Norman Finkelstein tells us why he entertains debates on platforms set up to have a confrontational argument over the Israel Palestine conflict. Subscribe to our new podcast now, or you're a silly goose: linktr.ee/pubcast
Lol he got his ass beat by an internet warrior half his age with a girls name. Norm is fraud, and the worst neighbor anyone could ever have Cope harder and maybe reality will change for you.
With all due respect, Dignity and Piers Morgan are not words that go together.. He's been straight out exploiting the conflict in Gaza by staging human c**k fights to boost his own social media presence.
@@MADDcartmanyou mean borelli has been talking shit every debate and getting his handed, that’s called a career? If he wasn’t a secular liberal Judeo-Christian zionist, he doesn’t get a platform to humiliate himself.
"I know what happened before October 7th. I know what happened to the battered woman for 20 years, because I was the next-door neighbour. I heard the screams, I heard the banging, I saw how physically battered she was. So, when I heard that she killed her husband and she stabbed him a 100 times, and all of the tabloids had as their headlines 'Monster woman stabbed husband a 100 times,' I know what proceeded those 100 stabbings" This man is beautiful. He's shedding much-needed light on the depth of understanding and empathy required to grasp the complexities of such conflict, including the long-standing suffering of Palestinians, which span decades and predate October 7th. I'm so grateful that you had him on, thank you.
Lol he got his ass beat by an internet warrior half his age with a girls name. Norm is fraud, and the worst neighbor anyone could ever have. He’s got major mommy and daddy issues too Cope harder and maybe reality will change for you.
Agreed. That was an astonishingly apt metaphor. All the news presenters keep asking 'do you condemn this woman' and again and again shy away from, or justify, what SHE endured all those years.
Hilarious little metaphor you have there to justify Islamic extremism. Can I ask ? Were ISIS also a battered wife ? If not, why not ? They were spawned out of the invasion of Iraq so surely they were justified in their rage against the West ?
Lol he got his ass beat by an internet warrior half his age with a girls name. Norm is fraud, and the worst neighbor anyone could ever have. He’s got major mommy and daddy issues too Cope harder and maybe reality will change for you.
@@erminlegler7812looked it up, less than ideal, sub optimal, but also may be naunced beyond my understanding, seems like one of those things he should have kept to himself, trying to rehabilitate someone like Irving feels like an exercise in futility
Now I am in Egypt, and hearing Norman taking about his mother taking about the hunger reminds me of how I lost 66 pounds in 6 months because of the hunger and I was living better than most of the people in Gaza I had money. I could buy food and not just live on aid which is a luxury not available for 90% of the people, and I had fled the north after the first month of the war before the starvation kicked in. but nothing is worse than the fear and the hunger. being afraid all the time and hungry all the time eats you both mind and body, I can not believe that my hands are shaking after a month just writing about this.
I send sympathy and sorrow for the trauma you and your countrymen have endured. I hope you can heal and gain a peaceful, ordered life. I pray for this insanity and cruelty to end.
Brother I’m glad you are save I’m glad you are not suffering anymore but you left your brothers and sisters to suffer to fight, if it was me I wouldn’t left my home and left my people to fight it alone I would of stayed helped anyway I can to fight this monster called Israel even if it means my death, but hey everybody for themselves , stay safe
As a Lebanese enduring the hardships of war with the Israeli occupation since birth, encountering Norman seven years ago was a revelation. His depth of understanding mesmerized me. In a world where Israel often receives preferential treatment, Norman stood out as a beacon of conscience. He saw beyond the biased media portrayals, recognizing us for who we truly are, not the distorted image often projected. Thank you, Norman, for your insight and empathy.
Lol he got his ass beat by an internet warrior half his age with a girls name. Norm is fraud, and the worst neighbor anyone could ever have. He’s got major mommy and daddy issues too Cope harder and maybe reality will change for you.
@@abdoubadji3744 He's a liar. or He's senile. He literally quoted a book to the author who told him his interpretation was wrong and he just kept on saying the same thing. He says things that are provably wrong.
