Thank you for the information on the manufacturer of Pebax and for unpacking the Joubert & Jones 2021 paper, and giving your own personal experience with this range of super shoes. Much appreciated. Cheers, Steve
Ahhhh Barry, now this is indeed a very interesting video!!! For me, as a slow runner, it's about feel, pleasure, joy, ease, muscle fatigue, recovery, etc. rather than about speed!!! With the Alphaflys I certainly "feel" like I can run a little further for longer with a bit less energy... and whether it's "actually" true or not, feeling it makes it true for me!! But of course, they don't feel that way every day, but when I'm feeling good anyway!!! I must say that even the Alphaflys felt flat and unbouncy after 32km in Paris last weekend 😂, BUT another PB!!!!!!😁💪🏻🏃🏻♀💪🏻
Congratulations Bev! PB! Would you believe I watched the last 5k of your race on the tracker...I screen recorded the last bit it if it is any interest I can send it. Wow the Pavé...I meant to mention this in the video , but forgot but Jo Pavey spoke on Eurosport about the benefits of carbon plate shoes for recovery and exactly what you are talking about. She also spoke about sitting back a little and being less on the forefoot when she runs marathons than when she is on track. Anyway she is an inspiration...
Ohhhhhh 😃 yes please!! I’ll send you an email later Barry!!! The last 5km was soooooo frustrating I can’t tell you, some huge bottlenecks where it was impossible to put in that final burst of effort, even reduced to walking at one point!!🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️ In fact much of the second half was playing dodgem’ , trying to squeeze between and around runners , running into people and getting run into, … sooooo energy sapping!!! Next time I will certainly choose a SAS that’s too fast for me!!
It looked incredibly narrow on the TV...Rotterdam looks the opposite, I say that now, but it looks really wide. Knocking a PB out in those conditions is very impressive..Chapeau!
After my PB run in 2022 Houston Marathon in AF1, I also had an incredibly fast recovery. I think AF1 is a very special shoe even for an older, slower, heavier runner like me.
Great video and channel ! Dublin based runner. I use either the alphafly 1 or vaporfly 2 as race shoe of choice. I have a few pairs in rotation for this reason. I ran a marathon last year in 2h 37 in Manchester with the alphafly 1 and found it amazing. A real leg saver with the bounce. Very little difference between both I find for 5k and 10k distance but preference would be vaporfly because of lightness and easier to manoeuvre especially on a short course with turns. I have a 10 mile race coming up on Monday and am planning to wear the vaporfly 3 for the first time. They already feel softer than the version 2. Looking forward to it !!
Great video and detailed review! After running in the Alphafly 2 i feel that they just cruise when you lock in the pace, so for a marathon this can be a good option. Haven't tested the Vapour fly 3, but the V2 i feel they are more aggressive and want you to go fast. Alpha2 are more stable for my shape of foot, where the V2 wobble a bit. In conclusion - Alpha2 for steadiness marthon, half, 10K - V2 for more all out speed all distances
Hi Barry, good luck with your marathon. I listened to a few interviews of the researcher in several podcasts when his study came out. I think he conducted the study in 2020 but it got published much later and he was limited to shoes that were available at the time (and some shoes were in really short supply to purchase in quantity for all athletes) Anyway, I saw an infographic somewhere that has an updated list of shoes. I think not as scientific as the paper because he only tested them on himself (N=1) But the interesting thing was that popped Alphafly 1 had more energy return than some of the other carbon plated shoes in the list. I may not be as fast as the test group but as an older and heavier runner, AF1 has served me well in my PB on Marathon (3:49)
I saw someone who did the N-1 in Toronto...kind of following on from the first study. I am trying to find updated research but it is thin in the ground. I imagine the shoe companies won't fund it so that is a problem...but I will keep testing myself as much as I can...and gathering a marathon full of data on the Vaporfly 3 will be a start...
Interesting video and good luck in Rotterdam. I did my first race in the Vaporfly 3 the other night and a 5K which amusingly isn't a distance Nike supposedly recommend for the shoe (which is 10K to marathon) and it was my best time for 2 years so whilst I like to think it was mostly down to decent fitness at the moment, the shoes clearly did not at least make me slower. I do wonder what they do recommend for a 5K. If it is a Streakfly I beg to differ well at least for this 56 year old current 18:33 runner. My feet are slightly longer than yours (I am UK 13) and Vaporfly 3 comes in about 255g whereas my Alphafly 2 are a whooping 325g so that is largely why I have always tended to prefer the Vaporflys and v1 has been my favourite largely as I feel they fit me best. v3 is rather wide for me but was keen to give them a "proper" test and I do feel they are slightly softer. Whether that is good or bad maybe down to personal preference and TBH so far am not sure. I am however like you and perhaps have "old man's shuffle" as my average cadence in that 5K was 187 and was 183 in a recent "just" sub 3 marathon. I don't heel strike either. So whilst it is interesting that the extra weight in say an Alphafly may not "matter" has the science considered us larger footed runners when the weight differences are far more significant. That all said when I have tested the Alphafly versus the Vaporfly there has been little in it but you can't obviously run a long way in both shoes back to back on same day and whenever I go out in the Alphafly it cruises along OK but say whenever a hill appears or am getting tired I do feel I start to notice the extra weight.
