"New" Smash Doc outdid the original! Here's how 

21:18 kinda blew my mind

This is the video that introduced me to the smash bros community and I've been a fan ever since

i watched the hbox doc like 2 months ago thinking "damn they really hate hbox/puff. also there's a weird cult community for a 20 year old video game?" then i fell down the melee rabbit hole, watched a full hbox set, and understood everything. now im a hugs86 dreamhack dallas 2019 world champ fan

little bit of context: the video released the very same day as the Genesis 7 concluded, timed to release after Grand Finals ended. That year's grand finals was Zain vs Hungrybox. While Zain won, I still have mad respect to release the video betting on the coinflip HBox might have won.

I actually saw this doc when I knew nothing about competitive Smash so I can say that it is a good intro to the competitive scene for anyone who is new to Smash. It presents many of the storylines in an easily digestible and interesting way that is very hard to replicate. Granted, looking back, the Mango downplaying is downright criminal lmao. It's especially ironic since Hbox hadn't won any majors in both 2013 and 2014, aka the peak of the god era, yet Mango doesn't get a pass when he goes just one year without winning any majors. Like I get that it was to build narrative, but it just feels a bit too much imo.

I've shown this vid to family and friends who knew nothing about Smash and all of them loved it. The Smash Doc is kinda hard to recommend to people with no investment since it takes more than 4 hours. You can get away with putting a 90 minute film on for a movie night, but it's a lot harder to get people to sit through a miniseries.

I’m from South America and grew up with nintendo games my entire childhood, Smash being my favorite including Brawl. I always dreamed of smash tournaments here when I was little but this is not the US or Japan in my case, and eventually I grew up and kinda forgot about it. 2019 I moved to the US and my hommies there loved playing Ultimate, which I got hooked really fast; this documentary popped up on my youtube some day, and I absolutely loved it. I found out about the entire smash scene and its history, started watching majors and streams durong the pandemic and finally migrated to Melee. In fact, I loved watching Melee tourneys even when I only played Ult, then I eventually picked up the game and I regularly play both to this day.. one funny part about this story is that I didn’t even know Smash 4 even existed even after I was playing Ultimate for a while lol (that’s how successful nintendo and the wii U were down here). Hbox is a huge inspiration and I always cheer for him to this day no matter what, and that’s because of this video; picking up Melee during the pandemic was also an extremely fun and deep experience. I attended some tournaments including Genesis 8 in the beautiful San Jose, CA, and it was literally a childhood dream come true for me where I witnessed the Jmook arc, the n0ne stomp, the Fizzwiggle upset and much more all in person, so thank you EmpLemon!!

i found this video about a year after i got into competitive smash, and it got me to pick up melee, and over 3 years later this game has changed my life for the better

37:32-37:27 is the funniest part: "In his time, there were four others like him. Now, there's just one" / "In his time, there were four others like him. Now, there's just Juan"

Mango was on a slump during the creation of this video. So maybe lemon assumed he was on his way out.

I think this kind of “why it’s successful” content is dope. Even though most people don’t create content, everyone has a side of them that wants to make EmpLemon-level documentaries

It’s awesome how much Hugo appreciates the essay

23:40 This is what we come to the HugS channel for😭😭😭

Hugo: “It’s interesting that the two biggest smash documentaries make Mang0 look like a dick” Also hugs: “I coached Mang0 when he won, he didn’t thank me, but he threw 100 bucks in dollar bills and asked me if I had grabbed any. I think that was his way of showing gratitude” Why do you think it is, Hugo? Lmao

On the bit where he sidelines Mango's god status: This video was published basically at the lowest point of Mango's career where his results were on a decline, and he was saying on stream how he wasn't enjoying tournaments and losing interest in competing. Of course after his re-engagement during the pandemic and rise to rivalry with Zain et al it seems presumptive in hindsight; but if you were just drawing a straight line trend of his recent results at that point in time it wasn't as crazy a statement.

I think a lot of people criticize the doc for bias, but the point is telling Hbox’s side of the story not the entire picture. Hbox had never been understood by the community and was perennially hated, but just showing everyone exactly what happened in a different light changed a lot of perspectives on the guy for the better. The reality y’all remember isnt the reality Hbox experienced and that was the entire point of the doc; hes no antagonist, hes just one of us we all decided to hate.

