NEW Tesla Model Y w/4680 SLOWER Charging than 2170

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Electric SUV Buyer's Guide: www.cleanerwatt.com/magazine
Tesla Model Y’s with the long-awaited 4680 batteries and structural battery packs are now in the hands of customers. The charging results are in, but so far, the results are slower than what I expected. In this video I dive into some real-world charging data and discuss why I believe the new 4680 batteries are not charging as fast as I and others expected.
Out of Spec Reviews Charging Test (2170): • Charging Tesla Model Y...
Spoken Reviews Charging Test (4680): • 2022 Tesla Y Standard ...
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** All video and pictures are used with permission or in accordance with the copyright owner's stated policies and use allowance, or applicable fair use laws. **
Image & Video Clip Sources:
1. Tesla Images & Videos Courtesy of Tesla, Inc. (where noted in video)
Data Sources:
Spoken Reviews Charging Test (4680): • 2022 Tesla Y Standard ...
Out of Spec Reviews Charging Test (2170): • Charging Tesla Model Y...
LFP Range: electrek.co/2022/04/22/tesla-...
4680 Charging Article: insideevs.com/news/592311/new...
NOTE: All of the content found in this video is based on my own opinion and should not be regarded as financial advice. While the information in this video is believed to be correct at the time of recording, no guarantees are being made about the accuracy of the information presented in the video. Please do your own research or consult a licensed professional, before making any financial decisions - including the purchase of a vehicle. As of the recording of this video, I am NOT invested in Tesla, nor any other company mentioned in this video.

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16 июн 2022

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Комментарии : 146

@johnpoldo8817 2 года назад

These parameters are controlled by BMS and Tesla doesn’t want to push these new batteries very hard. If they performed much better than 2170s, no one would want a vehicle with the old battery. In the future, a software update will adjust BMS for better charging performance and possibly a few more miles of range.

@gerthddyn 2 года назад

Yours is the most likely possibility.

@The_DuMont_Network 2 года назад

I agree. My first thought,I presumed that Tesla would throttle the max charging rate for awhile to gather real world data, and make appropriate changes as the product matures.

@ertzgdds Год назад

That’s my thoughts too.

@johnpoldo8817 Год назад

Brilliant minds think alike.

@MilesCone 2 года назад

VERY good analysis of the battery differences THANK YOU !! Great job….

@erickessler6094 2 года назад

Great Report Brother! Cheers, Eric

@sebastiengosselin4889 2 года назад

to avoid the ozzy osbourne effects on 2170 models (softwate limited until 4680 fully ramp)

@Cleanerwatt 2 года назад

Seems likely for sure.

@theproffessional9 2 года назад

Ozzy Osborne 😂😂

@TheLastMoccasin 2 года назад

@@Cleanerwatt Great video!! These cells likely have a lower (worse) wh/kg figure than the highly optimized 2170 cells made with the tried and true wet electrode process. Right now, the chassis weight-saving gains are being masked by that as well as some "sandbagging" for safety until they dial in what is essentially an entirely new way to make cylindrical cells compared to their entire history.

@EntropicRemnants 2 года назад

There's another problem: volume to area ratio. When considering heat generated inside the cell from charging or discharging, the total heat under any condition will be proportional to the volume of the cell. That heat must conduct through the surface area of the cell to whatever cooling system is available where the heat radiates/conducts/convects away. Assuming that the cooling systems themselves are adequate, here's what the problem is: 2170 cell has a total surface area of 5310.86 mm2 and a volume of 24245.24 mm3. The volume to surface ratio is about 4.57 to 1 4680 cell has a total surface area of 14884.87 mm2 and a volume of 132952.2 mm3. The volume to surface ratio is about 8.93 to 1 This means that the surface of the 4680 battery must be able to get rid of much more heat per unit of surface area to the tune of almost twice as much. This factor eats into the thermal efficiencies of the tabless design. And this doesn't even take into consideration the deeper layers and how they heat must conduct through the outer layers which I suspect affects it also. So, my guess is, you won't see as much improvement in the future as you might hope. I still think it's a good design. As far as weight: somebody should tear down and compare the cooling systems between the two designs. It's possible some of the "extra" weight we seem to see in the Texas Y's is due to increased cooling system requirements. By the way, nature knows this: it's the reason Eskimos are shorter and rounder while tropical people are taller and thinner: conservation of, or ability to get rid of, heat. Did this back-of-the-napkin so to speak, but the numbers should be close.

