The Actual History of Mormonism & The LDS Church 

Well done!

I see a lot more mistakes than that, most of this seems to be off.

​@djeciruam what seems to be off? Is this just because you are LDS, and think this doesn't show The Church in the way that you would prefer? They seem to be citing their sources pretty well in the video.

What is your response to the reality of Paul Gregersen debunking the arrogant Egyptologist opinions against Joseph Smith?

​@@camerongiles7141I was the same way once so instead of taking someone else's word for what they said, I looked for myself, at the source. Always check for yourself.

Look at it is as freedom from the cult. What feels like the end is often the beginning! Received my official letter almost a year ago. Welcome ❤

Congratulations!! Welcome to the part of your life that YOU control ✨️ ❤ have fun! I'm happy for you

What was the straw that broke the camels back with your decision of leaving ? Are you 100% positive you did the right thing ?

​@@atphoenix2020thanks! Definitely a relief of pressure. Generations worth

​@@scottdixon3727I am positive I did the right thing. It wasn't just one thing but getting quality therapy helped me trust myself enough to do what I knew was right for me for years.

Totally with you

As an older 7th generation I am surprised that more older members aren't extremely concerned about the 180° changes and the outright deceit.

All religions are pretty much cults. Mormons are just a bit more so.

I am 63 and resigned my membership a few months ago. Wish I had learned these things years ago…but I’m happy to know now and able to live my life authentically!

Maybe you should have read the scriptures and the voice of God instead of listening to man.

thanks for the kind words

its an uphill battle to counter disinformation isn't it?

Only to a mormon. Anyone with a brain wouldnt be interested in learning anythingabout it. And those who are and have a brian would see right through it. I dont think theres ever been a religion that was more proven to be a pile of horse shit.

Yes, but one of momentyuouous importance.

Probably because Mormons are so well trained not to think critically.

Yes! Thank you!

You are welcome

An evil spirit he had

Islam was started by a false "prophet" who claimed to be visited by an angel and given new revelations, falsely accused the Bible of being "corrupted", wrote a new "holy" book to replace it, taught that polygamy was a good thing, and liked little girls in inappropriate ways. Mormonism was started by a false "prophet" who claimed to be visited by an angel and given new revelations, falsely accused the Bible of being "corrupted", wrote a new "holy" book to replace it, taught that polygamy was a good thing, and liked little girls in inappropriate ways. Things that make you say "Hmm..."

Thank You

thank you so much! that was the goal. Tell the story accurately and let people make informed decisions!

@@MormonDiscussion Thank you for all the work put into this. It does appear to be an attempt at a balanced view. However, it also shows how a truly balanced view is impossible to achieve because every decision to include or exclude certain documents, witness testimony or background context has power to persuade one way or another. Even the positioning on the timeline of certain events, such as the first visitation, at the point where Joseph claimed it happened, rather than at the much later date of the claim, paints a picture of it actually happening at that date but his later recollections possibly being result of him not remembering properly. If I claimed at age 50 that I saw a UFO when I was 10, and someone wrote a biography on my life. I think the most accurate way of portraying this on the timeline, is at age 50 and clearly framed as a claim. The only reason to position it at age 10, would be if I told everyone at that point and it had some impact on those around me when I was 10. However if someone believed that I'd definitely seen that UFO, then it would make sense for them to position it at age 10, as in their mind, it would be a historical fact rather than the claim of an individual.

You're very welcome!

How is it ppl actually convert to it, I find it very strange

Glad you enjoyed it!

Glad you think so!

Thank you

Thank you

thank you so much!

That was the goal. Tell the true history in a straightforward way. Give people the full story and let them make informed decisions.

The kingstons--descendants of jesus himself. Somehow. Obviously not the Christian jesus.

We will get this podcast debunked as we point out your lies and how you are misleading people against the church

I appreciate and enjoy your podcasts thank you so much My Husband my son and I left 2011 and are very happy that we made the decision to leave.

The sad thing isn't that this occurred, it's that all these millions are going to hell.

Joseph Smith sacrifices a Dog to help him find buried treasure: -In the time of their digging for money and not finding it attainable, Joe Smith told them there was a charm on the pots of money, and if some animal was killed and the blood sprinkled around the place, then they could get it. So they killed a dog, and tried this method of obtaining the precious metal; but again money was scarce in those diggings. Still, they dug and dug, but never came to the precious treasure. Alas! how vivid was the expectation when the blood of poor Tray was used to take off the charm, and after all to find their mistake. Emily Coburn, in Emily M. Austin, Mormonism; or, Life Among the Mormons, 1882, pp. 32-33 -Hiel Lewis affirmed that Smith translated the Book of Mormon by means of the same enchanting spirit that directed Smith to make dog sacrifices. Dr. Quinn wrote, "A cousin of Smith's wife Emma reported that Smith 'translated the book of Mormon by means of the same peep stone, and under the same inspiration that directed his enchantments and dog sacrifices; it was all by the same spirit' (H. Lewis 1879)" (Quinn, 1987 edition, p. 144). -Justice Joel King Noble, who tried Smith in an 1830 trial in Colesville, N.Y., related in a letter that when Joe Smith and others were digging "for a Chest of money," they acquired a black dog and offered it as "a sacrafise [blood Sprinkled prayer made at the time (no money obtained) the above Sworn to on trial. . . ." (Letter of Justice Noble, dated March 8, 1842, photographically reproduced in Walters, "Joseph Smith's Bainbridge, N.Y., Court Trials," p. 134).

we all do :(

Five star pentagram inverted on slc Temple or was in two places. Internet exposing truth so they might removed them. Christus statue has split beard!

