Small update for the video! I went back and credited the artists who came up with all the awesome fakemons I used in this video in the description and I will make sure to always do that in the future. Thank you guys for all of your support on this video I really appreciate it.
+Joe Southard Grass would counter water, but when the water type gains dragon typing as well it would only be weak to the fairy typing, but Fire/poison would 2x hit grass/fairy w/ fire and 4x with poison, as well as 4x resist both grass and fairy. Then Water would be supereffective against the Fire, but Dragon is only neutral to fire and poison. It'd be pretty unbalanced with the fire starter (once again) coming out on top.
If this has already been pointed out, feel free to tell me. But there is another type triangle that could potentially replace Fire-Water-Grass. It would be Rock-Fighting-Flying. Rock < Fighting, Fighting < Flying, Flying < Rock, and vice versa. (Fighting > Rock, Rock > Flying, Flying > Fighting.)
Sinnoh kind of already did the reverse type triangle. Torterra's Ground was super effective against Infernape, Infernape's Fighting was super effective against Empoleon, and Empoleon has access to Ice type attacks which obliterate Torterra.
If it were up to me, the next starters would have Grass + Fairy, Fire + Ice, and Water + Fighting. The effectiveness is even all around, and we could get some pretty cool designs.
Steel/fire vs grass/fairy Grass/fairy vs Dragon/water Dragon/water vs steel /fire (fire vs steel and steel vs dragon(could introduce a steel move that does super effective against Dragon pokemon like freeze-dry does water pokemon who usually resist them)
+jsleahy76 How did they pay homage to gen 1? If anyone did that it was generation 5 with the amount of pokémon that were supposed to resemble the generation 1 pokemon.
+Duane Blommaert (LilSniff) Santalune Forest was literally Viridian Forest, all of the legendaries you can catch (other tha the new ones) are from Kanto, you get to have one of the Gen I starters, and a good number of the mega of evolutions introduced were of Gen I Pokémon. That being said, Gen V tried to be a modern Gen I (btw I LOVE Gen V) by making new Pokémon similar to old ones, Gen VI literally took Pokémon and areas from Gen I directly, while Gen V was just very inspired by Gen I.
+Hiro Animation Gen II literally included the Kanto region. Gen III had... um... Help me out here... and Gen V and VI... well we mentioned that already.
+jsleahy76 That could work. Some other possible typings for a Mega Feraligatr, which I would love to see, are Water/Dark, Water/Ground, or Water/Steel with the ability being Strong Jaw or at least Tough Claws. If it's part Dragon, then Dragon Claw, Dual Chop, and Outrage will be STAB. They should make a Dragon-type biting attack as well. If it's part Dark, then Crunch and Bite will be STAB and be made stronger by Strong Jaw or Tough Claws. It could be Water/Ground since gators and crocs are associated with the swamps, plus Earthquake would become STAB. Iron tail, and a potential Steel-type biting move that should also exist, would become STAB if Mega Feraligatr was Water/Dragon. These, of course, are just my thoughts and opinions.
I completely agree with what you guys just said! Water-fighting/Water-Dragon was exactly what I was thinking! :D P.S. Excellent job on the video, I was with you the whole way!
People dont understand type triangles and tend to just look at the offensive side of it. There is a defensive side to the type triangle. Look at water, fire and grass. While the offensive cycle is known to all, defensive side is not known to all. For example, each of these types' attacks are super effective on one type of the triangle and not very effective on the other type. Fire moves have 2x against grass but 1/2 against water. Grass moves 2x water but 1/2x fire. Water moves 2x fire but 1/2x grass. Your type triangle of dark, fighting and psychic is NOT a type triangle. Dark = 2x psychic and 1/2x fighting. Fighting = 2xdark and 1/2x psychic. **But psychic = 2x fighting but 0x dark** . Thats why its not a type triangle. You need one type of the triangle to be 2x against one and 1/2x against another. Basically the defensive side needs to be balanced as well. It's surprising but actually no other such type triangles exist in pokemon in the current situation. So we can only have one triangle starters right now.