@surferdude4487 2 года назад

The tabless design is supposed to provide 2 advantages: 1) Shorter current paths: meaning that current flowing through the cell will encounter less internal resistance and produce less heat per unit of volume. 2) Shorter thermal paths: meaning that heat generated within the cell will be easier to remove by cooling from the end plates rather than trying to cool the cells from the sides. With the tabless design, no current or heat has to travel more than 40 mm through highly conductive material, rendering the diameter of the cell irrelevant for purposes of heat calculations. If Tesla met their design goals for the 46-80 cell, they SHOULD be easier to cool from the ends than the 21-70 cells from the sides. ... Or am I missing something?

@EntropicRemnants 2 года назад

@@surferdude4487 I don't see any flaw in your reasoning, but the heat conducted through the improved internal design still has to get out of the cell -- which it does through the shell so it's still something to consider. I'm an industrial process guy, and not a battery guy. So I don't have any way to quantify how much heat per unit of surface area a tabless 4680 has vs. a 2170. I don't stand by my analysis as absolute, only that it is something to consider that may result in less of a performance increase than many have assumed. I guess time will tell! I'll rerun the numbers using just the end areas when I get home tomorrow; but some heat will still go through the sides and I have no way to model the distribution! Thanks for the reply!

@surferdude4487 2 года назад

@@EntropicRemnants I'm not completely clear about the properties of all the materials involved. As far as I know, the electrolyte is not a good conductor of heat. And, for some silly reason, somebody thought that a single tab to connect the entire anode ( a bit of foil over a meter in length for a 21-70 cell) was a good idea. That's why I doubled down on the very strong possibility that the tabless (in fact a continuous tab) cell will have better performance regardless of its diameter.

@alexmanojlovic768 2 года назад

Good answer though. Your napkins are all dual purpose too, so that's good for the environment! 👍😁

@TinkerTry 2 года назад

Great video. Spoken Reviews talks about having plenty of regen even when charged near full, which I thought was also pretty interesting, indicating a software lock, along with the similar weight. Looking forward to seeing teardowns.

@rogerstarkey5390 2 года назад

If he has regen when fully charged, there should be an indication of "101%" or higher.

@alexmanojlovic768 2 года назад

Tearing down drag strip's, tearing down ICE reputations?... 😁😉

@simpletim 2 года назад

Thanks!

@jaykay1852 2 года назад

Excellent data analysis. I’m still waiting for my LR MY, which I ordered in Oct 21 and estimated delivery in Mar 22. It has since slipped to June, then Sept, now Oct-Dec! They baited me with an accelerated delivery SR from Austin but wanted $5k more for it! I declined and the estimated delivery time slipped to a full year wait. Who the heck are getting deliveries this month? People who ordered last summer? Doubtful. Anyway, I’m going to wait for the LR MY I ordered, whether it’s from Fremont or Austin, I don’t care at this point. And from what you’re reporting, there are still unknowns with 4680 battery packs. So, there’s that.

@alexmanojlovic768 2 года назад

Apparently there's been a delay getting certain parts from Shanghai due to them having another lockdown recently which has massively slowed Austin's estimated output figures.

@richardwatts9562 2 года назад

Your on it.

@GregHassler 2 года назад

They're going to open up the speed later with a software update, mark my words.

@davedickson7068 2 года назад

I hope so! Why do you think they’re currently limiting it?

@lengould9262 2 года назад

@@davedickson7068 Safety. They don't yet have the "millions of battery cells in customers hands for x years" data they need to generate the safety statistics they need to increase the rate.

@natedogg1144 2 года назад

I bet it is a bigger battery pack. The 4680 SR AWD and LR AWD are basically the same weight, but the 4680 has a significantly smaller battery pack, unlikely The 4680 structural battery pack alone should make the Texas Model Y AWD noticeably lighter even with the same size pack. If the 4680 Model Y AWD has the same size pack as the 2170 Model Y out of Fremont, the logical guess is, Tesla will unlock it down the road for free or a small fee. This is likely being done to avoid people refusing to buyt the Fremont built Model Y LR AWDs. I'm betting the new 4680 Model Y LR AWD ehen it is unveiled will have a close to 350-400 mile range fepending on pack size. I'm guessing a new standard range Model Y SR (RWD/AWD) will have 280-300 mile range, but with a significantly smaller battery pack.