That seems the most likely perspective... that it was an affair

I hope to do a future presentation going over the theology of the LDS Church

Huge IMHO

Yes I misspoke. Lol no way to fix now

When I was a member it was said she will obey her husband as he obeys Father (God)

Yes. That’s an error. Will attempt to fix

Do you dispute any of the history shown? or just sharing your religious testimony as a way to dismiss what was presented?

I think you are perpetuating a bad argument. The idea that the Francher Baker party was connected to those who committed violence on Joseph Smith has been proven untrue

Who was Joey’s first wife? Emma Hale was his first wife, I thought?

Emma was his first Wife, but not his first Celectial wife. He got sealed to other woman before Emma. Emma was 20.. something I think.

He was already legally married to Emma thru the state before he got “sealed” to those other “wives”! BUT sure he secretly sealed the girls he was having sex with BeFore Emma.

Fanny Algar I believe was first polygamist wife- maybe 16 years old?

I was born into the church. I am in the middle of a faith crisis. But I have come to the conclusion that fear is the reason people believe. We have been taught since childhood that if you leave the church you will be exempt from blessings and that you will never be truly happy. We have also been taught that not marrying within the temple will not allow you to be in the highest level of heaven. Not to mention the terrifying idea that you will never be able to see your family after you die.

@@Just-MACCHEESE thank you for the truthful response. I am a practicing Catholic and I know some Catholics who believe for similar reasons that you mentioned … I personally believe in Catholicism because it’s the only thing that can provide me all the answers and I believe it to be the truth. I looked at other religions and denominations and Catholicism provides all the puzzle pieces- every teaching just “fits”

@@youtubegirl149 my mother actually left the Catholic Church for Mormonism. I still don’t understand why though.

@@Just-MACCHEESE i noticed a lot of cradle Catholics don’t really know their faith and can’t defend it (I was definitely guilty of this at one time )

May I add, to use the word “quote“ and perhaps "unquote" when you speak in words used by the church to make things magnificent and glorious as a PR stunt in promoting a false narrative. In other words, this will help many that are not as familiar as some of us are in contrasting the church’s position and what the real facts are.

Not a Mormon and never have been, but I've long been interested in the myriad flavours of American religious fruitcakes. I made it about 15 minutes into this video before the blandly neutral descriptions of highly implausible or utterly impossible events became too much for me to tolerate. As for the video's creator trying to be respectful, any attempt to give an objective appraisal of the history of Joseph Smith must *necessarily* be negative; the man was either a delusional fool or a con-man who was capable of glibly telling the most ridiculous lies in pursuit of his selfish ends. The same applies to those who succeeded him in controlling the church, although the list of possible explanations for some of those guys has to also include "highly manipulative psychopath". Maybe the reverential and respectful tone of this video will allow devout LDS believers to take on board a few nibbles of the truth about their religion, but it did nothing positive for me, and I didn't learn anything I didn't already know about Mormonism before I hit pause.

Exactly! He died in a gun fight. He was shooting down the steps leading up to the room they were in.

And what would be your source that he killed any of the attackers? There were between 100-200 in the mob attacking the jail at Carthage. Joseph Smith was killed for religious reasons. The fact that he fired a few shots with a pistol is irrelevant. You may not agree with what he taught, but your argument that he was not a martyr is not valid.

The intent was to be fair and faith encouraging where possible.

My sources is any number of people who have objectively researched and written on the subject. The fact that Smith was armed and two attackers were killed is not in dispute, though perhaps never mentioned in the church narrative or by the missionary tour guides at Carthage Jail. Smith was killed because he practiced polygamy in the most vile and predatory manner. So to the extent polygamy was part of his religious beliefs (even though he lied about it to the day he died, and the church lied about it for over 170 years), OK I will concede that in that narrow sense he was a "martyr." @@KSASTAMPS

again, this is why you use the word “quote and unquote“ in using the church's whitewashed or even created versions of history

is not right with Mormonism? I 100% agree

Thank you for the kind words

@@MormonDiscussion You get enough comments stroking your ego. Do you want phony kindness or honest opinions?

I liked Bill's voice, research, and his presentation of the history. I give it 5 stars!

Bill certainly screwed the pooch on that word

@@MormonDiscussionHey, that’s ok!! I love you guys!!

thank you!

Nahhhh.

Good for you. I know a lot of people that are grateful to be Catholic. I know a lot that are grateful to be Buddhist.

