistently.
You are wonderfully generous with sharing all your time and efforts. Thank you so much. I'm a new baker and have learnt, whilst my loaves taste great (so much better than shop-bought) they are overproved. Thanks again. I look forward to trying to improve what I've been doing so far.
Hi Tom, I really enjoy your videos. I followed your recipe to begin my sourdough journey 3 months ago. I have two questions. Do I feed my sour dough starter regularly with 50/50 bread flour and whole wheat flour? And I hear everybody talking about crumb. Crumb this and crumb that, but nobody has defined what crumb means. I’m getting a sense of it, but what is the definition of crumb?
The “crumb” is just the inside of the loaf. The outside is the crust, the inside is the crumb. By “reading” the crumb, you can tell a lot about how well you mixed, fermented, shaped and baked the loaf. It helps you improve the next time. You’ll find that it takes a lot of small adjustments in the process to perfect it, if that is what you are interested in. I feed my starter a 50/50 mix, but others have good success by feeding it with bread flour or all purpose flour.
REQUEST: At 20:54 you show a list of some of your videos. I'm particularly interested in seeing the influence of immature starter, but searches (visual and digital) on your website in the Videos section yielded no results. I don't like asking you to do more work, since you've done so much already, but I'd really like to know. Thank you!
Wow...Professor of Sourdough! One thing I don't get is the large tunneling in some of your "under proofed" photos. Are you saying that those caverns would disappear if the loaf was left to ferment longer? That I don't get!
The gluten is not fully developed in under-proofed loaves so it will stretch much more before “breaking,” This allows larger holes to be created. Also, the yeast cells are still hyperactive in Underproofed loaves so they care capable of creating larger gas bubbles. In fully proofed loaves, the gluten strands break faster creating smaller holes, and the yeast cell’s CO2 production is slowing down so there are fewer “explosions” of gas production. It’s similar to how you could blow a very large bubble with a fresh piece of bubble gum (underproofed), and smaller snappy bubbles when the gum is chewed longer. The gun loses “strength” the same way the dough does as it ferments.
Can you explain the mechanism for the presence of large holes and separation of the crumb and the crust in over proofed loaves? Breakdown of gluten allowing gases to quickly rise to the top of the loaf?
Exactly. The gluten starts to weaken and steam gets trapped under the crust. The pressure of the steam caused the crust to pull away from the crumb. In a normally proofed loaf, the gluten is still firmly bonded to the crust and you rarely see that effect (however sometimes you will see surface bubbles on a normally proofed loaf which look similar). Thanks!
This helps, thank you for this. Would love to see a video on sourdough focaccia as this is all I want to make. Don't eat bread other than focaccia with toppings. Can't wait.
So happy to find your channel. Lots of good information. I have a question. When I score my bread dough before going to the oven, it deflates. Is it a sign of overproofing too?
Thank you. Every the best loaves will open up a bit when scored, but if it really deflated and flattens when scored, that is usually a sign of overproofing.
Great video, Tom. I'm just going to refer people to this now when they want an evaluation of their crumb on the SD group. I hope you are posting it there! Great of you to do this. I hope you had/have happy holidays!
Thank you, Carol. I appreciate the feedback. Yes, I will be posting this in the SD groups soon. Also check out the printable guide. The link is in the description of this video.
both of mine rose great but this video helped me realize that mine are either under or over proofed. definitely feel like a sponge and almost gummy. mine are very spongy. i have been doing my proofing in the refrigerator overnight. its doable but not ideal. i think ill plan on doing my fermentation earlier in the day now. thank you Tom. this is an awesome video!
Thank you. Sorry I have not made any videos using freshly milled flour. I recently did a video Experimenting with Bread Flours, but these are not fresh milled.
Thanks for the fantastic video mate! We've been baking bread for 3 years or so and every now and then it goes a bit wonky, now we have plenty of options to tune our process.
I'm new to the sourdough journey. I messed up 4 starters and 4 loaves. Finally baked 2 edible, decent loaves. Your guides are VERY helpful to me at this point. Hopefully, as I bake, I can perfect my bread. THANK YOU!
Hello! Really appreciate your work. The video was very thorough and helpful. I mostly bake bread from rye and spelt, with 30-40% of wholemeal flour, and they tend to be quite compact and dense. Can your method of crumb reading be used for denser types of bread? My loaves would probably be on the underproofed end of the scale comparing with your pictures, but is it because I'm really underproofing, or is it just this way with heavier breads?
Rye and spelt will always produce a more dense loaf. Try recipes specifically formulated for those flours. I recommend the recipes from The Perfect Loaf.
