NO MAGNETS??? Deep Dive on the Newbeedrone Smoov V2 

Man, this explanation on how magnets are made was super cool! I love your channel!

Great details. One possible justification of the smoothness claim is reduced cogging. Cogging contributes to the noise of the motor, so dba figures would be interesting. With the bonded magnet, there is an opportunity to create a sinusoidal change in magnetic field strength and i believe this can be exploited to reduce the cogging.

I especially enjoyed the little rant at the end, because so often people avoid giving opinions because everybody should be encouraged to give their own opinion as if we are all equal in the conversation (we aren't). But I push back against this idea. Some people are experts and I want those experts to give opinions because I will learn from them. We need more rants from experts. Cause then we will learn what things are important or not. Otherwise people will be wanting smooth magnets cause some company produced them instead of because they are good or bad. So keep that going please!

being old af and having flown balsa nitro planes in the 90's its awesome to see new tech like this, very exciting

I was able to follow this all the way and understand. Chris thank you for being in this hobby 🙏

i just had to comment to say that after watching your previous motor testing videos, i decided to grab a set of the WASP motors. holy wow, they are NO joke. best motors i'll ever own. never would have gotten them without seeing your testing results, so thanks a ton!

Rant at the end was brilliant! Thanks again Chris!

Interesting video showing the difference in rpm, thrust, and explaining how and why the difference between the two magnet types. You did an excellent job talking about the motor types.

I love the dive into how the magnets are made. Professor Rosser. Cheers

I love everything about your videos. Looking forward to the next one!

Excellent vid! Well done Chris! Thanks for this

That was the most polite rant I have ever heard.

Unbelievable work my man!! Cheers!

Fascinating stuff Chris! Thanks

This was absolutely priceless. Thank you wholeheartedly.

The best ideea ever on how neodymium magnets are made Thumbs Up for that

Great video! Thank you for doing this!

WOW! Bloody excellent video mate! That was concise and detailed. For guys like me this was gold. I'm getting pretty tired of you tubers googling a subject and trying to explain something they actually have no idea about.

I had the feeling that I was watching a Minecraft Gregtech tutorial when the process explanation started, lol. Thank you very much, it was super interesting!

Wow! Thanks to your video now I will make a more informed purchased. ❤

Yeehaw!! I seen a couple science channels cover these "printed" style magnets. Really cool that they're incorporating them into New Motors. On a side note, newbeedrone make some of the best 702 Motors I've flown.

i love your videos i like to learn new things and you are good at explaining things thanks for the how magnets are made info

Brilliant explanations.

Thanks for an informative but understandable vid bro thanks for the diagrams

thanks for the review Chris, we will taking the feedback and work with our factory to make it better.

I get it on the "smoothness" issue. This matters for inexperienced drone pilots. If it doesn't respond to mistakes as quickly, it certainly seems much smoother.

As usual perfect lecture about FPV science ;-) This is who must say "And you gonna learn something today" ;-)

That's really one hell of a video

Wow the magnet manufacturing process is interesting.

Fascinating information.

Thank you Eng. Chris Rosser , I really enjoyed all info you have presented ... Are you also specialist in stepper motors and DC brushless motors used in industry ?

Great video

Very informative.

I just (sort of, cuz you never really do) finished my first full, no1 set it up or made a video of these parts, build. And I trust your word on testing so much that I instantly just looked at what you said about the best motors and bam I have wasp majors from Pyrodrone in the cart and bought without question. The way you walk through everything makes all the difference.

great video.

I'm slightly confused though, the bonded magnet is alligned while its curing? or when its first mixed? great video! great explanations, and well edited too, will defnitely check out your other vids

Well said (and tested) 🤘

thanks for the info

What I'd be interested in is the cogging of the motors and how the EMF looks on a scope if you just drive the motor with a drill. I would expect the molded magnet to have a much smoother and better distributed field.

Amazing video as always! One small remark, 6:45 we used to say "Centigrade" in the past but now it's considered deprecated. Proper way to say is degrees Celsius.

I would love to see temperature tests of motors. I'm sure different motors can disipate different amount of heat and therefore we can push them a little harder

Well the title caught me with the No Magnets? Then proceeded to explain about the magnets used and best part how they are made.