I'm definitely an hdoc kid. I was slowly getting more into smash and melee, but this vid brought me in completely. It may be biased, but the doc was not the only thing that was saying mang0 was falling off (11th rank) I really like this vid because it's probably one of the best pieces of smash media to show to someone who has never seen melee. I'm not really as much of an hbox fan anymore from when i saw the video for the first time, and nowadays I definitely understand why some people don't like this video, but it can't be denied that this was a very good and influential video for smash.

I want to pronounce emplemon like pokemon

Okay so I didnt watch the video because I wanted to watch the whole uncut thing so I watched the vod on twitch instead. I think what's important to note with the "last of the gods" thing is that while the phrasing does make it sound like Mango stopped being good entirely, I think Emp means to say that Hbox was the only one still dominating the rest of the competition like the gods did in their time. Mango stopped dominating that hard, at least until after the video was out. So Hbox was "the last of the gods" in that he was the only one still dominating over everyone else, not that he was the only one still good at the game.

I totally agree that Hbox was really good for the game, but only in hindsight. When his reign was happening, a lot of the community seemed to be divisive and toxic, but his dominance allowed other players to push through and figure out how to make it a good fight. Hbox was absolutely critical in getting to where we are now, which is undoubtedly the best melee has ever been. A Pikachu won a major, a Yoshi has won a few. These are things that were previously considered impossible.

This is really interesting. I just started watching this and also am wondering what it is about this video. It got me and many more into the smash community and have been a big fan since.

You raised his spirit so he raised everyone else's in return. That's such a cool story

Lmao you deserve way more attention man. Naturally funny… sometimes I don’t even think it’s intentional 🤣 28:00

This video got me into smash during covid.

This video is the only reason like 99% of the people I knew in highschool knew about Melee and specifically they all loved HBox and that damn crab. It’s so bizarre what it did for the casual viewing of competitive Melee

Im happy that this doc introduced a large number of people to smash but it also presented a storyline with many assumptions as objective reality. Still great, but Could have been presented so much better.

EmpLemon was a fairly small youtuber prior to the first season of Never Ever, which this video is part of. He literally gained over half of his current subscriber count that year alone. Armada was pretty annoyed with the documentary as well. In his reaction video to it, he described as the reason for him quitting as not wanting to deal with toxicity he was receiving as being a peach main that was the best in the world because it was a "floaty, campy, uncool character." However since the worst of this was buried either a lot deeper on the forums that were stateside or on twitter posts of chronic posters from over 3 years ago it got missed. Which doesn't surprise me considering the production schedule he had for type of content Emp was pushing on what was a small YT budget at production time. Despite having watched this a couple times I didn't put together your spoof in this video until the karma struck. The visible shame at 40:00 was worth a good chuckle though you were ultimately right for why this is ultimately good for the community. It got a LOT of people interested and that interest generated a bunch of new blood that either stuck with it or rode it along to ultimate.

Hearing the stories being recalled from the early days of smash in this story telling kind of way (just from Hugo directly) is fucking priceless. The mang0 dollar bills thank you is so real haha

This doc def did a lot for the scene but the original doc can’t really ever be outdone imo. Partly because wife’s interview in the original is arguably one of the best interviews ever done about anything lol

I had already been a smash fan for a while when i first watched emplemon’s never ever in hbox. Incredible video, and every other video on his channel is just as quality. I’d highly recommend watching his “Sacrifices to the Church of Nintendo” video on stream as well because you could probably provide some unique insight on that topic as well.

Biased or not, Hungrybox deserved some good press. I knew Emp wouldn't be entirely accurate, and it helped that I was already into Melee before this came out, having found the community since Evo 2013. So this was just sweet for me.

Voodoo Rangers got me escorted out of Red Rocks Amphitheater near Denver. Still love em 😂

This is amazing seeing an og smash melee player make content like this. I love it Hugo❤️‍🔥

Even if this video is very biased towards HBox at the cost of Mango and Armada, it serves the purpose of EmpLemon’s script and narrative. Keeps the normies watching. There are a lot of people who say this video got them into Melee, and nearly all of them have also said they’re Mango fans now LOL

hey hugs! i love ur videos, im surprised u are doing so good with samus man. your absolutely insane bro. keep making these. keep playing smash 👍

Now the new Mang0 Melee doc has come out and outdone both docs.

ive been an hboxfan since like 2016 and this doc made everyone appreciate him more i feel

I'm so confused how you just found out about it lol, this vid pretty much changed how most people view hbox imo. It straight up changed the scene

This video was the reason i got into comp melee and became an hbox fan, but indirectly also the reason im now a mang0 fan. Mang0 is still a beast but yeah emp kinda went on the box side

This documentary got me into Melee lol

Really enjoyed this video Hugo

love the content hugs, keep at it bro

I better see the Axe doc next ;)

This is the video that got me into melee

I could've sworn you already made this a video, or maybe I watched the VOD

41:30 Nahhh majority of fgc back then thought smash was NOT a fighting game and didn't deserve the spot.

