NO MORE CODEX DEATHWATCH? Talking 40K Rumours! 

From the sound of Valrak's voice, he's successfully crossed the rubicon. Congratulations on finally becoming Primaris, Chapter Master. o7

Valarak now sounds like a proper space marine 😂

I started deathwatch back in 8th and I spent alot of time customizing each model to feel unique. But when GW made almost every squad I own illegal to field at the start of 10th, it took all the wind out of my sails. I just sold my army to one of my mates, so it's not my problem anymore.

I am 100% against my DW being folded. We wanted MORE fluff, and this almost guarantees less. Not all of us are beardy, flavour of the dataslate players.. so this sucks. I was hoping for more Artemis fluff, and just a modicum of thought put into the rules.. but alas here we are. I've had Deathwatch since I played the TTRPG back in 4th, and made a Pedro Kantor Sternguard as troops "Deathwatch" force (bought a lot of the shoulder bits from the old command squad to make my own..and then eventually the upgrade kit)... and then they gave me them for reals, and I was in love... I have like 10k pts in various DW/Marine things, and about 100 DW Vets of various types... So this is devastating to me.

Theres a part of me thats all for deathwatch being rolled into an agents codex because they dont really have models outside of a few kits. There's the other part of me thats angry that they are being folded in because the only reason Deathwatch isn't seeing anything is because GW refuses to do anything for them. If GW doesn't roll Grey Knights in, I'd feel really bad for Deathwatch because they are just getting shafted.

The Deathwatch have always been the redheaded stepchild of the three Chambers Militant. The Battle Sisters and the Grey Kngihts had their own unique miniatures, meanwhile the Deathwatch for the most part made due with generic Space Marine kits.

I feel bad for those who collected Deathwatch in the last 2 editions as it might mean losing a lot of Primaris units they gained from being part of Space Marines.

This is a bit of a shame. Deathwatch are such a cool army. I hope they them justice.

"My watch has ended" Time to go looking for another Army to play.

I spend a shit load of money and time painting 11,000 points of Deathwatch. I'm pissed that the army is gone. They deserve better.

If deathwatch are being folded then grey knights should aswell...feels unfair

What sucks here is that, given the lack of support for Primaris Kill Teams, I expect them to reduce the units to Vets and Watch Captains…. They haven’t let Deathwatch leaders attach to non-kill team units so this could mean we’re losing access to other space marines units. How they play this out could be a dealbreaker for many in the Deathwatch community, myself included.

I'm one of two Deathwatch players in my entire province. I love them to bits, both in their aesthetic and lore. I'm cautiously optimistic about this change, if it is true. I hope GW makes them interesting to play as within Agents, if nothing else.

I still haven't finished my Leviathan box after a year now just because I'm waiting to know what's happening with Deathwatch. The biggest problem is that they're the most expensive space marine chapter to put together, with their mixed specialist kill teams. You have to buy multiple boxes just to create a single unit. That's something most people just aren't willing to invest in when the future of the faction is so uncertain.

I'm so glad I spent all of the time converting a FULL deathwatch army. Included veterans, promaris, and quite a few tanks...

Always loved Deathwatch, my favourite loyalists for ages. Might start a small force if they’re getting rolled into Agents of the Imperium. I’ve always felt them played as a full Astartes army being slightly off, since I picture them as smaller units of operatives put together for a certain task next to some Inquisitor, a magos xenobiologis, assassin and/or rogue trader etc. If you want like 4000 points of primaris, there’s nothing saying you can’t just run them as normal Astartes. Two different armies, same chapter. I think it makes sense,

Honestly without adding Deathwatch to the Agents, neither one of them would’ve had a full range. I have two veteran squads and one Spectrus, and I’m all for more narrative driven army!

Rolling Daemons and god specific legion into one is great idea. This is how should invading Chaos army looks like, traitors/mutants/cultists backed up by marines and daemons.

Was planning on having a quiet bday, then Valrak drops this, confirming what I've been speculating since last year 😉 I've been picking up a lot of Navy, etc, in anticipation, to go with the DW (potentially) - just hope they don't F-up the detachment rules/selections/abilities, like they did with Brood Brothers. Still... knowing Valrak's voice is sore from wailing and mourning in empathy, at the gravity of the situation for DW players, means a lot 🫡. Thankyou Valrak.

