New start values for the most common vaults in the 2022-2024 code of points including handspring family, Tsukahara family, Yurchenko family, and Half-On vaults. Comment down below what you think about these values!
Instead of taking away 0.4 for vaults, why didn’t they just add back the 5th requirement back on the other 3 events 😭 It just feels depressing seeing gymnastics constantly improving but the scores are getting lower.. :/
Couldn’t agree more. Vault is my favorite event (I know, I’m weird) and “depressing” is the only good word I can think of to describe this. Like come on people! If they didn’t want to bring back the fifth CR, maybe make them each worth 0.6 or something, but stuff like this makes it so difficult to compare scores across quads. Remember when the best vaulters would be performing 6.5 D vaults? Yeah… It’s FINE I’m FINE I’ll just go rewatch Beijing and London Olympics and eat too much chocolate and embrace the bitter nostalgia for what once was but can no longer be, it’s FINE
yes the vault hasn't not really improved a lot in this OG cycle, expect the Biles and the Front hand double I don't really see any new vaults being introduced.
I think AA gymnasts should be required to compete two different vaults in order to qualify to the AA final. Like if you're going to be an AA gymnast you should be capable of meeting the requirements on every event to potentially advance to an event final.
People are gonna get into the vault final with a 13.7 now 😭 since judging is so biased, this is making it easier for judges to bullshit the podium. If a DTY was a 5.8 and an Amanar a 6.5, underscoring from the judges would have to be pretty drastic.
Cole not really. The deduction is practically across the board so if you could have only done a DTY before and for that you got you 5.4 and that is still all you can do now, there is no advantage to you over the person who use to do a Cheng and still does a Cheng today. What I want to see is what D value they are going to give the BILES 11 vault and will that be devalued too come next quad considering when it will be submitted.
This is wired. I get that they are trying to make all events evenly scored and vaults have the highest E scores by far you can't just downgrade all vaults by 0.4 . Now vault will be the lowest scoring event. Even the best DTYs will score about 13.9ish and the best bar workers score like 14.7
The judging for vault is so obnoxious and arbitrary now. The same vault could score a 13.700 or a 14.3 depending on who the gymnast was. Now it’s even easier for judges to manipulate the placing. Blehh
This isn’t necessarily fair. The best vaulters have their primary vaults as an Amanar (now 5.4) or Cheng (now 5.6). If it’s well executed, it should score approx. 14.7.
This is so sad… If they keep this up, soon scores will drop so much that it’ll feel like we’re back in the perfect 10 system haha Okay that was a bit extreme but you know what I mean. This makes me annoyed because like… what’s the point again? Why do you have to constantly be changing fundamental things every four years, it’s just less exciting to see elite gymnasts score 13s than it is to see them score 16s like we used to in 2008… Also this code has been around since 2006 so you’d think they’d have things figured out by now and not have to keep changing everything all the time, now it’s just impossible to compare scores across quads
@@MD-722 No. It was pretty similar to 2009-2012 other than some more minor changes. But scores were pretty similar except a little lower on uneven bars and vault. It was going in the right direction.
@@mjamitche5245 Same. I liked how in 2013-2016 they encouraged gymnasts to move from choreography to tumbling more quickly on floor and the amanar was rightfully downgraded from 6.5->6.3. But they were pretty similar honestly.
If they want to get vault scores more in line with other scores, fine, but then you need to also cut bars values and boost floor ones. It's unfair for people whose best event is bars to be given such a large advantage in AA, the potential to get a gigantic score on bars is so much bigger than any other event now. ALSO it's a crime that the CoP is fine with erasing the Amanar. It needs to be scored higher, I'm so sick of seeing a million DTYs from most gymnasts, and the top vaulters all doing Chengs because the Amanar isn't worth it anymore. Seriously, we basically only see two vaults anymore. And the Cheng is ugly, so it's all the more frustrating
I agree with you. This reminds me when nastia liukin (she had beautiful gymnastics im not hating on her) defeated shawn johnson just because she had strong bars. Shawn performed an amanar and a much more difficult floor, yet she still lost because of nastias bars
@@bluepanther1013 Only one type of UB connection has been downgraded one tenth, but let's not forget the additional 0.2 bonus for D+ dismount (can't believe they're gonna give bonuses to full-ins). They actually end up winning tenths unless they were heavily relying on D + E connections and Nabievas/Piked Jaegers (rip Suni).