You should Watch The Bible vs Book of Mormon. Stick with the KJV Bible alone

Please. Be honest with yourself… look yourself right in the eyes in the mirror ask yourself if you truly are being honest… then go and look for yourself. Why do the leaders of Mormonism continue to NOT teach the fact that Joseph Smith actually used a "rock in a hat" for his “translation” technique? It’s missionaries are taught to NOT shows these facts to investigators. Your leaders do not teach the children this when teaching about how the Book of Mormon came about… if fact the Mormon leaders teach a complete different story propped up with propaganda pictures of Joseph Smith running his hands along gold plates as he dictates words to a scribe. The church leaders know full well this is not the FULL truth … and it’s NOW clearly admitted in the “gospel topic essays” on their very own web site. I was NEVER in 50 years taught this. In fact .. the one time I heard about this from a Christian pastor was in the 1980s while on my mission in NZ … Dallin H Oaks came to our mission Feb 1988 and told us missionaries that “the Joseph with a rock and hat myth” was a lie from the pit of hell designed to destroy the kingdom of god on earth”. Now these so called “Anti-Mormon Lies” are Documented, verified, proven history that the Leaders have been desperately trying to squash for over 180 years! All they can do now is whitewash the ACTUAL truth as best they can. So so sad… yet so revealing. Whitewashing and Not telling the full truth is the literal definition of deception… hello that is called “lying”. The Mormon leaders continue to not teach the FACT joseph smith married 38 plus wives including several teenagers as young as 14, sister combinations, mother daughter combinations, and even women still married to other living men (polyandry) Its missionaries stear far away from these facts, they don’t teach these facts to their investigators, the leaders don’t teach the children the FULL truth when teaching about Joseph Smith. Again - In fact it’s a complete different story propped up with propaganda pictures of Joseph Smith NEVER with more then one wife … They never teach the true stories of Joseph sending men off to missions and then marrying their wives while they are gone. No true stories of Joseph sending letters (like the “happiness letter”) to young teenage girls telling them their family’s will be exalted in heaven if they will merry him - but be destroyed if they don’t. The church leaders know full well they do not teach the FULL truth to their missionaries, or to their investigators, or to their children…. It’s all documented, verified and proven facts. Since 2014 (after being sued and threat of lawsuits). They quietly admit (although still extremely whitewashed) they admit these facts right on their own web site under “gospel topic essays”. Yet in public they STILL teach alternative 1/2 truth (feel good) whitewashed stories of Mormonism … Again… Not telling the full truth is the literal definition of deception… hello that is called “lying”. Even right now this very minute... The false Mormon prophets STILL "steer clear" and attempt to downplay the actual way joseph used a rock in a hat or the FACT he was a polyandry-polygamist. They do not create and distribute pictures, nor do they teach or testify to EVERYONE that Joseph Smith used a rock in a hat to produce the Book of Mormon, or teach how wonderful ALL his wives were. Even though most of his wives have hand written journals that explain about their lives as joseph smith’s wife. The wives (except Emma) are all dismissed into the abyss of LDS Mormonism as if they never existed. In fact LDS Mormonisms pictures and art and stories depict a completely different narrative that is not telling the FULL truth. So innocent people investigating and innocent children are led to believe a completely different narrative ... the propaganda manipulation and deception of Mormonism is truly astonishing and heartbreaking at the same time. The Mormon leaders truly are documented, verified and proven deceivers. Before the internet, the common claim about these subjects were "this is anti-Mormon literature made up by evil men to destroy the Mormon Church" Now - right on their very own web page under "gospel topic essays" the previously claimed "anti-Mormon literature" is now admitted to be ACTUALLY TRUE ... although still extremely whitewashed in attempt to excuse away the FACT the Mormon leaders had been lying about and hiding this information (and still do to a high extent) from the their members and the world. Even now the Mormon leaders don't teach this ... and MANY other issues ... to their children in Sunday school, their missionaries still leave this information out when teaching about joseph. They are taught to tell half truths in order to convince people .. by the way ...did I mention? … telling half the truth ... or NOT telling the whole truth is called LYING ... your Mormon leaders are LITERALLY documented and verifiably proven liars ... there is no excuse for this. the truth is just that ... THE TRUTH. And the truth is the Mormon leaders are liars. Those are just two examples of documented, proven and verified whitewashing, cover ups, deceptions, and outright lies by the Mormon leaders. There are literally hundreds of "truth Issues" that prove the Mormon leaders are liars and deceivers. If you'd like more examples.. please just ask .. we would love to share. Such as the Book of Abraham… In the gospel topic essays- the leaders of Mormonism literally explain clearly “the papyrus used by Joseph have nothing to do with Abraham and in fact date over 2000 years after Abraham even lived”. Again - not taught to missionaries, investigators, or children. The actual truth is this. Honesty and Integrity are far far more precious than Documented, verified, proven and NOW admitted Mormon lies … not only designed to make you feel special, entitled and important… but designed to rob you from your time, and energy and money… all to support a quasi Christian corporation led by deceiving men. Mormonism teaches and indoctrinates its members to attempt to excuse away the absolutely inexcusable lies and manipulation. I pray the wonderful people of Mormonism wake up to these facts. It truly is So so sad … yet so so revealing. May Our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ open the eyes and ears of these wonderful Mormon people to HIS Truth Light and love. In his name Jesus Christ Amen.