I'm going to wait to see how this lands. It doesn't sound like anything is being removed and the current rules around the KT's are missing new units introduced in 10th like the rocket, jump assult and flamer marines. It could be a huge boon to Deathwatch letting us keep what we've got and letting people expand into inquisitor stuff.... or we're just being taken out back and shoot. I'd personally be pissed since those data cards released at the start that are still up for sale last I checked would be pointless.

I got into the game at the tail-end of 9th edition. I learned Blood Angels, and then 10th started up. As of now, I've only been playing for a little over a year. All that to say,I love 10th.

As a deathwatch player I’m very torn with what’s happening. I guess we will have to see what’s in the book before passing judgement, hopefully they will still have a meaningful roll

I would have thought if they were going to do linked armies you would do the three (main) arms of the Inquisition. Like the way Drukhari have specialist detachments for their disperate army forms, you would get Hereticus allying with Sisters, Mallius allying with Grey Knights and Xenos allying in with the DeathWatch. But there is no way they would (or can now) fold in the Sisters as they are both too big (and politically important) and already have a codex release.

It would be desaster if daemons won't get their own codex. They have such a cool gameplay and model range. And it feels really good to place undivided force of ruinous powers on the table

I definitely understand why they would be doing something like this. Grouping things together saves resources and is a bit cheaper for them to produce. Still though, kinda boring that they are doing it. The Deathwatch not having its own codex is just another expression of how generic things are getting. Thankfully I have the older edition Deathwatch codexes. They are gems of art and lore. That being said, its interesting that the Deathwatch have their own info section in the 10th edition codex but their flyer is not featured in it.

Might as well put Grey Knights in Agents of the Imperium as well

I don't really have any opinions on Deathwatch because I don't really play Space Marines, but I'm having fun with 10th edition. I play Crusade, so having my Skitarii force fight a bunch of dudes in an ongoing narrative, leveling them up, expanding their army was a really fun experience!

Agents of the imperium with Deathwatch kill teams are going to be so cool. I like this change.

I like the idea of deathwatch being in the agents book, and likewise for god specific chaos stuff. I still hope they allow players to use deathwatch and chaos demons as thier own army to allow collectors a chance to adjust to the codex beng dropped entirely. I think belakor would go well in a dark mech/ traitor codex with Vashtorr if they don't want to place him in CSM.

As a Sororitas player, I'm excited to potentially have another army I can play with very little investment. I dont expect characters to be usable, and maybe things like the Exorcist. But I fully expect to be able to use at least most the old Witch Hunters era stuff in an Ordo Hereticus detachment. Add a couple inquisitors and retinues (super fun to convert so an extra bonus there), plus an assassin or two and maybe one or two units like Arbetes and Imperial Navy and boom - another army. And as an added bonus many Imperial Agents units already are also made for Kill Team. I can see if making me a *very* happy gamer over the next few years. Oh and thinking about it, having Daemons and CSM combined and sharing detachment rules would certainly get me more excited for them as armies.

I’m actually so excited for this codex, nothing will bring me more joy than purging the mutant with a mixed army of so many cool models

As long as the deathwatch get there dues, I think this could be great, but I’m not holding my breath.

Raspy Rak

From one guy under the weather to another, I hope you feel better. Summer sickness sucks!

I'm actually pretty stoked that they'll get roled into Agents of the Imperium. Hopefully it'll give them a different list instead of them being just another space marine chapter.

The end of the demons codex is a bad idea. It represents demonic incursions which can be a mix of followrs from different gods. Chaos is more than just chaos spacemarines. We have cults, traitor guard, dark mechanicum, demons..and honestly we even need alien chaos followers too.

Nooo as if!? I have 3000 points of DW and I loved that they had their own codexes. They didn't need integrating into other factions, they needed expanding with more models... FFS...