@TheNature101 2 года назад

People would have to be brain dead to pay 20-30% MORE for a Tesla that has LESS range, that takes LONGER to charger, and it has LESS features (no radar, no lumbar support, etc..). 100% BRAIN DEAD...

@patrickkrebs6334 2 года назад

@@davedickson7068 Tesla always do this with a new battery designs. It was also the case with the LFP battery lately

@armandsimonis7992 2 года назад

I suspect the reason is more simple than presented/speculated in this video: with roughly equal total battery size (in KWh) with 4680 fewer cells are building up the total battery than in a 2170 based on. So during - especially fast - charging less "parallelisation" is possible. In other words the BMS can distribute the total power input through the cable from the SuC to the car over fewer cells with the 4680 than with the 2170 at the same time (with the same SoC, battery chemicals etc) and so resulting in slower total charging speed.

@chrisvanderburg5568 2 года назад

So does the PDS system pick up the ADL lag?

@lengould9262 2 года назад

Nope.

@chrisvanderburg5568 2 года назад

@@lengould9262 hahahaha. I totally bullshitted that question hoping someone would bite. I thank you lol

@rogerstarkey5390 2 года назад

But the 4680 cell had low internal resistance. That's the whole point..... To accept charge "faster" than (5) 2170 cells using the same chemistry.

@alexmanojlovic768 2 года назад

@@chrisvanderburg5568 the Pre-Delivery System & Always Dubious Laggard? 🤣😅😂

@TheNewAccount2008 2 года назад

Interesting analysis. I find the charts a bit alarming though. Looking at other EVs (especially those from traditional manufacturers) we see more and more EVs coming out that can hold a very high rate of charge up to 70 or even 80% (and I am talking 130+ KW up to those levels.) It is pretty bad to see Tesla fall behind on this instead of leading the pack...

@lukeryan559 2 года назад

Def softwear locked to prevent the Osborn effect on their other models and for safety until it's further proven out in my opinion

@wilber8260 2 года назад

BUT, was the battery thoroughly warmed up before starting charging in both cases?

@Miata822 2 года назад

From day one I said that battery would have cooling issues. So did Panasonic's engineer in Nevada. Resistance comes from the electrochemical charging process, not just the metal substrates. More layers = more thermal insulation. Your chart really needs to add Lucid for some perspective on what is possible.

@alexmanojlovic768 2 года назад

How much real word Lucid data is there, or is it all Rawlinson's claims - I haven't been following them lately & I never trusted him from his facial expressions & mannerisms in his "technical" (marketing spiel) videos.

@Miata822 2 года назад

@@alexmanojlovic768 I have seen the Lucid pack and it was as described in Rawlinson's Tech Talk video. Not aware of any outside testing (why would they share that?) but did top up my battery Thursday at over 170kW on a 150kw charger with ambient temperature of 108f. I have no reason to distrust Rawlinson because he has given me none. Musk, on the other hand, has a long history of saying things that were not quite true. Note both the price and the range of 4680 equipped cars coming out of Austin in light of claims that Musk made. I'm more interested in the engineering of the products someone develops than in their accent.

@greghudson9717 2 года назад

What might also be interesting is a comparison of the 4680 SR batteries from Texas against the LFP SR batteries coming out of the Shanghai factory. Who know what format they are? I don't, and then there's the Alt supplier BYD with their LFP 'Blade' battery - it's anyone's guess what they will be like (but I have an Australian delivered chinese built Model Y LFP SR on order, so maybe I will find out for myself one day)... There's also the different method for charging LFP's... ) - 100% is fine, whereas LCA (Lithium Cobalt Aluminium) have this 20%-80% user limit (or suggestion at least).

@danburstein7009 2 года назад

Hey John, I was watching a video from Spoken Reviews featuring your video of a Tx. made model Y and it appeared the gray color was different then the Freemont made ones....appearing more gunmetal grey with a blueish tint I think is way better looking than the grey ones I am used to seeing on the road. Am I seeing things or is the model Y in the video truly a different color. Maybe it was wrapped?

@awjelfs5034 2 года назад

The 4680 battery pack for the model Y is half the weight of the Rivian's and that includes the seats and carpet .