I gotta say the last two times I've listened to him I've lost respect: his infantile behaviour in the lex fridman debate and his defence of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
Thank you Norman for your relentless hard work and your personal struggles which you went and still go through for upholding your principles and moral duty. Your parents look to you with pride from wherever they are. Thank you, thank you , thank you, a million times!!
Lol he got his ass beat by an internet warrior half his age with a girls name. Norm is fraud, and the worst neighbor anyone could ever have. He’s got major mommy and daddy issues too Cope harder and maybe reality will change for you.
God bless you Mr norman we all Palestinians love you & thank you for showing the world the truth , humanity owes you & history will have you on the good side forever ✌️🇵🇸
He is an asset only to the M0h4mmedan, brainwashed part of humanity unfortunately. Finkelwank has shown his true relentless KAPO colours MANY many times.
Found this quite hard to watch, I'm a 60-year-old man and the more I strip away the perception of my past assumptions the more frustrated I become. The dilemma is if all that matters about life is happiness, is being happy in your ignorance preferable to being less happy in your knowledge. Norman Finkelstein seeks and speaks the truth, yet it is easier not to listen and be happy, is it better not to see, if what we see kills a bit of us. For some reason it made me consider my past my present and the limitations of my future but it also made me want to shake his hand because it made me realize that being happy in your ignorance is not a legacy I want, I'd rather carry the burden of truth than walk down the hill with a lie.
Beautifully said - another question derived from said: Do I shake the other people around me out of their blissful enviable ignorance? Or do I grant them the luxury not to look truth in the eyes?
Lol he got his ass beat by an internet warrior half his age with a girls name. Norm is fraud, and the worst neighbor anyone could ever have. He’s got major mommy and daddy issues too Cope harder and maybe reality will change for you.
Norman Finklestein is a truly great MAN. He will be remembered as a brilliant light in the darkness of our times. Let's pray of our deliverance from this darkness.
The analogy is genuis in so far as it's rhetorically effective. It doesn't fit though. The woman took revenge after silently enduring violence for twenty years; Palestinian militias, young adrenalin-fueled men, have been carrying out gruesome massacres and terrorist attacks for decades. Has israel commited crimes? Sure. No side in this conflict is innocent. Painting one side as the innocent victim is naive and shows that westerners do not understand that palestine is being used cold-heartedly as a tool for racial pan-Arab politics against perceived 'foreigners' - A lesson in Machiavellianism.
@@zetectic7968 Not at all. It is a Jihad. Jihad means struggle. It's a Jihad for the freedom and liberation of the Palestinian people. They are wrong in thinking a "moralising jihad" makes sense or that a Jihad is automatically a bad thing.
Lol he got his ass beat by an internet warrior half his age with a girls name. Norm is fraud, and the worst neighbor anyone could ever have. He’s got major mommy and daddy issues too Cope harder and maybe reality will change for you.
Sorry to have found you Norman under the circumstances, but thankyou for all your energy, heart and soul on Palestine. You speak so eloquently, intelligently and with great compassion. You are an essential voice that helps subdue rattled nerves, in this world of such little compassion.
Love how he rarely says "Palestinians" and always refers to "The People in Gaza". It should go without saying they are people, but calling them Palestinians make them "other people", and Finkelstein maintains the humanity so powerfully.
Lol he got his ass beat by an internet warrior half his age with a girls name. Norm is fraud, and the worst neighbor anyone could ever have. He’s got major mommy and daddy issues too Cope harder and maybe reality will change for you.
If anyone wants to see a real superman in today’s day and age its this man, the amount of respect I have for this man is immeasurable. You are a very very brave person sir to stand for what’s right without any fear is the kind of courage that a very very extremely few people possess.
Lol he got his ass beat by an internet warrior half his age with a girls name. Norm is fraud, and the worst neighbor anyone could ever have. He’s got major mommy and daddy issues too Cope harder and maybe reality will change for you.