By all rights, this may be an upgrade to Deathwatch. It's the exact same issue we had with Harlequinns; there are just too many factions doing just slightly different things. Its probably a pain in the ass balancing these super skewed factions, and your army was really just 1-3 datasheets. This may give you more support to make a Deathwatch focused army mixed with other Imperial forces. Grey Knights and Custodes should have been merged into this rumored Agents of the Imperium codex if you ask me. DA, SW, and BA and an 8 detachment deep codex that (that the other codexes can still somehow use) is more than enough stand-alone marine factions for the Imperium.

Deathwatch into AoI makes sense as long as there are rules (and it sounds like there will be) for Ordo specific armies. One thing I hope comes with rolling DW into AoI is creating access to a motorpool for the Inquisition. Something that allows your Inquisitor to bring the vehicle they want regardless of who they are rolling with. Something like making the Black Star, Razorback, and Rhino options no matter who the Inquisitor deploys alongside.

Be'lakor totally makes sense in Chaos Space Marines, he's in Slaves to Darkness in AoS and was in Chaos Warriors in Fantasy as wel

While it makes sense because the death watch because they are under the inquisition in lore. It sucks that there isn't going to be a stand alone codex for them.

As one with a huge DW collection, I'm good with them being folded in to Agents. I can always run them as a different detachment (which is a very DW sort of thing to do as they're all Space Marines all the time) and maybe now there will be more viable KTs than just DW vets and the one viable team.

I think Deathwatch going away is rough; I hope that they are at least like Agents of the Imperium currently where you can take up to a certain amount of points of their cool squads and models, and then maybe you just play Space Marines with a splash of Deathwatch-unique stuff. I love Agents of the Imperium becoming its own codex! Now that souping imperial units is gone (it was never good but now it’s literally not playable), I hope that Agents of the Imperium brings back the ability to Frankenstein together multi-faction task forces of things like, say, Sororitas+Guard, in a manner at least similar to how it’s done with Berzerkers, Plague Marines, and Rubric Marines in the Chaos Space Marine codex. Even if that doesn’t happen, I look forward to playing lots of Arbites and putting my friend’s orks in prison haha

Whatever gets us closer to Imperial soup! Then hopefully we'll get Chaos soup and also GSC+Tyranids. We need this, GW!

I think this will actually be good for imperial agents and death watch, it will actually make them interesting to look at now as a viable force. There could be some really interesting rules. I think it will be awesome to have death watch, inquisition agents, and all other manner of imperial troops teaming up

I think I say this more about GW than anything else I say about them but GW have no fucking clue what they’re doing. Deathwatch was one of the coolest “chapters” out there because of their lore and now after all these years GW are just like “fuck it, sling em in with them because we can’t be arsed to do anything with them” 100% Deathwatch should’ve been used for 10th it would’ve made perfect sense but again nope… GW are fucking clueless

I actually like this idea, provided Deathwatch still gets access to most of the space marine units & kill teams. Will have to wait and see. Definite boost for an agents army, will finally get transports, tanks and heavy support options.

I'm sure this is a bummer for the Deathwatch players (all 5 of them), but I'm excited by the idea that I might get to take Terminators in a Sororitas army.

Folding the DW into the Agents of the Imperium wouldn't be that bad to me, and I'm a Deathwatch player (my custom chapter uses their rules). It would probably be nice for us to get more fun uses of Agents/Inquisition units. Some units that I'd really love to see from GW for the Watch if we were to get some new stuff... - Primaris Veterans (give DW the ability to form squads with all the options from the tacticus and older veteran range), Gravis vets (imagine a hv.intercessor with the option to take assault bolters and melee options). Would also like some units from other factions/older units that disappeared from the Inquisition example - Inquisitorial StormTroopers (Kasrkin/Scions, would make up for the watch not getting scouts). More versions of Inquisitors (power/artificer armored versions, like lord inquisitors should).

I honestly hope Daemons dont get rolled into the god aligned legion armies, I play TSons and I can already see GW telling us "heres 1 new model and bunch of chaos daemons that already exist. Now dont ask for another range refresh for another 3+ editions." Plus it wouldn't help our balance problems in the meta or internally

I’m actually really excited for this and I think it is a great idea for the Deathwatch to be included as part of Agents of the Imperium. GW needs to push HARD on the AotI going forward.