@simonreeves2017 2 года назад

Hi Jonathan, the charging profile is determined by the BMS software profile, which will be designed and optimised by the Tesla engineering team. Firstly, the 4680 cells are new and still being developed and production optimised, secondly Tesla needs to avoid any battery bad news, such as degradation, or even worse, fires (heard of the Chevy Bolt?), thirdly Tesla is not able to provide 4680 cells for all its non-FLP powered vehicles; yet. So I agree with other comments here that Tesla is most likely sandbagging the charging performance of these 4680 packs - for now.

@MathScienceUSA 2 года назад

Should you compare the TABLESS (solid line) charging curve with TAB (dash line) charging curve instead? WHAT IS THE POINT of comparing different sizes of TABLESS charging times (which is slight up solid curve)?

@richard--s 2 года назад

Maybe no preheating, no long "navigate to supercharger"?

@WillN2Go1 2 года назад

Good job sorting out this puzzle. The simple answer? I don't think anyone will notice the time difference. At home commuting everyday? A slightly longer charging time is absolutely meaningless. I just drove my Long Range Model Y (2020 so 2170) from Los Angeles to the east coast and back again - with a lot of side trips (over 7000 miles) I also did a similar trip last October. Needless to say I spent a lot of time at Superchargers. I charged to 99% multiple times - and relevant here - I wrote it all down. I knew that I spent a lot of time at Superchargers, I knew that getting to 80% wasn't as long as going from ~80 to 90+% but how much? I could calculate it from my spreadsheet, but I haven't yet bothered. Based on experience and daily range anxiety on these road trips, I think a 400 mile range Tesla would generate huge demand and a much higher price.

@chrisvanderburg5568 2 года назад

Ya. Tesla is sandbagging the 4680 battery performance until they have been used widely out in the wild. Then software update in incremental amounts

@AudiTTQuattro2003 2 года назад

...sure. Because Elon has never ever over promised and under delivered before.

@BarryObaminable 2 года назад

@@AudiTTQuattro2003 $oftware updates for more range, faster $peed later.

@jerrymartyniuk2221 2 года назад

Heat is created as per volume, BUT heat is dissipated as per surface area. Hence larger cells have more difficulty removing heat.

@surferdude4487 2 года назад

If the inside of the cell were a blob of amorphous material, you would be correct. But it is a roll of foil and electrolyte. The foil conducts heat and electricity well, the electrolyte does not. The tabless design places the entire edge of the foil in contact with the end of the can. this means that heat is removed much more efficiently and evenly from the end of the can than it was through the side of the 21-70 can. Also that the cell losses to heat from resistence is greatly reduced because no path is longer than 80 mm. There is les heat to remove per unit volume than the 21-70. The surface area to volume ratio is not the only thing to consider here.

@jackylsmith8138 2 года назад

The weight is interesting, since the weight was supposed to be reduced allowing it to be more efficient. Tesla is short on 4680’s and I can’t see them putting extra in a vehicle that odds are a lot would not pay the extra for. That is not a wise move, since batteries are the most expensive part of the vehicle. Charging speeds will most likely be updated, but I don’t think it will be faster then the 2170’s. Rumor has it that there is room for 6 battery modules in the Y, they are 17Kw each, so these should have 4 in them making 68Kw. 5 would be 85Kw and 6 102Kw. With ranges for 5 of 348 miles and 6 of 418 miles. If Tesla upend the voltage a bit they could charge faster. They don’t need to go to 800v, there is a good increase just going to 480-500v.

@SharpRealtyGroupTx 2 года назад

So would you get the Austinbuilt model y or no?

@SirHackaL0t. 2 года назад

%age is useless unless you also include the capacity of the batteries. 80% of 135kWh is nothing like 80% of 70kWh.

@joe55514 Год назад

Longe Range Software Update for 4680 AWD that brings range and charging speed parity to LR 2170 for 4000 USD in fall 23.

@iandavies4853 2 года назад

I call BS on charging speed, with respect. It’s not dia, there’s a number of novel moves, DBE, probably higher silicon on anode, maybe lower Co, Tesla manufacture vs Panasonic (very accomplished). Give ‘em time, they’ll gain confidence, as you say at end. I doubt "size" is software locked, others explained cells required / voltage / pack size. I can’t explain weight. Edit: insideevs: "we know the cell count (828 cells) so we can calculate the energy in the pack (74.1 kWh). We have estimated the series-parallel arrangement of the cells (4, 23S9P modules making a 92S9P pack)" I can’t vouch for that, but…

@loopbloke 2 года назад

any update on air suspension for model y?

