No, I Don't Agree That Teams Throw Games or the NHL Decides Every Game's Winner 

I hate how people say this, “Oh they lost so they can win it in Florida”. Like wtf? You want to give a team life when the cup is up for grabs? Dumb, so dumb😂

I got 99 problems but a Cup ain’t won

Genius!!! Florida purposely lost so they could ruin their goalies confidence while simultaneously building up the struggling goalies confidence!! Its the same bozos saying this that said Oilers would be swept.

Sadly social media continually lets people show their true intelligence level.

I seriously think public schools need to add a critical thinking class, which engrains the use of logic to work through things before accepting them as truths. People are baffling (no, I’m not just talking about hockey)

It's harder to motivate yourself to close out up 3-0 then it is to motivate you down 0-3

See Shannon is just saying that because he doesnt want us to know hes deciding who is winning the games 😉😂

Panthers actually flew relatives, wives, girlfriends, mamas & papas etc to Edmonton in anticipation of possible SC celebration...and that hassle could've had affected their game because, obviously, they were off. Also, that was their 1st SC elimination game, could also have had an effect. They played badly, lost, now recover and regroup and try again.

Panthers fan here, and I find it ridiculous that someone thinks they threw it on purpose to win at home. I don't mind saying that the Oilers were far better team on that ice last night, they have been solid team this year and to be swept by Panthers in 4-0 was not something that I was expecting. Hell, it might even go to game 6 or 7, but I do believe that the Panthers will win the Cup in the end.

Florida fan here - we were absolutely due to get smoked. My wife bet me $20 at 2-1 we'd come back. I bet her double or nothing they'd hang 6 on us. You could tell Florida went the "well, next game" way at 3-1. Ok people saying they did this to win at home is MADNESS. A SCF sweep is so dominant and special. Such nonsense.

As oiler fan I think Florida winning in game 7 is even cooler so they should throw the next two games.

A) why would Florida purposely throw their starting goalie to the fire, when he’s basically been stealing the series for them? B) Why would Florida feel confident enough to hand Edmonton a free game, when they’ve been outplayed in 2 of the first 3 games (outside of goaltending)? They were lucky to be up 3-0 based on the run of play. C) Why would members of the Panthers organization spend hundreds of thousands on airfare, hotel rooms, and tickets to game 4 for their friends and family members…..Only to purposely lose that game? This notion that the Panthers purposely lost to take it home is ridiculous! They’ve given up a ton of grade A scoring chances to the Oilers this series, and it finally caught up to them last night. It’s as simple as that. They’re lucky they aren’t down 3-1. If it wasn’t for Bobrovsky playing off the charts, they would be.

I think Edmonton figured out how to score against Bob in the 3rd period of game 3, nearly forcing overtime if not for a miraculous save. They took their newly discovered knowledge to game 4 and knocked out Bob. So they've made it a series again, so now it's to Bob to adjust in game 5

What happens if Oilers win game 5? Are Panthers going to lose game 6 on purpose so they can win it at home in game 7?

The Panthers did not lose on purpose and people need to stop gossiping

for a league that struggles to pick decent times to start games, people give them way too much credit. ain’t no way this league is capable of fixing games they are way too incompetent to begin with

People really think Florida would give up a chance to become cup champions especially with what happened last year? Nah. I guess they may have let their guard down a bit but I don't believe Florida sold yesterday.

They didn't purposefully get blown out last night, but they definitely were playing mentally checked out

The look on Florida players' faces when the Oilers racked up the score told everything you need to know. They were immensely disappointed in themselves. You don't look like that if you're throwing a game on purpose nor can you fake it, unless you're a professional actor.

As Curtis Brown said during a Sharks game I paraphrase “these are professional athletes. They hate to lose. Of we were playing ping pong I would try my best to beat you.”

It's like the "oh they just don't want it/they just have no heart/didn't try hard enough" nonsense. Like, everyone out there is doing their damnedest to win. I honestly don't even think Florida slipped a little last night. I think Edmonton just managed to find that little extra that they've been lacking and ran with it. Sometimes it really is just that simple and random lmao

Yeah FLA just had a bad game.