Great stuff Tim and lots of food for thought. After Rotterdam I am planning to do the Jack and Jill in Washington State in July. I am hoping to be at my peak for that, hoping to tune up and give myself a kick in the ass post Rotterdam. Then I am finally going to try for a 5k PB and see if the Streakfly is actually faster over the short distances than the Alphafly 02 or Vaporfly 03. I doubt it but am interested to get out and test...
Great video for us data geeks Barry 😊 In my testing in shorter distances my "fastest' shoes would be those that feel more propulsive.. Vaporfly v1, Puma Fast R and Prime X.. but that changes when I want distance then the Alphafly comes into play.. but the Prime X also seems to work for distance too 🤔 The heel inserts recommended by Bartek have increased the propulsive feel of my Alphafly v1 so I need to do more testing 😁
Cheers! Even I am tired out of three weeks of Vaporflyness so apologies to you and anyone who has suffered all of them...promise a break next week...though I am racing the Jack 2.0 in them over 1km this weekend...for another video in the future...Hoping to do some 5k PB testing of shoes later this year...definitely want to give a 5k PB a shot...and finally get around to a shoe off to pick one...let me know how the A1+inserts work!
@@OldManRunner I ran my best Parkrun in over a year in the Bartek Boosted Alphafly.. 69.7% age grade Vs 70% best. The dynamic of the shoe has been transformed. More testing required tho.. Will do some 400m intervals next week.. tbc 😊
@@lifephorce so glad it's improved your Alpha experience - congrats on the the 5K PB! The inserts were recommended by a couple of podiatrists on an Australian pod called Shoe Geeks on Inside Running Podcast - great great listen. Barry, unlikely we will ever tire of talking about the Nike duo : - )
PS there I did hear of a more recent Joubert study where they tested runners whose abilities lie more in the 10-12 kph "aerobic" range as opposed to the far more speedy 16 kph runners in the paper you mentioned. I recall they found there was still some "help" from super shoes on average but somewhat less than the faster runners and indeed some of the test subjects actually did "better" in "normal" shoes.
Great video Barry. This data driven study is right up my street. I agree that the shoe companies make some bold claims about the performance of the shoes, but will us more "mid-pack" runners get much or any improvement? That being said, I do love whizzing along in my vaporfly 2s, but maybe I'd not like them as much if I dropped the pace to slower than 5 minutes per km?
Vaporfly series would have done better if they were priced at least 30% less than alphafly. I mean with negligible difference in prices, why would someone go for vaporfly (whether its V2 or V3)? Alphafly is the king of super shoes. There's nothing better in the market that provides everything all in one - cushion, bouncy, comfort, fit, stability, design, and colours. I have a semi-flat feet and when i wore vaporfly 2, my feet started paining after a short run. I didn't get that problem with Alphafly 2. If you are already ready to spend so much on shoes, then why not go for the best one.
I have both of them and I find over a marathon distance I can go faster in the Vaporfly 3. I think the Alphafly series works really well for some people but not others. When I look at the finish line of major races the Nike sponsored athletes seem to be in a variety of Alphaflys and Vaporflys. Your point about semi-flat feet is really interesting. The feeling of support in the arch of the Alphafly 02 is unrivalled. I agree with paying as much as you can for the best one, the cost of the shoe is small compared to my other running costs.
Fantastic comparison video review. Best of Lucks in your marathon. Maybe you will get a better PB. Travel safe. Thanks!!! NB: My super-shoe is Metaspeed Sky+ based on your review. Will think more about Nike now. Look forward to your views on new Hoka-Rocket, Mizuno, Adidas super-shoes.
I believe that was pretty accurate in the shoes available at the time (2020/21) . However I also suggest there has been a marked change in the market offerings for 2022/23. Recent race results over Marathon's indicates that while we will still see a sea of ticks , the shoes on the top 3 men and women are much more varied in the last 12 months. Either way enjoy the race. I shall be running in the lower stacked Puma liberate nitro elite 2 (they really need to come up with a cleaver little with something like 'GT' or 'GTI' or just 'Puma' then Elite then the year Puma Elite23 /Vaporfly23 etc) for Manchester.
I love the look of the latest Puma shoes...but always seem to miss the launch dates...and I tried a few times in the past...will keep a look out in Rotterdam to see who is in what...best of luck for Manchester!
The researcher has an updated list of shoes somewhere else. He continued testing the shoes personally after the study was over. Other brands have been catching up. The gap has narrowed in the latest generations of shoes. Even HOKA came out with Rocket X2 in PEBA foam. Brooks (with Hyperion Elite) seems to be stuck in the past though.
Cheers Nikola! Hoka are sponsoring Rotterdam so they will have some of the Rocket X2....will see what they are like...I know they have no relationship to the original
I tried them this morning at the Marathon expo. Very impressive and completely different to the original. I ran at pace on a treadmill which is hard to compare and analyse as the treadmill has a lot of give compared to pavement, but I really liked what I experienced. They did not have any in my size...as I would have been tempted. The ride was very smooth. The upper very comfortable on my heel
I managed to grab them two days ago on 'Good Friday' 25% disscount here in Montenegro. As you said very comfortable with excelent upper, bit on narrow side.🤔 Still didn't run in them due tendonitis but I will wear them next week in Vienna halfmarathon!