The first item you list has nothing to do with the last one.

Yep I messed up

Common sense tells everyone that they were lying about seeing anything and then made uncomfortable with their lies and decided to alter those lies afterward with some plausible deniability. dog sacrifices-seeing stones- treasure digs - these led to Joseph’s conning people with magical plates. It’s just logical thinking to assume once a con???ž.5

Check with the Reorganized Church of JC of LDS. They have a lot of saved records that the original church would have probably destroyed

Thomas Ford, former Governor of Illinois, reflected upon his impression of the witnesses. “…I have been informed by men who were once in the confidence of the prophet, that he privately gave a different account of the matter… He set them to continual prayer, and other spiritual exercises…and at last, when he could delay them no longer, he assembled them in a room, and produced a box, which he said contained the precious treasure. The lid was opened; the witnesses peeped into it, but making no discovery, for the box was empty…” The prophet promptly chastised their lack of faith, commanding them to their knees to beg forgiveness and increased faith. “The disciples dropped to their knees and began to pray in the fervency of their spirit, supplicating God for more than two hours with fanatical earnestness; at the end of which time, looking again into the box, they were now persuaded that they saw the plates.” [33] If true, this is a damning account. If untrue, why didn’t the witnesses ever contradict the idea that they had only seen the gold plates with spiritual eyes? archive.org/details/ahistoryillinoi00shiegoog#page/n256

They won't fit, I hope you know that. That much gold would be over 220lbs something all would remember, and something which can't be handled that way. And you can't write the book into that small amount of surface area, even with other metals, there are just too many words. And for me personally I can't get over how god/angels know American English but only knew it so, so badly. They can't spell or punctuate. And in addition to the spelling and punctuation issues there are many, many anachronisms, and there is 18th century KJV in there. I don't disparage Mormons for reaching to god (Natural Moral Law) however the BOM doesn't hold up well. btw the story makes the golden plates of no value, as they were never read, and didn't survive, heck even the box they were in (concrete= anachronism) didn't survive.

@@whatsup3270 But the tablets were *obviously* holy, Moronic gold; everyone knows the physical properties of that stuff is nothing at all like the mundane, worldly gold we all know. As with every brand of religious nonsense, the "Because God..." non-explanation is the only possible one.

So true. They are the best deceivers right?

it helped a little

Egyptologists* as in it is common consensus, amongst almost all of them

​@@jackallen5424This revelation/explanation from Joseph Smith was never supposed to match up with the translation from that of the anti-Mormon Egyptologists.

picking an anomaly person with a view unaccepted by everyone in the field when that person has a significant bias is not how critical thinking works.

also is Paul an Egyptologist or a Mormon who has dabbled in Egyptology?

​@@MormonDiscussionBias? You're bias. Critical thinking? The LDS are taught to think critically.

Can you sense that a Jehovah's witness and scientologist might have the same defensive response. Please do look up the data and then also see how the faiths defenders will acknowledge the data but then convince you of a mental gymnastic way to resolve it.

Superb response, BILL!

Why don’t you attack the messenger because you can’t defend the facts vs the church’s sugarcoated version

