NOD’s artillery really helps sell their whole thing about being rag tag militant zealots despite the fact they’re super well funded and have access to incredibly advanced technology. they have a nice little zone in the middle of like, GLA and the GDI
The only difference is that GLA fits with Nod perfectly as a destabilising factor for Nod to come and "save" people from. Sadly not in the same universe.
My head canon for why nod artillery is OP in Tiberium Sun is that it has radar guided munitions but by the time the Firestorm crisis rolls around they can't make them anymore so have to make do with ordinary HE shells.
RIP my sanity, and my desk, from my frustrations dealing with these things in the GDI Campaign! I'll just use Orcas to deal with that artillery... It fired, well they're already airborne so-(artillery shell *STILL HITS AND DESTROYS* one Orca Fighter in mid-air) (-1000 Desk HP x5) *WELL F🐬K ME THEN!!!*
@@louievelayo4100vega's temple would destroy the sanity of every child back then. Although a fast moving amphibious apc (moving in a straight line without bumping) cannot be hit by them, same like the recon bike
"Spectre online. Glorious destruction!" Nod's artillery unit in Kane's Wrath was fun to use, but a nightmare to deal with. the ai could be pretty sneaky with them.
The V-2 used in Red Alert is more closely reminiscent of the Soviet FROG-7 launcher. Renegade used a model that looked like a Scud launcher but launched like the FROG-7.
I was under the impression that Nod's lasers were a combination of a charging particle system that fired laser beams. Most evident when observing the Obelisk of Light in Renegade, both internally and externally when it is firing.
That makes sense with the red-glowing pipes (which might be pipes carrying ionized particles); the laser emitting a LIPC (laser induced plasma channel) to make the particle beam overcome atmospheric blooming.
The difficulty is, a charged particle beam is very different from a laser as current physics understands the terms. A charged particle beam is made up of subatomic particles ( Usually electrons, as in the old cathode ray tubes and their electron "guns"), while a laser is coherent light waves stimulated and focussed by various means. While a "guide channel" for a laser in atmosphere could well be charged particles, perhaps in a plasma state, having the two seems wasteful; with a higher energy output, a laser could punch through air and deliver thermal and electric energy onto a target, just as a plasma weapon or particle gun could, although attenuation or loss of energy is likely in both cases ( Slightly less in a nuetral.particle beam, though) . The way it appears in the game is more like a real- world laser to my eye, anyway.
@@ReconOne123456789 I always assumed it was a massive dye laser and that’s what was running through the pipes, this new info will make it easier to build irl
love your videos man. The tiberium series had such a huge impact on my childhood. I remember picking up the first cnc in a walmart in 1996-7. Too bad well never know what happens after CNCTW+KW.
@@fietehermans9903 I guess we have to wait until the next installement then or someone makes a mod that have similiar missions to C&C 4 in C&C 3 I mean C&C 4 took away everytihng that C&C stands fo. I mean C&C is base building resourse harvesting and no unit cap. C&C 4 removed both the base building and resource harvesting and had what a 50 unit cap and the diffrent unit cost diffrent units. that isent C&C that is Warcraft
@@Groza_Dallocort It was supposed to be a free multiplayer only spin-off, before management decided it would be part of the cannon series, because EA was in financial trouble at the time (see also Dragon Age 2 and Dead Space 3). That's why the new gameplay feels so unbalanced: it was supposed to be a F2P game, probably with microtransactions. Also explains why they didn't have time to include the Scrin, and the story feels so disjointed
@Vsm426 even worse when they mass rocket troopers at the edge of the base to down the orca bombers stuck in force fire. Nope never did that or had my brother smack me for it, GDI scum that he was
So a little fun fact about the G6 Rhino: it has a cousin named the "Al-Fao" which was made by the original designer Gerald Bull. Bull was known to assist "rogue states" so long as he was paid enough and the Al-Fao was part of his development for the Iraqi Army under Sadam Hussein. So with Bull's track record of designing weapons for anyone for the right price, I'd say its entirely feasible in the Tiberium universe that Nod's variant of the G6 artillery could have also been commissioned from Bull as well.