And yet we're constantly told the power Jews have over Western media is an 'antisemitic trope'. The current narrative has to have it's roots somewhere and for a reason and if it's not the aforementioned, I for the life of me cannot figure out what else it could be.
I think the media is very split on this matter. Maybe different in the US but in Western Europe it seems to be quite the opposite. Media are focusing very heavily on the atrocities committed by Israel (of which there are many) and conveniently forget to mention all of the atrocities committed by Hamas.
It’s always been so. When the US Civil Rights movement started, when the Vietnam Anti war movement started, when the anti-apartheid movement was going, the mainstream media and the US government treated them like fringe lunatics. Now history vindicates them all and you’d be hard pressed to find anyone to support the previous status quo. May the Palestinian rights movement follow the same path 🤞✌️🇺🇸
Please try to watch the full debate Finkelstein is referencing here, it is 5 hours, but throughout that entire debate, Finkelstein constantly does those very things. Instead of showing his work, he just arrogantly announces he is correct or he's smart or someone else says he is correct. "The judge is an AMERICAN, an AMERICAN, and she agrees with me!" He said that in the debate. Later on, that very same judge, comes out and says that people in media (including Finkelstein) have misinterpreted her ruling on plausibility. Look it up, many people will point out in the comments that it counters Finkel's exact claim during the debate with Benny Morris and Destiny. All Finkelstein did during this debate were either these baseless (no work shown) appeals to authority, bragging about how smart he was, and unnecessarily insulting and using elitist arrogant statements to silence Destiny, essentially constantly using his status to excuse not having to engage with Destiny, outright ignoring Destiny's points, and then going back to trying to character assassinate his other opponent Benny Morris, instead of just having an honest good faith conversation about the topic person to person, he just tries to make him look bad for past statements. While it is Finkel's statements who historically have been proven wrong, like that with the judge. A good teacher shows their work. Finkelstein refuses to take the time to prove his points, and instead just disparages his opponents with insults instead of engaging on the topic. He talks more about how many books he has read, than the content of those actual books. He'll talk about how much he's read the ICJ report, yet get things clearly wrong in the debate when Destiny reads directly from the report, challenges them to engage with the report directly, and then Finkel ignores and diverts again. Not engaging with the people you are talking to is dehumanization, regardless of the elitist excuse he came up with, which is essentially him justifying that all of us are stupid and don't deserve to be spoken to or have this topic explained to them if they are questioning him at all. He's that teacher we all had that refuses to take any challenges or ever be wrong. Imagine instead of explaining your point of view, in front of a huge audience, just using appeals of authority instead and talking about how much smarter he is and that's why he doesn't need to even engage with any of Destiny's points. He's like that one arrogant person we've all known, that one person who thinks they are smarter than everyone and they are above even talking to you. It's dehumanizing and elitist. it's something only someone who thinks they are inherently better would do. A normal person would defend their points in front of everyone, they would engage with the other side's points, regardless of their education status. A normal person wouldn't just quote rank, expertise, diploma, and appeal to others authority. A normal academic, a normal scholar, a normal person, anyone normal, would just try to engage with the topics one by one and show your work (with sources) to prove your side correct. Finkel is the worst defender of Palestine to ever exist, Palestinians deserve better defenders, not condescending pricks who think anyone who hasn't spent as much time on this topic as them is automatically wrong, and feels he is so smart and better than non-academia people that he can just ignore their points. He thinks he can rest entirely on his laurels, of which he has really none, and just not engage with anything. It's rude to everyone's time, but even worse, it's a tragedy for the Palestinian people. They are dying, they deserve someone who will actually put time into fighting every point, not lazily use his status as an excuse not to.
I don't think people truly comprehend how much vitriol and spite this man has had to endure because he dedicated his life exposing the truth about the inhumane treatment of the Palestinians. He has been ostracised and condemned as a traitor by people within his own community. What a selfless hero.
@@moonants A professor who has dedicated most of his life to covering Gaza being put across the table from a Twitch streamer who's read some articles since October. I would be frankly insulted that this debatebro would even dare open his mouth on a subject he hasn't been alive long enough to even experience.
