Non-LDS Carthage Researcher Clark Aboud's own theory about Who Killed Joseph Smith? 

A friend of mine told me that during his mission he had a dream and he saw that Joseph was in the jail and was killed by people who were with him.

William Marks recollection of Joseph's words were as follow's ""“Brother Marks, … we are a ruined people.” I asked, how so? He said: “This doctrine of polygamy, or Spiritual-wife system, that HAS BEEN TAUGHT AND PRACTICED AMONG US, will prove our destruction and overthrow. I have been deceived,” said he, “in reference to its practice; it is wrong; it is a curse to mankind, and we shall have to leave the United States soon, unless it can be put down and its practice stopped in the church. Now,’ said he,’ Brother Marks, you have not received this doctrine, and how glad I am. I want you to go into the high council and I will have charges preferred against all who practice this doctrine, and I want you to try them by the laws of the church, and cut them off, if they will not repent and cease the practice of this doctrine.” NOTICE how Joseph said "has been taught and practiced among us" not that he taught or practiced. It is a known fact that it had been practiced among the saints as we have record of Joseph excommunicating people as well as Joseph, Hyrum, Emma, the RS, Elders condemning it. And Joseph isn't going to cut off people who were just following his teachings and example. He talks about being decieved and then about bringing charges against those practicing it. Clearly he had just discovered people he wouldn't have suspected of practicing it. i believe he discovered some of the twelve had taken plural wives.

Justin, I love the way you sit there so peaceful when listening to and so open to other’s theories. Some great thoughts from Clark. Still, slightly different facts, but the same conclusion; John Taylor and Willard Richards did the dastardly deed.

Justin, Clark's thoughts on these issues are worth additional research. Fantastic content!

I love the perspective of Mormonism from an outside observer. We sometimes get so caught up from inside that we fail to see what is really happening. "Not familiar with their history" - totally correct. "Will lose their faith" if they search, - totally correct. "Extremely nominal" in their faith - totally correct. I think Joseph was the type of person that needed to be loved and as a result was far too trusting. I have seen people today like this and they have let wolves into their inner circles. We need links to the paper and petition. If the state of Illinois is worried about the cost of exhumation and analysis then we can crowdfund the cost.

Black powder of the period fired in those guns produced an enormous amount of smoke, inside a building it would only take a few to make it hard to see anything. This is the most intelligent interpretation of the possible scenario other than yours. Seems like you're interested in a few of Clark's ideas. I don't think Joseph voluntarily went out the window either. Thanks to Clark great work both of you!

Thanks for all your work, Clark!

Willard Richards smashing Joseph with his cane was the part that got me! That's how Joseph got his fractured skull. I totally go with this idea. This video is well done and I almost agree with everything Clark presented. One thing I disagree on l don't believe Joseph was a pokogimist, just because he said he was done with it, doesn't mean he was practicing it, he was probably sick of everybody else doing it.

That was an amazing interview! Both of your memories for facts and information in the record just astounds me! While I'm 100% on board with exhuming John Taylor's body to examine the evidence, the LDS church is the richest in the world and I don't believe they'd ever allow that to happen.

This so fascinating. The actions of the people involved after the fact is very telling.

Very interesting theory and I believe he is inspired. There were some holes in it I feel but it is nice to hear an outside perspective of someone who is not biased, and not necessarily "anti mormon" either. I personally believe Joseph was shot at least once inside the room and Hyrum was definitely shot and killed by JT

Really excited to see this work, Justin! Thank you!

Fascinating interview. Thanks for posting this.

I love the well-thought-out and clearly presented theories. Well done. There is undoubtedly much more to the story than is in the Church's official account.

Very kind, very professional interview. You remind me of one of my favorite Biology professors questioning the learning process in his students. Awesome.

Joseph the martyr knew of his coming death, according to Emma. "He was going to find a place and then send for the family, but when he came back (to Nauvoo) i felt the worse i ever did in my life, and from that time I looked for him to be killed, and had felt so bad about it that when he was murdered I was not taken by surprise, and did not feel so bad as i had for months before." When Joseph returned to Emma after knowing he would be killed he told her "i will die before i will be called a coward." I'd say they knew! Has this young man not read Joseph Smith's writings of the authority given by God?

This is a really great addition to all that has been uncovered so far, IMO. I signed the petition and will pass along to my exmorman friends at church who also know about this research. I'm a Christian who moved here 2 yrs ago and have found all the Mormons here seem so great, whether in or out of the church. Some may simply misled. As a 6th generation Swedenborgian Christian, I can relate to the LDS culture and values, though they don't seem to be quite as intense, and the churches leave their members to a lot more freedom to discern for themselves. It's more subtly punitive as well. BTW, Emanuel Swedenborg was as educated and accomplished as Joseph Smith was not. I have read that Joseph, in an attempt to seem so, plagerized Swedenborg and badly so, along with several others, perhaps from his reading and writing lessons in the library? It is said that he owned one book of Swedenborg's prolific 30+ volumes, which Swedenborg wrote in Latin, to preserve the original meaning and also because it was the scientific language of the 1750's era. Keep working on it, guys, because I think that many in the LDS tradition can spiritually, mentally and emotionally benefit from the truth. The truth comes as a relief to me, no matter how horrible it is.