Spectre is very fun, even as black hand. Bane towards enemies' forces, and also allies as I've lost countless heroic flame tanks from a stray shell(s). Especially when steel talon's AI going for behemoth spam, it's fun to do arty duel with them.
Yeah, that's the drawback of indirect fire... You'll never know if what you hit is your intended target or friendly fire until you're informed on it in the last minute...
7:37 - You know, Jet, this could be an idea for a future video - the alternate timelines of the C&C universe, i.e. Soviet victory in RA1/2/YR/3, Imperial victory in RA3, as well Nod victory in Tib Dawn and Tib Sun. This would involve a lot of speculation and would be a lot more like fan fiction than a real analysis, but it could be really interesting, if properly done.
Almost forgot that Jethild would include Artillery as a list of topics he would cover. 👍 Now how about do a video on Infantry, their small arms and body armor, Temple of NOD and the GDI space capable vehicles such the GDSS Philadelphia in how it was built and the famed Kodiak and its exclusive secrets behind it.
about space ships, i've gathered the few stuffs i could have found - i'd worked some time ago on a C&C-themed mod for another game the mod didn't seen the light of the day because Blender hurts my brain, but i can share what i could have gathered from different wiki, and ingame screenshots of different space crafts seen from C&C 1 to C&C 3
Could you tell me more about it? Jethild says he will do a video on it on his last GDI Air Force topic. Anyway, these videos that he done for the C&C lore are a refresher update to the original in game manual.
Does the Obelisk still need to be powered or can the Beam Cannons also keep it powered like how Tesla Troopers in RA2 could keep a Tesla Coil charged and then supercharged if you had 3 of them.
@@stylesrj Beam Cannons can only amplify the Obelisk's vision and attack range + fire rate... And Beam Cannons can't recharge Obelisks when base has low power... So yeah... Low Power, no dice...
Tiberian Sun's Artillery was a real killer. 2-5 in your base and no ground unit can approach your base. With 975 in price it's a steal as things used to counter them costs more (e.g Orca Bombers or Fighters) It only got nerfed in Firestorm, along with appearance of Juggernaut. XD
They are great in assault roles too, if combined with a protective screen of other units. I like rocket infantry for defense against aerial units, and cyborgs to protect against enemy infantry.
On a side-note, a big gripe I have with EA CnC 3 (and 4...) is that some of the units look too cartoon'ish. The stealthed-mobile artillery in CnC 3 has little scorpion claws? What the heck!? Where is the sense of "future realism" that was in Tiberian Dawn and Tiberian Sun?
Agreed with this. They went from mostly realistic (most units in TibDawn and Red Alert) or near-realistic (Tesla and Chrono things) to futuristic but mostly looking like grounded in a believable reality (Titans, Cyborgs) to more outlandish but still not really cartoony (Red Alert 2 Kraken, Desolators, Chrono Troopers) but went more and more cartoon-stylised. In my opinion noticeably beginning with Yuri's Revenge with Magnetrons, Hulks, UFOs and others, then on to what we got in C&C3 and later RA3. It feels like they went from real fringe and experimental weapons, trying to make them look believable to "People enjoyed those weird units, let's make it even more wacky!"
@@Skalatsosse fully agree, TBH the RA2 + YR level was I think still good. But with RA3 they went waaaay to far. When I started to see the first screenshots and media for RA3 I was so disappointed. Never played it as a result. Looked like the art director was a 3 year old.
and yet of the three games, TW/KW has the most enduring competitive scene. The art direction for 3 could have been a bit more gritty, but it's not terrible. C&C4 though, that is a travesty. All the units looked like they would have made into action figures if the game actually sold at all
The claw bits are stabilisers that fold down when it prepares to attack. They may also act as some light armour for the front so doing the move where they drive backwards may have better survivability when under attack
Not to play devil's advocate but I think Nod *always* had funny-looking/non-practical features in their buildings and units. You have the cyborg reapers who look like your average scorpion-man, the Montauk and the Mobile stealth generator with very bug-like appearences, etc. Also the military buildings of Nod are cartoonish as sh*t, they look like super-villain lairs with their evil dark+red designs, and their barracks (their very basic military building) are all *hands holding the world* (or the earth in Tiberian Sun) lmao. The "temple of Nod" from Tib dawn/sun also resembles an scorpion.
