Love the rant Sage!!! I have definitely noticed the pressure that the supplement and meat corporations have on society. I've gone more towards plant based protein within the passed couple years personally and have felt physically and mentally better. But I do still eat seafood, chicken and beef just not as much as I used to. I would personally like to hear more vegan/vegetarian nutritional talks but that's just me. You're a BEAST!!!!!
I am very impressed to see a professional distance runner who is plant based and reading protein-aholic!! I couldn't agree with you more! We get enough protein from plants!! Thank you very much for making this video, and spreading the word! Carb up!!
I do eat a lot of animal protein myself, but this video is still really good to me. I believe, based on my own experience and that of friends, that protein is important. I believe, again based on experience in my life, that .5 grams per pound of body weight is enough. If you are an active person who is breaking down muscle daily, then .7 would be better. You can put on great muscle size at just .8 to 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight even. protein is veerrryyyy overrated, but I do believe it is more important than a lot of vegans and vegetarians like to believe. I am not "hating" on this video or anything, just sharing my own personal experience. Thanks for the videos. They definitely help me think outside the "norm".
it's great to see you are plant based, Sage! I think the most powerful answer to the protein question is you and other plant based people with active lifestyles which proves we don't need that much protein.
Great video Sage! Thanks for sharing! I can attest to a 'vegan' plant based diet as well. Plant based for over 16 years and a competitive ultra runner for 10 years. And injury free for past 11 years. I don't use protein supplements either. Just real food.
Totally agree with all of your points! I'm a life long vegetarian too and while I don't run as much mileage as you do, I've never found myself lacking in protein. I've had some problems with low ferritin levels but, as a woman, I think that that's relatively common and I have several female athlete friends who eat liver and other animal iron sources who are also low in ferritin. Of course, whenever I've mentioned my iron issues, it's always my diet that people query!
Great to hear your real world experience! I feel like we are so often bombarded by facts and statistics and studies but not enough stories of what actually works for individuals
Hit the nail on the head! How ever, I think everyone is different and has different needs, witch you touched on! But really spot on! I do eat meat (mostly chicken) and only really on my run days and when I work I eat vegetarian. It works for me, I feel good and feel strong. The media and government do what they do for sustainability of the country and for money! Thanks for the video, I very much enjoy your work!
Wow, what a great video!! So excited to see you putting out this type of content, people need it, the planet needs it and of course the animals. Clearly we have also been thriving on this vegan diet and our performance has only gotten stronger! We need to get that book, it is on our to read list and it will probably skip to the top after watching this video! Keep it up!!! :)
Great topic, and I wholeheartedly agree on your key points. I used whey protein as a supplement some years back to gain muscle mass while training cross fit, but I felt terrible and stopped after a while. It seemed to me that my mucous membranes thickened and my overall sense of well being was seriously affected. After I stopped using whey protein the side effects slowly disappeared. I even tried to use whey protein again a year later, just to be sure. Same result.
Thank you for a great topic Sage! Great point of view, there are always fanatics of everything but no one have the truth about everything, than has been working for you for a long time and you've turned one of the best runners I know. I eat protein but I admire People who Don't by decition and as you said it is a story of a everybody.
I definitely agree with what you say about hormone levels and soy. I was also raised on tofu and my hormone levels are totally fine. So are my dads and he's been eating soy/tofu his entire life. Power to the plant! 😛
Soy lacks a key amino acid and has one of the lowest BV values of any protein source. Long term estrogenic effects are still TBD, most research at this point are animal models.
You dont have to be an extreme body builder to need 1.6+ g protein per kg of weight. Moderate weight lifing is sufficient as well as a person trying to lose fat while maintaining muscle. Jeff Nippard is a very science based body builder and i recommend seeing the science behind it if you have doubts
Lol "I might be rich enough to buy a house in Boulder by now..." Great video Sage. Plant power FTW! Also please do another video and/or review of Proteinaholic after you finish reading it. It's on my reading list. Thanks again.
I saw this guy who only ate raw fruits and vegetables and was able to run the WS100! For some reason he won't eat nuts or seeds or cooked vegetables and fruit. He goes by the Fruitarian.
Hey Sage, I love your videos and loved this one. It gave me a different look on protein since all I've learned from studying about nutrition is "the higher, the better" I'm about to go into my junior year in high school for cross country and I was wondering if you could do a training talk about what you think is the perfect amount of miles to add on when you're building up your mileage after a short break. I'm trying to get to around the 50-60 mile range. Thanks!