+KARTIKEYA007 This is not a Type Triangle but I really like The interecation with these 5 Types. Dark, Ghost, Psychic, Fighting and Normal. So many of them are immune to each other or just one of them is, and Dark seems to be at the Top of it All. I think if they did want a Type Triangle that would work AND one of them did say they wanted a Water Fighting.... My thoughts are the Triangle of Dark,Fighting And Psychic, Hope I didn't mess that up. Even if Dark is immune to psychic, Fighting Beats Dark, Dark Beats Psychic and Psychic beats Fighting. So it can be something like... Fire Dark, Grass Psychic and Water Fighting.
***** Hi jesse, sorry for the late reply. I believe why this triangle does not work is due to self resistance. I forgot to mention it in the original reply. What i mean is that in a type triangle, all 3 types must have the same relationship among each other, which includes their own self. This i believe is the logic behind them, they should share same amounts of 2x and 1/2x damage among all three of them. In the type triangle you mentioned, grass and poison resist themselves, but ground does not. Poison = 2xgrass and 1/2x poison and ground. Grass = 2x ground and 1/2x poison and grass, but Ground = 2x poison, 1/2x grass, but 1x ground. So ground does not have 1/2x against two of the types in the triangle, while the other two resist themselves, thus having 1/2x against two types of the triangle.
HornDrill I'm not. It's just the standard stuff for every game. When there is a triangle of something, it means them being equal in strength among themselves. This started with rock paper scissors and this triangulation has occured in other places. I'm just assuming pokemon type triangle means the same as the rest of triangles in games and in nature. It's an example of zero sum.
I really enjoyed this video and listening to your opinions. I do have a problem, though. You used a lot of different art without giving any credit to the artists. I assume that most, if not all, of the art isn't yours, because they all have different styles to them. I notice that this happens often in your videos. I'd like to keep watching and supporting your channel, because, again, I very much enjoyed listening to your opinions. But if you're going to continue using art without giving credit, I'm going to stop watching. I know that my denouncement of your channel might seem inconsequential, but I thought that you should know that what you are doing is not right.
+Hicupguy First off I really appreciate the kind words and I am glad you enjoyed the video! In response to the art that is not mine I am going to make it a point to credit the artist's who designed the art in my descriptions going forward. I also plan to fix up this description and the other one which has other people's art in the video to give the artists credit, but that will not be until later in the week when I get some more free time. I appreciate you calling me out, I meant no harm in using the art but you are very right and it is only fair to give credit where it is due!
+PokeMEN Thank you. It's good to know that you realize this and are intending on fixing it moving forward. I'll be looking forward to your content in the future.
+PokeMEN I actually kinda expect the starters to be Fire/Poison, Grass/Fairy and Water/Dragon. I'm not sure, but it just feels like something they'd do in order to show off Fairy a little more. And since the last gen had a double up on the triangle, they'd likely do the same next gen. But to get to the original topic, yeh. I'm pretty sure I've seen some "professional" concept artists make a couple of those arts. Also, great work on the video.
+Hicupguy Finally got around to crediting the art in the description, again thank you for the criticism I'll make sure to always do this going forward!
They missed their chance with the Gen 6 starters... if they done grass/fighting, fire/dark and water/psychic (or any of two other combos), then each starter would have coverage for the starter they're weak to. Instead they went with the dual super effectiveness for each starter. Stupid decision IMO.