Please. Be honest with yourself… look yourself right in the eyes in the mirror ask yourself if you truly are being honest… then go and look for yourself. Why do the leaders of Mormonism continue to NOT teach the fact that Joseph Smith actually used a "rock in a hat" for his “translation” technique? It’s missionaries are taught to NOT shows these facts to investigators. Your leaders do not teach the children this when teaching about how the Book of Mormon came about… if fact the Mormon leaders teach a complete different story propped up with propaganda pictures of Joseph Smith running his hands along gold plates as he dictates words to a scribe. The church leaders know full well this is not the FULL truth … and it’s NOW clearly admitted in the “gospel topic essays” on their very own web site. I was NEVER in 50 years taught this. In fact .. the one time I heard about this from a Christian pastor was in the 1980s while on my mission in NZ … Dallin H Oaks came to our mission Feb 1988 and told us missionaries that “the Joseph with a rock and hat myth” was a lie from the pit of hell designed to destroy the kingdom of god on earth”. Now these so called “Anti-Mormon Lies” are Documented, verified, proven history that the Leaders have been desperately trying to squash for over 180 years! All they can do now is whitewash the ACTUAL truth as best they can. So so sad… yet so revealing. Whitewashing and Not telling the full truth is the literal definition of deception… hello that is called “lying”. The Mormon leaders continue to not teach the FACT joseph smith married 38 plus wives including several teenagers as young as 14, sister combinations, mother daughter combinations, and even women still married to other living men (polyandry) Its missionaries stear far away from these facts, they don’t teach these facts to their investigators, the leaders don’t teach the children the FULL truth when teaching about Joseph Smith. Again - In fact it’s a complete different story propped up with propaganda pictures of Joseph Smith NEVER with more then one wife … They never teach the true stories of Joseph sending men off to missions and then marrying their wives while they are gone. No true stories of Joseph sending letters (like the “happiness letter”) to young teenage girls telling them their family’s will be exalted in heaven if they will merry him - but be destroyed if they don’t. The church leaders know full well they do not teach the FULL truth to their missionaries, or to their investigators, or to their children…. It’s all documented, verified and proven facts. Since 2014 (after being sued and threat of lawsuits). They quietly admit (although still extremely whitewashed) they admit these facts right on their own web site under “gospel topic essays”. Yet in public they STILL teach alternative 1/2 truth (feel good) whitewashed stories of Mormonism … Again… Not telling the full truth is the literal definition of deception… hello that is called “lying”. Even right now this very minute... The false Mormon prophets STILL "steer clear" and attempt to downplay the actual way joseph used a rock in a hat or the FACT he was a polyandry-polygamist. They do not create and distribute pictures, nor do they teach or testify to EVERYONE that Joseph Smith used a rock in a hat to produce the Book of Mormon, or teach how wonderful ALL his wives were. Even though most of his wives have hand written journals that explain about their lives as joseph smith’s wife. The wives (except Emma) are all dismissed into the abyss of LDS Mormonism as if they never existed. In fact LDS Mormonisms pictures and art and stories depict a completely different narrative that is not telling the FULL truth. So innocent people investigating and innocent children are led to believe a completely different narrative ... the propaganda manipulation and deception of Mormonism is truly astonishing and heartbreaking at the same time. The Mormon leaders truly are documented, verified and proven deceivers. Before the internet, the common claim about these subjects were "this is anti-Mormon literature made up by evil men to destroy the Mormon Church" Now - right on their very own web page under "gospel topic essays" the previously claimed "anti-Mormon literature" is now admitted to be ACTUALLY TRUE ... although still extremely whitewashed in attempt to excuse away the FACT the Mormon leaders had been lying about and hiding this information (and still do to a high extent) from the their members and the world. Even now the Mormon leaders don't teach this ... and MANY other issues ... to their children in Sunday school, their missionaries still leave this information out when teaching about joseph. They are taught to tell half truths in order to convince people .. by the way ...did I mention? … telling half the truth ... or NOT telling the whole truth is called LYING ... your Mormon leaders are LITERALLY documented and verifiably proven liars ... there is no excuse for this. the truth is just that ... THE TRUTH. And the truth is the Mormon leaders are liars. Those are just two examples of documented, proven and verified whitewashing, cover ups, deceptions, and outright lies by the Mormon leaders. There are literally hundreds of "truth Issues" that prove the Mormon leaders are liars and deceivers. If you'd like more examples.. please just ask .. we would love to share. Such as the Book of Abraham… In the gospel topic essays- the leaders of Mormonism literally explain clearly “the papyrus used by Joseph have nothing to do with Abraham and in fact date over 2000 years after Abraham even lived”. Again - not taught to missionaries, investigators, or children. The actual truth is this. Honesty and Integrity are far far more precious than Documented, verified, proven and NOW admitted Mormon lies … not only designed to make you feel special, entitled and important… but designed to rob you from your time, and energy and money… all to support a quasi Christian corporation led by deceiving men. Mormonism teaches and indoctrinates its members to attempt to excuse away the absolutely inexcusable lies and manipulation. I pray the wonderful people of Mormonism wake up to these facts. It truly is So so sad … yet so so revealing. May Our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ open the eyes and ears of these wonderful Mormon people to HIS Truth Light and love. In his name Jesus Christ Amen.

Does anyone really believe that god will answer you????

Book of Mormon: No facts about reality Science textbook from high school: all facts about reality

which historical data points from the presentation do you dispute?

Jesus was a Jew, you may want to look up Middle Eastern, Middle Eastern colors and compare them to the Jewish people, but even if he was, who cares, he’s our savior