I think the front handspring vaults are overall performed poorly with piked position through most of the rotation and usually flexed feet. I prefer the overall execution of gymnasts who do Yurchenko or Tsukahara entry.
The newer the code, the lower the scores. It’s such a pity. Gymnastics has evolved a lot and many gymnasts are doing much difficul skills than 10 years ago and yet, if you look at the scores you tend to think the opposite. If it continues like this, a score of 13.000 will become massive in the future.
@@jbmusician2007 well considering the vault is lower on the women’s side, and seeing how upright her chest is on landing, I don’t fully agree with the “men do it better than she ever will”
I think some of these vaults should be devalued, but an across the board devaluing by the same amount, doesn’t seem to make sense. Vault is super important though. It’s really the event that gives the US it’s advantage.
Kerry it can also be deemed the HARDEST apparatus to score properly on. Vault is a ONE TIME thing. There is no get up and continue your routine. It is in my mind the most dangerous as well and I will never try to rank it along any other apparatus. I don't mind downgrading some but not all and not all to the same degree either. This spells fishy
but it won't hurt nor benefit any country when they devalued them all by 0.4. USA is still going to do their Amanars while Russia will do their DTY etc
@@aliciamcdonald7105 yes, you can't "get up and continue" on vault, but it's definitely not the hardest apparatus to score properly on. Actually, the fact that it's a one time thing makes it easier to score on. On vault, if your feet are flexed during flight, that .1 in deductions. On the other events, it's .1 EVERY single time your feet are flexed. If you take a large hop back on the vault landing, it's. 3 off in deductions; on floor, it's .3 off EACH TIME you take a large hop back. That's 1.2 off if you take large hops in each of your tumbling passes. Vault is definitely not the hardest to score well on. Also, all of gymnastics is dangerous. One wrong move on any of the apparatus could lead to a broken bone.
@@tofarati2032 The fact that you only have ONE TIME to score on an apparatus could never be an advantage over an apparatus where you have up to 90 plus seconds to build a score and in the case of bars almost unlimited time. You are talking about flexed feet and hop on landing for vault but what about missing your block altogether and FALLING. Falling on VAULT you are aware does not afford you the opportunity like other apparatuses to GET UP AND GO AGAIN do you? I stand by my position. The apparatuses are not equal and NO attempt should be made to bring 'equality between sv's" between them. It is RIDICULOUS!! Got it right this time gymfan!!
@@nmixx.changeupletsgo Which is utterly stupid, Vault is the HARDEST apparatus to navigate a good score on. It does not allow you to get up and continue the routine if you fall, it does not give you CR values, you have very little time to do the whole damn thing. They should not try to match it more with other apparatuses because it is UNLIKE every other apparatus. You either hit a vault or you don't. I could conclude from this new code that the ones behind it are FOOLS, lacking true understanding of how to make this sport more open to innovation. Hope most of these changes particularly vault last only ONE QUAD. It will be interesting to see if Simone will debut her DYP now and if so what value they will give it and whether it will suffer the same downgrade as the other vaults considering when it is submitted.
This is the one area where I really disagree with the new COP. The FIG seems to be going out of their way not to reward difficulty and innovation. If you don't want to reward gymnasts for doing difficult vaults badly, then penalize them for doing so with a low E score. This should be done across the sport. That way you reward the gymnasts that are truly excellent and curb the trend of athletes trying to do skills that the can't in order to get the larger base value.
The problem of vault scoring is not the difficulty: the problem is that a fall actually costs a 0.5 and not a full mark, because the score of each vault is halved in the end, and only then they are made a total. That's why we have always seen very bad executed vaults or even falling athletes to win medals, what I particularly find very unfair.
My first thought was "wtf, do they think these vaults aren't as hard any more?" But then I remembered how much I hate the point disparity between apparatuses and always wondered why vault was so high in comparison to say...floor with 4 major tumbling passes... It makes sense in the grand scheme of things, but they should have just raised the start value of the other events
I don't see how that will work when as soon as a gymnast submits a vault that's "too dangerous" the federation will simply devalue the value for safety reasons. It's ridiculous. Basically, they just don't want anyone to be able to have a huge D score on vault anymore.