+willprogresivo But if that were the case, it should be Water/Fighting, Fire/Psychic, and Grass/Dark for two very good reasons. They could keep the same themes pretty much just making Chesnaught a berserker instead of a knight, and the Fire-type *not* getting the secondary typing that has an immunity.
jjmblue7 Either of the 3 possible ways to make each starter have coverage for the type it's weak to works fine with me. Thing was that almost all of the combos already existed in several pokemon. Of course fire/fighting was out of the question, so that left fire/dark and fire/psychic. You've already got Houndoom, but then you've got only a legendary and a "zen mode" poke which sucks IMO, so I think Delphox was a good idea (even tho I don't like its design) for fire/psychic. So that leaves the only possible Grass/Dark (with Shiftry and Cacturne being the only two so far) and Water/Fighting (with Poliwrath being the only one aside from a legendary). Without fire/fighting, you'd have go with fire/dark, grass/fighting (Breloom the only example) and water/psychic (slowbro line and starmie).
+ヽ(*≧ω≦)ノ Cat If not pure Fire, I could see Mega Typhlosion as perhaps Fire/Electric with STAB Thunder Punch. As long as it looks cool, is never Fire/Fighting, and never has Solar Power or some bad ability, I could be okay with a potential Mega Typhlosion. I do, in fact, want a Mega Evolution for each fully-evolved Johto starter.
Seeing as Typhlosion is based on the honey badger sort of, the fire-poison would be great as the honey badger is a bit immune to the venom of a snake that it eats, so why not give that typing as mega, it would fit nicely
+ヽ(*≧ω≦)ノ Cat That is exactly what I thought while watching this video. Except for Mega Typhlosion being Fire Poison. But after a bit of thought it would make sense. Both of it's pre-evolutions (Cyndaquil and Quilava) have the word "quill" in their name so moves like Poison Sting, Toxic Spikes and others would kind of be justified.
They should do a Flying, Rock and Fighting starter. this would be a good pure triangle. You could also dual type these to the original types to remain a good pure 2x effective dual type, for example: Fire/Rock > Flying/Grass > Water/Fighting > Fire/Rock. would be cool i think.
Did they not realise that Gen 4 was the "Reverse Type triangle" they suggested? (albeit not perfect, the principle still stands) Infernape - *Fire/Fighting* - Fire is Weak to Water, Fighting is Strong against Steel Empoleon - *Water/Steel* - Water is weak to Grass but Steel is strong against Ground Torterra - *Grass/Ground* - Grass is weak against Fire, but Ground is strong against Fire
I can't believe Greninja wasn't water/fighting. He was a damn ninja! You don't get much more fighty than than. Haha! Anyway, great video guys. Just subscribed.
Those Dragon/Water and fairy/Grass fake-e-mon you showed looked like didgymon. (No offence. I really love all the videos you make and all the images you show in them. Keep up the great work!😀)
All these starter ideas seem really interesting! Normally when I play I usually hate the water starters (I dislike almost all of them and/or have better choices) but these ideas seem really interesting.
+Juvia Lockser With Charizard, Blaziken, and Infernape, Fire gets way more attention than water starters. Typhlosion still beat out Meganium and Feraligatr on Popularity, or at least tied w/ Feraligatr, and the only two fire starters that haven't gotten as much attention are the newest ones. Most of them have had Dual typings as well. Not to mention that _all_ the secondary typings they do carry are top tier types. The only water starters that really get or had gotten a lot of attention are Greninja and Blastoise, and maybe Feraligatr. But most of the one's that had gotten attention were still overshadowed by the Fire type, and half of water starters don't even have a secondary typing. Then there's grass, who's been overshadowed in every generation except _maybe_ 5th gen and is commonly left out, like with how Charizard and Blastoise are always givin' the spotlight yet Venusaur isn't anywhere to be found. Only half of them have a secondary typing as well, unless you include Mega Sceptile, but all of them except Venusaur are gaining a 4x weakness because of it. Not that it's horrible to have a 4x weakness, but it's still notable that Grass types have constantly been made to appear weaker. Fire is by far given the most attention, then water, and then grass.