Before this documentary, my only real knowledge of competitive smash came from clip channels and general internet knowledge, and I had personally only done 2 free to enter form tournaments, one for early smash 4 (which I somehow made 3rd place… pretty much my only claim to smash bros fame), and one for the very beginning of Ultimate. After this, I had begun practicing more, Re-purchased Melee since my childhood copy was long gone, became a lot more aware of the figures in the community, and now I’m a lot more active in Ultimate tournaments in Central and Northeastern Pennsylvania, along with trying some Melee brackets when they’re available. I’m not gonna pretend this documentary is perfect, but I think it was a huge boost to the community right before online became the only option, and I think the view count is well-deserved.

Remember game store tournaments? Ya that's where I learned I'm mid tier skill at best lmao

bro this is how i got into competitive,,,.... .

it’s hilarious watching the sheer amount of cope in this from out of touch melee people

EmpLemon is a god the title of the vid realllllly pulls you in

Damn that would be a sick ass tag richard mixin

That’s a big claim that may or may not be true. Fun stream

Think this doc has a great start and middle, but largely falls apart discussing Armada (who disputes that hungry box was a major cause of his departure), Mang0 who was still really good in 2019, and the broader fgc. Great narrative but it bends reality to support a point that doesn’t quite work.

Yes HBox popped off on armada at evo. It was just delayed.

I didn't know hugs was this funny

He started with Pound 2019 to mirror Evo 2016

0:16 he’s actually talking about hbox here

The sole reason why I first tuned into a smash tournament, Smash Summit 12, was because of EmpLemon. I don't think there was any bias in this documentary that increased exposure & interest in Melee couldn't shake off. Weird statements aside, a 1-player hero's journey was always gonna be biased to some degree lol

So, he was hated because his pop offs? That's pretty common in Argentina. We are so much passionate. From what i heard he is born in Argentina. Pop off blood 😅

"New" indeed

38:15 The problem with this argument is that the video released in early 2020. Before all that pandemic stuff really hit the world.

Bro on the thumbnail looks like a young Tom Cruise.

Great response to the documentary.

great video hugs keep it up proud of you

Admittedly i feel both of you are wrong with the Mang0 results because you cant judge a video that came out 3 years ago with results that couldn't have been available at the time, thats silly. However the results at the time were not as bad as Emp made them sound, they arent like his peaks and Admittedly some of them look bad but one was a forfeited so he probably had something on his mind, his rankings and results were atill good. In addition, he whole title of being a god, whilst a bit cringe, was more of an at the time prediction of who would benon top as opposed to truth, tbf to an outsider it probably looksnthat way but its not fully like that.

Crazy fact: Big House 5 was the only BH that Armada won.

Richard Nixon would’ve main Ice Climbers

Popoff charades where you guess the smasher would make for great content

this video aint new its been around for quite a while but

Me when I bought my first house. Now what. Property taxes it is😂

I really wish you did Ultimate content similar to what you were putting out 2 - 3 years ago

I saw the smash documentary and thought it was INCREDIBLY biased.

good video but to me it’s just not the same as an actual doc this is more like a really nice fleshed out video essay

feel like watching evo2016 yesterday. Time runs..

My gut tells me Richard Nixon would main Falco

Does the goddamn richard nixon 😅😅

aww I thought there was a new smash Ult doc. about to enjoy tf outta this though

His documentary was honestly my introduction to whole Melee scene. I saw it when it came out and had under 50k views as I followed Emp for his old YTP content at the beginning. Its in general a good introduction THO the Mang0 comment was a bit outdated in the end and it kinda sucks that that comment especially invalidates the whole doc for many people. I guess its because Emp himself admitted later that he really has no experience on Melee comp and just found the Hbox thing interesting, so I don't blame him too much on it. Also I guess because fuckton of other Gods were dropping out at the same time and Mang0 performing pretty bad at the same time, it might have looked like he was dropping off at the same time. ESPECIALLY if you didn't know who the kid was or hadn't looked into Mang0 more(especially when you don't know his history etc.) Still, taking that thing off, the doc is great even in retrospect. The Mang0 comment just hurts it so much and is very dated. I also recommend Bronol's docs if YOU(who is reading this) haven't seen them. Good stuff as well.