Much as I love the lore series on C&C, I would really enjoy seeing some lore videos on the most popular mods like tiberium essence and or Rise of the Reds.
Sort of an add-on: if a Nod player is allied with a GDI player (Lord knows why), or acquired GDI technology, the player CAN reflect their beams off Hammerhead Gunships. I'd say this is more of an oversight in scripting unit classes, since both the Venom and the Hammerhead were VTOL aircraft that did not need to return to base other than for repairs in-game. Plus, I'm not sure if this has been patched out in later versions, so apologies if my info is out of date. It has been a while since I played C&C3, after all.
Real world note here: Yes, 155mm Self Propelled guns are an older technology than the MLRS vehicles, there's a reason that so many nations maintain both in their arsenal. MLRS and Mobile gun systems have different uses. An MLRS is great for saturation strikes where you want to rapidly hit an area with a large number of explosive projectiles. This can be devastating as an initial barrage to soften up an area for an attack. If timed right, an MLRS barrage can hit right before allied forces arrive to make a push, taking advantage of the chaos and the need for the defenders to take cover. The down sides of MLRS are the slow reload speed, and general lack of precision compared to conventional guns. While an MLRS strike can saturate an area very quickly, it takes far longer to reload every rocket tube as the rockets are larger and heavier. Further, their size means that you can't carry as many of them in the same space as conventional ammunition. This makes them poorly suited to defense, counter battery or sustained bombardment. In contrast a self propelled howitzer can only fire one round at a time, but can do so for far longer. An MLRS might fire 50 rockets in less than 5 seconds, but then take 10 minutes to reload. In contrast, a gun firing once every 5 seconds will fire 50 rounds in just over 4 minutes, but can keep firing for an extended period. A single gun with a rate of fire of 12 rounds per minute firing for 10 minutes non stop will fire 120 shots while a 50 tube MLRS that takes 5 minutes to reload would only fire 100 rockets in that time with a large pause between them. If you want to keep enemies pinned for long periods of time, having a battery of multiple guns will do that far better than an MLRS unit. Further, the heavy howitzers have the accuracy to provide accurate "counter-battery" fire. This is the term for when you use your artillery to shoot at enemy artillery. Howitzers are commonly used for artillery duels in part due to this. In summation, different types of artillery serve different roles. The MLRS did not make the self propelled gun obsolete IRL. Rather, each system, be it mortar, gun, MLRS, cruise missile, or ballistic missile has different strengths and weaknesses. An army needs to factor in the traits of each weapon for a given role, the cost of manufacture, difficulty of supply, and optimal use cases for each. This is why militaries that can afford to keep systems active in each category. The US alone maintains mortar carriers, light howitzers, medium howitzers, multiple launch rocket systems, and guided missiles. Until the mid '90's, the US operated a 203mm heavy howitzer as well, but this has since been retired.
I mentioned this in a reply to someone else that In hindsight, "outdated" was probably not the right word to use there, as in a real world sense GDI would have used self propelled guns in their arsenal, like the ones I mentioned in the video (as well as others that I did not mention). When I was writing the script I was thinking in terms of what is playable in the game itself, which is that GDI faction only has access to the MLRS. While that makes sense in terms of game balance, it's not exactly realistic. It can sometimes be difficult balancing between what would be realistic versus what is "game logic."
Excellent video as always, I love seeing a new one pop up. Shame that there's just so much you can do with Command & Conquer before there's nothing else. Though I look forward to any video you do beyond it
Gerald Bull, one of the designers of G6 had also designed Al Fao, an enlarged and simplified version of it, for production in Saddam's Iraq. It used 210mm cannon, was able to use chemical rounds, lacked autoloader and advanced fire control, but was also known for an extreme range that was superior to NATO systems of the time(no idea what good it would do without said advanced FCS though, but I guess the requirements for chemical ammo option explains why accuracy wasn't a concern😅). Depending how the fate of arabic federation proposals in 1970's played out in Tiberium Universe, maybe it was in mass production. Moreover, it doesn't have to use said 210mm gun, it could be the same 155mm guns mounted on new available chassis as there is no indication that such iteration of Nod artillery had increased effectiveness. P.S.: it's a pity that First Tiberium War wasn't retconned to be happening later on then it did in original game release so that Generals would be also canonical to Tiberium universe just like RA2.