Don't worry Valrak, your voice is never the best... But the deathwatch will come out with a new Titus model in my dreams 😢

Gareth Southgate’s England is not worth loosing your voice over! Thanks as always Valrak

I just finished a 2k army of death watch……..

when the death watch came out they were allied/ upgrade to your marines . as they should be individual kill teams supporting other imperial forces I like the idea of them being inquisitorial agents of imperium.

Space Marines have a bazillion detachments I can already play my Deathwatch as. I’m not concerned not having a codex of our own. If they pull it right, an Ordo Xenos detachment with inquisitors, requisitioned astra militarum and deathwatch would be much more interesting than a few more space marine detachments.

I kind of like the idea. You could make a mixed space marine astra militarum army with some assassins sprinkled in.

As someone who is starting out and dialed in immediately on Agents and creating lore to include all of my factions in the fold. Agents of the Imperium refresh is exciting.

DW is the army that got me into the hobby. GW did DW dirty when 10th started, because they took away the rules that made kill teams special. Lack of customization, weird unit limitations, loss of battleline, no original unit rules, and high point cost meant a DW army was no longer built around kill teams like they were in 9th. Now they're just another SM list with a Proteus kill team thrown in. If getting mixed in with AoI means I get to keep my dreadnoughts play a kill team focused list again, I'll be happy. If it means I can only take one kill team and a bunch of inquisition troops, it might be time to move on to another hobby.

I think it's a pretty safe bet Be'lakor would be in the CSM book like he was in 7th iirc. Though tbh he would have been in it already. Still though, here's hoping!

Not gonna lie, daemons getting folded into marines is one of the few things that might make me quit the game and just work on painting/collecting. I play daemons because I want to play armies of monsters and we all know that if they get folded into marines, they will be secondary in importance because this game always focuses marine players first and foremost.

I’m liking this. Deathwatch shouldn’t be the same as generic marines any more than the grey knights. I do like the idea of it being rolled in with the inquisition and all that good stuff. I also think the chaos god specific stuff being rolled in together is a great idea. That way you could haven detachment rules for using just daemons or just marines or a mix, and given how chaos can ally it wouldn’t make a huge difference if you wanted to play a mixed daemon army. I’m enjoying 10th and the way these rules are looking it seems they’re allowing things to live up to some potential. A tiny bit of flavour has gone but nothing dramatic. I played since 2nd edition so I’m used to vanilla and generic factions. Excited to see what’s next!

The chaos daemons dex being folded into their respective books is probably the best news I’ve heard for 40K in a while. I LOVE the chaos factions in AoS and having the mixed armies is so good. It’s going to be unfortunate for about a week and then everyone is gonna get over it and realize how much better the other 4 factions feel because of the change.

If they do it right, each of the Ordos armies would have enough detachment abilities to play the chamber militant as the traditional faction army, the chamber militant if led by an Inquisitor directly, and at least one other which leans into the hodge podge nature of the requisition of resources that gets really fun/silly alliance armies. This way, things like Grey Knights, Deathwatch, and Sisters don't lose their individual flair while also creating something new. I'm looking forward to what they'll do with new any new Agent models down the road. New Inquisitors, new Retinues, new cultist/acolytes, and more specialized equipment/vehicles for each of the Ordos would be awesome to collect at the very least.

Grey Knights feel a lot more independant than the Deathwatch. Makes more sense they keep their codex. The vibes I get from Deathwatch is like the Assassinorum. I like the chaos one too since it makes sense with EC coming out. Daemons have the issue of each start collecting being monogod. Poorhammer has shown a lot how building a combat patrol thats all 4 is real hard

i personally would have had DW, GK, SoB and custodies all part of agents of the imperium. cos they all work in that way. thhe chaos thing kinda sounds like the deamonkin idea they originally tried doing with khorne in 7th

I think Be'lakor will be added to regular CSM codex by faq or something, just like Vashtorr. As an alternative it could appear in all codexes of the god's exclusive legions. Sad thing. I wanted my Word Bearers to be able to summon all kinds of demons

I hope you're feeling better tomorrow brotha!