Please. Be honest with yourself… look yourself right in the eyes in the mirror ask yourself if you truly are being honest… then go and look for yourself. Why do the leaders of Mormonism continue to NOT teach the fact that Joseph Smith actually used a "rock in a hat" for his “translation” technique? It’s missionaries are taught to NOT shows these facts to investigators. Your leaders do not teach the children this when teaching about how the Book of Mormon came about… if fact the Mormon leaders teach a complete different story propped up with propaganda pictures of Joseph Smith running his hands along gold plates as he dictates words to a scribe. The church leaders know full well this is not the FULL truth … and it’s NOW clearly admitted in the “gospel topic essays” on their very own web site. I was NEVER in 50 years taught this. In fact .. the one time I heard about this from a Christian pastor was in the 1980s while on my mission in NZ … Dallin H Oaks came to our mission Feb 1988 and told us missionaries that “the Joseph with a rock and hat myth” was a lie from the pit of hell designed to destroy the kingdom of god on earth”. Now these so called “Anti-Mormon Lies” are Documented, verified, proven history that the Leaders have been desperately trying to squash for over 180 years! All they can do now is whitewash the ACTUAL truth as best they can. So so sad… yet so revealing. Whitewashing and Not telling the full truth is the literal definition of deception… hello that is called “lying”. The Mormon leaders continue to not teach the FACT joseph smith married 38 plus wives including several teenagers as young as 14, sister combinations, mother daughter combinations, and even women still married to other living men (polyandry) Its missionaries stear far away from these facts, they don’t teach these facts to their investigators, the leaders don’t teach the children the FULL truth when teaching about Joseph Smith. Again - In fact it’s a complete different story propped up with propaganda pictures of Joseph Smith NEVER with more then one wife … They never teach the true stories of Joseph sending men off to missions and then marrying their wives while they are gone. No true stories of Joseph sending letters (like the “happiness letter”) to young teenage girls telling them their family’s will be exalted in heaven if they will merry him - but be destroyed if they don’t. The church leaders know full well they do not teach the FULL truth to their missionaries, or to their investigators, or to their children…. It’s all documented, verified and proven facts. Since 2014 (after being sued and threat of lawsuits). They quietly admit (although still extremely whitewashed) they admit these facts right on their own web site under “gospel topic essays”. Yet in public they STILL teach alternative 1/2 truth (feel good) whitewashed stories of Mormonism … Again… Not telling the full truth is the literal definition of deception… hello that is called “lying”. Even right now this very minute... The false Mormon prophets STILL "steer clear" and attempt to downplay the actual way joseph used a rock in a hat or the FACT he was a polyandry-polygamist. They do not create and distribute pictures, nor do they teach or testify to EVERYONE that Joseph Smith used a rock in a hat to produce the Book of Mormon, or teach how wonderful ALL his wives were. Even though most of his wives have hand written journals that explain about their lives as joseph smith’s wife. The wives (except Emma) are all dismissed into the abyss of LDS Mormonism as if they never existed. In fact LDS Mormonisms pictures and art and stories depict a completely different narrative that is not telling the FULL truth. So innocent people investigating and innocent children are led to believe a completely different narrative ... the propaganda manipulation and deception of Mormonism is truly astonishing and heartbreaking at the same time. The Mormon leaders truly are documented, verified and proven deceivers. Before the internet, the common claim about these subjects were "this is anti-Mormon literature made up by evil men to destroy the Mormon Church" Now - right on their very own web page under "gospel topic essays" the previously claimed "anti-Mormon literature" is now admitted to be ACTUALLY TRUE ... although still extremely whitewashed in attempt to excuse away the FACT the Mormon leaders had been lying about and hiding this information (and still do to a high extent) from the their members and the world. Even now the Mormon leaders don't teach this ... and MANY other issues ... to their children in Sunday school, their missionaries still leave this information out when teaching about joseph. They are taught to tell half truths in order to convince people .. by the way ...did I mention? … telling half the truth ... or NOT telling the whole truth is called LYING ... your Mormon leaders are LITERALLY documented and verifiably proven liars ... there is no excuse for this. the truth is just that ... THE TRUTH. And the truth is the Mormon leaders are liars. Those are just two examples of documented, proven and verified whitewashing, cover ups, deceptions, and outright lies by the Mormon leaders. There are literally hundreds of "truth Issues" that prove the Mormon leaders are liars and deceivers. If you'd like more examples.. please just ask .. we would love to share. Such as the Book of Abraham… In the gospel topic essays- the leaders of Mormonism literally explain clearly “the papyrus used by Joseph have nothing to do with Abraham and in fact date over 2000 years after Abraham even lived”. Again - not taught to missionaries, investigators, or children. The actual truth is this. Honesty and Integrity are far far more precious than Documented, verified, proven and NOW admitted Mormon lies … not only designed to make you feel special, entitled and important… but designed to rob you from your time, and energy and money… all to support a quasi Christian corporation led by deceiving men. Mormonism teaches and indoctrinates its members to attempt to excuse away the absolutely inexcusable lies and manipulation. I pray the wonderful people of Mormonism wake up to these facts. It truly is So so sad … yet so so revealing. May Our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ open the eyes and ears of these wonderful Mormon people to HIS Truth Light and love. In his name Jesus Christ Amen.

sources for several of the issues - mormondiscussions.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/MormonPrimer7.pdf. And my two cents, is this is a serious rabbit hole that will require you to do research and to look into issues that concern you.

Please say more

@@MormonDiscussion Ok. The droning voice was soporific.