Gen 1: all starters are given a lot of attention, i see a lot of people choosing bulbasaur for gen 1 Gen 2: typhlosion and feraligatr get the most attention, tied for popularity Gen 3: swampert and sceptile are the most popular, i never see ANYONE choose blaziken over these two unless they want to be different Gen 4: infernape is the most popular Gen 5: Samurott and Serperior get the most attention in terms of what people picked before the hidden abilities were released, everyone just shit on emboar before it got reckless Gen 6: greninja is easily the most popular
Juvia Lockser Bulbasaur gets quite a bit of attention still, but not nearly as much as the other two. And Blaziken gets chosen just as much as Sceptile and Swampert at the very least. But it still gets more attention imo. It got a mega early on, it's the only starter in ubers, and it was put in Pokken (although so did sceptile) as well as 3 other fire types. That's another thing i forgot to mention, 3 fire starters were put into Pokken, yet only one grass starter and no water starters.
+Holy Demon/Hypocrite Anti Dragon i really want that too, maybe with an ability like " tough claws" or " strong jaws" or any other physical attack bonus
I think the Gen VI starters was a missed opportunity because it only mad each one dominate more on the other, a little tweak will be better for even things up for example Water/Psychic, Fire/Dark, Grass/Fighting
For the Water Starter (The Water Snake Pokemon) - Water Type (The Krait Pokemon) - Water/Poison Type (The World Serpent Pokemon) - Water/Dragon Type - Delugandr (From Deluge and Jormungandr) For the Fire Starter (The Ember Cub Pokemon) - Fire Type (The Pride Pokemon) - Fire Type (The Lion Pokemon) - Fire/Steel Type - Nemolion (mix of Nemean, Immolate, and Lion) For the Grass Starter (The Hippo Pokemon) - Grass Type (The Scaly Hippo Pokemon) - Grass Type (The Devouring Pokemon) - Grass/Fairy Type - Ammitree (Ammit and Tree) SO each of the three starters would be represented by a famous beast from the three most well known mythologies, Jormungander from Norse Lore, The Nemean Lion from Greek Lore, and Ammit the Devourer from Egyptian Lore. Jormungandr was a sort of sea dragon but was also known for being extremely poisonous, so that's why it goes from just Water to Water/Poison to Water/Dragon. The Nemean Lion's skin was supposed to be totally impossible to cut or pierce, hence the half-steel typing. Ammit was a being that was part Crocodile, Part Hippo, and Part Lion (I'm focusing mostly on the Hippo-Croc elements) and was a demon of sorts. I could have also gone Grass/Dark with it, but I felt that Fairy Type was more interesting. Also, as for Secret Abilities - Tainted Waters - All Water attacks have a 15% chance of poisoning the opponent. Heroic Target - Draws in all Steel-Type moves to boost defense. Devour - All "biting" moves restore 25% of damage inflicted And Signature Moves Tail Bite (Poison) - 5PP - A move that poisons the user. Doing so sharply raises Sp. Atk and Speed. This move fails if the user cannot be poisoned. Searing Claw (Fire) - 80 BP - 15 PP - 100 ACC - 10% chance to burn opponent, 10% chance to paralyze opponent Wooden Tusks (Grass) - 60 BP - 15 PP - 100 ACC - Bites opponent with powerful carved teeth. May Cause Flinching.
In generation 4 the secondary type exactly helps beat the type of pokemon it's supposed to be weak against. Infernape fighting > Empoleon steel Torterra ground > Infernape fire Empoleon water > Torterra ground
I think if they want to keep up the new theme/type triangle they used in XY it'd be great for them to have: Fire/Poison: Maybe a Komodo Dragon for this one? So they can give it some Dragon, Poison and Fire moves. We've never had a komodo dragon before and not only is their saliva poisonous but fire produces substances harmful to organisms Water/Psychic: I think a Dolphin would be great for this because they're known as intellectual, playful creatures. Water is soothing, people love playing in it and people love dolphins. You also often see people meditating next to oceans Grass/Bug: Tropical areas (if they region is "tropical") are going to have lots of bug types and it fits into the triangle. I don't have an insect for this one because I'm not a bug fan, though. The triangle you guys made is also great because I think it'd be cool if they had a Dolphin starter that evolved into a Narwhal. Fish can turn into octopi so it's not impossible and the Narwhal could have a horn made of ice. Fire and Electricity both generate heat and grass requires soil to grow so they also all make sense.