@mbican 2 года назад

You need OBD data. It depends on pre-heat temperature. You are also comparing different capacities. You need to normalize it by capacity. Also Tesla historically increases charge speed by software update after they collect more data on the batteries.

@rogerstarkey5390 2 года назад

Well said. I really can't understand why at least one of the "expert" reviewers in the US doesn't obtain and use an OBD2 port scanner and relevant software like "others" do elsewhere (we all know who)

@AudiTTQuattro2003 2 года назад

@@rogerstarkey5390 ...my guess would be, it doesn't help the fanboy community since "they" expect limits to be increased later.

@Zripas 2 года назад

@@AudiTTQuattro2003 4680 is a new technology, Tesla wont risk it by releasing its charging at full speed, after all, Tesla cant make mistakes or every single news paper will start spreading fud about it. Additionally, having same car with vastly different batteries can create Osborne effect, so this new battery roll out is quite with same range, performance, charge times and so on. If there was no difference between these ones and old batteries, Tesla would have dropped this idea and continued using old ones, as it would have been cheaper than making their own.

@mattobadia 2 года назад

They released the SR+ with a charging limit of 100kW, then a few months later bumped it up to 170. I think this is the same thing happening. Not to mention they haven't fully loaded the cathode with as much silicon as they plan to in the future.

@utkarshahuja236 2 года назад

Cathode will never have Si. the anode has Si.

@AudiTTQuattro2003 2 года назад

...if only there was a way to communicate actual Tesla intentions and technical data, other than by continuing RU-vid channel speculation and guessing about serious economic parameters.

@danielgriggs5658 Год назад

Perhaps a 'tabless' 2170 battery could be an option?

@SejalPatelDrSej 2 года назад

Apparently you can charge new 4680 to 100 percent without warning. Since we know the cells are nickel based and not iron this would also suggest a larger, software limited pack as the “100 percent” charge would actually be a lesser percent per cell with the charge distributed amongst all the cells in the pack.

@2nd3rd1st 2 года назад

Charging the last 10% takes ages

@SejalPatelDrSej 2 года назад

@@2nd3rd1st not really related to my point but true

@2nd3rd1st 2 года назад

@@SejalPatelDrSej Right, but on the topic of charging times I'm just saying that a 100% charge really pushes the limit of what is useful

@PhillipStewartYYZ 2 года назад

Incorrect. There's still a top 10% labeled trip.

@harrywoods9784 2 года назад

Just a thought, the Osborne effect🤔IMO

@peterbroderson6080 2 года назад

Oh my god, seven minutes slower, wow big F..ing deal! the 4680 are going to make a huge difference in the long run!

@AudiTTQuattro2003 2 года назад

Why? No weight reduction. Slower charge times. More expensive chemistry (at least in original design). Less range.

@alexmanojlovic768 2 года назад

@@AudiTTQuattro2003 whatever you're being paid: it's WAAAYYYYY TOO MUCH!!!

@davidpearn5925 2 года назад

How much extra energy will be needed to bring the thicker battery up to an efficient energy delivery speed……..and, in this case, energy acceptance speed ? I’m thinking the wh/km aren’t going to be particularly impressive either, particularly on trips of only 50 miles/80kms. I suspect you will have to spend more time (or higher speed) on a motorway in order to achieve the optimal cell temperature.

@davidpearn5925 2 года назад

Preheating might need significantly longer time ………if there is actually any benefit in doing that - I’ve not noticed any obvious benefit in our southern winter this year. THAT is a mystery to me.

@lakers-1 2 года назад

Why still use battery if new battery is so much better? Should model S/X use 4680 also?

@rogerstarkey5390 2 года назад

It's a guess

@kbmblizz1940 2 года назад

Building in more 4680s to sw release later would be dumb. Weight and cost penalties on 100% of cars. Reduces miles/kwh metric. 4680 ramping slower than expected, too in demand to be used as deadweight.

@taefravis 2 года назад

The structural battery pack does not allow for empty space and so to fill that space with fake cells would be truly dumb.

@Dixie3888 2 года назад

Excellent work. Although 4680s aren't world beaters currently, it is amazing that Tesla has become a battery manufacturer so quickly, with cells as good as the best in the world first time out. They will improve, but I guess it will be slower progress than we all hope.