Thank u for this info. I am curious about the any noise difference comparison

The slot inside the stator isn't for holding glue, it is for alignment on the auto winding machine

The "smooth" they are talking about is TORQUE smoothness. Torque "unsmoothness" comes from magnetic cogging, as the magnets move closer & farther away from the iron slots in the stator. Weaker magnets DO reduce cogging torque by the SQUARE of the reduction (& as you say, reduces motor efficiency by the same factor). Low cogging torque is important for motors that operate at low RPMs or those that cross through zero RPM (such as in helicopter tail rotor motors). There is a way to reduce cogging torque with less affect on motor efficiency: SKEW THE STATOR STACK. This is routinely done on other motor designs, especially where noise is a consideration, but I have yet to see it done on RC aircraft motors. I wanted to use an aircraft motor as a generator in a turbogenerator for an 1/8th scale steam engine (to make power to run the lights, as was done in the prototype.) The problem is that the cogging torque of the aircraft motor is so high that the turbine can't start it without using 10 times the normal steam flow. This is bad enough, but made worse by the poor performance of turbines when scaled down. For a few watts of electrical output, the turbine ended up consuming more steam than required to move a 600lb engine & its train! What's odd is that the smaller the aircraft motor is, the larger the cogging torque it has.

The MT should be mT (milli vs Mega). Thanks for sharing.

The metal the stator is made from makes a difference in efficiency. The high end racing motors used to use cobalt in the stator plates. Its much more expensive though.

Very nice. Another factor not covered is amps per pound of thrust. This determines your flight time. A lower magnetic field motor will give more kv's but the number of amps it is pulling is proportionally higher, maybe "more proportionally" than what is practical! Just how big a battery can you carry around!

I wonder if there will be more experiments in this magnet configuration. Like 4 quadrant bell or mixed config or something like that. Very interesting though.

Nice work. Is there a weight delta between the two bell designs? - Also a noise test would be educational. Certainly the quad noise will be dominated by the prop. Noise of the pure motor should tell whether there is a bit of truth into the smooth claim.

Fantastic testing and explanation, Chris! Thanks a bunch!!! 😃 I've read about a discovery the other day, that has the potential to change our motors in the future. It's a long story, but they've found a different mix of iron and nickel, almost 50% of each (if I'm remembering it correctly), in a meteorite that could be used to create strong magnets like what we use today. And now they finally replicated it on a lab. So... Who knows. Let's see what happens. 😊 Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

Great review Chris. Very well explained. Curious how did the weight of the two motor bells compare? (seeing 33g vs. 33.6g for motor with wire in specs) Would expect weight to have some effect on angular momentum if significantly different, but this doesn't appear to be the case. Torque from the stronger individual magnets does seem to offer an advantage in many aspects. Agree with your rant, marketing around smoothness, appears to be just that ... marketing. Raw performance is what matters ... high quality elements that are assembled into a well balanced motor design. One thing that would have been interesting to see is a plot of the magnetic field (mT) for each bell. If you could mound the probe and then rotate the bell with a servo (over 180º), it wold be possible to see how the magnetic field change polarity. ie: is it a nice square wave pattern, or a plot with rounded corners? Realize would be time consuming unless had a fixture to help automate data collection. It could also show how wide that magnetic field is, as may not be the full width of a single magnet. (?) An alternative method would be to vacuum seal the motor bells in plastic (freezer bag style), and then use metal filings to show the magnetic fields.

What is the test stand that you use? Would like to know more about the torque test? Where can i read about it?

This is very interesting. The main problems I had with motors were the magnets detaching. These might be more robust. Neat!!

Thank you

Thanks!!

For science 🎉❤😊

Use a solder iron not a heat gun on the thread locked bolt, love these reviews would love to see larger like 2808 size.

Is the neo magnet a N52 or N48? I know N52 is most common for maximum torque (power) but people like ethix use N48 on some motors for smoother motors\less noise along with a slightly larger gap to stator, how would the ring compare to a N48?

I noticed that the bonded magnet appears thinner than the sintered magnet. Might this have contributed to the lesser field strength?

I believe the "sharp edge" would be for cooling when air is crammed through it by the core of the propeller.

There may be 5% less "magnet" per magnet but the segmented magnet has _gaps_ so in total, the single magnet may have more magnet in it?

will holding a soddering iron against the screw head loosen the Loctite? Thanks.

Would you consider doing tests like this for the micro motors we use in whoops? 0702, 0802, 1002 and 1102s are all available in all sorts of flavors, but we have no empirical data on what motors are good or inefficient. I am looking to make a small thrust stand to test some of the motors I have but I don't know i could produce the same detailed results as you have.

Is there a cost advantage to the bonded magnet motor?

Since the magnetic field strength decreased the rpm of the motor should be increased right ? Resulting drop in torque. Beacuse the FPV motor focuse on rpm reather then tourqe that won't be problem

the _peak_ is higher, but that is not enough to conclude it is better. The shape of the curve is also important.

Wonderful practical confirmation that electric motor's torque constant (N*m/amp) is inverse of motor's Kv.

I would think you would want to test it with the stator swapped both ways.

We have been told that heat is the magnets enemy. Now we hear something different ....😀

Maybe it is SMOOV but is it JUCEE? 😆 Thanks for bringing science and facts to the feels-fight! 2.5mm flat head screw though, yikes, the 3mm can be tough enough to get out.