I have 15k Deathwatch models. If DW gets removed I will NEVER buy anything from gw. 3d printer goes brrr . Been part in an agents we will NEVER see a new model!

That's a great Jon Snow impression

To be honest both them and Grey Knights should be folded into special detachments that any imperial army can use They already function more as kill teams than dedicated forces so it makes sense Even if it kinda sucks for those that make full armies of them

Honestly the Deathwatch thing depends fully on what they do. I hope the Detachments have special Soup rules so you can include like 1000 Points Sisters for example in the Detachment themend after them and the same with the gray knights one. And IF Deathwatch is the overall troup choice you could have an imperial agents army in which you can have marines and sisters fighting side by side maybe? I think that could be great and instantly puts the new codex/faction on a whole other level of proxying armies together and comboing stuff

As a loyal death watcher since 7th Ed, I’m hit or miss by this, if deathwatch can still use all their options (and hopefully some new options) this is a good thing especially if they are stronger for it and can be used a elite supplemental force (as was their original design) The bad out look is this could be GW looking to slowly phase them out. Which I don’t like DW is my favorite lore and faction of the imperium. DW and also GK have not specifically received a unique primaris unit(fortis kill teams do not count that it literally buy a DW sprue for a existing unit, I’m talking 100% new and unique model and kit) Which tells me they may be looking to slowly discontinue support for the faction and leave them on life support for a few years before full discounting the rules for the faction. Either way this is a mixed bag. Has potential to be good has potential to be bad. I do wish deathwatch would get bespoke for Killteam 2nd edition cause they could really shine as a faction there.

Deathwatch will be big in 11th edition when the 4th tyrannic war actually happens 😅

An excellent faction with many unique rules and game mechanics. At the moment, this faction is not popular not because of its boringness, but because of the total laziness and irresponsibility of the GW employees. Once again, the developers of GW show their unprofessionalism, not noticing another opportunity to improve the game through a cool unique faction. At the end of the year they will whine and snot that they are experiencing financial losses again.

DW ending up in Agents will probably be fine; People with DW armies that are mostly non-DW exclusive units can use them with most of the regular marine detachments. Those with mostly DW exclusive forces also will be able to include Inquisitorial units easily (depending how the codex is built of course), and depending on how allies work in that codex you might as well just be able to mix your DW-specific and generics marine units willy nilly. I also predict, with no basis and for no reason, that the Ordo Xenos Army box will contain a 5-man deathwatch veteran kit. With some luck it might even be a new kit, but that would be me overdosing on Hopium.

To the agents players: love you, you guys are awesome. I just can’t help feel disappointed if it’s agents though. Aside from me wanting EC codex, I just find agents lacking in a strong identity. Like there inquisitors, and also assassins, and also space marines. Like it’s it seems like a bunch of individual characters + models from armies that already exist. Still ,again to the agents players, praying for you guys it’s good.

Personally I'm looking forward to Agents. I can see each Ordos Combat Patrol containing similar units alongside their dedicated militant arm. For example: Inquisitor (possibly named) Inquisitorial Henchmen Imperial Infantry unit (navy/arbites etc) Ordos Militant (sisters/Grey Knights/Deathwatch) In squads of 5-10 I miss the old Daemon/Witchhunters codex and would love a return to those kind of books.

i'm for this change - that being said im not a huge space marine fan nowadays and i was a huge fan of the Witch Hunters and Daemon Hunters books back in the day.

As long Deathwatch is not fully removed, I'm fine with it. Deathwatch is also in Space Marine 2 so I don't see them fully remove them.

The only plot line is Abaddon's push to Terra. Everything else is marketing to sell models.

It's about time that Deathwatch went back to being an add-on to another codex!

I just really hope we'll be able to ally deathwatch into marines likes current agents. i would love to get a small force

Belakor will be in the standard chaos codex. Technically going forward the black legion codex

I've wanted a proper Agents codex for years. Slightly annoyed that I sold off my Deathwatch less than a year before it finally comes out and includes them, though.

I hope for a Deathwatch Killteam, a bespoken one, not the compention one.