Unless bar score goes down again, bars is still one of the event that you can score too high. I still don't understand why floor gets such tough deduction while bars is like we don't deduct correctly. Get your brains together FIG, all four events should score evenly
I know that vault is the event that always scored very well, but to me, a 5,0 SV is not representative of the difficulty of a vault (and the prudonova gosh…). I’m just kind of sad because gymnast are doing crazy things and the score never stop getting lower. In this code a 14 would be a very good note and I think in the 2025/2028 one, we would probably not see any score in the 14s, which is weird since a mid 13 in 2012 was a score with 2 falls !
i wish i could run the fig so i could fix the code. the code in london 2021 was the best because you could still score high but it wasnt like the 2008 code
Since the scores are lowered across-the-board, the only real Advantage is for individuals and teams who are not a strong in Vault since they won't be penalized if they have poor performances. Teams that are stronger in uneven bars will benefit from the change
Well, I never understood why Vault had such high scores to begin with. So honestly I agree with new rules and I frankly would have downgraded vault even more. There is nothing really to judge. Beam, UB, Floor all require FAR more effort/skill to be excellent at and have far greater potential to judge/fail at.
Your comment makes no sense, since Vault IS in fact one of the most difficult apparatus for an athlete, because it demands so much from an athlete's body. Imagine running Full speed into a stationary object. So, yes, the athlete does only one thing. But by no means It should be really downgreaded as it is. Now an like Derwael gets 13.666 on Vault, 15.4 on Bars. While Andrade, for instance, gets 14.666 on Vault and 14.333 on Bars. What I am trying to say is that bars and Beam specialists will NAIL on this Code, while Vault and Floor specialists will suffer deeply
@@matheusborges9341 The question is also the amount of TIME spent preparing for different apparatus's. So what if Vault takes a lot of power and is difficult? You do it once, not continuous for a minute as done on floor or UB's and there lies my biggest problem. Far harder to do something continuously precisely than once. EDIT: And no, I do not have to "imagine" running at Full speed into ... Done it and no guy I ever knew though Vault was difficult compared to the others. We all thought ALL the other apparatus's were FAR more difficult and far more likely to injure us.
@@w8stral The amount of time spent doing a vault is JUST the reason why it should have a higher start value. On vault you DO NOT get two attempts to complete it so if you FALL on this apparatus you don't get to go back up on it like beam and bars. So vaulters are performing a HIGH risk element with NO CHANCE of building a score if they don't get it right at their FIRST ATTEMPT.
See my reply to matheusborges for why I think you are missing a link, but hey, if you think its harder than a 1+ minute performance on floor where deductions are raining down and not only are they numerous deductions have another component where completely subjective for "artistic value"... Uh, Ok... I call Pure BS. =) Actually the difference between average vault and Excellent is not much is yet another major reason I think Vault should be downgraded. Personally I think balance beam score for women should be upgraded regarding linking elements together, but then again I am a guy with a certain pair of deficiencies in this aspect of gymnastics so... =) @@aliciamcdonald7105
why is the front handspring with 1/2 turn entry worth less the front handspring entry. while the round off back handspring with 1/2 turn entry is worth more than the round off backspring entry?
Am I wrong, but is there any of the vaults the women are performing in international competitions that is not just reduced with 0,4 points? This seems like FIG has basically not evaluated any of the vaults in comparison to each other since they are rated the same in comparison to one another. For instance I think it was getting “boring” to see such a big part of the women “just” doing double yurchenko. They could do anything just to make it more interesting and more inviting to use other vaults. Personally I think upgrading yurchenko - half on vaults would be interesting... I’m still looking forward to see a yurchenko- half on - double front - that would be cool, and I guess easier to get all the way round of the gymnast through good technique uses the power from the yurchenko entry 😍
So this is what they do to reduce the small advantage that vaulters have in the AA and team competitions? Because vault has less deductions compared to the other events, they just make the vaults so low! I don't know how to feel about it. I'll have to see how it plays out in placements. If they use this to give people medals that didn't deserve it, then I'll complain. Right now, I'm just gonna wait and see.
what's the point of doing this every 4 years? they used to say it's so they'll do harder tricks but when simone does harder tricks she doesn't get full credit/value. there's literally no logic going on here..
I actually really, *REALLY* fucking hate the constant lowering of vault skills. I almost get it with some skills and connections on UB, BB, or FX, but this is ridiculous. The idea that a NAILED Yurchenko 2.5 could still just *barely* get a gymnast a 15.000 (if they got an E-score of 9.6) is honestly really upsetting. It feels like by 2032, we're going to see average scores hovering just above a 10.0, and it's going to be so sad.