Justin, MORE videos please...🙏🙏🙏. You're investigations are so amazing and well prepared.

Great interview, both Qs and As

Can you do an episode on possible motives for his murder?

Very interesting! I would like to get a reference for the statement that JS tried to destroy the temple garment. Where can I find more information?

In any situation like this the question must be asked: Who benefited most from the death of the Brothers Smith?

where is Clark's paper available?

interesting theory but I don't understand how he can defend Joseph on one hand and call him a liar on the other (publicly reject polygamy and privately practice it, making him a liar and a hypocrite)

"John Taylor shoots a few rounds into the west wall" What would be the point of that?

What section of the doctrine covenants did Phelps takeout that would have prevented Brigham taking charge of the church? 55:29

Did the coroners report show that Hyrum had a broken neck? I don’t remember hearing about that particular detail.

When I die under curious circumstances, I hope Justin will produce the documentary.

I missed the part on how it was that Hyrum got shot under the jaw. JT chokes out Hyrum, he gets shot in the leg, breaks Hyrums neck and he falls, John Taylor starts shooting in the room to plant evidence as to suggest Hyrum got shot by the mob.... So, did John Taylor shoot Hyrum after he broke his neck? Like a revenge thing for shooting him? 'Take this you dirty SOB' Or did he shoot him after he killed Hyrum as a way of trying to show that the mob shot Hyrum?

I really thought your documentaries were awesome. Now having two of you with different ideas but still agree that it was an inside job and the church still lying and covering up. I am so on the edge of walking away. I won't because I have a husband and two kids who believe strongly. My other daughter walked away with her husband. I don't think that digging up John Taylor will happen because there are too many strong ties to the church within the law enforcement. Very scary how much power the church has.

Love this man! Very convincing

WOOOT-WOOOOOT!!!!!!

Maybe I missed it, but is Clark's idea that the shot to Hyrum came while he was fighting against the chokehold? Thanks.

Even if the ball is found in John Taylor’s leg and it is from the pistol, could it not also be explained as friendly fire?

If one self appointed prophet needs to be destroyed for a cult to prosper. Verily it came to pass. Joseph was on the verge of once again destroying his creation.

Any updates on this? Would love to know if the remains get exhumed.

LOL.... I had no clue Clark wasn't LDS.

Wait! Just because he says to Marks I'm done with polygamy doesn't imply he's doing it. It just says he's aware that others are doing it. And my theory is that BY had manipulated JS into letting certain men practice it. So JS got to the point where he was done allowing it. Unless the direct quote says otherwise?

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing.

Great conversation. ❤

How do we sign the petition?

Great interview!

The Mob Boss got whacked by his own hitmen.

Justice for Joesph!

So after the smoke has cleared, the mob goes back upstairs, shoots a dead Hyrum in the leg and then they roll him over and shoot him in the leg again. Makes perfect sense!

I found this very interesting.

I’ve only watched #2 and part of this one. It’s so shocking to me as a lifelong member I can’t hardly bear to listen. You’ve probably said in these podcasts somewhere but I don’t know if I can handle listening to more yet, but why?-why would Elders Taylor and Richards want to kill the prophet? To what end? I mean only Taylor became the president of the church, and Richards never did. Taylor could have died before Brigham did, so he might never have achieved that prominence and power. Wow, I thought my bubble burst 20 years ago, but this just has me feeling quite I’ll if it’s true.

What is the link to his paper?

It sounds like Ai :) I think that if we put all the information from those years into a machine with Ai, we would have an interesting result.

Lewis Gary Hall Mark Taylor Joseph

Garcia Kevin Moore Steven Hall Carol

My love of the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day Saints is not banked on J. S. My love for the church is for Jesus Christ himself and his teachings.

Brown Charles Garcia Jennifer Hall Melissa

Walker Jessica Robinson Linda Martin Patricia

my family has the 22cal pistol and it's cursed an haunted. look at sterling/Samuel maxwell price my grandpa line

Wilson Deborah Jackson Richard Miller Susan

I know who

Judas similitudes …

FAFO who your friends are.

What do you think about what he said about Joseph practicing polygamy and not being a prophet? Just to find that he did practice polygamy would sure shake my trust in him as he and Emma emphatically denied it.