Awesome information and what a lot of work you have done documenting everything. Question: since i'm a newbie I am thoroughly confused by your casual interchanging of "bulk rise" and "proofing." Perhaps it is the mwthod you are using, or perhaps i have misunderstood other instructions. Please help. My understanding is that after "stretch and fold" you "bulk rise" 4-6 hours room temp or slightly less than double that in fridge. THEN you preshape, shape, and place in proofing baskets for "proofing" for roughly 3 hours room temp (or a short night in fridge. ) If I am correct, bulk rise, and proofi g are two distinct and separate steps. So why do you use them interchangeably? If I am wrong, ummm....ease explain! That said, I have made 4 loaves so far. 1 & 3 were gummy and ....eh.... 2 and 4 were fantastic! Working on 5 now (bulk rise.) BTW, loaf 3 was a challenge, as the power went out just as I was preheating the oven for baking. Does anyone have a video that covers "what to do if you lose your oven just prior to baking?" I tossed it in the fridge and baked it half a day later when power came back. What a sad loaf that was!
Thanks. It’s is a bit confusing and the terms often overlap. “Fermentarion” is the total process from adding the starter until the loaf is baked. “Bulk Fermentation” is the time from adding the starter until preshaping. “Bulk rise” can mean either the same as “bulk fermentation,” or the remaining portion of bulk fermentation after the stretch and folds are done. “Final proofing” is the time from shaping until baking. “Proofing” in a broad sense is the same as “fermentation.” When you speak of an overproofed or underproofed loaf it is same as saying over-fermented or under-fermented. It is the sum total of all of the fermentation. It is better to measure the end of bulk fermentation based on the percentage rise than the timing. I have a lot of videos on this topic.
@@thesourdoughjourney thanks! I think I understand how various terms might be used generally, or specifically, and mean similar, but different things. LOL I do understand that the time is a rough guide and quality of the dough is more important, but it takes experience to get that, so in the meantime, the timing method gets me in the ballpark. Loaf 5 was, I think,based on your video, slightly underproofed.
I would add that over-proofed bread seems to get a stale crumbly/dryish texture very quick, like under one day even with high hydration. My last (also first in recent years)sourdough loaf came out super chewy, like my jaw is fatigued after a slice, and I've been trying to diagnose the issue. All of the cheap blog advice I have found gives some frustratingly terrible copy-paste chatGPT level answer like "to reduce toughness add fat, get a lower protein flour, or don't knead it as much... gumminess is uncooked dough, fix it by cooking longer" Better sources such as this video are pointing me more at some type of under fermentation, can under fermenting increase chewyness? The real problem is that 95% of the loaf has desirable properties, oven spring was good, a little flattened but expected as it was a loose dough, nice ear, crumb macro structure is reasonably evenly open, and flavor has the right level of development. The only three things I noticed (other than chewing rubber) was the denser region at the bottom, a rather thick crust, and the webbing between pockets is thick and mildly gummy(there aren't many micro bubbles) despite the internal temp being near 212f at the end of baking. My ferment was noticably slow, I neglected to preheat ingredients, starter was just past peak but held in the fridge for a day, and my house is very cool (but I have a proof box) there was near zero rise during a 15hour cold retard [very cold fridge]. For bulk I had it in a graduated container to monitor the exact volume change, I probably just stuffed it in the fridge to quick after shaping expecting more rise from carryover heat. I was following a well established formula, using weight and thermometers. (And I'm generally versed in food science and cooking.) 80% bread flour [KA 12.7%protein] and 20% whole rye. My only know changes were increasing hydration to 85%, and I forgot to preshape before final shaping for better tension, which combined with higher hydration to make a fairly loose raw loaf.
The vast majority of issues are typically related to starter strength and bulk fermentation. If you get those two thing right the bread practically makes itself. Past peak starter will always produce a less than optimal result. I give my starter two or three “peak to peak” feedings before I use it in my mix, and try to catch it at or just after peak. Final proofing in the fridge will rarely show a rise, but it is still fermenting. Bulk fermentation cutoff is the art of sourdough baking. Lots of helpful resources are found here. thesourdoughjourney.com/faq-bulk-fermentation-timing/
@@thesourdoughjourney My starter strain is normally vigerous but I had to delay making the dough and I thought that maybe the starter would hold in the fridge(cooled right at or just before peak). Which may have actually been true as backed by some pre-peak starter cooling and rewarming experiments. But when I came back I also absent mindedly forgot to re-warm it and used cool water for the dough.
Hey Tom, awesome work with this video! I've learned SO MUCH from you! A question: do you know what causes the amazing blisters some get on the outside of their dough? I have been trying to get blisters for 5 years. Thanks to your channel, I've mastered sourdough in every area besides this, but this is the one thing I cannot figure out. I am wondering if the blisters are dependent upon the type of flour used... Or is it some other factor? I want blisters so much! Can you lend some guidance on this? Maybe you could do a new video dedicated to mastering blisters!!