The idiot thing I've seen on Twitter all playoffs is "The NHL wants Florida to win to justify giving Atlanta a team", as if the league returning here hinges somehow on whether Florida succeeds or not. The conspiracy theories some fanbases convince themselves of is hilarious.

Florida needed a loss like this to potentially right the ship. I don’t think they’ve had a lopsided loss like this since game 5 last years final.

The people saying there is some "Grand Plan" within hockey have been playing too much Franchise Mode..

Just like sore losers fans that said the Blackhawks threw games to get Bedard. Tinfoil hats are on too tight.

If Edmonton wins you're definitely going to see comments like in 2009 where the League wanted Crosby to get a Cup but with McDavid

In all avenues of life, never assume malice when incompetence contains a perfectly valid explanation

If you want to see an example of corruption in sports, go look at the Lakers season of 2002. THG hits the nail on the head, you would see game 7s a lot more, especially during a year where the NHL viewership increased so drastically. What you should be looking for is a statistical correlation between betting odds, viewership, the number of penalties (fouls in the case of the NBA), and a series going to game 7. That being said, MAYBE there's some corruption on the part of the NHL but it's likely smaller in scale or unrelated to the actual outcome of games. For what it's worth I'm an economist, and one of my areas of focus is sports.

Well put. The conspiracy that everything is fixed is the most ridiculous thing I hear every day. The comment section in any social media platform is just pure cancer these days.

Agree wholeheartedly, Shannon... and speaking as a fan of the Jets, (who Paul Maurice coached to a sweep of the Oilers in 2021), I know he would never tell his boys in Florida to throw a game. You get it done as quickly as you can... What I think happened, was the Oiler boys needed 3 games to determine how to bury pucks behind Bob.. they started doing that in Game 3 although it wasn't any of the "big guys". But those 3 goals gave them confidence that they could score on him and if they cleaned up their D work, that they could probably win Game 4 vs Panthers. Combine that with happy Panther boys, perhaps enjoying a night out on the town and you get the result you got last night. Panthers tried to play globetrotter hockey with Oilers and it doesn't work, they're not as speedy as McDavid and company... next game, they have to go back to playing that 5 man defensive unit and put Barkov out there against 97 every chance they can and they can end the series. And Bob has to be Bob... he has to shut the door on Oilers. And his D guys have to help him out. They let this series get to 6, it could go either way. I do want McDavid and Oilers to get a cup soon though so I'm rooting for them as a Canadian.

I have worked in professional sports for almost 30 years. I have been a part of three teams that have won championships and one that lost a final. When you can clinch, you clinch. Home or away, you just get it done if you can. Kudos to Edmonton for their effort in game 4. Also, game fixing on a league level is absurd. Love your channel!

I don't think the Panthers threw the game, but when you're up 3-0 in a series, you're not stressed about being down after the second period, either. I say the exact same thing about Game 4 in the NBA Finals. Are the Celtics really worried? No. Like the Panthers you have 4 chances to win one game. They've burned one of them. Not the end of the world.

When people say that teams throw games to win the cup on home ice I point out the fact that the penguins have won 5 stanley cups and of those 5 they clinched them all on the road

When I see someone saying Florida threw the game I tell them it's just as likely that Edmonton threw the first 3 games just to make history with a reverse sweep. lol