Oh this is good video, reminding me how hard to counter those damn NOD long range cannons in second Tiberium war, those damn long range cannons were always a no-small threat.
Which is likely why it was removed. For it's flaws tiberium wars at least atempted to have some game balance. (Also kinda necessary for multiplayer). besides while not hyper effective I kinda like the idea of the beam cannon and hw they can "bounce" their beam of venoms rather than having a traditionnal arc. It's probaly one of the most original variant of artillery I've seen in RTS.
@@s.m.2523 Well, GDI keeps the Juggernaut from firestorm. The tables have more or less just turned from TS to TW. One side has effective artillery and not the other. The Juggernaut is not THAT superior but still.
I disagree about beam cannons using lasers and not particle beams, when they combine their beams they do so in such way that is simply impossible for lasers but somewhat plausible for particle beam. Color is irrelevant since the behaviour of beam is different than nods laser weapons, they go pew pew while beam cannons shoot constant uninterrupted beam, also the exponential damage increase of multiple cannons isnt present on other laser units. Best explanation probably is that it is a mix of two and that when avatar takes apart the beam cannon, he can take the laser part but not whole system.
I know you stated you're not a fan of it, but once getting through the mainline games, think you could cover "C&C" 4? it does have some cool elements to go over i think. some fun designs.
I love the artillery units in Tiberian Sun, they are so effective in both base defense and assault roles in multiplayer matches My standard base assault force is a combined-arms unit consisting of artillery, rocket infantry, and cyborgs. Artillery is effective against vehicles, base defenses, and buildings. Rocket infantry protects from aerial attacks and enemy vehicles, while cyborgs are effective against enemy infantry. Send a couple of cycles on a deep suicide-recon into enemy base to reveal targets. Set up artillery within range of first base defense layer. Deploy rocket infantry and cyborgs in a defensive screen, and start taking out key defensive positions and buildings. Slow and methodical destruction, untouchable. Super effective. In base defense, I line walls with them. Soften up assaulting forces before they even get within range of active (laser) defenses. I'm making artillery all day, can never have enough of them.
I have the headcanon that the 'V' in the Soviet rocket launchers would stand for the Volga river, as they would have been developed by a "Volga Rocket Research Bureau" in Stalingrad.
Nod Artillery...Those things in Tiberium Sun are some of the scariest conventional units in Command & Conquer history. I'd say only the Shogun Battleship, Mammoth Tank, and Orca Bomber are more scarier.
the beam cannon being a laser makes more sense too with the ability to chain it off of Venoms, seeing as I don't think mirrors will work on a particle cannon
The self cloaking Spectre artillery is one of my favorite arty units, a cloaking artillery unit that is quick and powerful? It really compliments a guerilla combat style.
as always its a really good lore video. i have a idea for the next one tho. make a lore video of the dinosaurs, ants and all other weird units in all the games
Nod especially in the first game you had to play strategically. You only at times could afford to make tank blitzes or kill the harvester and win a battle of attrition, mostly you had to carefully use each unit to its fullest.
I have to say, while I wasn't sold on the beam canon when I first played the game, Ive comme to appreciate them, particulalry the way they can interact with venoms even multiple venoms for very long range strikes and effectively replacing the traditional arc shot by a mirror bounce. It's defintively one of the most original form of "artillery" unit I've seen in a while. (... The specter is still a lot more fun to use tho, not gonna lie)
6:00 this was/is the best artillery in any CnC. It might not has stealth but its range is just insane and its precision pin point! You dont need to move fast when your bullet is in the air for 5 seconds lol :D ... and the craters only helped to slow down any advance coming its way! The last (in TibWars) isn't too bad either. Its far more mobile and stealth is great too. I guess with marker it can fire farther but it lacks the punch of its daddy
I like how the Mobile Artillery is considered outdated. Last I checked, a 155mm shell is still a 155mm shell. And I still like how, inspite of how advanced NOD is, they still use conventional bullets and shells for weapons and wheels for vehicles, not to mention their guerrilla warfare doctrine. It really helps set them apart from the well funded, wel organized, and well drilled GDI, who fight traditionally in conventional warfare.