I don’t agree with some of them, they can’t do a Cheng, or a Biles but to downgrade them. That just pssssh! That the heck. I mean, should a DTY be down graded, yes, maybe it open up a variety of other vaults so that the judges aren’t judging the same vault in a meet because every other persons doing it.
Acredito que seja porquê as meninas fazem notas de execução comparativamente mais altas no salto do que nos outros aparelhos. Ex: quase impossível um salto com nota de execução de 7,0-7,9, ja na trave e solo eh bem dificil vermos notas acima desse valor. Acredito q o intuito foi uniformizar a nota em relação aos outros aparelhos. O salto em si nao me incomodou tanto pq todos foram desvalorizados por igual, mas a trave, solo e assimétricas proibiram repetir elementos de mesma família, como os tchakevs, ring leaps...
@@airtonpaiva5389 na vdd cada vez mais o código de pontuação tem se mostrado prezar pela execução dos elementos ao invés da dificuldade, tanto que as regras para amplitude, altura, low chest, legs apart, steps, estao bem mais rigorosas.
@@ruylsonsantos2464 Isso é bom, deveria ser sempre assim, execução sob a dificuldade, evitaria medalhistas com quedas e erros grosseiros como vem acontecendo nos últimos tempos.
@@martinmartini na vdd acredito que o código vem evoluindo pra tornar o esporte menos monótono, claro, mas tb pra diminuir as lesões que vem acontecendo ultimamente, já que na atualidade estamos vendo as meninas chegarem no limite da dificuldade, arriscando muito a saúde. Confesso pra vc que amo o Biles II no solo e salto e fiquei louco qdo vi o triple Double esticado da Jade Carey, mas são elementos em que o risco de lesões sérias é muito grande, e a FIG enquanto instituicao responsável pela ginástica teoricamente não deve estimular que as ginastas pratiquem elementos nos quais se arrisquem muito. Acredito que tem sido este o motivo. Vou te dar um exemplo prático: supomos que o triple double layout vá valer K, se a ginasta cair ela perde 1.0 ponto na execução, mas realizou uma dificuldade de 1.1, teoricamente ela teria uma vantagem. Outra ginasta faz um duplo carpado com leve afastamento de pernas, pés flexionados, tronco levemente baixo e um pequeno passo na chegada, só ai já foram 0.4 de desconto em um salto que vale D 🤷🏻♂️ dessa forma seria mais vantajoso fazer um triple double e cair do q executar bem um duplo carpado 🤷🏻♂️
I find it to be ridiculous. Given that they're downgrading all the vaults at the same time, then the only thing we will see is athletes winning the same medals by lower values. That's it.
Sorry this doesn’t quite make sense to me. If to this day the Produnova vault has only been done in competition by a handful of gymnasts why has it been “devalued”? What tougher vault are they making room for? If the purpose is to not promote “dangerous” vaults then they are approaching this all wrong. You can’t have a “technical” component to a COP system when you don’t genuinely honor the concept of technique. Now if they want to discourage gymnasts from performing dangerous moves just to boost the tech value of an overall score, then they should take a more comprehensive approach by allowing the execution component carry more weight, like 2/3 execution, 1/3 technical.
This makes no sense because there’s literally no point to it. Slashing every vault’s D score by 0.4 just means that everyone will score 0.4 lower, and we will mentally adjust to consider a 15 score to be god-tier for an Uber difficult vault, and 14 to be the standard average for a strong DTY. Perhaps FIG just wanted scores to LOOK uniform on a score card (12.000 - 14.500 for each apparatus for top 20 AA) for every routine instead of scores that hit 15.2. Pointless and arbitrary.
It can have a big impact on the AA scores, though. While all apparatuses are being affected by the new COP, it seems like only Vault is being significantly downgraded in the base D values and they're not leaving any room for athletes to build additional difficulty into their vaults to increase the D score. They can work within the new COP to build high D score routines on BB, UB and FX but Vault is going to stagnate as a result. And we certainly aren't going to see any real innovations on Vault since the reward won't be worth the risk.
When has the FIG not been major suckage? It's like they go out of their way to enrage everyone. Simone's double pike will get a 5.6 😜, which is why we can't have nice things.
@@lilbatz The fact that even Simone will stop doing many of her named skills once she's gotten them in the COP shows just how off base the FIG has been. She'll get the honors, but no one will bother trying to follow in her footsteps because the reward isn't worth the risk.