Great video! Thanks for presenting the running shoe study in addition to your own testing and impressions. I am a fairly slow runner shooting for a 4 hour first marathon this fall. Given all the hype about carbon plated running shoes, I was wondering if these will do any good at my 9 minute per mile speed. I have resisted carbon plated shoes so far and your video supports my decision. I will run my marathon in non-plated shoes and try to hit my target pace through good training. 😊
Cheers Thomas. Very best of luck with the fall marathon. I think a carbon fibre shoe will help you run faster and either the Metaspeed Sky+ or Vaporfly 3 would be my choice. Whatever you run in I hope you enjoy it.
Training is the 96-99% and shoes are 1-4%. There are some indications that for some slower, non-elite runners the benefits could be a bit more as our gait is less than perfect and carbon plate could direct our energy better. I ran my PB in Marathon, in Alphafly 1 as an older, heavier and slower runner. They helped save the legs for the last 10k of the race and my recovery has been much quicker. I also have my 5k, 10k and HM PB on different carbon plated shoes as well. I think they helped me achieve that last bit of advantage. Personally, I think it is more about the foam, rather than the carbon plate. The foam in these shoes store and return the energy better than the foam used in most other shoes in the market. Carbon Plate is basically there to give stability to these low density foams (PEBAX) That's why adding carbon plates to EVA based shoes (HOKA Rocket X 1, Brooks Hyperion Elite) didn't work as the study showed.
@@TolunayOrkun COULD NOT AGREE MORE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAID. Grateful that you have managed to express everything I wanted to say on this topic so eloquently. Here's to the next great running shoe to come out in the future - in the meantime I'm trying my best to run consistently as many Ks as my body puts up with.
Oh, how interesting the differentiation between bouncy runners (with a lot of vertical oscillation) and runners who oscillate little vertically. I'm one of the seconds. Which shoe would you say would suit me best for a Marathon at a pace of 3'30"/km, the Vaporfly 3 or the Sky v1, or even the Alpha 2? I am a runner with a high stride frequency. Great video.
If I could run at 3'30" I would give serious consideration to the Alphafly 2 or even the 1. When running at pace the footpods help lengthen my stride. I can't run at pace for a marathon. At slower paces I sag back too much in the 1. The increase drop in the 2 helps me push forward a little more, but not enough so I would choose the Sky+ or Vaporfly 3. I watched the Paris marathon last weekend. In the mens and women's races the top runners seemed to be in a mixture of Metaspeed Sky+ and Vaporfly 2's plus a couple of Adidas shoes and I think a Reebok shoe. So lots of fast athletes make different choices. I will try and compare the Sky+ and Vaporfly 3 at some stage but need to run a marathon in the Vaporfly3 first as part of that process. The Alphafly really works for some people and not at all for others. For those for whom it works it is magic. If I was you I would test a pair. If you buy it through Nike you can run and test it and return it if its not for you.
@@OldManRunner What a good answer. Thank you. Adios Pro 3 works for me in long distance, maybe if Alpha 1 or 2 have a similar operation I will try it with them. I find the Metaspeed v1 to be an impressive shoe with a lot of response. The Adios Pro 3 feels less spectacular but when you look at the time it surprises you that this mixture of softness and stiffness is so efficient over long distances. What a pleasure to see you and read you. 👏👏
Have fun in Rotterdam Barry, wish I was in your shoes! You'll smash it! Keep an eye out for an Oz runner Andy Buchanan, 🤞 he'll run an Australian Olympic qualifier.
Cheers Bartek. The race doubles back on itself over a bridge so I might see him racing by. Having fun is my main objective… and seeing how the Vaporfly 3’s go is the bonus!
@@OldManRunner Barry, as I said elsewhere in comments here, we're unlikely to ever tire talking of the Vaporfly vs Alphafly battle >>> looking forward to your impressions post Hamburg. Don't go out too hard, fuel and hydrate.
@@bartekzielinski1645 That’s the plan…start slow to finish fast… will definitely give my impressions of the Vaporfly 3 post race… now to head to Antwerp… for a few days pre race…
@@OldManRunnercorrection on Andy Buchanan, he's running in Hamburg NOT Rotterdam : - ( Never let facts get in the way of a good story... still run Barry run!
On the basis that Eliud Kipchoge broke the World record in them in Berlin in 2022, I am going to say yes. I like the shoe, but haven't run a full marathon in them, only because I like light shoes and the Vaporfly 3 worked better for me in this regard. I would hope the return from the footpods would relieve some pressure on your hamstrings but I cannot be sure. If you don't like the VF3 you could consider the Asics Metaspeed Sky Paris. The Edge Paris has a plate in the same location as the VF3, about 8mm off the ground. The Sky Paris has it about 15mm off the ground, is super light and slightly cheaper than the VF3 and substantially cheaper than the AF2. Best of luck breaking 4:00.