@AudiTTQuattro2003 2 года назад

...all done through partnerships?

@Paul-cj1wb 2 года назад

It's still 400 volts architecture. 4680's are meant for 800 volts architecture. You included the EV6 and Ionic 5 in your list of fast charging cars, however you omitted the Lucid Air, the Porsche Taycan, and Audi E-Tron GT. Those 5 are the fastest charging cars and all have one thing in common: They are all 800 volts or higher architecture. 400 volts is the past. Raising the Amperage to compensate and get to 250kw for a very short while is a nice trick, but it's very bad for the battery and extremely inefficient (the higher the amperage, the greater the heat and losses). 800 volts and higher is the present and future. Until Tesla turns to 800 volts, they are not going to be in the top 5, or even top 10 soon, in charging speeds.

@bbalintka 2 года назад

How long would it take for a 4 motor 500 mile CT with at least a 150kw battery to charge from 10-80%?!

@saff226 2 года назад

pack size shouldnt make much of a difference to charging time. you just need a larger charger. i really hope the ct has a 200kw pack. it should be cable of charging at 600kw if the cooling system is up to it

@Sheriftoma 2 года назад

In terms of charging, do you know if the 4680 battery has the capability of being charged to 100% every day without battery degradation,like the LFP battery?

@mbican 2 года назад

No, it's nickel chemistry

@alexmanojlovic768 2 года назад

The chemistry/heat, & not the shape/format is the issue with 100% charging & dendrites forming, thus destroying battery life/capacity over time.

@craiggraham9061 2 года назад

instead of showing kwhr/min, why not just show kw? (E.g. a 60watt light bulb = 60 watt hours/hour)

@larryc1616 2 года назад

4680 is much more durable/reliable and can charge much faster than 18650 and 2170. 4680 semi will be using dual megachargers

@mbican 2 года назад

No, no, no. It's same chemistry. It's just cheaper due to bigger size.

@AudiTTQuattro2003 2 года назад

@@mbican ...at this point, even the Tesla cult can't keep the chemistry vs form factor stuff straight. What an absolute nightmare trying to keep straight which battery your Tesla has, and heaven forbid, you need to replace it.

@dancar2537 2 года назад

they did not software lock it. that s what they are able to do. they would better buy amprius or enovix. they could have come with it on the market much faster

@ericwood319 2 года назад

its 50 kw pack

@mcopanzan 2 года назад

Some of the tings that Tesla's marketing team is doing is just baffling to me, things like constantly increasing prices to the point where the M-3 is now some 12K+, is almost as if they are trying on purpose to drive customers to other brands. They took away from the store the Standard Y rwd, which is the only car i really care about in their lineup, strange times.

@BarryObaminable 2 года назад

because they want to make sure everything is monitored. then they will provide additional charging speed and range.. maybe with a premium package add on. Whats $1000 here and there. haha

@emceh 2 года назад

Tesla aim is not to provide better performing batteries but cheaper to build and with better longevity and reliability. As you said 34 min for 10-80% is EV standard so they're not worse than competition. Could be that speeds will change with OTA but i wouldn't expect miracle.

@surferdude4487 2 года назад

A kilowatt hour is a kilowatt hour. The shape and size of the battery will not magically add more range. What will add more range is: a lighter vehicle, a more streamlined vehicle, a more efficient drive train or... wait for it ... A battery pack that holds... MORE KILOWATT HOURS! Given the improved thermal and conductive properties of the 46-80 cells, I fully expect that Tesla has software limited the charging curve until they gain more confidence with the properties of the new cells. I am surprised that the mass of the two vehicles is nearly the exact same. I would expect the newer Model Y to be around 100 KG or more lighter. In any case, the larger cells mean less BMS, less time manufacturing cells, less wiring, less material wasted as cell cans, less cost to build. I would hope that Tesla would pass these savings on to the customers, but, with demand being absolutely silly right now, we won't be getting any breaks today.

@hedleypepper1838 2 года назад

I think each if the 4680 innovations have come with compromises and the compromises have stacked up to make it no better than the 2170 cells, hopefully the price will be better, lower prices is what's really needed to accelerate the transition to sustainable energy

@szymonfryca 2 года назад

Charging 25% longer but VITALITY 1000% LONGER for several thousand miles!!!