Ways to rig games. 1 Don't call penalties. 2. Call penalties. 3. Call minor penalties on majors. 4. Call majors on minors. 5. Call goalie interference. 6. Don't call goalie interference. 7. Too much pushing and shoving, make it 4 on 4. 8. too much pushing and shoving. Make it 5 on 5. I still can't figure out when and why its 5 on 5 or 4 on 4 regardless of the calls. 9. Suspend players. 10. don't suspend players. 11. call invisible calls like when their own teammate high sticks them or they high stick themselves. 12. Keep whistles for lose pucks. 13. Ignore offsides, oh no coachs challenge, sorry. 14. Toronto reviews everything. 15. No call on the ice, stop the game, and watch a reply. Then call a penalty. That one happened a few times this year and i never saw it before. 16. Let guys hurt players to knock them out of the game, and "not see it". 17. Only make calls when a team pushes back. 18. Don't call the extra penalty when on the penalty kill, because 5 on 3 wouldn't be fair. 19. Call every call one game, then call no calls the next game. What's a penalty, not today! 20. Insist the player didn't hit the puck and its icing. 21. Waive off icing for no reason. 22. Call icing before the players even get to the dot. These teams can be very evenly matched. A few bad calls or no calls can change a game even if the power play or penalty kill don't pan out. I have seen these examples all season long and many seasons. Is it a fix? Maybe, but you can only influence a game so much. NBA has been caught. The NFL has been fined and draft picks lost because of it. Coaches have been fired. Owners have been sued. Dolphins are really good at that one. Yes, ownership says you need to lose, here's a bonus. Toronto fans are going to buy tickets if the win a cup or never win again. Those high prices aren't supposed to go to ownership. The high prices go to resale teams. If the team is on the resale they are violating rules and regulations. The teams can only sell the tickets for face value. 1200 on a resale is because someone bought a ticket and then went to sell it. I am sure there are some sales people that violet this, but you have to catch them. But anyways, if someone reads all this, they will just go I am stupid even tough I actually worked with professional sports teams and talked to players, coaches and ownership. What you hear on the air is not what is going on behind the scenes.

So many excuses for even one loss. Desperation is a real thing. This next game for oilers will be the hardest cause if they win they go back to edmonton and florida doesnt want that. Fans act too much like they are the ones on the ice and its their accomplishmemts hence fans saying we won lol

When the cup is up for grabs, there’s no way you’re handing a team a win. Absolutely not.

I don't think Florida threw the game, I think Edmonton played at peak desperation, and Florida did not. I suspect that changes on Tuesday.

I've been saying this same thing for years. 1. There is way too much money to be made, to not force more games to go to game seven. 2. There are way too many mouths to sew shut for a conspiracy operation of this scale, that someone somewhere would absolutely squeal if it were all rigged and predetermined.

Everyone talks about the league being incompetent or at least borderline so, yet somehow they believe that the league can just mastermind finishes, standings, draft lotteries.

I have a line about conspiracies. Never underestimate human incompetence. Grand conspiracies are rare but mistakes happen all the time. Ocams razor is your friend, and the simplest solution is rarely a bunch of people keeping a secret.

I don't think most people do. It is funny to think how ridiculous it would be for Florida to throw to have the cup at home instead.

I jokingly said that to a friend while watching the game but it was just that…a joke. A team is never going to purposely lose a game in the finals just to win the cup at home. It’s obviously preferred to win at home in front of your own fans but if you have a chance to close, you close. It’s that simple, end of story. Only scenario where I see a team maybe throwing some games would be to move up in the draft. Even then, no guarantee of getting that coveted #1 pick. Some folks will simply believe whatever story their heads will muster up.

There is the possibility that Florida didn't play well because in the back of their heads, the desire to win the cup at home allowed them to play so poorly. However it certainly wasn't intentional.

Living life in denial of what happens slows down the process of self discovery! 4th win is always the hardest

Me too - if Hockey was selling the wins and losses for some financial reason, I wouldn't watch. No way.

Its kinda sad that this has to be said

Need to get a magnet for ‘debunking / identifying conspiracy theories’

People who believe in conspiracies like these don't know how actual conspiracies work. You can't hide things with this many people involved.

They're saying the same thing about the Boston Celtics! It's ridiculous! They lost by over 30 points! Dallas played better defense and finally got help from the role players. It's the dumbest thing ever

I doubt a team that planned to lose the game would bring their families to the game in case the Panthers won the Stanley Cup. Losing 8-1 in front of your families is kind of embarrassing though.