I kind of feel like the main reason we haven't seen a water/fighting starter is because in general the water starter is meant to be more defensive. I guess Greninja kinda changed that formula but prior to that the water starters were basically all very defensive and fighting just doesn't generally have good defensive stats or moves.
This is awesome, sorry but I had to laugh a little too. I tried my own Pokémon story before x and y came out; with different starter types other than the G,F,W. It took me forever to get one triangle types right x.x which actually was Gr,S,I. LOL nice vid. can't wait to see what the announce tomorrow. *.*
I like the converse type triangle idea, and I used it in some of the stuff I was working on last night. I also think that when you try the converse option it gives you some pretty interesting dual things... The most interesting I got was Fire/Grass, Water/Ground and Grass/Poison.
I really want to see a starter pokemon who gets the ghost type. I feel like ghost types are really under sold. Also,since the Sun and Moon games are rumored to be set in the medditeranean sea area, I think it would be cool to have the starters based off of the "Big Three" Greek/Roman gods. (Posiedon/Neptune, Zeus/Jupiter, Hades/Pluto) With Neptune being water, Zeus being Fire, and Hades being Grass. Then we could potentially see a Water/Dragon, Fire/Electric, and Grass/Ghost typing situation for the starters, which doesn't exactly preserve the balance of the type triangles, but it does introduce some new strategies for early game. On an unrelated note, I would like to see gyms that don't use one type of pokemon, but instead uses pokemon of a specific Biome. For instance, a forest gym that uses grass, insect, and maybe ground types. Or a Tundra gym that uses normal, ice, water, and dark. A Mountian gym that uses Rock, ground, dragon and flying types, etc...just a fun idea I had.
I would like typings that we haven't seen much of like Grass/Electric, Fire/Fairy, and Water/Ghost. That way all secondary typings would be neutral to each other and the primary typings. Other typings I would like to see, but may not fit the triangle as nicely would be Grass/Rock, Grass/Fairy, Fire/Poison, Fire/Electric, Water/Bug, and Water/Fighting. Or they could get really crazy and do Grass/Fire, Fire/Water, and Water/Grass XD
There's one very important thing we need in Pokemon Sun and Moon: Professor Willow, the Pokemon professor inspired by Robin Williams, in tribute to him and his love of video games.
I've been wanting a reverse type triangle since XY starters were revealed. But I never stopped to piece it together. Also, mega Feraligatr as dragon confirmed? :D
i know but a fairy + grass?? what is that... ps @MANJTV thanks for letting me know about P0keMen's RU-vid channel! Anyway, time to check out Mike's channel (i believe his name was, not sure). Anyway, Peace, and also great video u guys and keep up the good work!
Also to add to the end one thing I have noticed with the starters is the the starter species; first game had all 3 amphibian/reptile hybirds , second was two reptiles and a mammal, third game had a bird - reptile - amphibian, fourth was reptile - mammal - bird, fifth we got reptile and two mammals, and finally sixth there was two mammals and an amphibian, so from this I could say the only thing we haven't had is a grass type- bird starter or all 3 mammal starters, and to go along with the hawaii-theme we have seen with the new game I bet there are some intersting bird species that could be turned into grass-type starter for example
Actually you forgot another triangle that would work really well: Fairy->Fighting->Steel With Fire/Fairy, Grass/Steel and Water/Fighting. It would be awesome! Anyway, I love your job!! :D
also a good reason why there isn't a lot of dual typings with water is because water is a very safe type it's only weak to electric and grass. however both fire and grass types have fairly common weaknesses that can put them at a disadvantage unlike the water type
They could combine the idea of the pure Fire starter and the Water/Dragon, Grass/Fairy starter, since Fairy also isn't very effective against Fire, so it would also make sense in that direction. But having Mega Feraligatr with a Dragon type still would be nice...