Great rant! I do LCHF, but protein is overrated. The protein the body doesn't need is converted somewhat inefficiently to carbs thru gluconeogenesis so it is an expensive way to get glucose. Protein is also insulinogenic which is another reason to keep it low.
I'm definitely picking up that book. seriously get that question all the time and ive been a vegetarian for three years and haven't felt sluggish or sick.
+Vo2maxProductions I think that protein deficiency comes more from not getting enough calories. It is very difficult to not get enough protein if you get enough "energy" from your food. If you eat 3000 calories, only about 300-400 calories are protein (75g to 100g). This is very easy to get since it is such a low percentage of your total food intake.
I also wish I had $100 for everytime I got the protein question! The last trainer I had told me I needed to supplement with creatine because I was vegetarian and training for a marathon. Apparently eating sufficient plant based protein still wasn't enough and I would loose muscle mass without a creatine supplement or meat. :p
I don't eat a huge amount of Protein but I have made one change over the last 6 months and it seems to help, it is timing of the protein. I, like many others, like chocolate milk. I take mine with 2 shots of espresso. When this is not convenient, my second choice is Gatorade sports protein drink. I try to get the chocolate milk in me 20 min or less after finishing. Do you think timing is important to your recovery/consumption of protein. 95% of my days are Pescatarian.
Hey Sage, I agree that a whole-food plant-based diet is the healthiest way to go. However I was wondering what you might think about amateurs like me who are commuting 3 hours to work every day, putting in a shift and then doing ultra training. Inevitably short-cuts are taken with the diet. Maybe you could make a video sharing some secrets regarding plant-based nutrition when time is an issue? i.e Is it worth topping up in this situation with some dairy or vitamin supplements. Fingers crossed for you at WS100!
I don't consume any protein powders or count the amount of protein I take in but what about having a glass of chocolate soymilk with banana, peanut butter and oatmeal after a hard workout? should I worry about protein then? I was told there was a window where your body absorbs more vitamins and nutrients that are vital for recovery, if you consume like chocolate milk, after a workout? I hope I'm making sense haha -El Negro, José
Training Talk Topic - Your thoughts on Jason Koop's "Training Essentials for Ultrarunning." Specifically chapter 8, with his outlook on periodization being different for most ultras, emphasizing Vo2max intervals in the beginning of the season and working into more specific threshold/ steady state workouts as race day comes closer. He makes good points, but I still feel questionable about early season V02max work.....I've always viewed that as a way to quickly peak. Thanks!
Born and raised Lacto Ovo Vegetarian as well. 35+ years. How sick of that question are you? I have been sick of it for at least 20 years. My wife was convinced i had low Iron as well. When i was giving blood i got my iron Results, and was Incredibly higher than my wife. Everything about diet is over rated. Glad to hear what you had to say, and know i am not alone out there haha
+Vo2maxProductions looking forward to the day you guys have some spots open up for coaching. I love all your videos, and find a lot of inspiration in them. I had to take 2 months off running due to shin splints (went out to hard) increased my mileage to fast. Can't wait to see you run in WS.
What do you think about the developing runner? If somebody went couch to 5k to half marathon to marathon to ultramarathon in 1-5 years, how do you think their dietary needs would change over that time?
Sage, I was, and still am but only once or twice per week, a meat eater. I read a book called "Eat to Live" by Dr. Furman. It very much supports what your saying and has revolutionized my eating habits.
Great advice. Meat-eating is overrated as a way to get daily protein intake. Currently I do eat meat in moderation, but on occasion go months at a time without eating any meat, and I do just fine. My experience with a plant-based diet is that it helps a great deal to reduce inflammation from running and working out in general. Keep posting!
Preach!! A vegan diet is so healthy and people don't realize that! My fitness has gotten 10x better since going vegan, almost a year now. Greatest design I've ever made.
Will there be a huge need of protein when you fist start to train? It seems much muscle-tissue is created the first 2 months compared to an experienced runner who dont build much muscle at all anymore.
Kyle, I totally agree that can happen, we can adapt, for you it came down to the choice, some people will never stick out the transition. Can I ask, how differently do you eat for performance over maintenance?