This doesn't feel like just a case of Edmonton found the extra gear and Florida took it for granted. You don't win 8-1 in situations like that. To me, I think it showed that those 3 Florida wins were much closer than they look, and Edmonton is a much better team than being down 3-0 looks.

down here we use the NHL as an example of the best parity, going into most any playoffs it's hard to know who will win ahead of time, from 83-2012 there were 13 teams who won an NBA championship and most of those years you would know who is going to win the next year, if you had to bet on the Superbowl which two teams you taking-same as last year? Angel Hernandez and the ability to move a strike zone? clearly Canada misses the NBA to be reminded how sketchy and staged a sport is, the NHL is the least of the major 4

Elliotte Friedman made a good point this morning (and on the previous 32 Thoughts podcast) about how, when you're in Florida's situation as of Thursday night, the team starts thinking about flying in the players' families and girlfriends so they can be there when they clinch the Cup, and although Florida seems to have handled it very professionally, compartmentalizing it as much as possible, it is very hard to keep it from distracting the players to some extent. Plus, it's only natural that it would easier for Edmonton to dial in, given that they're really down to the end of it at that point. Kudos to them for responding appropriately.

How can you watch hockey and all the crazy wacky things that happen and think it was rigged? This game is pure chaos, you could never ever orchestrate it or script it.

Conspiracy theories are a comforting refuge for people who find rational thinking to be burdensome when it doesn't conform to their (team based) biases.

I don’t believe that the Cats intentionally lost the game and didn’t try. However I DO believe that they lost focus a bit and the Oilers were razor sharp and every bounce went their way. The margin of victory amongst these guys is so thin that’s all it takes. Add to that I believe the Cats most likely stopped playing as hard after 4-1, just figuring they would get them next game, allowing the Oilers to run up the score. Not much, they are still professionals and still care, but enough that it mattered. It probably wasn’t even a conscious decision just human nature.

I dont think anybody loses 8-1 on purpose lol

Over a decade ago, I was sitting in the stands of the Bell Centre in Montreal waiting for the start of the Jets v Canadiens game and I had a conversation with a noticably-intoxicated young man. He insisted that the games were rigged and that the NHL "had a plan". I listened to all of his reasons why he believed the games were rigged and - to be honest - none of them really made sense if you thought about them for more than 5 seconds. After he finished presenting his "case" for why he thought the games were rigged, I replied that I disagreed for one reason and one reason only: the puck bounces. Brownian motion is a thing. I told him that when the puck bounces, you'll never know how it will bounce, how many times it will bounce, where it will bounce and what the repurcussions of that bounce might be. We've all seen the replays of a shot going wide of the net (no chance for a "shot-on-goal" to occur) but instead the puck hits the legs, sticks, butts or backs of 2, 3, 4 or even 5 players before ending up in the back of the net. All while the goalie is flailing like crazy and contorting like hell to react to the puck's re-direct, all while the defensemen is wondering why HE was the last person it bounced off of to score an own-goal in his last ever NHL game in front of 100 family and friends in attendance and all while the coach on the bench is convincing himself that the universe hates him because of that one time he had the vanilla ice-cream when he could have had chocolate. Hell...I'm sure Patrik Stefan's most famous moment of missing an open net on a breakaway wouldn't have happened if...you guessed it...the puck didn't bounce unpredictably. Shit happens, and because of that you can't "rig" a hockey game. It's simply impossible, given the incalculable number of variables happening either at the same time of the bounce event, or just before it or just after it. Predicting randomness in a high-speed game such as ice hockey is a fruitless and as much of a waste of time as trying to solve the 3-body problem. You can't. And to think that you can not only predict it but that you can CONTROL it...well...that's silliness on par with the most silly of conspiracy theories and maybe those people should have others tie their shoes for them. BTW...the intoxicated young gentlemen I was speaking to had no response to my comment about the puck bouncing. He simply "shrugged" and didn't bother with a counter-argument. And the older, silver-haired gentlemen and his wife sitting in the row in front of me both turned, smiled and gave me a "thumbs up" when I mentioned that the puck bounced.