Thank you! I get blisters from time to time, but I’m not sure I could create them on demand. I know they are more likely when the dough is spritz with water, the oven is super hot, and often when the dough is fully, or slightly overproofed. I’ll see if I can isolate the effects over my next few bakes.
I read that brushing the dough with water works better than just spritzing water on the dough. I'd love to see some experiments to see what brings about the best blisters!!
These were really helpful. I’ve noticed a huge difference in the crumb from cooking on a stone with a tray with water, vs cooking in a cast iron combo cooker. I thought it was due to my fermentation but it seems the cooking methods also make a difference.
Yes, the baking temperature (and vessel) has a huge impact on the ovenspring (and the crumb). I’m doing some experiments on this topic new and will publish a video on this soon.
thank you! I just begin my sourdough journey and totally clueless. I had baked several times with other recipes, and all were failed miserably. Your videos help a lot.
Thank you very much for another very educational and informative video. I just started my sourdough journey a couple of weeks ago. I successfully made a healthy and strong starter using 100% wholemeal flour. By the way, her name is Ray. My husband and I only eat wholemeal breads. So the wholemeal flour is what I am going to use to make my sourdough breads. My question is that if your guidelines of reading the crumb can be used to wholemeal breads.
Wholemeal loaves will always bake with a more dense, closed crumb there what you see here. The extremes of over and underproofing will look similar to what you see here. But the fine differences of “molten” and “open irregular” for example will not be as evident in wholemeal loaves.
@@thesourdoughjourney Thank you very so much, Tom! I appreciate your scientific approach to sourdough bread making. You have made the whole process enjoyable.
@@thesourdoughjourney today I made two loaves. The crust looks horrible, no ear and it just melts when I score and put it in the oven. But it has the most beautiful crumb I’ve ever made. Wondering if it’s too long a fermentation or too high a hydration that’s causing this?
Thank you Tom , Once again a great analysis tips for bakery business development it’s over than evaluations of loafs fermentation , by the way I have question that fermentation windows will assist to or rectify Dough ? Will be great if you can make separate video about fermentation ovens and how to choose good one.
Thanks. With a sandwich loaf you’ll typically be looking for more of the “fully proofed” examples here, rather than the open crumb examples. But the extremes of under and overproofed crumb would look similar to these examples (not so much the shape obviously).
Hi Tom. Is it possible to send you a photo of the loaf I made? I've made 6 loaves and I just can't figure out if I am over or underproofing. I'm reasonably certain that is where my problem is. I'm using your Proofed Pics but just can't figure it out.
Wow, 24 minute video and I am finally able to critique my work objectively. (Hubby not so picky 😅) I have had two sourdough baguette fails, both failed the oven spring. Flat, dense and gummy 😢 I used different recipes, am hoping your guide holds the clues that I need to be successful. Thank you
I'm glad I found your channel! I baked my very first loaf of sourdough bread today, and I'm not sure what happened, but it didn't rise. BUT, I'm not giving up. I will figure this out!
This is so good. Such great information. Actually answers many questions I had about my yeasted loaves that never come perfect. I was analyzing the wrong things. I didn't analyze the bulk time. Game changer.
Just what I was looking for. But I have a question. My loaves are good but have inconsistent crumb throughout. It is possible to have Over proofed, Under proofed and perfect open crumb all in one loaf????
Great question. Yes, it is possible. Usually If you are seeing indications of over and underproofing at the same time it is because you have a weak or acidic starter and the loaf is breaking down before it has a chance fo fully rise. In my video “How to Strengthen a Weak Starter,” I describe the “peak to peak” method of feeding which can deacidify and strengthen your starter.
Tom, you did it again! What a great instructional video and tool! It will joint the ranks of your "50 Ways to Kill a Starter" and "The Incredible Bulk-O-Matic" ! Now crawling your website... All the very best for 2022 (already looking good)!
This is a fantastic resource for those who are seeking continuous improvement in the Sourdough baking. Thanks so much for all of your time and effort. Your "Bulkamatic System" was a game changer for my sourdough baking. The youtube algorithm doesn't bring up your videos despite the fact that I've been a subscriber since the start. Who knows how they work? The one area that I'd like to improve is the proofing process. Putting the loaves immediately into the refrigerator seems to retard the growth of the final proof. I may start leaving the loaves on the counter for 60-90 minutes before the fridge retard. I'll need to check you videos on this topic. I started baking sourdough in 2010 but I still learn a lot from your channel. Thanks!
Thank you! Yes, I do a hybrid approach. Depending how the dough feels in shaping, I'll often leave it on the counter for 30-60 minutes before going into the fridge. If you leave it on the counter too long after shaping it can develop some real irregular holes. I've usually seen this with warmer dough (80F/27C) around the 90 minute mark. Thanks again for the feedback.