I think as a very high-mileage runner, if you only ate bread, you would end up hitting pretty high g/kg protein just because you need to eat so much more to fulfill your carb requirements. I only exercise 7 hours per week and burn about 600 calories per hour, so I think protein supplementing makes sense for me
what about calorie intake? If i'm running 45-55 miles a week avg between 645-745 a mile during my runs, plus age (41yrs) + height 5.6-ish, i believe metabolism is burning efficiently, what is my ideal calorie intake...
great video as usual Sage. What are your thoughts on more of the good fat and less of the carbs on your diet? (maybe for those that want to be leaner). (And by the way, the crooked door on the background was distracting though -LOL....) Thanks
I think if you are trying to cut fat and build muscle, you really can't get enough protein through limited caloric intake so I do think it's important to ensure you are getting close to 1g of protein to 1g of desired weight...
As someone who is not a vegan or vegetarian, i completely agree. I do think meat tastes wonderful and eat a high fat diet but i also eat a ton of plants. I used to eat much higher carbs and found it wasnt for me. When i cut a lot of carbs out and stayed higher fat i lost a lot of weight and maintain higher fitness and now i typically just add carbs as needed before/after hard or long cardio/ work out sessions. The typical american eats waaaay too much meat though, and i think that has negative economic, health, and moral effects. As a country people need to probably cut more refined carbs AND fat and eat more plants. I love some meat, eggs, dairy, but i can say ive never once thought i should have packed less spinach and mushrooms in my prepped food haha!
cowlick, esp when near the front of the head is for sure superior in aerodynamics (but only if one tilts their head forward while running)....mane has way too much drag. For heat dissipation it is more of a toss-up though...darker hair (like mine) likely creates "hot pockets"...this is a disadvantage that likely negates the benefit of an aerodynamic frontal cowlick in the first place...
Dark mane here. Aero wise, you're at an absolute disadvantage. Contrary to popular belief, however, i find that heat disipitation is far better with my mane. In 90+ degree weather, i get plenty of guys with short hair or bald with their heads dripping in sweat asking me why i'm not dying. I believe it is because the sweat is absorbed by hair and cools my head/neck which is super beneficial.
Random question pertaining to gear - I'm about to purchase a new pair of shoes and I wanted to hear your thoughts on having two pairs of shoes that you switch between for training. If I go this route, would your recommend getting two pair of the same exact shoe or switching it up with different cushioning/shape/design?
Go sage! I run college xc and track and have gone vegan in the last two months, feeling better than ever as long as i eat enough! Great video. Good luck in western states 100
Hey Sage! I was just wondering if you could maybe make a video about your shoe collection and your go to running shoes if ever you have time :) thank you kevin
Proteinaholic is a fantastic book. Dr Greger rocks. Veggies have protein and most people don't seem to realize that. Oh and Cottage Cheese in pasta!? Ewww!
Don't see the controversy. Think you are right about the protein. An added point, Americans also tend to eat a lot more sugar than blue zone people. Also its good to keep in mind that association does not prove causality.
Correlation doesn't equal causation is the constant refrain of the low carb crowd in their attempts to resist the (ample) evidence offered by vegan doctors and researchers regarding the superiority of whole food, plant-based diets.
I myself am more or less agnostic to vegan slash low carb. But this "controversy" is a good strategy on youtube to get higher view ratings and more subscriptions. But I do advice you to look at the science backing low carb also. In my view it is strong and getting stronger as the research accumulates. The vegan branch in nutrition is kind of old hat. But has its benefits. The thing is that we really lack solid science to being able to say what diet is optimal or most healthy. So the only thing we do know is that we do not know enough. A still another complexity is individuality. I suspect that there might not be one diet that is optimal for every one. There might be roughly two or three groups of people and different optimal diets for each group. Further more. The benefit of an optimal diet versus a non optimal diet might also vary between peoples.
+Arnþór Logi Arnarson My 2 cents: I agree with you, at least in majority but my main concern with low carb diet is that it sounds like plan b for the body, since you need to go through fat adaptation period to reap the benefits. No need to do this with high carb diet. And also old hat term is little bit confusing, because we didn't change anything about how our bodies works in odd twenty years from evolution standpoint so lowcarb is just our way to survive on "anything", or "anything goes" or "another perk of our omnivorism". Now it's just more popular, because who doesn't want to hear about "eating all delicious steaks and bacon diet".
It’s all about what your body is used to. Can’t add or take away anything in an instant. Some protein in needed for the body for muscle, but you can get protein from dairy products (Greek yogurt and cottage cheese) and/or pastas and vegetables (quinoa and avocados). There are so many things that people do not know have protein.