I have to agree with what he says, I don't think the teams or the NHL throw games or anything of the sort. Now do I question the refs on side betting and shit? just like in the NBA and MLB and NFL...yes, yes I do. ALSO the leafs are owned my Rogers Co. They also own the Raptors and the Blue jays, and are the largest commutation provider in Canada. THEY WOULD NOT be screaming about not making the playoffs with the leafs they make that in a week.

Hard to lose 8-1 on purpose.

The fact that a video has to be made about this is just sad to me.

I'm a Vegas fan, and last year I was perfectly fine with them winning the Cup in Florida. Being at the Fortress to see them win in person was a knight to remember, but still, I'd have taken the Cup no matter where they won it.

Anyone who say that never played the game.

Great point about Toronto Shannon. I know there are a myriad of fans that hate Toronto, but lets face it if the NHL wanted to make sure money was pouring in they'd make sure Toronto was in the final every year. It's just a fact based on the large fan base Toronto has.

Before you dismiss Florida throwing that game, I heard the Bahama Breeze at the mall across the street from their building was offering half price apps after the Panthers win the cup so they said “hey let’s fly our families out to Edmonton to watch us get spanked and then we’ll get some half price coconut shrimp after game 5…no I know they close at 11, but the assistant manager said he’d keep it open for us…yeah. Totally worth it. Bob, I’m sorry, you need to give up 5 goals in 2 periods and get your confidence shaken, sorry. It’s worth it though. Yeah, totally.”

IMO it really depends on your definition of "throwing a game". Cause yeah, 100% there are games that a team doesn't care if they lose and don't put in their best effort as a result, anyone that's ever played a sport at any meaningful level knows that... But also no, they don't get together in the locker room before puck drop and say "Let's go out there and lose tonight".

The fact that these things are ever discussed about NHL as often as it does is a very bad thing and speaks volumes of the leagues management.

1:34 I'd argue there's all sorts of things to see here because even before the playoff started, there are people left right and center claiming the "shameful" flyers threw the game and handed a win to the equally "despicable" Caps so that we can be in the playoff.

Shannon, you can't reason with fools. They will come up with any excuse to defend their team, rather then come to terms that the team is not good enough. As a sane Leaf fan I never defend or excuse there subpar sometime horrid play.

Bad reffing plays no favorites

I find it funny that last Monday Oilers fans were saying how rigged the series was and now after winning 1 game it's like WE CAN DO THIS! - but, I thought it was rigged?

The internet is gonna internet. It's one of the established constants of the universe.

The only thing I can say to play Devil's advocate is you would never want 2 Canadian teams in the Stanley Cup final because then you most likely lose a large portion of your US viewership which would be a nightmare scenario for TV ratings. Why am I not surprised that the last time this happened was all the way back in 1989.

It’s the same thing with other conspiracy theories. A lot of people just can’t accept that so many of the things that happen in every facet of life are due to a multitude of factors and generally not things that can be changed drastically by one person. People are terrified of uncertainty. There has to be a bad guy.

One thing that needs to be remembered that the owners also compete against each others. NHL do not make money, the owners do. Usually if the owner has a good team they make more money and if they bad team they make less.

Anyone who would say something so unbelievably ludicrous has no understanding of the basic tenants of competition... True athletes play to win

Sitting in a restaurant on Father's Day with my wife and daughter listening to a couple of doofuses arguing about how Game 4 was fixed. I this world of "alternative facts" or "fake news" I guess we shouldn't be surprised. Don't feed the trolls, I guess. Cheers from the BC Peace country!

It feels like these playoffs have been going on forever.

The irony of this video being uploaded (that I agree with) and RU-vid algorithm actually suggested me "NASCAR and the Dam of Legitimacy" (which is also a good video).

It's ridiculous to believe refs or players are fixing the games. There's only one person who's deciding the outcome of all the games. ...you guessed it. Frank Stallone.