@RWBHere 2 года назад

Great report. Thanks! 🙂👍 Something to be aware of: At 13:02 - If something begs the question, why do you bother to ask it? Maybe you meant to say 'which _raises_ the question...' instead? A beggar; someone who is seen as very poor and worthless begs.

@nycandre 2 года назад

Please check your English dictionary .. English is not at all alwasy logical (like most languages)

@RWBHere Год назад

@@nycandre I am English. Logic has nothing to do with this. He simply used the phrase incorrectly. This mistake is becoming more common. Frequent repetition of a falsehood does not make it correct.

@EvEvangelist 2 года назад

Do you think It is purposefully choked pending further exposure to the Mothership

@Cleanerwatt 2 года назад

Haha...

@GregHassler 2 года назад

100%, that's what's happening. They just need more data and they'll unleash it later.

@davidrobinson7771 2 года назад

Throttled. Once all factories are producing 4680 cells. Whoosh! Software update. Straight out of the Tesla hand book. "Under promise, Over Deliver."

@cameronbarnes5882 2 года назад

Sandbagging on a new level

@B4119812B 2 года назад

4680 is the gold standard for now, in Tesla's eyes. I wonder what the next battery update / cell chemistry / layout be? I"m hoping for the Lithium-sulfur battery. 450 (Wh/kg)

@blusensation2350 2 года назад

software locked charging rate

@kcharles4630 2 года назад

Thanks for the vid. Imagine if Tesla has simplified the design to just one battery pack size managed by software limiting for all trims? The profit margins on the higher-end trims could be ridiculous.

@rogerstarkey5390 2 года назад

Imagine if they said "Well just waste cells we could use elsewhere"? Doesn't sound like Tesla, does it?

@jameshoffman552 2 года назад

Because they’re actually LFP?

@nathanbradforth3408 2 года назад

You do know the 4680s are software locked for now until they have more data on real world and elon hinted that Tesla's charging will go up to 325kwh next but I don't when and it probably won't be the 4680 until they are real world tested

@tarekyared4404 Год назад

He also hinted there would be a 1 million mile battery in 2020 and 1+ million Tesla "robotaxis" by 2019. He also hinted at solving the world's traffic problems with underground tunnels and a hyperloop system. He also has been "hinting" at FSD since at least 2015. Mercedes beat Tesla to Level 3 autonomous driving approval in Tesla's old stomping grounds, California.

@nathanbradforth3408 Год назад

Sorry for not replying to to the whe reply but short on time so just addressing the 1st and only bit I read about million million mile battery. I'm not sure if you realise but they do have the million mile battery with the LFP batteries. 330 miles range as an average multiplied by 3000 cycles they get is 990000 miles and they've had them for ages. Facts are facts buddy, you might want to get to comfirmation bias goggles off as you will just be kept proven wrong.

@kevintran1070 2 года назад

Slower charge reduces charging current, which is better for the battery. It seems that Tesla is monitoring the new 4680 battery performance to optimize the charging speed later

@ducatiduke 2 года назад

It all has to do with positives and negatives.... Maybe they are limiting the charge rates for the 4680 packs in the wild to understand things. If I know Elon and his brain crew, they tend to push for cutting edge intro to tech/beta, but all hands on deck on analysis of real world data to analyze to understand and to pivot on.

@tsamuel6224 2 года назад

Bunch of BS. The 2 batteries cool differently. The 2170 cools through sides & 4680 cools through end((s). The 4680 cooling is supposed to be vastly better & it simply sucks. Or the chemistry is different.