Mega Feraligatr SHOULD get the water/dragon typing. I personally can't see it get any other typing but dragon. There so many reasons to support it too. Feraligatr definitely resembles godzilla (Imaginary reptilian creature usually equals a dragon typing). Plus, In gen 1 we have a mega starter that is Fire/Dragon. In gen 3 we have a mega starter that is grass/dragon. So it would only be logical that gen 2 would have a mega starter that is water/dragon. FERALIGATR HYPE
The Sinnoh starters already kinda have a decent reverse triangle going as long as you just teach Empoleon an Ice type attack. There's no reason not to give it an ice type attack, and Torterra's 4x weakness makes up for the lack of STAB.
i really like the idea of a reverse trinity on starters, and was hoping it would happen in gen 6. but what it would mean is that which starter beats the other would be much more heavily dependant on speed, the propper physical/special match ups (atk to def), and if something was a bulky tank vs a hard hitting glass cannon. it could and would become a much more complex relationship between starters
I would like to see the type triangle of Ground> Rock> Ice added in following type combos- Grass/ Ground, Water/ Rock and Fire/ Ice. The Grass/ Ground type is 4x weak to Ice, the Water/ Rock type is 4x weak to Grass and the Fire/ Ice type is 4x weak to Rock, which all happen to be one of the STABs of the type they are weak to. However, almost every Ground type in existence has access to Rock type moves, which can be used to hit the Fire/ Ice type for 4x damage, almost every Water type has access to Ice type moves, which can be used to hit the Grass/ Ground type for 4x damage and almost every Fire type in existence has access to Solar Beam (and some even have Energy Ball), which can be used to hit the Water/ Rock type for 4x damage, thus creating a completely reversible starter double triangle.
I think it would be cool if the water type evolved into a water-fire type, the fire type evolved into a fire-grass type, and the grass type evolved into a grass-water type. Just to mix things up.
Top Starter Typings I would really love to see (in no particular order): Grass/Fairy, Fire/Electric and Water/Dragon. Grass/Dragon, Fire/Fairy and Water/Psychic. Grass/Psychic, Fire, Water/Fighting. Grass/Steel, Fire/Ground, Water/Ice Grass/Flying, Fire/Steel, Water/Ice I was always thinking about single type starters which could get dual typing upon Mega Evolution. Meganium - Grass/Fairy Typhlosion - Fire/Dark Feraligatr - Water/Dragon Serperior - Grass/Dragon Samurott - Water/Fighting (and add Sacred Sword go it's moveset)
Water type starters are personally IMO the strongest because of one reason: 99% of all water type starters and water types in general can learn Ice Beam or Blizzard or some form of ice-type attack, so this means that water type by far is the only type which can reliably cover one of its own weaknesses unlike fire types and grass type; almost all grass starters have shallow movepools (IM LOOKING AT YOU VENUSAUR AND MEGANIUM AND SERPERIOR) which are composed of mostly utility moves and grass type attacks with thrown in just few options like maybe sludge bomb or iron tail to name a few, grass types dont learn almost any rock-ground-water type attacks at all with few exceptions like Torterra and Sceptile who actually have pretty wide movepools .... Fire type starters have the same problem where they don't have basically any options for countering water types because they dont get any electric-grass-type attacks other than Solar Beam which later on became finally turned into a move that basically all the fire types could learn... and Thunderpunch or Wild Charge in Emboar's case..... out of all the types the water type starters have the best and most reliable way to cover their weakness.....
They could also have the same type triangle as the duel type. For example: Fire-grass, Water-fire, Grass- water. This would also strengthen the resistance to the type that it is already super effective against.
I love the water/dragon and grass/fairy idea for the starters. I'd love to see the Johto starters get megas with this type combo, and for typhlosion maybe a fire/poison or fire/steel.