I have these on eight quads and all run smoothly and give me a lot of flight time, whether 4s or 6s.

The argument that they are smooth falls flat when something magnetic gets into the motor, the gaps give it somewhere to go, out of the path of movement. Smooth surface with nowhere to go becomes a sander belt. Maybe they should look at a 1950's motor engineers handbook where those gaps are explained. The argument back then was minimal gap size as well, but since they explained the science pretty well, that trend was abandoned.

Any chance the reason there is no o-ring is because those are magnets at the top there and will resist the motor in a similar way an oring would?

Seems pretty consistent with the NBD product line in general.

How well was the motors balanced?

The o-ring isn't always a good thing from the standpoint of proper bearing loading. You don't want your bearings in compression. If you are worried about bearings in a crash, I just think you have more prominent sources of bearing failure from not being properly loaded in the first place. I would be more worried about over-tightening bell screws when the tolerance stack-up isn't quite perfect, which could cause the inner race of the top bearing to be compressed down and the bottom bearing to be compressed up without a properly toleranced bearing spacer between them. That being said crashing is a quick dynamic event while improper bearing loading is a longer timescale fatigue question. I understand this is a point of controversy when it is an argument about what is likely to fail first and to what degree failure occurs when the event happens. It is a bit of the "what-if game." The o-ring wouldn't have the advantaged effect without improper loading of the bearing if a bearing spacer was added to the design.

I think the sharp edge might actually be a sort of bumper... deforming where it's thin and not affecting the more important structure beneath. little chunks taken out... but no real damage... but it's extra weight right?

Clever design, however durability maybe an issue, I can see the one-piece magnet cracking after a hard crash? Separated magnets have a gap and are less likely to break.

Is there a place where we can access to all the test results? I'm trying to decide on a 4s motor and it's very difficult to find good tests as yours. A complete chart of your digital latency tests will be very useful as well.

Enjoyed! But I didn't see motor weight. Couldn't a motor use extra turns, bigger/heavier magnets etc. to win this competition?

I think smoothness discussion could be like low torque on flatter motors discussion ( with equal volume of the stator ) Science mode off I think there is truth in each one, there are so much variables in builds that can introduce much more in the equation and you could find a less strong straight magnet ( instead of curved ) that got more “rounded” or “manageable” response …my2cents

Could smooth mean it has less vibration?

I support you brother

What if the bell and shaft is made of carbon fiber or kevlar or air grade aluminum? Weight reduction on all the moving parts would improve the spin all around, plus increase the response with less resistance. It should use less current in the end. Kinda like changing the fly wheel on a car.

So I'm wondering if you could magnetize the ring in a twisted fashion similar to Kabab's split motor video. Also wondering if it could be magnetized in a halbauch array? Twisted halbauch?

I think the smooth makes sense in the way manufacturers want to use it. Almost like slower rates to achieve a smoother looking flight. Higher rates without proper control will seem more jerky. The high response might give you the exact flight results for a good pilot, but the slower response will make a new pilot seem smoother. I noticed that when I wanted I got video of my flying chasing trucks just how much I’m moving the sticks, slower response could could be damping the jerks slower to be perceived less.

I did not see the NBD flow motors on your motor data list on your site.

I noticed that you didn't weigh them. What if the bell of the ring magnet version is half of its sintered-magnet counterpart? One of the important factors in these drones/planes is overall weight-to-thrust.

I would expect a less-torquey motor to drain the battery faster too, as the controller will have to work harder - resulting in reduced flight times.

Was it possible when you put the probe, it was in between 2 magnets which gave you 430mt?

Nice 🎉 I might have to use these new motors on my flying baseball bat build. (Videos on my channel)

Whats the weight of the smoov tho

Nice

i had a discussion about such smoth motors below. what do you think? 1: using smoth motors is ok to avoid vibrations, twitchyness or something like that? 2: using the given things in betaflight and Pidtoolbox to make it smooth, if this is the goal.

Surprised they even made the bonded magnet idea work properly...

Doesn't the polymer itself and the reduced surface area reduce cooling? I'm no expert, but I got the impression excessive heat is't great for magnets in general, neither for polymers. Also, energy used that isn't turned into work is turned into heat, if the cooling is suboptimal it wouldn't be great to also have suboptimal efficiency.

A ring magnet with 14 flux paths. I find it amazing. I guess the next step will be 3D Printing Ring magnets. Rapidia would probably be the company that could make it happen.

Maybe the purpose for the O ring is so the dust doesnt get into the bearings

Sorry, how is 1100 degrees not way above the Curie temperature for these things? Or why is compactification done in a magnetic field again?