@Larckening 2 года назад

It's all about avoiding the Osborne effect

@bantumorpheus4496 2 года назад

Ya know, Jon, I ordered a Model Y in December 2021, I got a text, today asking if I'd like the Texas Model Y that has ONLY 279 miles per charge. I new in advance, after learning of the 50 mile per charge SHORTAGE, that, living in South Florida high-rise where I could NEVER Home-charge, I could not afford to loose 50 miles. What I'm very disappointed with TESLA in the last 6 months, is the sloppy and seemingly CARELESS, 'Oh-by-the-way' increasing number of reduction in PROMISED Quality as promised to get me to buy the model I chose. -- Between the NERVE racking rumors I'm increasing hearing about TESLA's Service and all these 'Oh-by-the-way' WE CAN'T GIVE YOU WHAT WE ORIGINALLY PROMISED YOU NONSENSE, I am increasingly stressed over 'WHAT-ELSE' is TESLA gonna NOT GIVE ME AS promised for this $67,000 Luxury(?) EV by the most recent 'JULY 10th to August 23 forever MOVING DUE DATE! -- So, there is no way in hell I'd 'Shoot-Myself-In-The-Foot' by accepting a Model Y, with 50 miles less per charge, and for a LOUSY $2000 discount, that I still may get an UNKNOWN number of 'Oh-by-the-way' YOU CAN'T get this or that, because of 'this surprise or that surprise' Unproven '4680' Almost-a-Model-Y! -- Tesla is starting to disintegrate in the areas of both inventive quality and overall customer service & satisfaction quality, and I haven't even gotten my Model Y yet. -- This is stretching my loyalty to new heights EVERYDAY! - So much so, I don't know WHAT I WILL be dumped with by the time I get my Model Y! - This is terrible!

@AudiTTQuattro2003 2 года назад

...and yet, the fanboy community sees nothing but rainbows and unicorns when it comes to Elon and his promises. Demand is so high, no one cares.

@MsAjax409 11 месяцев назад

So what did you end up doing?

@thanksno4911 2 года назад

One charging event is insufficient data.

@bantumorpheus4496 2 года назад

Jon, I don't think, at least anywhere in my family in the U.S., there is anybody more promotive and supportive of TESLA than I am. But you have to always stay steeped in REASONABILITY and, always 'KEEP-IT-REALISTIC & Practical', especially in this 'High-INFLATION' economic environment, when talking about purchasing a $67,000 dollar 'luxury' EV. All of the 'GUESS-WORK' is both unreasonable and unexceptable for an EV in this price Class & Range! - And I think TESLA is losing site of this economic reality in their Frantic RACE to high production. and I get that this may be normal at this stage in their Ramping! -- But how far can TESLA Realistically EXPECT Non-TECHNICAL Consumers to go with tolerating SOO Many 'Oh-By-The-Way' disappointment before they realize TESLA, and EVs in particular, just are not there yet as far as FINISHED Product and Customer Satisfaction is concerned, even although they are the best in the game! -- I for one have decided to STOP TELLING my family to go EV because THE INDUSTRY AS A HOLE, more & more appears at least another 2 years from being 'Comprehensive enough for the average, TECHNO-DUMB American consumer who are still asking 'Where To Put The Oil, and even GAS in a EV! -- My fear for TESLA is not with their abilities, but more with the infantile EXPECTATION of American consumer at todays stage at least!

@MsAjax409 11 месяцев назад

You're probably correct on this, but TECHNO-DUMB American consumers will only get on board near the top of the S-curve, and that's consistent with current supply constraints.

@AudiTTQuattro2003 2 года назад

Just as heavy, charges slower and has less range...but the Tesla community is sure that the batteries are software limited. Time will tell, but looks more over promised, and under delivered...again.

@nemeanlioness 2 года назад

Simple answer is 4680 are a scam. Hope I’m wrong

@MrArtist7777 2 года назад

The 4680 batteries were WAY over hyped as they cost about the same price as any other tiny, cylindrical battery, their range and cycle life are about the same and they charge slower. Once again, Musk conned everyone, like his full self-driving will be out this year, as he’s been saying for a decade, and the Roaster II will be in customer’s hands by 2020. I’m a huge EV fan but can’t stand Musk and not interested in Tesla.

@AudiTTQuattro2003 2 года назад

...and the fanboys just double down on Elon. The cult lives on.

@Zripas 2 года назад

@@AudiTTQuattro2003 Seriously, who pays you to make these comments? I want some too.

@truepersona6804 2 года назад

The battery pack of an EV is so heavy that it's equal to the weight of six adults that's before the real passengers sit in. The US government will "surprisingly" announce later the repair cost of roads and bridges have tripled because of the impact the millions of EVs have had on the infrastructure not to mention ecological disaster that is involved in making and dumping the EV batteries. FUN FACT: If we take curb weight to be 25% extra for Telsa Model S compared to Toyota Camry thats 550 kilograms or 1200 lb which is the weight of SIX Americans on diet 🤣🤣🤣

@MsAjax409 2 года назад

AWD Lexus RX 350: 4,387 pounds AWD Tesla Model Y: 4,555 pounds Difference 168 lbs Think about the reduction in brake dust and noxious emissions that people will no longer be exposed to.