I'm a (rising) senior in high school, and my parents have been extremely worried since I started eating ovo-lacto vegetarian about 6 months ago, I've eaten fish about 7 times to keep them from being worried when I was training hard thru track season. As I start weight lifting and mileage summer training, I'm taking a whey protein supplement to keep them from being worried about my protein intake. Is that a good compromise for someone still living with parents who think meat is God's gift to humanity?
A basic Google search for "athlete runner protein nutrition" will give you a much better guideline than watching a random RU-vid video. You need protein. There's no conspiracy behind the physiological need for protein, especially when training hard.
yeah don't believe everything you see from a google search of key words either though! Of course you need protein. i probably wouldn't recommend whey as an extra supplement source. Have a side of beans and rice instead. I also like almond butter/almond milk etc.
When I first trained my muscles hurt for days, I'd do anything to try to make it better. Nuts, cheese, ham and chicken. I don't think these foods are gonna mess you up if you eat too much of it, so my personal preference is to make sure that I'm at least getting enough protein. Fruit and Nuts are my staple recovery snack(s) - covers some nice nutritional benefits as well. BTW Your body can use Protein as the 3rd source of energy after fat and carbs, and there are some significant studies to show just how much protein is required per hour.
Show me the studies! In short, there as been some controversy on the topic of "protein or Branch Chain Amino Acids as fuel." Sure there is more oxidation during exercise....and Aminos are needed for to fuel certain metabolic processes...but as an actual fuel source? Check out this article: jn.nutrition.org/content/136/1/264S.long
My main point is that I don't think that it's going to do you any harm (as long as they are natural sources), so then if you are going to err on the side of caution, then I'd go for the 'better to have too much' than 'not enough'. I meant studies to show how much protein per hour your body requires during recovery, which you've covered in the video anyhow.
Also worth saying, you are at a MUCH higher level of fitness - your body can recover much quicker. I certainly can't do 2 runs in a day. I would need at least 1 full day and night recovery after a long training session, so until I get better and recover quicker, I'm going to be focusing more on protein while my muscles are fatigued and let me know I need to rest and recover before I can think about the next session.
I have been a meat eater for my whole life However I stopped eating chicken and red meat about six months ago. I still eat fish by the way. I have to say that I fell great. My body fells so much better. I feel that my metabolism runs smoother now..
+V02maxproductions would be great to see a video on your favorite books, and or a list. I have bought most books I've seen from your RU-vid videos and have loved them all. Especially 2 hour marathon book, I'm wondering what else you could recommend as great reads or info.
Sage, does this rant apply to people like me who live in a third world country like me in Mexico? :P hehehe .... Keep up the good work Señor!!! I like your videos :)
that is ideal, yes, as well as some carbs too! for sure to help promote/stimulate recovery as soon as possible. Just the amount I think is usually overestimated (at least in the US).
Yea, definitely carbs too. I prefer to get mine in as soon as possible after a workout, but I know that a lot of people can't stomach something right before a cool down. Seems like a lot of people neglect quick post workout recovery. Recovery as a whole is important, but vastly underrated.
You mentioned people feel tired or weak when they try to switch to a vegan diet. As a meat eater who knows meat doesn't equal protein, I would say this is because people just aren't feeling satiated when they switch. Eating meat is an addiction and when you try to stop an addiction or anything else out of your lifestyle, it's pretty normal to feel tired due to the work and physiological changes the body is going through. Imho.
agree! there is always a transition period....as well as a subjective mental check of "how am I feeling?"....which all plays a role. Good point on the "addiction" as well!
I think that it has more to do with getting enough calories. Eating a high meat diet has more fat, therefore more calories. However, on a good vegan/vegetarian diet, getting enough calories is more difficult compared to a high meat diet (especially if there meat diet contains fast food). I think that the fatigue from the transition would be lessened greatly if the person transitioning would make sure to get enough calories from good carbs like brown rice, quinoa, oats, fruits and veggies. For example, a burger from a fast food chain could be 500 calories where as it would take 3 apples and a 3 bananas to have around 500 calories.
Agreed. I think the "feeling tired" after switching to a plant-based diet comes mainly from a) having to adjust to eating enough calories (which means eating more food than you're used to), b) adapting to changes in your gut bacteria, and c) your body switching over to synthesizing non-essential nutrients by itself, that it is used to getting _pre-formed_ from animal products (these include carnosine, carnitine, taurine, creatine, etc.) Your body will also get more efficient at converting plant-source omega 3's to long-chain omega 3's. This all takes time to adjust.