Excellent presentation

Please. Be honest with yourself… look yourself right in the eyes in the mirror ask yourself if you truly are being honest… then go and look for yourself. Why do the leaders of Mormonism continue to NOT teach the fact that Joseph Smith actually used a "rock in a hat" for his “translation” technique? It’s missionaries are taught to NOT shows these facts to investigators. Your leaders do not teach the children this when teaching about how the Book of Mormon came about… if fact the Mormon leaders teach a complete different story propped up with propaganda pictures of Joseph Smith running his hands along gold plates as he dictates words to a scribe. The church leaders know full well this is not the FULL truth … and it’s NOW clearly admitted in the “gospel topic essays” on their very own web site. I was NEVER in 50 years taught this. In fact .. the one time I heard about this from a Christian pastor was in the 1980s while on my mission in NZ … Dallin H Oaks came to our mission Feb 1988 and told us missionaries that “the Joseph with a rock and hat myth” was a lie from the pit of hell designed to destroy the kingdom of god on earth”. Now these so called “Anti-Mormon Lies” are Documented, verified, proven history that the Leaders have been desperately trying to squash for over 180 years! All they can do now is whitewash the ACTUAL truth as best they can. So so sad… yet so revealing. Whitewashing and Not telling the full truth is the literal definition of deception… hello that is called “lying”. The Mormon leaders continue to not teach the FACT joseph smith married 38 plus wives including several teenagers as young as 14, sister combinations, mother daughter combinations, and even women still married to other living men (polyandry) Its missionaries stear far away from these facts, they don’t teach these facts to their investigators, the leaders don’t teach the children the FULL truth when teaching about Joseph Smith. Again - In fact it’s a complete different story propped up with propaganda pictures of Joseph Smith NEVER with more then one wife … They never teach the true stories of Joseph sending men off to missions and then marrying their wives while they are gone. No true stories of Joseph sending letters (like the “happiness letter”) to young teenage girls telling them their family’s will be exalted in heaven if they will merry him - but be destroyed if they don’t. The church leaders know full well they do not teach the FULL truth to their missionaries, or to their investigators, or to their children…. It’s all documented, verified and proven facts. Since 2014 (after being sued and threat of lawsuits). They quietly admit (although still extremely whitewashed) they admit these facts right on their own web site under “gospel topic essays”. Yet in public they STILL teach alternative 1/2 truth (feel good) whitewashed stories of Mormonism … Again… Not telling the full truth is the literal definition of deception… hello that is called “lying”. Even right now this very minute... The false Mormon prophets STILL "steer clear" and attempt to downplay the actual way joseph used a rock in a hat or the FACT he was a polyandry-polygamist. They do not create and distribute pictures, nor do they teach or testify to EVERYONE that Joseph Smith used a rock in a hat to produce the Book of Mormon, or teach how wonderful ALL his wives were. Even though most of his wives have hand written journals that explain about their lives as joseph smith’s wife. The wives (except Emma) are all dismissed into the abyss of LDS Mormonism as if they never existed. In fact LDS Mormonisms pictures and art and stories depict a completely different narrative that is not telling the FULL truth. So innocent people investigating and innocent children are led to believe a completely different narrative ... the propaganda manipulation and deception of Mormonism is truly astonishing and heartbreaking at the same time. The Mormon leaders truly are documented, verified and proven deceivers. Before the internet, the common claim about these subjects were "this is anti-Mormon literature made up by evil men to destroy the Mormon Church" Now - right on their very own web page under "gospel topic essays" the previously claimed "anti-Mormon literature" is now admitted to be ACTUALLY TRUE ... although still extremely whitewashed in attempt to excuse away the FACT the Mormon leaders had been lying about and hiding this information (and still do to a high extent) from the their members and the world. Even now the Mormon leaders don't teach this ... and MANY other issues ... to their children in Sunday school, their missionaries still leave this information out when teaching about joseph. They are taught to tell half truths in order to convince people .. by the way ...did I mention? … telling half the truth ... or NOT telling the whole truth is called LYING ... your Mormon leaders are LITERALLY documented and verifiably proven liars ... there is no excuse for this. the truth is just that ... THE TRUTH. And the truth is the Mormon leaders are liars. Those are just two examples of documented, proven and verified whitewashing, cover ups, deceptions, and outright lies by the Mormon leaders. There are literally hundreds of "truth Issues" that prove the Mormon leaders are liars and deceivers. If you'd like more examples.. please just ask .. we would love to share. Such as the Book of Abraham… In the gospel topic essays- the leaders of Mormonism literally explain clearly “the papyrus used by Joseph have nothing to do with Abraham and in fact date over 2000 years after Abraham even lived”. Again - not taught to missionaries, investigators, or children. The actual truth is this. Honesty and Integrity are far far more precious than Documented, verified, proven and NOW admitted Mormon lies … not only designed to make you feel special, entitled and important… but designed to rob you from your time, and energy and money… all to support a quasi Christian corporation led by deceiving men. Mormonism teaches and indoctrinates its members to attempt to excuse away the absolutely inexcusable lies and manipulation. I pray the wonderful people of Mormonism wake up to these facts. It truly is So so sad … yet so so revealing. May Our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ open the eyes and ears of these wonderful Mormon people to HIS Truth Light and love. In his name Jesus Christ Amen.

at what point does the issues tip the scale and would you give the same benefit of the doubt to Scientology claims or that of the Jehovah's Witnesses?

What has been been disproved? Please be specific

Which stuff hasn’t been disproved? If only “most”. Even “some” seems to be a problem. 🤔

@@MormonDiscussion What more do you need to know? Some random internet person states that God or some angel told him that _most_ of this stuff has been disproved when he asked about it in a prayer, so *obviously* you're wrong about _everything_ . And that puts you back in your box - which you're only in because you want to deny the Prophet so be able to sin. Everything the LDS church says about the history of the LDS church is true because the LDS church says it is true. Circular reasoning is a wonder to behold.