Probably has something to do with an existing audience opposed to Travis' literal emergence from the doc. Emp dickrides the shit out of hbox but hey mangonation aint any different.

Hugs comes off like the toaster strudel girl from mean girls in this video. Idk

The doc was trying to be somewhat unbias or less bias in the beginning and middle, but just totally lost it towards the second half, absolutely crazy takes on the last god of melee stuff

ngl i feel weird that when emplemon talked about how hbox fell off and claimed that people said he doesnt deserve god status for not winning a tournament warrants no reaction, but when mango doesnt win anything (because in melee it doesnt matter if you get 2nd 3rd whatever) everyone says this video is insanely biased. I agree the video is biased but like you have to see it from the other perspective where emplemon is simply looking at the numbers.

the part about mang0 wasn't good yeah. the rest of the doc is good shit.

Regarding Mango look at it this way. Lemon's talking more about that dominant aura players like PP, Armada, Hbox, Ken, and Mango showed in the past. He goes 2018 winless, not great. He gets to 2019 and scores three wins which is great on paper, but these wins were less dominance and more scrapping or being the benefactor. GOML was a dream bracket and he was a sour spot off from losing to Swedish in Winners Quarters. Big House he was the underdog against Zain. Birthday Bash he dodged Plup and Hbox in Winners They looked like GOML 2022 where Hbox narrowly beat iBDW and was the benefactor of fighting Jmook twice for Winners/GF and him double eliminating Zain. Certainly not given to him, but hardly a run where he looked like 2016-2020 Hbox and felt inevitable. Anyway I don't agree on "questioning his God status" given M2K didn't win a Supermajor until 2018 and Hbox was shaky until 2015. I do agree that Mango seemed like more of a contender than a favorite up until he started keeping up with Prime Zain in 2020/2021 and got on a hot streak in the 2nd half of 2022. Look I'm happy to be proven wrong that he had a lot left in the tank, I'll hold that L with pleasure.

So was more of a smash 4 ult fan I was good for a causal I knew of competitive but wasn’t active in it but I got dolphin like a week before the video came out and then tried to play melee as I knew it was the best one and I grew up with it I looked up mang0 puff combo as I knew mang0 played puff at one point about a day after the video dropped I had watched EmpLemon for a few years before that so it showed up and I was like oh cool a video on melee that’s dope and after that I was hooked to the community I know much more now I think the worst take in the whole video was calling mang0 not a god but like he literally still was top like 5 in 2019 so it’s kinda cap other than that fantastic video

probably an even crazier statistic about Hbox is that The Big House 4 is also the only time he's missed top 8 at a major in his entire career

48:30 im one of those people who is completely uninformed about the melee scene, and i’ve only seen this documentary. Ofcouse because of this I don’t really understand why people hate on hbox so much, but perhaps theres something im missing so if anyone could explain why he gets so much hate please do. (And ik he gets hate for playing puff but it goes beyond that, some people seriously hate him as at a personal level, as if he smashed their mom or smth)

26:45 wrong, jmook is perfect

Really surprised you hadn't seen this but really dope of you to look into it. One of my favorite smash videos, like many others who watched I assume. Still hate puff. Not really Juan, just... puff....

I like a good amount of this doc but the implication that Armada retired due to not being able to keep up?? He was up on Hbox in that year and still looked great while playing up to the end when he decided to retire. And I say this as a Mango fan but let's not act like if Armada kept pace he wouldn't have been number 1 again and kept the field of play far more grounded than it is now. The absence of more gods across time has allowed for those that remain to further cement legacies Edit 1: also saying Armada of all people never faced the hate Hbox faced when he had to go up and be faced with a crowd who suddenly had national chants specifically against him or Leffen? For ten years? Biased

based takes

Too many people hate on this for no reason

Lmao

By being really damn good. EmpLemon hit it out of the park.

"The Five Gods" is what hooked me lol. Such a badass title. Like the Four Emperors of the Sea or Seven Swordsmen of the Mist. Definitely some anime shit.

Hugs really hate hbox lol

what is this title lol

If I was mang0 I'd pick the maker of this documentary for luds next chessboxing thing lmao especially for saying hungrybox is the only god left lol

This is EmpLemon for you. He came from making RU-vidPoops to making the best video essays on here. I'm a big fan for a long time