Shame Valrak's not about for this one but it was nice of Johnny Vegas to step in.

Is the Deathwatch Codex going away or is it being upgraded to the Agents of the Imperium and having related allies added. This feels more like Custodes becoming Talons of the Emperor with the Sisters of Silence than the Deathwatch not being a thing. Will have to see how squeezed the Deathwatch themsleves would be if it came to it.

My only concern with the daemons break up is how they’ll play with Thousand Sons given our army would need a full rework to make them viable in our codex. We don’t need an influx of units that don’t generate cabal points. We need something else to make it worth it aside from random lone operatives like the changeling. Here’s hoping we can take horrors in squads of 5 with the book, or there’s something new we can field as a low cost filler because that’s the only thing we use tzangors for

I am Agents should be an ally for other Imperium units that may gain small buffs or bonuses. I would love my Deathwatch Veterans (underrated unit) to get buffs from the Dark Angels and be next to Deathwing Termies lol.

Honestly I never thought DW should have been a stand alone subfaction. They always should have been part of an inquisition faction.

I think them rolling DW in with Agents is a good idea IF they do it right. GW rolling a faction into another due to lack of investment will always suck, they had plenty of time to expand the range and lore but didn't. I can very easily see it working out well but knowing GW all we can do is pray. For the Daemon changes: this is whats best for them, they just don't work on their own. Having to balance daemon datasheets in both CSM, Daemons, and their respective legion is just impossible. Having each god wrapped up in their own codex is what we need for them to flourish thematically instead of 4 half ranges bloated with characters try to work together.

Death who? Serious question, I can’t understand what Valrak is saying.

I’ve joined a campaign and those rules and events I actually like more than just regular match play

I'm okay with this seeing as I just bought deathwatch items. I think this is great if we can be veteran level units.

I'm just tired, all they've done this edition is take away choice. Deathwatch was shafted at the start of the edition with our veterans losing their special and proper combi weapons as well as locking up their special issue ammunition to stratagems (which is kinda in a better place now but it still feels bad compared to last edition where is was meh but every veteran bolter could do it) Loving how they played last edition, 10th has been one slap in the face after another. If it's folded in I'll probably just stop collecting as 10th already gave me a shitty detachment for White Scars. I loved the game and started collecting in early 9th with dethwatch as my army seeing this happen to them is just disheartening. All the best to those sticking around after the fact but I think GW is just telling me my time with the mainline 40k is up and that I will have to either play kill team or 9th edition to feel like the game is fluffy and flavorful. I'm rambling... but it's cause I loved 40k tabletop so much, but now that 10th has been nothing but miserable for any army I enjoy playing I'm kinda just worn out and beaten down. (And yes I know 10th is meant to be simplified, but I like fluff and complexity which 9th had as well as stupid op bullshit which was fun to see when playing with friends. 10th went overboard for me, they took it from a greasy diner burger which wasn't great but it left me satisfied, and turned it into a boring meat patty on a bun, no salt, no cheese, no sauce, just bland boring and exhausting.)

Valracks new lord and saviour ‘Papa burgle’ can help him with his voice. He just needs to bend the knee.

I really dislike what they've done with DW since 7-8th edition. Once they took away Special Issue Ammunition on All Bolt-type weapons for DW and made it a thing you had to spend Command Points on 😔 it has been down hill. All we wanted was to continue to make mixed unit squads, be able to add Primaris units into Deathwatch squads etc and allow Primaris Marines into the Corvus BlackStar 🤷🏾‍♂️

I'm withholding judgement on the Deathwatch until I see the rules. But since I have about 6000 points of them I'm a bit apprehensive. Also wouldn't be happy about the Daemons Codex disappearing. Just starting a Chaos Knights army with demon allies. I really don't want to buy 4 Codices to run a few units of allies.... Ugh. Wish they'd minimize the fluff and just make 3 big Codices: Imperial, Xenos ,Chaos. Probably like $100 each....

Daemons getting added to the God-specific legions just makes so much sense. Adding Bloodcrushers to World Eaters so their cavalry characters can have units to lead would be excellent