Please. Be honest with yourself… look yourself right in the eyes in the mirror ask yourself if you truly are being honest… then go and look for yourself. Why do the leaders of Mormonism continue to NOT teach the fact that Joseph Smith actually used a "rock in a hat" for his “translation” technique? It’s missionaries are taught to NOT shows these facts to investigators. Your leaders do not teach the children this when teaching about how the Book of Mormon came about… if fact the Mormon leaders teach a complete different story propped up with propaganda pictures of Joseph Smith running his hands along gold plates as he dictates words to a scribe. The church leaders know full well this is not the FULL truth … and it’s NOW clearly admitted in the “gospel topic essays” on their very own web site. I was NEVER in 50 years taught this. In fact .. the one time I heard about this from a Christian pastor was in the 1980s while on my mission in NZ … Dallin H Oaks came to our mission Feb 1988 and told us missionaries that “the Joseph with a rock and hat myth” was a lie from the pit of hell designed to destroy the kingdom of god on earth”. Now these so called “Anti-Mormon Lies” are Documented, verified, proven history that the Leaders have been desperately trying to squash for over 180 years! All they can do now is whitewash the ACTUAL truth as best they can. So so sad… yet so revealing. Whitewashing and Not telling the full truth is the literal definition of deception… hello that is called “lying”. The Mormon leaders continue to not teach the FACT joseph smith married 38 plus wives including several teenagers as young as 14, sister combinations, mother daughter combinations, and even women still married to other living men (polyandry) Its missionaries stear far away from these facts, they don’t teach these facts to their investigators, the leaders don’t teach the children the FULL truth when teaching about Joseph Smith. Again - In fact it’s a complete different story propped up with propaganda pictures of Joseph Smith NEVER with more then one wife … They never teach the true stories of Joseph sending men off to missions and then marrying their wives while they are gone. No true stories of Joseph sending letters (like the “happiness letter”) to young teenage girls telling them their family’s will be exalted in heaven if they will merry him - but be destroyed if they don’t. The church leaders know full well they do not teach the FULL truth to their missionaries, or to their investigators, or to their children…. It’s all documented, verified and proven facts. Since 2014 (after being sued and threat of lawsuits). They quietly admit (although still extremely whitewashed) they admit these facts right on their own web site under “gospel topic essays”. Yet in public they STILL teach alternative 1/2 truth (feel good) whitewashed stories of Mormonism … Again… Not telling the full truth is the literal definition of deception… hello that is called “lying”. Even right now this very minute... The false Mormon prophets STILL "steer clear" and attempt to downplay the actual way joseph used a rock in a hat or the FACT he was a polyandry-polygamist. They do not create and distribute pictures, nor do they teach or testify to EVERYONE that Joseph Smith used a rock in a hat to produce the Book of Mormon, or teach how wonderful ALL his wives were. Even though most of his wives have hand written journals that explain about their lives as joseph smith’s wife. The wives (except Emma) are all dismissed into the abyss of LDS Mormonism as if they never existed. In fact LDS Mormonisms pictures and art and stories depict a completely different narrative that is not telling the FULL truth. So innocent people investigating and innocent children are led to believe a completely different narrative ... the propaganda manipulation and deception of Mormonism is truly astonishing and heartbreaking at the same time. The Mormon leaders truly are documented, verified and proven deceivers. Before the internet, the common claim about these subjects were "this is anti-Mormon literature made up by evil men to destroy the Mormon Church" Now - right on their very own web page under "gospel topic essays" the previously claimed "anti-Mormon literature" is now admitted to be ACTUALLY TRUE ... although still extremely whitewashed in attempt to excuse away the FACT the Mormon leaders had been lying about and hiding this information (and still do to a high extent) from the their members and the world. Even now the Mormon leaders don't teach this ... and MANY other issues ... to their children in Sunday school, their missionaries still leave this information out when teaching about joseph. They are taught to tell half truths in order to convince people .. by the way ...did I mention? … telling half the truth ... or NOT telling the whole truth is called LYING ... your Mormon leaders are LITERALLY documented and verifiably proven liars ... there is no excuse for this. the truth is just that ... THE TRUTH. And the truth is the Mormon leaders are liars. Those are just two examples of documented, proven and verified whitewashing, cover ups, deceptions, and outright lies by the Mormon leaders. There are literally hundreds of "truth Issues" that prove the Mormon leaders are liars and deceivers. If you'd like more examples.. please just ask .. we would love to share. Such as the Book of Abraham… In the gospel topic essays- the leaders of Mormonism literally explain clearly “the papyrus used by Joseph have nothing to do with Abraham and in fact date over 2000 years after Abraham even lived”. Again - not taught to missionaries, investigators, or children. The actual truth is this. Honesty and Integrity are far far more precious than Documented, verified, proven and NOW admitted Mormon lies … not only designed to make you feel special, entitled and important… but designed to rob you from your time, and energy and money… all to support a quasi Christian corporation led by deceiving men. Mormonism teaches and indoctrinates its members to attempt to excuse away the absolutely inexcusable lies and manipulation. I pray the wonderful people of Mormonism wake up to these facts. It truly is So so sad … yet so so revealing. May Our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ open the eyes and ears of these wonderful Mormon people to HIS Truth Light and love. In his name Jesus Christ Amen.

You prayed and asked for the truth. But before you asked for the truth you found it? If you found it before you asked for it, why did you pray???