In hindsight, "outdated" was probably not the right word to use there, as I think GDI probably did use similar kinds of mobile artillery, including the ones I mention in the video. But in terms of what is playable in the game itself, GDI faction only has access to the MLRS. Sometimes it's difficult to balance between realism and "game logic."
@Jethild Makes sense. But the Mobile Artillery was a product of the Second World War, so it is not up-to-date compared to GDI's MLRS. But balance and "game logic" are hard to find a middle ground with. But, then again, even if something is considered outdated, it can still be effective. Like I said, "a 155mm shell is still a 155mm shell." So the Mobile Artillery may be outdated/old relic from a past war, but it's no less effective on the battlefield.
Your every video is like a proffesional intel from a real military data network Will you make a videos from the mods like the Forgotten or Tiberium Essence and also Shockwave and Rise of the Reds mods for Generals? More fantastic material for you from the most popular mods for this games.
I liked the Beam Cannons, but i ended up never useing them. Cause when you send them to Attack&Move, they would go, fire at the first unit and then just stand where they are. That bug has never been fixed. So when the specter came around. I completly forgot the beam cannon excist. Unless i wanted to upgrade my avatars.
I actually thought that the Artillery unit, especially in C&C1, suited the GDI better, while the MLRS suited the Brotherhood more. The GDI have this heavy, slow but hard-hitting conventional military style, which something like 'artillery' unit fits with, as they're relatively slow but quite long range and hard hitting. Meanwhile, the MLRS was advanced (suiting Nod) and faster, suiting a style to drive somewhere quickly, launch some guided rockets and then get moving, suiting Nod better imo. We can even see this in C&C3 with the slow, ponderous, long-range Juggernaut unit or the GDI, and the stealth tanks basically becoming stealthed MRLS.
😢 i didnt play the first and second tiberium war only the last one, anyways specter is my fav unit along with stealth tank . im thinking of buying the remastered versions.
I could be wrong, but could Tiberium Sun be a good launching point for a C&C movie trilogy? Taking place right in between the first and third Tiberium Wars. The first Tiberium War can be the backstory. I mean, you get to know the characters McNeil, Slavik, Cabal, and Kane as if it were a movie in the game….Or am I just blowing smoke….
Considering Nods backstory of being an offshoot of the Soviet Union, it makes sense, Russia's Military strength in modern times come from their overwhelming artillery power. 1:44 maybe it's the timelines, but I really dislike this map, because it weirds me out how in a way, how little Nod has control over countries in the world stage, there are A LOT, of third world countries that would either be disputed between nod and GDI or be completely part of Nod or GDI, let me give you an example, South East Asia, look at the Philippines, I would assume that a country such as the Philippines, would either be fully NOD, or be disputed which it should, look at the many Communist Insurgents and Muslim Secessionist Movements and Private Armies in the Philippines.
Anyone remember a time when we would have thought using equipment from WW2 would be hilariously dumb in modern warfare? Current Slavic Conflict would like a word with all of us.
14:43 It's what the Prism Tank would do but that's going *A LITTLE TOO FAR!* It's already OP enough as it is... Just leave that shtick to the Prism Tower... 14:55 A direct reference to Red Alert 2, only difference is that the one charging is vehicular... 15:14 It's important to note that if lucky, Beam Cannons can actually reflect their beams from friendly Venoms and onto enemy aircraft...
"Is the particle beam a laser?" Real life military lasers are particle beams. I don't know from where people got the idea that lasers and particle beams are different things. It always bothered these kind of stuff, just like railway guns in fiction works, they are always despicted as laser weapons when the shot proyectiles irl.
NOD"s beam cannon cars are not well against armored vehicles, even with a group of the weapons fires at a single armored target, besides, it is costly ($1000) and almost 0 armored on the ground therefore, it can also be easily destroyed by GDI's orca with a few rockets in the air, the scenario even comes ugly when opponents from GDI side to deploy the Juggernaut or the Behemoths is capable of wiping them out before come closer into a firing range.