I just recently started my sourdough journey, my starter is a month old, and this is the first video that I’ve watched that truly helped me understand the science behind this lovely bread. I’m going to binge watch you videos and learn so much from you 🤩. I do have the book but being a busy mom of two small toddlers doesn’t leave much time for reading. You’re a knowledge treasure!
Fantastic video and handouts. Great info. Thanks for compiling and sharing all of this knowledge. I know it represents a very substantial effort. Much appreciated.
I found your channel back then when i was a novice sourdough baker. As always, you provide very informative and well-presented details that cover various aspects in sourdough bread making. Thank you for sharing and for the wonderful effort! My ideal crumb leans toward overproofed but before it crosses the threshold of gumminess. I have a theory that the more a dough is proofed, the more flour is worked on by the yeasts and bacteria, hence the higher bioavailability of the nutrients for our absorption. I haven't been able to locate relevant info to verify the theory though.
Thank you. I agree that the longer proofed loaves are more easily digestible and I believe I've also heard there is higher bioavailability. If I find an reference on that I'll post it here. I also have a new website at thesourdoughjourney.com with lots of great new info.
Tom, thank you so much for your extensive, scientific approach to making the best sourdough bread possible. Your highly informative and often humorous way of teaching the subject of bread making resonates with me more than anyone else on RU-vid. Thank you again for your extensive research and for sharing it with others.
Thank you. Also check out my video series “When is Bulk Fermentation Done?” Also, my new website has lots of great content here thesourdoughjourney.com/faq-bulk-fermentation-timing/
Just wanted to say thank you Tom I really appreciate all the time and effort you have put into your Channel it is helping me so much with my own sourdough Journey
My word! I’m so impressed with your diligent research into bread baking. I only started baking bread a few weeks ago and have been so proud of myself, but clearly I didn’t know how to measure the quality of my breads. They looked and tasted good but I always try to improve on everything I do, so now I know what to look for. Thanks for sharing all this info!
Thank you. This is a another good video for beginners. Good luck with your baking and thanks for the feedback! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-WVebYEH63xM.html
Wow!! Thank you soooo much! I'm only on my second loaf EVER!!! The instructions said to proof over-night. I did, and it ended up over-proofed. I did the light finger-touch and it was sticky. I baked it anyway. The crust came out deep golden. It was chewy and delicious. However, the bottom got too dark. I am wondering if on convection oven I should decrease the temp by 25 degrees. The shape was flat and crumb was a bIt gummy. It makes great toast! But I'll keep trying. Great channel. Thanks much!! I wish I could post a picture of my second loaf.
Thank you. Yes, with convection try reducing temps 25 degrees. Also a lot of people put a baking sheet on a separate rack below their Dutch oven to keep the bottoms from burning. Check out some of my videos on how to determine when bulk fermentation is done. Also check out my website at thesourdoughjourney.com
I sold 430 loaves this weekend, and now I’m ready to learn how to really make sourdough. Lol. It’s freakin hard to know when my dough is fermented properly, as I’m using cambro containers(I fit 6 loaves in each) for fermenting and proofing. I have a commercial traulsen fridge. I can’t figure out what time to put the loaves in the fridge as the load determines how fast the fridge can cool them down, so nailing down a system has been 3 months in the making and I still don’t feel like I’ve made progress. But, people love our bread and we are selling out every week! But it’s nowhere near where I want it to be. The pics and descriptions really helped. Thank you. About to watch all the bulk fermentation videos this week!
Thanks. Your baking in quantity so it’s challenging. The Cambros are great for measuring the percent rise, so you should be able to dial that in, but the ending dough temp is real critical. Warm dough should be cut off earlier than cooler dough. And the fridge temp (and dough temp in the fridge) is important if you’re doing a cold retard. I’m happy to help in any way.
@@thesourdoughjourney thank you! Yes, I am doing a cold retard after mixing. I am able to control the climate in the room and it stays at 76-77 without a problem. Temp of the dough coming off the mixer is been consistently 77-80 as it proofs at room temp. When I have 42 bins, obviously the fridge has a harder time getting the dough temp down once they are all in compared to 20 bins or 7 bins. So figuring out at what point in the rising process is the right time to place in the fridge has been the crux for me. I have tried stacking bins in at different times, proofing at room temp for a shorter time period and putting all in at once. But I know there’s a formula or science I can apply to figure out how long it takes to cool down the dough given the load parameters. This problem arose after we had to change our system and technique given the uptick in demand of our product and the addition of more farmers markets. That’s why it’s been hard for me to tell if they are underproofed or slighly overproofed and why the pics were a great help. I do have to go through them again and watch some more videos to make sure the issue is getting diagnosed correctly so I can apply the fix necessary.