@@FanaticalTactician That is not how it works. He had no substantive response to Destiny's arguments and resorted to ad-hominem attacks. Even Finkelstein recognises Benny Morris as one of the most eminent historians - and Morris kept agreeing with Destiny's position. History is bias, no matter how much you know. I dont need to be a historian to know that Finkelstein lies when he says "Gaza is the most populated place on God's green earth" - a quick Google search proves how ridiculous that statement is - so how much else does he simply exaggerate? When called out for cherry picking, he resorts to ad-hominem. Dont fall for Finkelstein's emotive rhetoric, he's manipulating you.
@@moonants stop diverting from the issue at hand. Dr. Finklestein IS the leading expert on this issue and no MSM is seeking him out but is willing to put several unqualified and deeply biased pro-Israel representatives on to peddle lies. When thousands of innocent and defenseless men, women, and children are being massacred, it’s vexing to listen to someone constantly dehumanizing Palestinians and holding up Israeli as some paragon of virtue when it has been anything but. Destiny is has delved into this issue for a few months while Dr. Finklestein devoted his adult life to study Gaza and the impacts of the occupation and blockade. Despite participating is several “debates”, Destiny still pushes the idea that Palestinians don’t want peace and that Israel isn’t directly targeting civilians and decimating the entire infrastructure of Gaza. Preposterous!
If only you could even spell his name right '"Finklestein= Finkelstein''. Imagine how accurate Finkelwanks claims would have to be in order for someone with such a weak memory to be impressed.
Norm is an inspiration. He knows it's not about him, or losers like Destiny who don't care about anything but the sport of debating. It's about the people in Palestine, suffering every day. Thank you for this Joe. FREE PALESTINE!
@@troubadour0663 60 jihadi terrorist organizations around the world like hamas boko haram or isis ... lefties are uneducated on the topic of islam warfare and conqest ... arabs lost 3 wars with israel
The way Norman describes the "rushing" in his low hushed voice describes the horror of being in that situation. As if he lived it with them. One of the few scholars on the topic that gets very emotional talking about Gaza. And I would say to Norman you are known not because of misfortune of the Palestinians but you are known because of your humanity and you have educated and inspired many young people to carry on the fight. Your mum would be proud and we are proud of what you are doing Mr Finklestein
Of course the MSM will never allow Norm to talk. As he says, he's the expert on what happened *before* October 7, but we all know that history *began* on October 7.
@@noodleppoodle Oh oh... gonna show my age... it would be "Men Seeking Men" from the "personals" section of the old print "newspapers" people used to read every day.
The domestic abuse analogy is also a good way for people to understand the ICJ provisional ruling. It is, in effect, a restraining order. When a judge issues a restraining order, they aren’t proclaiming someone guilty without a trial; but issuing an order to ensure that more violence isn’t committed before the trial.
Quite refreshing to see someone acknowledging Norman Finkelsteins scholarship and knowledge and rightly pointing out how unqualified those he's been debateing are
Why is keffiyeh white, if all that its good for is for them to wipe their bums with? Wouldnt that be smelly to wipe bum before they wrap their head with rag?
Norman is my idol, as somebody who lived through the genocide in bosnia during the 90's as a 12 year old child the genocide that israel is comiting in palestine follows a blueprint i personaly recognize from my own experience. The retoric is similar. The lies are similar. The propaganda is similar and it makes me loose hope for humanity but norman makes me belive that there is hope for humankind and that there are good people in the world. I truly think he is a person that can honestly say he did his best to make a difference and do something about a great injustice. He should be comended for that and praised. He gives hope that there will be justice for the palestinian people and that there is a chance that things will get better. As i said he is my idol since israel attacked Gaza, i did not know of him before then but he has opened my eyes and given me personaly a greater understanding of the history of the conflict and all the injustices that have been inflicted on the palestinian people by israel with the support and approval of its western allies.