Hey! From what I’ve seen, people become tired because they don’t know how to eat a healthy vegetarian diet, so they eat lots of bread, cookies pasta, maybe vegetables but do not introduce nuts, beans, lentils, soya etc... which are our vegetable protein sources... We don’t need as much protein as our culture eats nowadays but we still need it. People feel tired because they eat way too low protein. But when our plant based diet is balanced, the energy we feel is way higher than before.
Serious studies suggest nor more than 1.2-1.5 g/kg for professional athletes. Also, the amount needed decreases with the fitness level. A Beginner needs extra protein for buildup an regeneration, whereas a professional just has to maintain his current musclemass, which works quiet efficiently at that point.
Yep...makes us think! I think you are on target..or at least for you. I feel much better when Not eating more than a little meat..better for our system and also kinder to environ.
What about increasing protein for injury recovery and rebuilding weakened core muscles? Im not talking about high doses of it but maybe a vegan protein bar after running until you're feeling some gains in those areas.
again, with a balanced vegan diet (and that means enough calories) I'm sure one can probably get plenty of protein for muscle building/recovery. Not all bars are created equal, but generally if you are eating vegan you're at least not overdosing on protein and you're staying mostly high carb. There are lots of variables that go into muscle imbalances/weakness from running form to genetics to training variable.
Thanks, going on 3 years vegan now and eating 3000 cals/day minimum. Diet consists of mostly pasta rice and beans and fruit. I averaged 10 miles/day until recent lower back pain forces me to cross train on stationary bike. I've been putting in many extra sessions at gym doing core strength work as it is my belief that weak butt and hip muscles are exposing my lower back to lateral forces. I've allowed easy running back into my routine a couple times a week to test progress of strength trainining. This has been going on for about 4 weeks now. Thanks for your videos and responses Sage.
+gukobi Sounds you are pretty active! I run usually 50 miles per week, one or two days off, usually some other sports once per forthnight and hiking in summer. Other than that I pretty much sit on my ass (I try to walk at least some 20 minutes a day, but often fail). I used to walk everywhere in college, but now I got lazier. Kudos for running after work, I couldn't do that, I get up early to put my morning run, before everyone wakes up.
I don't think protein is overrated especially as an older person who is desperately trying to hold on to muscle. I am 59 years old and am naturally skinny and under muscled. I essentially switched to from doing just running to mostly calisthenics training beginning 6 years ago. I also increased my protein intake dare I say from animal products, and my health has gotten so much better. Get sick a lot less often, cured a hernia and my weight has gone from 145-150 to 160-165 (5'-10") and I look way better. So at the end of the day, it all depends on the individual and I think age is a factor too. What works when you are 30 may not be optimum when you are 60. At least that is my experience.
Personally I eat a higher protein diet (160g a day) because I find it more satiating than a high carbohydrate diet and it allows me to maintain a consistent weight all year round. I find when I increase my carbohydrate intake I generally eat more (calories) a day.
it's actually very easy to eat very high carb (plant based) and have a consistent weight (or lose weight). You can actually eat more volume this way and it is fiber that fills one up. People in the weight loss industry have promoted protein because it is satiating...and they obviously want to stay away from highly processed/refined carbs (i.e. refined sugar). Fat is the usually the big issue with weight (and caloric intake). When people eat a regular pizza they see it as being "high carb" (which it is..) but it is also very high fat! Remember, both protein and carbs are only 4kcal/g and fat is 9kcal/g. Go low fat and you can eat a ton!
ajcn.nutrition.org/content/87/5/1558S.long www.health.harvard.edu/blog/how-much-protein-do-you-need-every-day-201506188096 Just from that link: 'Nancy Rodriguez, a registered dietitian and professor of nutritional science at the University of Connecticut in Storrs. “People in general think we all eat too much protein.” ' Those people being yourself, someone who clearly has NOT read actual studies (and instead relies on your clearly gifted running genetics and lifelong n=1 sample size) and is NOT a registered dietitian and/or PhD in nutritional sciences. Rather, someone who's read a conspiracy theory piece of literature.
in 3rd world countries (I come from one) people also don't suffer from "low protein diets", in general, in the whole world, areas with extreme poverty might experience bad nutrition and that might even apply to the US as well as 3rd world countries, regarding the rest I´m not vegan but I agree :) nice videos btw
Autophagy is the process by which older cells break down and the material recycled. Many people are unaware of this and therefore believe they need a lot of dietary protein.