I despise this extra day of between location changes, no momentum, no flow!

I don’t know a panther fan that is truly worried. We are joking about wanting to win it at home. However it is our coping mechanism about what happened last night.

it's scary to hear the things people are willing to tell themselves just to avoid acknowledging the simple fact that their team wasn't good enough, and/or that another team they hate is playing well. what a sore loser mentality

Yeah, the NBA teams absolutely do this. I’m not sure about hockey. I think it’s harder with the game that doesn’t have as much scoring and back-and-forth.

Its something I hate whenever this gets brought up with the NFL. Players, in football especially, are putting their bodies on the line with a chance to get injured. You also want to play well to get that next contact. And the fact that very rarely is a player so talented they can play at a top level and not have an extreme drive to win built into their personality. The only kind of rigging possible, realistically, is the refs and even that is pretty much out of reasonable bounds given how much replay has been added to many sports. At this point you either believe its a fair sport or you shouldn't watch. Not that I don't despise all the gambling ads.

Thank you for saying this so clearly. Your reasonable take on this is refreshing.

How can people say nhl games are rigged? Yeah totally. They have coaches talking to them with a mic in the players helmets about what play to make and when😂 the game is so fast that if that was happening the puck would be so far ahead when the coach tells the player to make that play

This is a great and informative video, the narrative that teams wouldn't try in order to win the cup at home was really prolonged when Tampa Bay Mayor Jane Castor said on the news "We want you guys to lose game 4 so that you can win it in Tampa Bay" this was in 2021 when they played Montreal in the final.

Fan tribalism has eradicated the understanding of ebbs and flows, momentum swings, and adjustments teams play with.

I have sworn off Hockey Twitter entirely. Completely sworn it off. Either it's copium, or trolling, or the crisis of mental health all throughout North America is much, much worse than we suspect. Last season, there was no shortage of Oilers fans (apparently) convinced after each game that they lost to the Kings that the league had it in for McDavid, even though a cursory look through the NHL social media feeds that year would show that they barely missed a chance to pump it up whenever he had a big game or hit a scoring milestone. And that's just a tiny part of the madness. And I mean madness literally.

If you follow curling and realize ice control is from physical machinery, you'd realize the ice itself can be tilted to make shots run through the house, or come up short...hmmm!

The officiating has not been high enough quality in the NHL for years. Improvements have only come recewntly with rules for reviewing certain plays --- carried out in a faraway black box in Toronto --- but not in the quality of on-ice officiating. So the chance to get a call right has increased somewhat....but only at the cost of sucking the air out of the building with long delays. And THAT problem (a lower fan entertainment experience) is now being addressed by making betting on the games totally legit...even promoted !! Effing ridiculous.

What happened is the penalty against nurse was not a 5 min major and ejection. Then the short handed goal happened and the panthers were like ok we will just go back home

2010 Dallas vs Detroit. 7-1 Detroit - game 4. Dallas won in 5. These blow outs happen sometime.

I find a lot of the comments you can get on videos can be a bit over the top. If someone actually believes a team would throw a game to win at home, they are crazy. As for the “rigging the games” it’s beyond foolish. There would have to be, like you said, hundreds of people in on it and we all know people like to talk. I thoroughly enjoy your content and how you deal with negative comments is something I need to work on as well. I get a lot of wild ones. You do great work Shannon, thanks for all the content.

I’m an Islanders fan, I enjoyed the ride but I never for one second thought they were going to win the cup because they just aren’t that good of a team. I don’t blame the refs. The NHL would go under if it was fixed, and nobody can keep their mouth shut in this world. If it was fixed, we would know about it already. Same with NBA, MLB, NFL … the CFL that might be fixed LOL just kidding

I think we'll see in game 5. There's far less motivation to win in 4 on the road. Not a conspiracy, not a deliberate plan, but a subconscious awareness of their situation.

My biggest beef NHL is that they need to improve the officiating and call penalties evenly through every game and every series. No more putting their whistles away in the third period.