Thanks Norm for your sacrifice❤ Just listened to Rabbi Weiss talking at Fordham uni Bronx NYC, everyone needs to hear his words. Its time to free Palestine for all that want to live in that land in peace, the way it was meant to be.
"It's not about me but about us". Thank you Prof. Finkelstein for showing us what humanity should really look like, what we should be talking about and doing to save and grow our shared humanity.
I admire & respect you Norman for your humanity and your humbleness, and thank you for bringing & informing us on the plight of the Palestinian people and your humanity to all❤. Thank you Norman
Thank you Norman Finkelstein for your voice and for sharing your knowledge. You have helped shaped my understanding of this conflict as I started my learning process about the Middle East a decade ago. I continue to learn from you. Thank you.
My hero since first time I saw him and listened to his opinion about Palestine being in the right side of history and just not bought and sold as many are 🗽
@@zetectic7968 no it was the british imperialism vs arab imperialism now its west imperialism vs arab imperialims you picked a side of your enemy ... good job of being a traitor to the west and our civilization...
@@MikeMW87 I remember when Arab nationalism was predominantly secular in nature. That ended when The CIA helped overthrow the democratically elected government of Iran in 1953.
Oli please don’t ever turn into a James O’Brien. Don’t sell out. The whole Sangita departure has been a revelation how JOB has dealt with it. I didn’t always agree with the man but I respected him and thought he valued journalism principles. I have turned off LBC now. It genuinely feels like an end of a relationship and grief. Politics Joe is few of remaining platforms for sensible discussion.
Agreed. I always thought he was sometimes disingenuous or used his University debating skills on white van guys, working class guys and the like...BUT I'm certain if she'd been sacked due to Conservative pressure he'd be very different. Watching him dance round the Israeli issue has been painful.
Imagine spending your entire life to understand and have a good faith position on one of the most hot button issues in modern history, and someone half your age that got clout online for streaming video games reads wikipedia and then proceeds to passive aggressively insult you over something they are only recently versed in.
@@sfbno6430 You havent watched shit. If you click anywhere in the video of the 5 hour debate you can see Norm factually and historically defending his points. I will refrain from offending you personally, but damn... you must be challenged in so many ways.
@@sfbno6430 the funniest moments is when he tried to quote bennys book and benny sitting across the table kept having to correct him or provide the context that norm would try and level out
Excellent analogy to the beaten woman. I believe your effort to educate people on the facts of the history of the area is extremely important. Your work is invaluable, Mr. Finkelstein.
@@Rekaert If being opposed to the genocide of innocent children counts as "supporting terrorism" then call me an enthusiastic terrorist sympathiser. I'd rather be that than some piece of garbage who places no value on human life, like you.
The first time I had the privilege of hearing about Professor Finkelstein was around 1998 & ever since I thought that people like him are so desperately needed on both the Israeli & Palestinian sides in order to end the violence cycle & reach a solution. Respect Sir ❤
I just discovered Mr Finkelstein a few weeks ago. I can't get enough of his insight into this conflict. It takes a lot of courage for him to come out like this and describe what is going on in Gaza. Be safe Mr Finklestein. Your voice needs to be heard so once and for all the American citizens can properly be informed as to what's going on between Isreal and Palestine.
Yeah, "He" who? I watched as much as I could stand of Norms constant disrespect and refusal to address questions. Norm lost a lot of my respect that day. If he is so knowledgeable on the topic, why constantly dismiss Destinys claims without addressing them? Why turn a serious conversation between 4 adults into a clown show? I still support Palestinians but Destiny was definitely the better debater that day.
Mr Norman, People who seek truth, honesty and knowledge found you when Gaza became top news.Thank you so much for all your work, I am grateful I discovered you in this horrific times.
Notable for being basically the only "new historian" to both shed light on the actions of the Israeli state in the past, and come to the conclusion that it was good and just
@@paulcaikman "good and just" - where do you get that? Morris does present facts, with minimal bias, unlike Finkelstein who is clearly and obviously bias.