In the docudrama Who Killed Joseph Smith, Justin Griffith seems to gloss over the importance of both the role of the mob and the fact that Joseph Smith had two guns with him at Carthage Jail on the afternoon of the Martyrdom. These items become important when we learn that when the mob climbed the stairs at the jail to get to the second floor where the Smiths were held, Joseph fired 3 shots from his gun and hit 3 mob members. It is important to follow the history. Later that night, many in the mob that stormed the jail met back in the town of Warsaw, Illinois, a river town 18 miles south of Nauvoo. Many met at the Warsaw House Hotel, sometimes called the Fleming Tavern. That night William Voras (spelled multiple ways in various accounts), a mob member who had been shot by Joseph Smith, huddled by the wood stove at the Warsaw House near Ann Graham, the proprietor of the hotel, while she prepared meals for the mob. Voras was keeping warm and coming out of shock from being shot. John Wills and William Gallaher were also shot and all were indicted and ordered to stand trial for the Smith murders. Yet all failed to appear because their wounds would give them up as participants in the murders of the Smiths. So here is where Justin’s movie needs to be questioned: If Joseph Smith was firing at the people shooting at him, why did he only shoot at the mob on the stairs and on the landing, if, as Justin claims, Taylor and Richards were firing at the Smiths? Why didn’t Joseph turn and fire at Taylor and Richards? Smith was a good enough shot to hit 3 people on the stairs where the threat was, so if the threat was in the room why didn’t Joseph shoot at the inside threat? Hyrum was killed at the very beginning of the attack, perhaps with the first shot. The historical account said it was a shot through the door and the bullet hole is there to prove it. Justin’s film shows Taylor or Richards pulling the trigger and killing Hyrum. This makes little sense because at this point Joseph could have fired at the threat inside the room, the threat posed to Hyrum. But Joseph did not shoot at any threat in the room because there was no threat inside the room. Joseph shot where the threat was, which was on the landing and the stairs, where the mob was. Once again we ask, why didn’t the mob, as they met that night at the Warsaw House, blame the Mormon leaders Taylor and Richards for killing the Smiths, and thereby helping to have Taylor and Richards potentially be hung? Instead, it was the mob that took credit for the murders that night, with William Grover specifically saying it was his gun that killed Joseph Smith. Others said they shot at the Smiths as well. Thomas Sharp then concluded that they in the mob “had killed the leading men of the Mormon church.” This was all said the very night of the Martyrdom as the mob ate a late dinner at the Warsaw House. This claim was noted by Eliza Graham, the 18 year old waitress who was serving the mob, as she later testified at the trial and recounted these confessions. These confessions, by Grover and others, were never refuted by those whom they were attributed to, either at the trial or anytime in their lives. Also, why did Sharp, on behalf of the mobs and residents of Warsaw, print in the Warsaw Signal newspaper, about a week after the Martyrdom, that the mob committed the murders and they felt they were forced to take this matter into their own hands? Why didn’t any of five the mob members who stood trial, where, if convicted, they could have been hung, ever finger Taylor and Richards, or even suggest that others were a part of the murders? Why didn’t the five mob members tell the jury and the judge that these five were being tried unjustly, that the real killers were Taylor and Richards, and those two needed to be rounded up, tried and hung? It is interesting that the five who stood trial, and all the other members of the mob, never ever said Taylor and Richards were in on the murders or helped in any way, or conspired, or had killed or helped kill the Smiths. Why not? The mob was certainly not friends with Brigham Young or Taylor or Richards, and we know this because in 1846 the mob, sometimes at gunpoint, drove the Mormons out of Nauvoo. And never once did the Mormon leaders, especially as the mob was forming to drive them out, say something like “Hey, time out, what happened to our agreement? What happened to our alliance?” It was because the Mormons and the mob did not collude or work together to kill the Smiths. That claim was never floated by either side during the conflict or ever. Never. Ever. Not in their lifetimes. Not by anyone involved in the crime. Not by anyone in the area at the time. In my opinion, after years of research on the mob, and after writing the history of Warsaw, Illinois where the mob was from, that Justin’s conclusions are wrong. This, after visiting descendants of the Flemings, and descendants of Eliza Graham, the waitress that testified that William Grover who claimed he killed Joseph Smith, and spent many days in Hancock County researching and gathering information. Indeed, I feel the above questions are not answered in his movie, and in fact, the accounts, claims, facts, testimonies, and plain logic disprove much of his claims. I testify that the traditional narrative told by the church is supported by facts, accounts, logic, and the actual confessions of those that really pulled the trigger. And those that claimed to pull the trigger were in the mob, not Taylor or Richards. Brian Stutzman

I appreciate your guest but I think he needs to do a bit more research into the polygamy question. This whole scenario hinges on that question actually. It is a major part of the reason JS was killed. Once he realizes that JS was not involved in polygamy and Emma was telling the truth, he will also have a different and more accurate perspective of the kind of person JS was. Anyone who believes JS married other men’s wives couldn’t have a good opinion of him unless they were brainwashed to do so from being brought up to think that way. Your guest wasn’t. So everything he studies including the BOMormon would be clouded by the belief that JS was basically an immoral person. This is the problem with the evil of polygamy ever being part of the LDS history. It has kept millions of people from considering the BoM as true. When it is revealed to them that JS was not involved--as DNA already does prove--the truth of his testimony will have the meaning that it should to many who otherwise reject it outright.

Unmitigated nonsense.

How do we sign the petition??

White Edward Williams Patricia Anderson Daniel